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Israel takes out top Hamas commander after missiles launched from Gaza


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#181 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:32 PM

An open question to people that disapprove of the Israeli strikes and politics. Lets say Israel just decided to not attack while Hamas was launching rockets. What solution do you have for Israel while they sit and get bombarded? And also which political solution could you force, if you had the power to rule in favor of Palestine.

Serious question. And if you would have israel suddenly 'give up land' how much and please source as to why. Where would they relocate to and who would be in charge of the new Palestinian state. How do you think a large Palestinian state would compare to Israel? Would the militas in the region lay down their arms and finally accept peace?

This is a hypothetical senario in which you make the solution in favor of Palestine. I'm curious to see which results people expect to have and the reasons for some disagreements..


I have no problem with israel defending itself , what i have been pointing out is why the palestinians are driven to attack israel .

Both sides are contributing to a circle of hatred that seems to be never ending , and has consequences for the rest of the world
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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#182 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:36 PM

And what's the answer to that question and solution that you have in mind is my question. Enlighten me on what Israel should be sayig and doing then how Palestine would react accordingly.


WE are sorry for the crimes against humanity we committed against you in the founding of our state , we will remove our presence from our illegal settlements .

And the palestinians should say shalom brother , now we can live in peace

Edited by The Ratiocinator, 18 November 2012 - 01:39 PM.

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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#183 Special Ed

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:57 PM

I'm feeling frisky so I will offer my solution until someone can add to the question I have proposed. Of course mine will be pro Israeli because I feel Israel is not the root of our problem. But that radical Islam is and a cite evidence of their large unability to coexist with others around the world peacefully.

My list of main 'problems':
-radical Islam. Will have you killed simply based on your views. Their notorious persecution of women. Extremely unforgiving and violent behavior which has led to more modern day conflicts, than any other people on earth. I have seen evidence that children are groomed to become radical and hate from an early age. Should be a crime within any religion and is form of child abuse.
-militias. Disregard for civilians as they have no political responsibility on casualties. Obscure groups which are difficult to track and take no official political orders. They are not bound to political agreements or to uphold international laws.

Those first two I have listed are not just Israeli problems but global problems as far as I'm concerned. My country Canada and our allies have been in conflict with these groups for a long time now. And as well other countries and even violence within modern day Islamic nations. They can't even get along with themselves.

My beliefs are that regardless of Israel these groups will always fight and be involved with conflict. If not with other countries then with themselves. They have simply not moved onto a point in which they can live in relative harmony along with many other nations.

Why is that?

Well every nation has been attacked. And attacked someone. Had land change hands and been massacred at some point.

So to me the main solution is to MOVE ON. Radical Islamic militias are stuck in the past. There will always be an excuse to fight. Where other nations are past that. The radical Islamic militias will never move On. They must be removed and everything done to separate the civilian population from them. There should be one more ultimatum for peace and negotiations with Israel. But if one more attack should be conducted against Israel as in the past. Overwelming use of force should be used to remove hostile elements for good.

Obviously after everything has been done to seperate the civilians from the conflict areas. I'm think international temporary 'safe zones' or along those lines. These are my thoughts on the conflict as a casual observer. In no way do I claim to be an expert on this issue and am open to reasonable suggestions.

Cheers.

Edit: I'm just at work and will try to respond to posts when I have time. Above included.

Edited by Special Ed, 18 November 2012 - 02:28 PM.

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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#184 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:06 PM


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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#185 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:37 PM

I'm feeling frisky so I will offer my solution until someone can add to the question I have proposed. Of course mine will be pro Israeli because I feel Israel is not the root of our problem. But that radical Islam is and a cite evidence of their large unability to coexist with others around the world peacefully.

My list of main 'problems':
-radical Islam. Will have you killed simply based on your views or ethnicity. Their notorious persecution of women. Extremely unforgiving and violent behavior which has led to more modern day conflicts, than any other people on earth. I have seen evidence that children are groomed to become radical and dislike others from an early age. Should be a crime within any religion and is form of child abuse.
-militias. Disregard for civilians as they have no political responsibility on casualties. Obscure groups which are difficult to track and take no official political orders. They are not bound to political agreements or to uphold international laws.

Those first two I have listed are not just Israeli problems but global problems as far as I'm concerned. My country Canada and our allies have been in conflict with these groups for a long time now. And as well other countries and even violence within modern day Islamic nations. They can't even get along with themselves.

My beliefs are that regardless of Israel these groups will always fight and be involved with conflict. If not with other countries then with themselves. They have simply not moved onto a point in which they can live in relative harmony along with many other nations.

Why is that?

Well every nation has been attacked. And attacked someone. Had land change hands and been massacred at some point.

So to me the main solution is to MOVE ON. Radical Islamic militias are stuck in the past. There will always be an excuse to fight. Where other nations are past that. The radical Islamic militias will never move On. They must be removed and everything done to separate the civilian population from them. There should be one more ultimatum for peace and negotiations with Israel. But if one more attack should be conducted against Israel as in the past. Overwelming use of force should be used to remove hostile elements for good.

Obviously after everything has been done to seperate the civilians from the conflict areas. I'm think international temporary 'safe zones' or along those lines. These are my thoughts on the conflict as a casual observer. In no way do I claim to be an expert on this issue and am open to reasonable suggestions.

Cheers.

Edit: I'm just at work and will try to respond to posts when I have time. Above included.


Australia's first real interaction with the muslim world was at a place called gallipoli, the british sent us there because they did not trust "the wild colonials" to behave in a civilised way , in the european theatre of the first world war .

We invaded a muslim country ,Turkey , who had never messed with us in any way , once we were there the officer class {aristrocracy} ordered the troops {working class} to charge into machine gun fire , they were mown down in the thousands .

We had our arse's well and truly kicked , and now we celebrate that as we would a victory

Edited by The Ratiocinator, 18 November 2012 - 03:11 PM.

  • 0

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#186 morrissex95

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:48 PM

If you're going to refuse to apologize for comparing Israel to Nazi Germany then I don't need to participate in this discussion with you. I just showed you how Israel's settlements and existence are all completely justified. I also tried to explain to you why the Zionist movement exists and why the Jewish people need it for our survival as a people.

I'm not wasting anymore of my time on this. You're free to side with the cause of Arabs, but you're not free to insult the Jewish people in such a blatant manner. In most Western countries, some of the things you just said could be construed as hate speech. Clearly part of the reason you've spent so much time on here is because your desire to antagonize people.

60 years after the Holocaust, the entire world has spent all their sympathies on the Arabs and have none left for the Jews. Both sides have made mistakes-but one side is directly targeting civilians and the other is targeting terrorists who fire rockets at their civilians. Clearly you're the one blinded by ignorance. You've probably never met a Jew or an Israeli in you're life, but yet you're so quick to write us off as a nation of war mongers and land grabbers.

You claim that you respect Israel's right to defend itself, but yet you've referred to everything Israel has done ever to defend itself as a violation of International Law. The language of International Law has to be severely manipulated most of the time in order for Israel to be in violation of it.
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#187 Tearloch7

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:54 PM

If you're going to refuse to apologize for comparing Israel to Nazi Germany then I don't need to participate in this discussion with you. I just showed you how Israel's settlements and existence are all completely justified. I also tried to explain to you why the Zionist movement exists and why the Jewish people need it for our survival as a people.

I'm not wasting anymore of my time on this. You're free to side with the cause of Arabs, but you're not free to insult the Jewish people in such a blatant manner. In most Western countries, some of the things you just said could be construed as hate speech. Clearly part of the reason you've spent so much time on here is because your desire to antagonize people.

60 years after the Holocaust, the entire world has spent all their sympathies on the Arabs and have none left for the Jews. Both sides have made mistakes-but one side is directly targeting civilians and the other is targeting terrorists who fire rockets at their civilians. Clearly you're the one blinded by ignorance. You've probably never met a Jew or an Israeli in you're life, but yet you're so quick to write us off as a nation of war mongers and land grabbers.

You claim that you respect Israel's right to defend itself, but yet you've referred to everything Israel has done ever to defend itself as a violation of International Law. The language of International Law has to be severely manipulated most of the time in order for Israel to be in violation of it.


Oh woe is me .. oh lack a day .. the poor Israeli's are settling lands that are not theirs in order to establish a buffer? .. now please keep to your word and DO NOT waste anymore of your time trying to defend your position .. thank you in advance ..
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"To Thine Own Self Be True"

 

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#188 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:55 PM

If you're going to refuse to apologize for comparing Israel to Nazi Germany then I don't need to participate in this discussion with you. I just showed you how Israel's settlements and existence are all completely justified. I also tried to explain to you why the Zionist movement exists and why the Jewish people need it for our survival as a people.

I'm not wasting anymore of my time on this. You're free to side with the cause of Arabs, but you're not free to insult the Jewish people in such a blatant manner. In most Western countries, some of the things you just said could be construed as hate speech. Clearly part of the reason you've spent so much time on here is because your desire to antagonize people.

60 years after the Holocaust, the entire world has spent all their sympathies on the Arabs and have none left for the Jews. Both sides have made mistakes-but one side is directly targeting civilians and the other is targeting terrorists who fire rockets at their civilians. Clearly you're the one blinded by ignorance. You've probably never met a Jew or an Israeli in you're life, but yet you're so quick to write us off as a nation of war mongers and land grabbers.

You claim that you respect Israel's right to defend itself, but yet you've referred to everything Israel has done ever to defend itself as a violation of International Law. The language of International Law has to be severely manipulated most of the time in order for Israel to be in violation of it.


Good i was getting tired of your BS .

EDIT

And just so it is clear , i have not insulted the jewish people , one of the few men i really admire in this world and whose songs i post on a regular basis on these boards is a jew , "fat" mike burkett , and my fertility surgeon , shlomi is a friend and a jew .

Edited by The Ratiocinator, 18 November 2012 - 03:03 PM.

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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#189 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 03:28 PM

AS IT HAPPENS: Israel, Hamas trade blows in bloody Gaza conflict
  • From: AFP, AP
  • November 19, 2012 8:40Am








Posted Image
A Palestinian demonstrator throws stones during a protest against Israel's ongoing military operation in the Gaza Strip, in front of the headquarters of the Palestinian security forces in the West Bank city of Jenin Picture: Saif Dahlah Source: AFP

Posted Image
Smoke rises during an explosion from an Israeli forces strike in Gaza City. Israel bombarded the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip with nearly 200 airstrikes early Saturday, the military said, widening a blistering assault on Gaza rocket operations. Picture: Hatem Moussa Source: AP








Recommended Coverage




Posted Image


Waiting for the sky to fall in Tel Aviv

THE only thing on people's minds yesterday morning in Tel Aviv was when the next attack might come.


Posted Image


In Tel Aviv as air raid sirens ring out

SPECIAL REPORT: THE orange streaks raced upwards. Six of them. In volleys of two.


Posted Image


Israeli airstrikes on Gaza Strip


End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.

THE Middle East is once again at flashpoint, as Israel and Hamas trade bloody body blows in Gaza and Tel Aviv.
8.40am: The Israeli Defence Force says it's Iron Dome has intercepted three more rockets fired from Gaza into heavily populated areas of Israel.
7.26am: New Israeli air raids have killed two people in Gaza City, taking the death toll to 25 on the bloodiest day of Israel's bombing campaign, Hamas's health ministry says.
The latest deaths came in the Gaza City neighbourhood of Tal al-Hawa.
"Two Palestinians were killed in an air strike on the Tal al-Hawa neighbourhood," Hamas health ministry spokesman Ashraf al-Qudra said, without adding details.
The latest violence hiked the Palestinian casualty toll to 71 dead and more than 600 injured in almost 100 hours of raids, while three Israelis have been killed and more than 50 injured by rocket fire since Wednesday.

7.01am: About 500 Egyptian activists have have crossed into Gaza to deliver medical supplies and show support for Palestinians facing an Israeli offensive.
Hundred of Palestinians have reportedly been injured in clashes across the West Bank, many of them suffering the effects of tear gas.
Al Jazeera reports a 20-month-old baby was among those affected by the tear gas. Elsewhere about 120 people were injured in protests in Tulkarem, many of them by rubber bullets.
5.45am: AP and Al Jazeera now say 11 members of the Dallo family were killed in an Israeli airstrike, including an 80-year-old woman and four children.
Reuters also count 11 deaths in the attack on a top militant that destroyed a three-storey home.


Posted Image Hugh Naylor @HughNaylor

Met man with right eye blinded by shrapnel in attack, will make necklace out of piece of metal dislodged from it “Just to remember,” he said
19 Nov 12

It is the biggest single loss of life in the conflict that began last week.
Overall, at least 30 people died in Gaza from Israeli strikes on Sunday.
As of a few hours ago the IDF said 55 missiles had been fired into Israel from Gaza on Sunday, of which 36 were intercepted by Iron Dome.



PALESTINIAN-ISRAEL-GAZA-CONFLICT



Posted Image
Palestinians point a the spot where they believe the children of al-Dallu family are trapped following an Israeli air strike on their house in Gaza City. Picture: AFP Source: AFP

5.30am: According to the BBC, "Ha'aretz newspaper in Israel reports that an Israeli envoy in talks in Cairo is seeking a twin-stage ceasefire.
"First a 'small calm', in which Israeli air strikes and Gaza rocket fire would halt, and then talks leading to a 'big calm'."
However there is one report from an NPR/The Times correspondent saying the talks have already failed:


Posted Image Sheera Frenkel @sheeraf

BREAKING: Hamas official Abu Zahri says that ceasefire negotiations in Cairo have failed.
19 Nov 12

5.05am: Around 400 Egyptian activists headed to the Gaza Strip to show solidarity with its people as Israeli air strikes pounded the Palestinian enclave for a fifth day, organisers told AFP.
A five-bus convoy transporting members of several Egyptian parties and political movements arrived at the country's Rafah border crossing with Gaza, officials said.
"The trip is aimed at showing our support for the people of the Gaza Strip in the face of the Israeli aggression," said organiser Mahmud Ali of Egypt's liberal Dustoor Party.
The activists were "carrying a message of support from the people of Egypt," he added. They were also bringing medicine and emergency medical supplies.
The IDF also co-ordinated a convoy of supplies from Israel to Gaza:
4.32am: The airstrike that the IDF described as a "pinpoint" attack on Hamas communications (see the video from the 1.55am update below) wounded eight journalists and draw widespread criticism.
Reuters reports the two buildings hit were used by Britain's Sky News, German ARD, Saudi Al Arabiya, Beirut's alQuds and other broadcasters.
One al Quds cameraman had his leg amputated below the knee after being injured in the strike.
The IDF accused Hamas of using the media as "human shields" to protect its operations. The Foreign Press Association quoted a UN Security Council resolution that condemned attacks against journalists.


Posted Image Avital Leibovich

@AvitalLeibovich

By placing communication infrastructure on roofs of civilian media buildings, #Hamas uses the foreign journalists as #HumanShields #Gaza
18 Nov 12



cameraman



Posted Image
ITN Channel 4 journalist Stuart Webb Tweeted this picture of al Quds cameraman Khader Al Zahhar who was injured in an Israeli air strike on a media building overnight - surgeons amputated his leg. Picture: Twitter.com Source: Supplied

4.05am: THE Israeli army says it has killed a senior Hamas operative in Gaza who was responsible for the movement's rocket operations.
An army spokesman identified the Palestinian as Yehia Bia, who was killed in one of the northern neighbourhoods of Gaza City that experienced the brunt of Israeli attacks on Sunday.
"We can confirm a direct hit," the army spokesman said by telephone.
Deputy Prime Minister Moshe Yaalon said Bia was "the commander of the (Hamas) rocket units" whom the Israeli forces had "intercepted and killed".



PALESTINIAN-ISRAEL-GAZA-CONFLICT



Posted Image
A Palestinian boy inspects the wreckage of a car following an Israeli air strike on Beit Lahia, in the northern Gaza Strip. Picture: AFP Source: AFP

3.55am: Israel's vaunted Iron Dome anti-missile system has shot down a rocket over Tel Aviv as sirens wailed across the city, in the second such interception in one day, the military said.
"Iron Dome battery operators successfully shot down a rocket over the Tel Aviv area," it said on its Twitter account.



Palestinian



Posted Image
A man waves the Palestinian flag during a protest against Israel's operations in Gaza Strip, outside Ofer, an Israeli military prison near the West Bank city of Ramallah. Picture: Majdi Mohammed Source: AP

3.47am: One-time Republican presidential candidate John McCain has told CBS News he believes the US should send in a high-profile negotiator, such as Bill Clinton, to try to broker a lasting peace.
"We need a person of enormous prestige and influence to have these parties sit down as an honest broker," he said.
3.25am: The air strike on the home of Hamas official Mohamed Dalou has killed at least nine people, the biggest single loss of life since the conflict escalated last week.
Hamas Prime Minister Ismael Haniyeh has condemned the attack, which killed four children, as an "ugly massacre", the BBC reports.
Al Jazeera reports that 15 more people are believed to be still trapped underneath the debris from the attack.



PALESTINIAN-ISRAEL-CONFLICT-GAZA



Posted Image
Palestinians search the debris of the al-Dallu family home following an Israeli air strike in Gaza City that killed at least seven members of the same family, including four children. Picture: AFP Source: AFP

3.02am: Militants may be stripping explosives out of some rockets they fire from Gaza in order to make them travel further, Reuters reports.
Israeli security sources told the wire service that "not a few" of the rockets reaching Tel Aviv and other cities were designed for much shorter ranges but their warheads had been taken out.
"They're pipes, basically," an official said. "The prestige of setting off alarms deep in Israel and being perceived as fighting on is as important to them now as spilling our blood."



Mideast Israel Palestinians



Posted Image
Israeli soldiers sit next to Iron Dome defense system launch site, deployed in Tel Aviv to intercept incoming missiles from Gaza. Picture: AP Source: AP

2.40am: Three more people have been killed in two separate raids on Sunday, medics have told AFP, shortly after at least nine people died when an Israeli missile hit a family home in Gaza City,
The latest raids killed one man in the Shejaiya district in eastern Gaza City, and two more in the northern town of Jabaliya, the Hamas-run ambulance service said.



F-16



Posted Image
An Israeli F-16 jet pass over the Israeli city of Ashdod during a rocket launch from the nearby Gaza Strip. Picture: Jack Guez Source: AFP

2.15am: The Times of Israel reports that five people were injured in Ofakim when a rocket from Gaza landed a few metres from their car.
Two parents and an infant were taking cover next to the car and were sprayed with shrapnel. The infant suffered light injuries but the parents are in "moderate to serious condition" in hospital.


Those peace talks did not last long :sadno:
  • 0

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#190 Special Ed

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:44 PM

Pragmatically?? .. as I have said many times, nuke the whole area and leave it in your "God's" hands .. that is the simplest solution

Realistically, Israel needs to return to pre-67 positions .. Arab League, US, China, Russia and UN all need to have hands-on roles in the settlement and peace plan process .. Turkey could play a key role .. and Iran has to be told in no uncertain terms to bugger off ..


I don't see why Israel should have to do anything after 1967 - the year every Arab nation around them attacked. Maybe the Arabs should have thought that one out a bit better.
  • 1

If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#191 Special Ed

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:51 PM

I have no problem with israel defending itself , what i have been pointing out is why the palestinians are driven to attack israel .

Both sides are contributing to a circle of hatred that seems to be never ending , and has consequences for the rest of the world


There are plenty of reasons for wars if you look hard enough. Do any past mistakes now warrant attacks around the globe? Or is this just a precedent set for Israel and why? Or should natives around the world have the right to now bombard cities with rockets any time they please? Both sides have been wrong I agree. The Palestinian militias pumped up by Iran, are really showing the worst of it as far as I'm concerned right now. Regardless of what history shows.
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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#192 Special Ed

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:00 PM

WE are sorry for the crimes against humanity we committed against you in the founding of our state , we will remove our presence from our illegal settlements .

And the palestinians should say shalom brother , now we can live in peace


Wasn't the founding of their state authorized by the UN? If so are there not countless other similar apologies to make? And how simple do you believe to remove the already well established state of Israel and all it's people? Where shall they go? What about the crimes and attacks committed against israel by their neighbours as well? Bombing tourist buses. Assassinating Olympic team. Random rocket fire. I guess it's just accepted to not get any apologies there right?

Since Israel must cede land back to the so called 'natives' after being well established. I would argue it's only fair to follow suit and cede land to all natives around the world. Where will you move out of Australia to? Where will north and South Americans go? Is there even room enough to return to Europe? We can always just all return to the ocean and drown ourselves lol Many people were force off their land. Welcome to planet earth.

Edited by Special Ed, 18 November 2012 - 05:28 PM.

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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#193 Tearloch7

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:50 PM

Wasn't the founding of their state authorized by the UN? If so are there not countless other similar apologies to make? And how simple do you believe to remove the already well established state of Israel and all it's people? Where shall they go? What about the crimes and attacks committed against israel by their neighbours as well? Bombing tourist buses. Assassinating Olympic team. Random rocket fire. I guess it's just accepted to not get any apologies there right?

Since Israel must cede land back to the so called 'natives' after being well established. I would argue it's only fair to follow suit and cede land to all natives around the world. Where will you move out of Australia to? Where will north and South Americans go? Is there even room enough to return to Europe? We can always just all return to the ocean and drown ourselves lol Many people were force off their land. Welcome to planet earth.


Send the native Americans back to Siberia and then we can fight over the America's .. your ancestors came out of Africa .. are you booking a ticket any time soon? .. :P

Edited by Tearloch7, 18 November 2012 - 05:50 PM.

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#194 DarthNinja

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:07 PM

Wasn't the founding of their state authorized by the UN? If so are there not countless other similar apologies to make? And how simple do you believe to remove the already well established state of Israel and all it's people? Where shall they go? What about the crimes and attacks committed against israel by their neighbours as well? Bombing tourist buses. Assassinating Olympic team. Random rocket fire. I guess it's just accepted to not get any apologies there right?

Since Israel must cede land back to the so called 'natives' after being well established. I would argue it's only fair to follow suit and cede land to all natives around the world. Where will you move out of Australia to? Where will north and South Americans go? Is there even room enough to return to Europe? We can always just all return to the ocean and drown ourselves lol Many people were force off their land. Welcome to planet earth.


Or, this entire operation is nothing more than a smokescreen, a collective punishment against the Palestinians and a physical intimidation and threat against Palestine demanding official status in the UN, which Palestinians declared on Nov. 12th that they would seek at the end of this month. Hours later, the bombardment against Gaza begins.
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**RETIRED...**

"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens & the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We (Allah) parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" (Qur'an 21:30)

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"Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” (David Rockefeller)


#195 Special Ed

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:28 PM

Or, this entire operation is nothing more than a smokescreen, a collective punishment against the Palestinians and a physical intimidation and threat against Palestine demanding official status in the UN, which Palestinians declared on Nov. 12th that they would seek at the end of this month. Hours later, the bombardment against Gaza begins.


Or, this entire operation is nothing but a smokescreen, to instigate Israel into fighting with use of rockets(physical intimidation?) by Palestinians to try and discredit Israel with the UN. How about that version? And wouldn't it make more sense for Hamas to not fire hundreds of rockets while waiting for official status? Perhaps the rockets were all fired by Mossad. What do you think?
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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#196 Special Ed

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:33 PM

Send the native Americans back to Siberia and then we can fight over the America's .. your ancestors came out of Africa .. are you booking a ticket any time soon? .. :P


I sooner return back to the ocean and drown myself hah.


No seriously.
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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#197 taxi

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:37 PM

Or, this entire operation is nothing more than a smokescreen, a collective punishment against the Palestinians and a physical intimidation and threat against Palestine demanding official status in the UN, which Palestinians declared on Nov. 12th that they would seek at the end of this month. Hours later, the bombardment against Gaza begins.


You really love your smoke screens and false flags.   The only problem with your theory is that it's the Fatah led Palestinian Authority that is seeking recognition.   The Gaza Strip is led by Hamas.

Edited by taxi, 18 November 2012 - 08:36 PM.

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#198 DarthNinja

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:51 PM

Or, this entire operation is nothing but a smokescreen, to instigate Israel into fighting with use of rockets(physical intimidation?) by Palestinians to try and discredit Israel with the UN. How about that version? And wouldn't it make more sense for Hamas to not fire hundreds of rockets while waiting for official status? Perhaps the rockets were all fired by Mossad. What do you think?


I think you're getting a little desperate in trying to maintain your position and your version of the events (i.e. mainstream propaganda ministry media) is perfect for anyone who insists on ignoring facts and progressing down the road of self-delusion.
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**RETIRED...**

"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens & the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We (Allah) parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" (Qur'an 21:30)

11477626583_2368927097.jpg     49997_b70e6ae14ce1652fa11bd1dda624afd1.g   7649118508_ce3e8a74a1_o.jpg

"Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” (David Rockefeller)


#199 Special Ed

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:59 PM

You really love your smoke screens and false flags. The only problem with your theory is that it's the Fatah led Palestinian Authority that is seeking recognition. The Gaza Strip is led by Hamas.


Errr did you mean to quote darths post? I'm not really into smokescreen and false flags :(
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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#200 Special Ed

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:05 PM

I think you're getting a little desperate in trying to maintain your position and your version of the events (i.e. mainstream propaganda ministry media) is perfect for anyone who insists on ignoring facts and progressing down the road of self-delusion.


Desperate? I'm just trying to give you an alternative scenario that is very much circumstantial, such as yours. Not very hard to fill in the blanks with what 'you want'. I just took what you did and filled in the blanks with what 'I want'. The only 'fact' I lean on that I'm not happy about are the uncontrollable militias within Palestine and how they launch hundreds of rockets at Israel. I think you're the one ignoring that fact and progressing down the road....
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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#201 Coda

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:41 PM

This "Iron Dome" Missile system actually seems to be working. Good job by the Israeli Tech Guys. Hamas must have thought they could do some real damage launching hundreds of missiles within a few days, but casualties have been almost negligible.




http://www.nytimes.c...h-a-rocket.html

Israeli Iron Dome Stops a Rocket With a Rocket
By ISABEL KERSHNER

Published: November 18, 2012

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JERUSALEM — An abiding image of the former Israel defense minister Amir Peretz was a photograph of him peering at a military drill — with the black lens caps still on his binoculars. Mr. Peretz resigned months after the 2006 war in Lebanon, which was widely regarded as a failure.




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An Israeli family took cover during a rocket attack near the town of Ashdod in southern Israel.


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Yet on Sunday, as rockets fired byGaza militants streaked toward Tel Aviv, Ashdod and other Israeli cities, Mr. Peretz, a resident of the rocket-battered border town of Sderot, was being hailed as a defense visionary for having had the foresight while in office to face down myriad skeptics and push for the development of Iron Dome, Israel’s unique anti-rocket interceptor system.
The naysayers now are few. In the five days since Israel began its fierce assault on the militant infrastructure inHamas-run Gaza, after years of rocket fire against southern Israel, Iron Dome has successfully intercepted more than 300 rockets fired at densely populated areas, with a success rate of 80 to 90 percent, top officials said. Developed with significant American financing and undergoing its ultimate battle test, the Iron Dome system has saved many lives, protected property and proved to be a strategic game changer, experts said.
Defense Minister Ehud Barak toured a newly deployed mobile unit near Tel Aviv on Sunday and described Iron Dome as “probably the most technologically impressive achievement in recent years in Israel.” He called its performance “almost perfect.”
By preventing mass casualties, experts said, Israel’s leaders have retained public support for the continuing operation and have had more time to weigh a possible ground incursion.
Three Israelis were killed last week in a rocket attack on Kiryat Malachi, and on Sunday two Israelis were injured in Ofakim when a rocket crashed near their car. But casualties on the Israeli side have been kept low by the Iron Dome system and the fact that most Israelis have followed the instructions of the Home Front Command, taking shelter in the 15 to 90 seconds they have between the warning sirens and the landing of a rocket.
About a decade ago after primitive rockets fired from Gaza began crashing into Sderot, the Israeli defense industries’ research and development teams started working on defending against short- and midrange rockets that now travel 12 to 50 miles.
Soon after the monthlong war in Lebanon in summer 2006, when the Lebanese Hezbollahorganization fired thousands of Katyusha rockets and paralyzed northern Israel, Mr. Peretz, officials said, budgeted roughly $200 million for the first two Iron Dome mobile units.
With the Israelis racing against the growing capabilities of rocket developers in Gaza, thefirst units were deployed in March 2011. An upgraded, fifth unit was deployed on the outskirts of Tel Aviv on Saturday, two months ahead of schedule. Iron Dome is part of what professionals describe as a “multi-layer shield” that includes the Arrow system, which is being upgraded, and the Magic Wand, now in development. When finished, the system should guard against destruction from crude, short-range rockets made in Gaza to ballistic missiles from Iran.
Iron Dome shoots down rockets with a radar-guided missile known as Tamir, which was developed by Rafael Advanced Defense Systems, an Israeli company. The radar was developed by Elta, a subsidiary of Israel Aerospace Industries, and another company, Impress, developed the command and control system.
Because each interceptor missile costs $40,000 to $50,000, the system is designed to aim only at rockets headed for populated areas and to ignore those destined for open ground outside cities and towns.
Israeli officials say that the cost is offset by the lives and property that are saved.
About three years ago, Israel received $204 million from the United States to help pay for the country’s third through sixth mobile units. In February, Israel again approached the Obama administration for urgent support for four more batteries. They received $70 million immediately, and an additional $610 million has been pledged over the next three years, according to a senior official in Israel’s missile defense organization.
Dennis B. Ross, a former adviser to President Obama on Iran and the Middle East and now with the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, said in an interview that the funds came despite “a very stringent environment for assistance, where it was being cut across the board,” and that they were “emblematic” of the administration’s commitment to Israel’s security.
A defense industry official said that there were hopes the system could be exported and that the more the missiles were in demand, the cheaper they would be to make.
Rafael Advanced Defense Systems’ president, Yedidia Yaari, a former commander of the Israeli Navy, said on Israel Radio on Sunday that other countries were interested in the Iron Dome system, though there were “very few countries on the planet with threats such as we have.”
“When I have time I’ll sell to others,” he said. “Right now we are busy protecting the state of Israel.”




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMBSWGYlnF0&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=df9StIS5amI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y39fsXAUKQ

Edited by Coda, 18 November 2012 - 09:48 PM.

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#202 Pouria

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 10:05 PM

All I have to say that if Israel were gone the area would still be a bloody factional warzone, OTOH, no Arabs, no problems.


How do you know that and why are you making stupid generalizations? Its a bloody factional warzone because of US invasions and manipulations along with Israel being there. What if I said if there is no US and no Israel then no problems.
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#203 Lancaster

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 10:11 PM

Maybe the Israelis should be arming the Fatah group to eliminate Hamas from the Gaza Strip in exchange for steps toward greater self-determination.
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#204 Pouria

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 10:15 PM

Good post, but Arab population of Canada: 470,580 (wiki). I was just saying, with the ties to America and Harper's blind support, combined with the itchy trigger finger of 65 new F35s, I wouldn't be surprised if Canada got involved. I hope the situation doesn't escalate, and I genuinely hope Canada's Arab population is considered before attacking Palestine or Iran.


Iranians aren't Arabs. In fact Iranians and Arabs don't like each other so I don't see how this would affect the Arab population if Iran got attacked.
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#205 Coda

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 10:18 PM

Iranians aren't Arabs. In fact Iranians and Arabs don't like each other so I don't see how this would affect the Arab population if Iran got attacked.


Indeed. In fact as my Syrian roommate described to me very enthusiastically, Iran is enemy #1 for Arabs, while Israel is #2.
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#206 Special Ed

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 10:41 PM

This "Iron Dome" Missile system actually seems to be working. Good job by the Israeli Tech Guys.


The funniest part is how Hamas realize that and now beg for peace. Then they will just go plea to Iran for something better and come back to hit Israel again. Hopefully by then Israel has something even better too. Maybe one day they will learn and concentrate on helping their people instead of dragging them into constant war. Hamas that is.
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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#207 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 10:44 PM

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Dark green/grey areas are Iranian Arab areas. I have a friend who is Iranian Arab, but you clearly want to take some semantic point from what I was saying and distort it. I was saying frankly that the Canadian government should consider those in the region who may have immigrated here, be that Iranian or Arab, the bottom line is we have a sizeable population of both which would rather not see their home country decimated.
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#208 Special Ed

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 11:00 PM

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Dark green/grey areas are Iranian Arab areas. I have a friend who is Iranian Arab, but you clearly want to take some semantic point from what I was saying and distort it. I was saying frankly that the Canadian government should consider those in the region who may have immigrated here, be that Iranian or Arab, the bottom line is we have a sizeable population of both which would rather not see their home country decimated.


To me it is highly unlikely the west takes on a war with Iran. The only way is if there were a realistic threat of their government smuggling nuclear arms. Then again Pakistan has nukes and it doesn't get any worse than that. I very much doubt any conflict between us and Iran. It would have to some drastic changes in the current political framework and the USA doesn't want another Iraq WMD blunder.
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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#209 Pouria

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 11:02 PM

Yeah the reality of completely biased web sites that can rant on and on about one side, yet conveniently leave out simple things like the 'hundreds of indiscriminate missiles being fired' really amuses me. It's one big hilarious joke.


Dude, there is bias on both sides. You think your side of story is free of any bias? get real.
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#210 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 11:04 PM

To me it is highly unlikely the west takes on a war with Iran. The only way is if there were a realistic threat of their government smuggling nuclear arms. Then again Pakistan has nukes and it doesn't get any worse than that. I very much doubt any conflict between us and Iran. It would have to some drastic changes in the current political framework and the USA doesn't want another Iraq WMD blunder.


In all honesty this war would be more 'legitimate' in terms of rogue state status and actually having nuclear capability. I could definitely see the US getting involved if these Gaza attacks continue. As far as I'm concerned this is the match of the proverbial powdered keg. Time will tell, I hope I'm wrong.
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