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What Will Obama's Legacy Be?


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#61 darkpuncher

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 05:26 AM

May your access to Fox news NEVER expire and you will be perpetually happy ..

Actually for the record I do not get Fox news like most Canadians. But just because most people out there drink the liberal media cool aid that doesn't mean that I will be another sheep and follow this trend. I have no political or religious affiliations so I can look at the facts objectively and judge for myself that the least 3 presidents of the US have been under qualified to run the Whitehouse. That is why the US is in the state it is in so you can say Obama is all kittens and moonbeams all you want but the stats and the economy doesn't lie.

#62 Mr. Ambien

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 08:22 AM

:picard: Click This Bud

If they stop fueling for war, then they would have money to pay off some of the debt, and it would be a great step in the right direction. No one wants to fight these wars and people are becoming increasingly sick of them.
If the US was going to spend imaginary money on anything, it should have been investments.
They could have easily decided to stimulate the economy rather than spend it on power and control.
The US is fighting wars that don't need to be fought, and they're wasting way to much money on this. If I was American, I wouldn't be okay with having a flag drenched in blood.

What we as people need to do is stop worrying about what will make us the quickest dollar and actually focus on fixing the issues that we're stimulating. As long as humanity is a closed-minded, egotistical, selfish race; we will always be a cancerous bacteria. Just as mold to a sandwich, we're humans to an Earth.

Fixing the issue in this case is not to "stimulate the economy", it's to stop using stimulus to keep the US economy at artificial levels, and take a necessary recession (the recession late last decade was mitigated by massive stimulus which didn't fix the problem but exacerbate it) due to so many years of reckless spending to pay off debts. Having a normal economy and spending within one's means is a fix for awful fiscal policy, and repercussions need to be met for so many years of using the US government/Fed credit card.

As I type this, Bernanke is about to inject currency and provide a near trillion dollar stimulus, which is another massive amount of debt to pretend the US economy is doing a-ok. As time goes on stimulus is having a lessening effect, which means the US will have to eat an economic crash or spend itself to the eyeballs into debt for this facade. Stimulus is supposed to be a temporary measure, much like the Bush tax cuts, but this has been used perpetually since Bush's second term. I have no faith the US has any resolve to fix it's fiscal problems before it's debt liabilities soon surpass SS/Medicare. Cutting defence spending (i.e. including war costs) will only slightly help. The fix for this problem is something the US refuses to do which is massively cut spending.

Obama's legacy (I just realised I can't even read the OP so going by the title :lol:) depends on which world one prefers to live in. In the real world, he's a fiscal Bush clone on steroids who has dangerously put the US in a significantly closer position of annihilating it's worldwide credit, losing status as reserve currency, steps closer to insolvency, and yet somehow being worldwide cowboy who should romp around the world spreading freedom and dictating to governments on the other side of the planet how they should act within their own country. For the Obama fanatics, it's still Bush's fault, and the cult of personality effect continues.

Edited by zaibatsu, 13 December 2012 - 08:25 AM.


#63 canuckster19

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 09:52 AM

Fixing the issue in this case is not to "stimulate the economy", it's to stop using stimulus to keep the US economy at artificial levels, and take a necessary recession (the recession late last decade was mitigated by massive stimulus which didn't fix the problem but exacerbate it) due to so many years of reckless spending to pay off debts. Having a normal economy and spending within one's means is a fix for awful fiscal policy, and repercussions need to be met for so many years of using the US government/Fed credit card.

As I type this, Bernanke is about to inject currency and provide a near trillion dollar stimulus, which is another massive amount of debt to pretend the US economy is doing a-ok. As time goes on stimulus is having a lessening effect, which means the US will have to eat an economic crash or spend itself to the eyeballs into debt for this facade. Stimulus is supposed to be a temporary measure, much like the Bush tax cuts, but this has been used perpetually since Bush's second term. I have no faith the US has any resolve to fix it's fiscal problems before it's debt liabilities soon surpass SS/Medicare. Cutting defence spending (i.e. including war costs) will only slightly help. The fix for this problem is something the US refuses to do which is massively cut spending.

Obama's legacy (I just realised I can't even read the OP so going by the title :lol:) depends on which world one prefers to live in. In the real world, he's a fiscal Bush clone on steroids who has dangerously put the US in a significantly closer position of annihilating it's worldwide credit, losing status as reserve currency, steps closer to insolvency, and yet somehow being worldwide cowboy who should romp around the world spreading freedom and dictating to governments on the other side of the planet how they should act within their own country. For the Obama fanatics, it's still Bush's fault, and the cult of personality effect continues.


I think there will be significant turn around once the Bush tax cuts expire, at least they may be able to pay down the debt.
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#64 Mr. Ambien

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:12 AM

I think there will be significant turn around once the Bush tax cuts expire, at least they may be able to pay down the debt.

What gave you this idea? Bush tax cuts didn't spend money government didn't have, and it is not the source of why the US accrued over $12 trillion in federal debt since the Bush tax cuts were signed. It isn't the lack of taxes that is the problem.. it's the excessive spending. You cannot tax your way out of fiscal policy this bad when it includes perpetual debt financed stimulus. Spending must be cut dramatically.

#65 Electro Rock

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:36 AM

Comrade Obama has two things going for him, he'll be one of the founding fathers of the Social States of America after the collapse, and he'll have fufilled the dreams of the likes of Yuri Andropov, Saul Alynski and George Soros.
"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened."

Norman Thomas

#66 J.R.

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:59 AM

Comrade Obama has two things going for him, he'll be one of the founding fathers of the Social States of America after the collapse, and he'll have fufilled the dreams of the likes of Yuri Andropov, Saul Alynski and George Soros.


Do you realize that attempting to make silly correlations to communism with Obama actually detracts from any argument you think you're trying to make? It undermines both your credibility and the perception of your understanding of politics.
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#67 Tearloch7

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:12 AM

Do you realize that attempting to make silly correlations to communism with Obama actually detracts from any argument you think you're trying to make? It undermines both your credibility and the perception of your understanding of politics.


Electro often leaves me speechless .. thank you for your eloquent retort .. mine involved spewing and toilet paper .. :)

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#68 J.R.

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 12:28 PM

IMO, the current state of the USA is akin to a boat with a big old hole in it's hull.

The government is furiously attempting to bail water and ditch cargo in an attempt to make it back to port. It may or may not work but you're losing a LOT along the way. What they probably should be doing is running the boat aground on that nearby little island, unload the cargo and repair/rebuild the one they have. It won't be easy and there'll be some hard days on that island but it beats going under trying to make it back to port.
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#69 Lockout Casualty

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:32 AM

IMO, the current state of the USA is akin to a boat with a big old hole in it's hull.

The government is furiously attempting to bail water and ditch cargo in an attempt to make it back to port. It may or may not work but you're losing a LOT along the way. What they probably should be doing is running the boat aground on that nearby little island, unload the cargo and repair/rebuild the one they have. It won't be easy and there'll be some hard days on that island but it beats going under trying to make it back to port.


I think it's more accurate to say they are preserving the hole more than they are trying to stay afloat. Cargo overboard is to keep the passengers from noticing how much water's been taken in.

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#70 Electro Rock

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 12:00 PM

Do you realize that attempting to make silly correlations to communism with Obama actually detracts from any argument you think you're trying to make? It undermines both your credibility and the perception of your understanding of politics.


Communism as actually practiced, not the 19th century theory, is hardline statism where an elite oligachy wield absolute power over a vast body of neo-serfs, but where there's considerable effort made to make it appear at least that the serf class is benefitting and included.

One does not have to be a wild eyed Che Guevara type barefoot revolutary to be a "Communist", anyone who ultimately serves the Progressive agenda in a countless number of ways gets the label IMO.




"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened."

Norman Thomas




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