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The Wonderful World of Drugs: Jon Bon Jovi's Daughter's Heroin Overdose


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#31 Gumballthechewy

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:05 PM

I wouldn't necessarily say this, or at least say it diffrerently. Any substance has the potential to be abused and this includes Pot.


Are you trying to compare pot to heroin or crack!? What's the worst pot has ever done to anyone? Ok, so it turns people into hippies and that is pretty bad, but other than that? Pot doesn't destroy lives and tear apart family's, and no matter how much people want to believe it, pot is not a 'gateway drug', I've never once smoked a joint and though, "hey, I really want to shoot some heroin!", hasn't happned yet and it never will. If children interpret "pot really isn't all that terrible" as "all drugs are safe and fun!" then they have failures for parents.

Seriously, I would rather my children smoke pot all their lives than take a single sip of alcohol.

Edited by Gumballthechewy, 16 November 2012 - 01:15 PM.

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#32 debluvscanucks

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:36 PM

Here's what I know about pot....the whole culture of doing drugs starts somewhere and usually people don't just jump in to the harder stuff, it starts innocently enough and then progresses. Not always, but in instances that I've seen that's how it happens for the most part. That it's during episodes of drinking/smoking/partying that other things get introduced into the mix. Doesn't mean pot smokers end up doing anything more - but it's usually more accessible by way of the contacts that they have and people they associate with. That people who don't smoke pot, drink and party aren't as likely to have drugs as readily offered or available to them as those already participating to lesser degrees.

Every person I know (there are many) who ended up doing hard drugs started off with pot and alcohol and that progressed along the way. They didn't just "experiment" with heroin or coke as their first experience - they'd been regularly exposed to the climate of drugs/alcohol prior to trying these other drugs. Not to say that pot makes people "crave" something more - it doesn't. But the mindset makes it more acceptable to graduate from pot in trying something "new"...the groundwork's been laid for that and it happens more easily that way. Just my thoughts on it.
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#33 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:39 PM

Thanks for the input, guys. And for sharing some of your, similar stories. What I know is that it's like a game of Russian Roulette...you may or may not be that person who can't turn back. And yes, some are predisposed to addiction, whether it be through genetics and family history or other related factors that are environmental and familiar. I do know that crack and heroin are two drugs that appear to be have the great likelihood of ending up as long term problems and aren't generally used in a social or occasional manner....I have no numbers to support this, but have years of experience in seeing it, first hand. That once people begin dabbling in these two, they end up going down that path that's difficult to free yourself from.

I grew up in Steveston when the fishing industry was booming and many of the younger fishermen got into cocaine and heroin. Money was flying around at the time, as it was a lucrative industry. Guys had lots of spare time in between openings and some got into this scene, that went hand in hand with drinking.

We lost 5 guys from the same street in a matter of about 5 years, either directly or indirectly through heroin and coke use. A few were od's, some horrible suicides. These were really great people (mostly older brothers of my friends) from good families...they just ended up there, in that world.

My own family history involves a lot of addiction (on my Mother and Father's side), so we have the strikes against us. The climate I grew up in was one where drugs were readily available all around me and most of my friends were part of that. I've tried most of what doesn't include injecting myself with something but, luckily, was able to pull myself away when falling into that hole. Somehow recognized early on that "this isn't good". I know how it can escalate and suck you in very quickly...cocaine was particularly "attractive" to people like me who liked to be in "control" but also ended up at the parties where it was prevalent. Before I had kids, I almost got caught up in that vicious cycle.

I've always felt that discussion and awareness are really great things....I've been extremely open with my kids about drugs and alcohol. I try not to do the "don't do drugs, they're bad" lectures because there's an element of intrigue in those as some will wonder "why?" and have the urge to challenge that in finding out for themselves. I've taken my daughter (who was vulnerable at the time) to an NA meeting to see that these were real people involved - good/nice people who were doing not so nice things. She immediately connected and that seemed to have much more of an impact than anything I could say to her.

For those in this thread who have teetered on that edge - thank you, for having the courage to share your experiences. There's a stigma and it can be taboo to reveal such things, as people can become judgmental and harsh in some situations, but that comes from ignorance. Those people can learn something from listening. And anyone's life can change in a heartbeat without warning, including theirs....no one tries drugs thinking "hey, I'll become an addict", but it happens. It's not about class, status or being above or better than anyone else, because addition doesn't care who you are.

With some of the back room drugs being concocted these days, overdoses are a very strong factor as anything can be thrown into the mix. So even a first time user can meet a horrible fate in a moment of carelessness while out having fun. Russian roulette, that's how I best describe the whole deal.


When I was just a child, I didn't know much about ya,
I was just a child, I didn't know much about ya, ooh...

I had a father who came from nothing
He took that and he made it something
He'd seen it all by his 21st, right
His mum and dad both left this earth, why
It was the drinking that killed his mother
He's watching the same thing kill his brother
And he doesn't say it much but he really loves us
And he doesn't want the same thing to kill his sons
When he sees me with a drink in my hand
I understand now why he thinks that it's bad
Cause he knows that it's so evil
But he knows we're our own people, so he let's us go

When I was just a child, I didn't know much about ya, ooh... ooh...
I was just a child, I didn't know much about ya, ooh... ooh...
Now I know, now I know, now I know oh oh ohh...
Now I know, now I know, now I know oh oh ohh...
I was just a child, I didn't know much about ya, ooh... ooh...

See, I don't know if God's real
But if he is I can imagine how God feels
And there's things I'd discuss with him
I bet he wouldn't change much
But there's crap he would have done different
When my grandpa passed away
I remember saying bye on his last few days
And I'm hoping there's a heaven
I want to meet again
And I never met anybody as positive as him
Not many were as sick as him
But he didn't let the illness kill his grin
And that's why I went ahead and inked my skin
Cause I remember the smile when I think of him

When I was just a child, I didn't know much about ya, ooh... ooh...
I was just a child, I didn't know much about ya, ooh... ooh...
Now I know, now I know, now I know oh oh ohh...
Now I know, now I know, now I know oh oh ohh...
I was just a child, I didn't know much about ya, ooh... ooh...

I didn't know that my brother got bullied in school
If I could go back now, I wouldn't be fooled
He probably thought mum and dad don't ???? care
But it wasn't even that, they were so unaware
Living in a family where money is favored
Makes us wanna say, I frackin' hate it
Brother though we gotta feel blessed as frack
Just remember they only want the best for us
We got a mum that's an angel, I'm thankful
To even have her in my life, I'm grateful
Family is anybody close to you
See this song right here, it is overdue
For you...

When I was just a child, I didn't know much about ya, ooh... ooh...
I was just a child, I didn't know much about ya, ooh... ooh...
Now I know, now I know, now I know oh oh ohh...
Now I know, now I know, now I know oh oh ohh...
I was just a child, I didn't know much about ya, ooh... ooh..

Matt Colwell

Edited by The Ratiocinator, 16 November 2012 - 01:40 PM.

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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

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That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#34 J.R.

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:01 PM

Here's what I know about pot....the whole culture of doing drugs starts somewhere and usually people don't just jump in to the harder stuff, it starts innocently enough and then progresses. Not always, but in instances that I've seen that's how it happens for the most part. That it's during episodes of drinking/smoking/partying that other things get introduced into the mix. Doesn't mean pot smokers end up doing anything more - but it's usually more accessible by way of the contacts that they have and people they associate with. That people who don't smoke pot, drink and party aren't as likely to have drugs as readily offered or available to them as those already participating to lesser degrees.

Every person I know (there are many) who ended up doing hard drugs started off with pot and alcohol and that progressed along the way. They didn't just "experiment" with heroin or coke as their first experience - they'd been regularly exposed to the climate of drugs/alcohol prior to trying these other drugs. Not to say that pot makes people "crave" something more - it doesn't. But the mindset makes it more acceptable to graduate from pot in trying something "new"...the groundwork's been laid for that and it happens more easily that way. Just my thoughts on it.


Going to have to disagree. I'm sticking with it's up to the individuals propensity for addiction as well as some level of education/common sense in regards to the risk of drugs. Just because I'm at the grocery store doesn't mean I HAVE to buy ice cream, chips and pop. I can have self control and make healthier choices for myself with maybe a small treat for dessert instead. It's really no different.

I smoked a LOT of pot in my youth as well as frequently drank heavily (socially...and I have a high tolerance). Not because I was addicted but because I was young, dumb and having fun...lol. I've also dabbled with occasional other drug use (mushrooms, ecstasy etc). I've been offered both cocaine and crack numerous times and declined to partake because I had the common sense and education to do so. I was a recreational user of substances because I was having fun and I knew what the risks were with "heavier" drugs and didn't want to risk becoming something more than a recreational user who was simply having fun. I was also dabbling with rare/occasional ecstasy use back when it was actually ecstasy and you didn't have the one in five chance of dying you today it seems. If I was in that period of my life now I doubt I'd touch the stuff.

So talk to your kids. Make sure they know the risks and especially if you have addiction history in your families keep a close eye on the signs would be my advice. Generally speaking I don't believe occasional recreational use of natural substances is all that risky so long as the individual can keep it recreational and not let it affect other aspects of their life negatively (relationships, work/school etc).
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#35 SkeeterHansen

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:04 PM

Pretty rude of her not to respond to her friends when they were all saying " I'll be there for you"


Of course it is. That's what friends are for....but alas, I was making a joke.
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#36 Buggernut

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:19 PM

Pretty rude of her not to respond to her friends when they were all saying " I'll be there for you"


And now, she's living on a prayer.
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#37 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:22 PM

Going to have to disagree. I'm sticking with it's up to the individuals propensity for addiction as well as some level of education/common sense in regards to the risk of drugs. Just because I'm at the grocery store doesn't mean I HAVE to buy ice cream, chips and pop. I can have self control and make healthier choices for myself with maybe a small treat for dessert instead. It's really no different.

I smoked a LOT of pot in my youth as well as frequently drank heavily (socially...and I have a high tolerance). Not because I was addicted but because I was young, dumb and having fun...lol. I've also dabbled with occasional other drug use (mushrooms, ecstasy etc). I've been offered both cocaine and crack numerous times and declined to partake because I had the common sense and education to do so. I was a recreational user of substances because I was having fun and I knew what the risks were with "heavier" drugs and didn't want to risk becoming something more than a recreational user who was simply having fun. I was also dabbling with rare/occasional ecstasy use back when it was actually ecstasy and you didn't have the one in five chance of dying you today it seems. If I was in that period of my life now I doubt I'd touch the stuff.

So talk to your kids. Make sure they know the risks and especially if you have addiction history in your families keep a close eye on the signs would be my advice. Generally speaking I don't believe occasional recreational use of natural substances is all that risky so long as the individual can keep it recreational and not let it affect other aspects of their life negatively (relationships, work/school etc).


You are going to make a great dad mate :)

My parents were/are church going , my dad has never had a drink in his life , and when i was 16 they told me , we know you are going to do drugs and alcohol , we do not want you to do these things , but always feel you can come and talk to us about them .

And i always did .

I have a compulsive , obsessive nature and amphetimenes{speed} nearly killed me , i never used a needle , but i snorted till my nose nearly fell off :sadno: , it was one of the hardest things i have ever done in my life , getting off that crap .
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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#38 debluvscanucks

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:41 PM

Going to have to disagree. I'm sticking with it's up to the individuals propensity for addiction as well as some level of education/common sense in regards to the risk of drugs. Just because I'm at the grocery store doesn't mean I HAVE to buy ice cream, chips and pop. I can have self control and make healthier choices for myself with maybe a small treat for dessert instead. It's really no different.

I smoked a LOT of pot in my youth as well as frequently drank heavily (socially...and I have a high tolerance). Not because I was addicted but because I was young, dumb and having fun...lol. I've also dabbled with occasional other drug use (mushrooms, ecstasy etc). I've been offered both cocaine and crack numerous times and declined to partake because I had the common sense and education to do so. I was a recreational user of substances because I was having fun and I knew what the risks were with "heavier" drugs and didn't want to risk becoming something more than a recreational user who was simply having fun. I was also dabbling with rare/occasional ecstasy use back when it was actually ecstasy and you didn't have the one in five chance of dying you today it seems. If I was in that period of my life now I doubt I'd touch the stuff.

So talk to your kids. Make sure they know the risks and especially if you have addiction history in your families keep a close eye on the signs would be my advice. Generally speaking I don't believe occasional recreational use of natural substances is all that risky so long as the individual can keep it recreational and not let it affect other aspects of their life negatively (relationships, work/school etc).


Oh, for sure...don't dispute this at all. I'm just saying that the exposure to other drugs is more likely to happen this way (not necessarily the addiction, itself). I know, first hand, that addiction will tug at some and not at others....my brother and I are prime examples of that. But I feel that the game of Russian roulette that I compare it to is more likely to be played by someone already dabbling in drinking/smoking than someone who is not. From what I've witnessed that's how it's gone.

You smoked/drank a lot but were lucky that you didn't have this predisposition for it to lead elsewhere or it might have snuck up on you too. That's the thing - you don't get the luxury of that when you play the game...no one chooses to be addicted and everyone smokes/drinks at first "not because they're addicted, but because they're young, dumb and having fun". However, some of those unlucky few WILL become addicted by doing the very thing that you were. So you were one of the lucky ones but, for some, they get caught up in it before they really know what's happening. It's not a "boom, you're an addict" thing....it festers for awhile first.

Don't really know what point I'm trying to make, except that it isn't always a cut and dry "choice" that's made or immediately apparent and, as you've confirmed, just out having fun means being faced with the options. Some will decline, some will try things without any further repurcussion and others will fall victim to addiction. But it's putting themselves in that situation that's presented the options.

It isn't necessarily stupid people making these decision (although they are dumb choices at the time). This is why there's such a stigma attached - people say "just stop, it's that easy". You did ectasy but could have easily ended up being one of the unlucky ones, so dabbling and experimenting for fun was a risk taken and you beat the game.
Others won't be so lucky.

There's a reason people in recovery abstain from everything and disconnect from people and places they once knew....because the lifestyle has to change. Which supports my idea that if you don't step into it in the first place, you won't be confronted with any of it. People who do risk falling.

This particular statement: "I don't believe occasional recreational use of natural substances is all that risky so long as the individual can keep it recreational and not let it affect other aspects of their life negatively" just isn't that easy and, if it was, we wouldn't have any addicts on the planet. Everyone goes into it thinking they will/can, but it just doesn't play out that way. So when you involve yourself in "occasional recreational use of" any substance you're opening that door.

I, too, believe in open communication....God, my poor kids have heard, seen it all. But, in that, they've made informed decisions that weren't based on fears that they were hammered over the head with. They've seen how it plays out and there's no better life lesson than that. I've never sheltered them from anything because I feel that, with the right parental intervention and guidance, anything can be used as a life lesson. The rest is up to them.
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#39 Gumballthechewy

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:44 PM

Going to have to disagree. I'm sticking with it's up to the individuals propensity for addiction as well as some level of education/common sense in regards to the risk of drugs. Just because I'm at the grocery store doesn't mean I HAVE to buy ice cream, chips and pop. I can have self control and make healthier choices for myself with maybe a small treat for dessert instead. It's really no different.


I had to edit it down due to length (I don't like posting long quotes) but I agree with your post wholeheartedly. In the end it comes down to you, you say yes or no, you can't blame one drug for getting you to use another, the only one you have to blame is yourself.

Edited by Gumballthechewy, 16 November 2012 - 02:46 PM.

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#40 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:56 PM

I had to edit it down due to length (I don't like posting long quotes) but I agree with your post wholeheartedly. In the end it comes down to you, you say yes or no, you can't blame one drug for getting you to use another, the only one you have to blame is yourself.


That is the way to beat addiction , by taking responibility for your actions , addmitting to one's self that you have fracked up .
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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#41 Darth Kane

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 03:09 PM

Going to have to disagree. I'm sticking with it's up to the individuals propensity for addiction as well as some level of education/common sense in regards to the risk of drugs. Just because I'm at the grocery store doesn't mean I HAVE to buy ice cream, chips and pop. I can have self control and make healthier choices for myself with maybe a small treat for dessert instead. It's really no different.

I smoked a LOT of pot in my youth as well as frequently drank heavily (socially...and I have a high tolerance). Not because I was addicted but because I was young, dumb and having fun...lol. I've also dabbled with occasional other drug use (mushrooms, ecstasy etc). I've been offered both cocaine and crack numerous times and declined to partake because I had the common sense and education to do so. I was a recreational user of substances because I was having fun and I knew what the risks were with "heavier" drugs and didn't want to risk becoming something more than a recreational user who was simply having fun. I was also dabbling with rare/occasional ecstasy use back when it was actually ecstasy and you didn't have the one in five chance of dying you today it seems. If I was in that period of my life now I doubt I'd touch the stuff.

So talk to your kids. Make sure they know the risks and especially if you have addiction history in your families keep a close eye on the signs would be my advice. Generally speaking I don't believe occasional recreational use of natural substances is all that risky so long as the individual can keep it recreational and not let it affect other aspects of their life negatively (relationships, work/school etc).



It's the kids I'm more worried about.

Parents are only one source of influence for kids, there are so many more that end up having as much influence or more. It would be naive to think that just because you talk to your kids they're be responsible with drugs. The parents of one of my son's friends allowed him to smoke pot at home (at the age of 15). He ended up smoking pot at home, dealing drugs and doing harder drugs outside of the home. I don't necessarily think pot is worse than alcohol, but I don't want my kids doing either. Kids can control themselves as well as adults can and they can't decipher messages from the media, their parents, and their friends as you might expect.

We'll have to agree to disagree on pot being a gateway drug. Personally, I've seen pot be exactly that. Can pot be used responsibly? I have no doubt that it can, but so can alcohol but I've seen it abused too. Bottom line is that I don't want my kids to smoke pot, drink or do any other drug. I know my oldest does on occasion, but he's also told me that if I wasn't so involved by communicating about drugs and letting him know I don't want him using he'd be using more often and likely trying a lot more different drugs. It's a constant battle with kids and drugs, all we can do as parents is educate them to the point they are smart enough to make the best decisions for their lives - and hope they actually do!
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#42 elvis15

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:15 PM

Are you trying to compare pot to heroin or crack!? What's the worst pot has ever done to anyone? Ok, so it turns people into hippies and that is pretty bad, but other than that? Pot doesn't destroy lives and tear apart family's, and no matter how much people want to believe it, pot is not a 'gateway drug', I've never once smoked a joint and though, "hey, I really want to shoot some heroin!", hasn't happned yet and it never will. If children interpret "pot really isn't all that terrible" as "all drugs are safe and fun!" then they have failures for parents.

Seriously, I would rather my children smoke pot all their lives than take a single sip of alcohol.

While it hasn't necessarily been said explicitly, I think we all are aware that certain drugs are more destructive and certain drugs have more addictive qualities.

Relating that to pot (and I don't like the term 'gateway drug') it's easy to see how someone who has access to pot, and illegal drug in most places, would have more opportunity to have access to stronger, more dangerous drugs. It's also easy to see with JR's comment about having to make that individual choice how someone under the influence of pot might be more likely to try something they wouldn't normally, or even have something mixed in with the pot they didn't intend to try. One let down might be enough, as has been noted in this thread.

Consider that in relation to cigarettes. Cigarettes are available for sale legally with age restrictions to protect younger, more impressionable potential users. Sure some get them when they're too young to do so, or even get started by bumming them off of others in a social setting rather than having to illegally buy them, but the point is that they are highly addictive and way worse for you health-wise than a pot cigarette would be yet they aren't considered a gateway drug. That hardly means pot is healthy (medicinal properties for pain relief and other treatments doesn't make it good for you) but it's less damaging than cigarettes yet cigarettes don't have the same stigma despite being a drug that's more addictive than pot. The same goes for alcohol and caffeine, that are more socially acceptable, but still addictive drugs.

Pot will always have that stigma because it's illegal. Even if personal use possession laws were put in place the stigma would remain because it's also recreational and often a group activity that could lead to the introduction of stronger drugs whether or not people partake. Going back to cigarettes you don't see people getting together just to smoke recreationally (obviously being huddled outside together at break time or people going to cigar clubs don't quite have the same perception as a bunch of stoners getting together, right or wrong).

And I'm not saying pot smokers are more likely to do coke or heroin than a bunch of old men sitting around smoking pipes and cigars just because pot is involved, but realistically we tend to understand that while other things may be more damaging, they are also less likely than pot to create the opportunity or attract the type of person that might be involved in other illegal drug use. The actuality of that could change with pot becoming legal, but that's the reality of it the way things are currently.
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#43 Gumballthechewy

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:41 PM

And I'm not saying pot smokers are more likely to do coke or heroin than a bunch of old men sitting around smoking pipes and cigars just because pot is involved, but realistically we tend to understand that while other things may be more damaging, they are also less likely than pot to create the opportunity or attract the type of person that might be involved in other illegal drug use. The actuality of that could change with pot becoming legal, but that's the reality of it the way things are currently.


Not to disregard your post because I do agree, but I associate cigarets with junkies more so than I do pot. Every dope fiend and junkie I see, more often than not, smokes tobacco. But that's just me, the majority of people probably don't see it same way.
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#44 elvis15

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:12 PM

Not to disregard your post because I do agree, but I associate cigarets with junkies more so than I do pot. Every dope fiend and junkie I see, more often than not, smokes tobacco. But that's just me, the majority of people probably don't see it same way.

It could well be personal viewpoint, but there are certainly a significantly higher percentage of normal people who smoke who aren't addicts. Just because addicts are also often smokers doesn't mean the inverse, but I understand your point.
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#45 Offensive Threat

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 02:00 AM

We all smoked weed when I was young. Myself, my circle of close friends, the varying circles of less close friends, everyone. From about 16 to mid 20s or so. Only one of these dozens of people went on to other harder drugs and he has what I would call a Addictive personality. Everything he does he does to excess. Positive things as well as negative. The point is that Pot isnt a gateway drug or a lot more of my friend would have gone down that road. Sure we did mushrooms and acid every so often but never would I have ever put a needle in my arm. The line was pretty clear without anyone ever having to say it.

That was back in the late 80s to early 90s. Weed today is way stronger. Way more potent than back then.

Theres a line from Seinfeld where Jerry asks George: Do you remember when we stopped doing drugs? George answers: No....
Thats how it was for me and my friends. Everybody just stopped eventually. I pretty well gave it up on Graduation day from Uvic. The real world was coming.lol.
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#46 D-Money

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:39 AM

I have managed to get through life drug-free (save for alcohol, which I enjoy regularly). Never tried any illegal drugs, and not even a single cigarette. Have absolutely no use for them. Fortunately, I grew up in a good, secure family, and did not have tragic experiences that drove me towards them.

One thing that made me really detest the idea of trying drugs - even once - was research on how drugs affect your ability to feel pleasure. The "high" from a strong drug will flood you with so much dopamine, that it damages the receptors. That is why a drug user has to continually increase the dosage to get the same high from it.

But it's not just drugs. It negatively affects every single pleasurable event in your life from that point forward. Every time you have some amazing food, see a fantastic movie, hear your favourite song, have sex, etc., etc., you will feel a bit less pleasure, multiplied by how many times you got high.

So whether I'd end up addicted or not really doesn't matter. I'm a pretty easy-going guy who likes to enjoy the simple things. The idea of cheating myself of any of my day-to-day happiness, for the rest of my life, for brief moments of ecstasy doesn't appeal to me at all.
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#47 Shift-4

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:41 AM

Right on D-Money.

I prefer the natural highs as well.
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