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#1 Red-Haired_Shanks

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 04:47 PM

Most people assume since Washington has Holtby being young and having a good playoff showing that they are not in need of Goalie help, but i don't think that's true. there are several scenarios as to why Washington may be in need of a goalie like Luongo.

1. Holtby could be a one hit wonder like Corey Crawford. he had a great playoff against us in 2011 and earned a starting role but he faltered during the next season and posted average numbers during the season and even worse numbers during the playoffs. now they are in need of goal tending help. whos to say Hotby doesn't follow the same path. and Neuvirth isn't exactly a great tender either so they may need help in net. enter Luongo who is an elite goalie.

2. Most people assume Holtby will be a better goalie than Luongo because he is younger and has a lower cap hit, but the fact is neither Holtby and Neuvirth may turn out to be as good as Luongo. NHL owners and GM's want the best team possible so if there is an upgrade in an area they would take it. i think Washington would be a good fit for Luongo and Luongo a good fit for Washington

so here is my trade

Vancouver trades G Roberto Luongo, LW Mason Raymond and D Chris Tanev to Washington for D Karl Alzner, RW Troy Brouwer and a 2014 1st round draft pick

Raymond=Brouwer
Luongo+Tanev=Alzner+1st

Reasons:
Washington gets a proven Allstar Goalie that can be the final piece in their puzzle to win the cup, a good winger to replace Brouwer's point production and a young d-man to replace Alzner somewhat

We get a good young big d-man to pair up with Ballard on the bottom pairing, a gritty winger to toughen up our team and he has leadership and playoff experience(he win the cup with Chicago) in Brouwer and a 1st rounder for next year (Alzner is from Burnaby, Brouwer is from Vancouver BTW)

Rosters after trades

Vancouver Canucks
FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($2.000m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Chris Higgins ($1.900m)
Troy Brouwer ($2.350m) / Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Andrew Ebbett ($0.600m) / Manny Malhotra ($2.500m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Aaron Volpatti ($0.600m) / Dale Weise ($0.615m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m) / Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m)
Jason Garrison ($4.600m) / Alexander Edler ($3.250m)
Keith Ballard ($4.200m) / Karl Alzner ($1.285m)
Andrew Alberts ($1.225m) /
GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
Eddie Lack ($0.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,645,000; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $6,555,000

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Washington Capitals
FORWARDS
Alex Ovechkin ($9.538m) / Nicklas Backstrom ($6.700m) / Marcus Johansson ($0.900m)
Mason Raymond ($2.275m) / Mike Ribeiro ($5.000m) / Brooks Laich ($4.500m)
Jason Chimera ($1.750m) / Jay Beagle ($0.900m) / Joel Ward ($3.000m)
Wojtek Wolski ($0.600m) / Mathieu Perreault ($1.050m) / Matt Hendricks ($0.825m)
Joey Crabb ($0.950m)
DEFENSEMEN
Mike Green ($6.083m) / John Carlson ($3.967m)
Roman Hamrlik ($3.500m) / Tom Poti ($2.875m)
Dmitry Orlov ($0.900m) / Chris Tanev ($0.900m)
Jeff Schultz ($2.750m) /
GOALTENDERS
Roberto Luongo ($5.333m)
Braden Holtby ($0.638m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,167,905; BONUSES: $240,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $5,272,095
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#2 Pineapples

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 04:58 PM

Washington will want to give Holtby a chance before bringing in someone like Luongo. They'll want to give him the next season for him to prove if he can handle a starting role. If he falters, then a trade would be a lot more realistic, but then we would have both goalies for another year. I'm not against it but MG might want to trade someone by the deadline who knows. I just see it as a slim possibility this trade happens.

Also, Brouwer is probably worth more than Raymond.
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#3 Red-Haired_Shanks

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 05:06 PM

Washington will want to give Holtby a chance before bringing in someone like Luongo. They'll want to give him the next season for him to prove if he can handle a starting role. If he falters, then a trade would be a lot more realistic, but then we would have both goalies for another year. I'm not against it but MG might want to trade someone by the deadline who knows. I just see it as a slim possibility this trade happens.

Also, Brouwer is probably worth more than Raymond.


i agree but lets say Holtby does falter would this be a good deadline deal instead?

and i would actualy put raymond as more valuable than brouwer tbh. raymond put up a career high of 53pts brouwer has a high of 40. last year raymond put up 20 pts in 55 games brouwer put up 33 in 82 games. its just that brouwer is more physical than raymond but raymond is the more skilled.
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#4 Jägermeister

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 05:19 PM

Even if Holtby and Neuvirth both don't fair well this year, that trade hurts them more than it would help them.
Luongo for Alzner plus a 2nd or 3rd rounder might be fair, Alzner is on his way to becoming one of the leagues premier shut down D.

As far as what you proposed.
Raymond <<< Brouwer
Luongo + Tanev = Alzner +1st

Edited by Jägermeister, 17 November 2012 - 05:21 PM.

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#5 Red-Haired_Shanks

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 05:25 PM

Even if Holtby and Neuvirth both don't fair well this year, that trade hurts them more than it would help them.
Luongo for Alzner plus a 2nd or 3rd rounder might be fair, Alzner is on his way to becoming one of the leagues premier shut down D.

As far as what you proposed.
Raymond <<< Brouwer
Luongo + Tanev = Alzner +1st


how do you consider brouwer to be better than raymond?
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#6 Pears

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 05:34 PM

how do you consider brouwer to be better than raymond?

Brouwer is way more grittier than Raymond. Like, its not even close.

But other than that it ain't to bad.
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#7 qwijibo

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 06:00 PM

The arguments you made against Washington running with Holtby and Neuvirth could just as easily be made against Vancouver running with Schmeider and Lack. Truth be told neither team will know how things will shake out until their young goalies are actually tested as starters. That being the case it makes no sense for Washington to give up valuable assets to get Luongo. On top of that you have Washington overpaying. No way would that package get you Alzner, Brower AND a 1st
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#8 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 06:14 PM

Washington isn't in the Market for Luongo and this is why.

1. They have 2 capable goalies, regardless of if one faulters, they have two and they are both young and are on there way to probably becoming solid #1's.

But most importantly:

2. They have bigger needs, if they are going to use asset's to get something, why wouldn't they use it to fill a hole rather than getting an upgrade in an area that they already have covered. To me it doesn't really make alot of sense.


As for the deal they Decline. Alzner is way too important for them to give up (Similar to the importance of Hamhuis for us)

And Brouwer > Raymond.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 17 November 2012 - 06:14 PM.

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#9 palindrom

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 06:32 PM

Washington gets a proven Allstar Goalie that can be the final piece in their puzzle to win the cu


playoff 2012 - Washington without Luongo actually went farther into the playoff than Vancouver with Luongo.
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#10 Pears

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 06:47 PM

playoff 2012 - Washington without Luongo actually went farther into the playoff than Vancouver with Luongo.

But what if Thomas turned into a demi-god like Quick did?
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#11 Red-Haired_Shanks

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 06:50 PM

playoff 2012 - Washington without Luongo actually went farther into the playoff than Vancouver with Luongo.

ya but they didnt face the cup champs that rolled over every teams. they faced teams that didnt even make it to the finals.
and is till think raymond has more upside than brouwer. but i see all your peoples points. thanks for the feedback
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#12 palindrom

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:59 PM

ya but they didnt face the cup champs that rolled over every teams. they faced teams that didnt even make it to the finals.
and is till think raymond has more upside than brouwer. but i see all your peoples points. thanks for the feedback


I just feel "the final piece in their puzzle to win the cup" is a bit strong to describe Luongo.

And if he indeed is, it mean Vancouver wont win it!

Edited by palindrom, 17 November 2012 - 09:00 PM.

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#13 Jägermeister

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 09:44 PM

how do you consider brouwer to be better than raymond?


Both put up an equal number of points, however Brouwer is grittier and more versatile.
One of the best 3rd liners in the league, and still makes a good 2nd liner. Raymond on the other hand...
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#14 bossram

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 11:40 PM

I don't think the value is way off, but I really doubt Washington would be interested. They probably don't want to deal Alzner or the 1st and Brouwer is a pretty versatile player for them. Their plan is to go into the season with Holtby/Neuvirth and they're sticking to it.

However we do no need a 3rd line center, so I was wondering if maybe a deal around Perrault for Raymond could work out? Perrault is a decent player; can be a grinder and has offensive ability. I think he's deserved more playing time but has been buried by depth in Washington and it won't get any better with all of Backstrom, Ribeiro, Laich, Johansson, Beagle able to play center. Raymond is probably a better top-six option for Washington than Wolski.
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#15 Pineapples

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 12:03 AM

i agree but lets say Holtby does falter would this be a good deadline deal instead?

and i would actualy put raymond as more valuable than brouwer tbh. raymond put up a career high of 53pts brouwer has a high of 40. last year raymond put up 20 pts in 55 games brouwer put up 33 in 82 games. its just that brouwer is more physical than raymond but raymond is the more skilled.


I still think the Caps will give him a full year, similar to Chicago with Crawford.

And Brouwer has more value because of grit and moveability. He's similar to Higgins, as in he can be placed on any line.

Raymond has more upside, and I would say he has some decent value. Everyone who says he is worthless is just hopping on the bandwagon to use him as a scapegoat. Similar to another Canuck in this proposal...
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#16 shawn antoski

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 03:45 PM

I like your trades but you scared me with the holtby and neurith being so young they might falter and washington will need luongo.
What if schneider doesnt have an all star season as a starter and lack cant handle the big leagues . Who's head will the fans call for next.... Gillis?... AV?

I say we keep Lu just in case, and play them 50/50 split
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#17 Peaches

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 04:14 PM

Brouweur > Raymond
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