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#1051 Sidney Crosby.

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:26 PM

True enough, I mean even though Gally was giving up insane players he was getting back an elite player.....this Goligoski trade, swee is getting nothing for that elite player


The Suter deal is not even in the same league as my Goligoski deal...

Alex Goligoski is NOT an elite player. I really believe he is a top 4 defenceman and would give the elite defenceman title to players such as Shea Weber, Erik Karlsson, Kris Letang, and Zedano Chara. And to that point his ratings clearly suggest a top 4 guy rather then a top 2, "elite" defenceman (62CK, 82PA, 72SC, 73DF, http://www.cdcsimlea...m=27&player=769).

wouldnt call goligoski an elite player, though, swee did get nothing in return for him. Not sure how this one got by the review board.


I think it's unfair to say "swee did get nothing in return". It seems like 1st round picks in the STHS have PO ratings around 70-75, and both players DAL recieved have those high potential rating's, Sundstrom (75) and Kuhnhackl (70). Here is a look at the rest of the ratings for the two prospects sweedishdomination traded for:

Johan Sundstrom: 63SK, 72ST, 56SC, 54PA, 75PO http://www.cdcsimlea...=29&player=1508
Tom Kuhnhackl: 68SK, 64PA, 57SC, 64DF, 70PO http://www.cdcsimlea...=29&player=1601

Also included in the deal DAL recieved 2 second round picks. Second rounders are bound to get sweedish another two prospects rated at around a 65-70 PO rating. Pretty good to begin that infamous sweefish rebuild.

And the final point I would like to raise is that there have been a number of questionable deals both in this league and through other expirences on the canucks fantasy forum. GM's have different motives for each trade and may not become visible until much later. Thinking of this offseason alone the deals that come to mind of being unfair are the Nyquist + Andersson for a 3rd deal or the Havlat for virtually nothing deal. Will these other trades be looked at by the "trade review board" if my Goligoski deal does? In the end I accept whatever VC decides to do with the trade that Ari accepted and announced in the thread.
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#1052 Baercheese

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:38 PM

High potentials but shjtty everything else :lol:

Plus, don't the re-rates consider real-life performances as well? I doubt either of them will get a bigger re-rate than Goligoski himself

Just sayin'
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#1053 Sidney Crosby.

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:51 PM

High potentials but shjtty everything else :lol:

Plus, don't the re-rates consider real-life performances as well? I doubt either of them will get a bigger re-rate than Goligoski himself

Just sayin'


I totally agree with you, the re-rates change the dynamics of the deal. I made this trade with sweedish based on the current rating system, which is the best thing that we have to base off of rather then rerates which has yet to happen.
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#1054 canucklax

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:01 PM

I think it's unfair to say "swee did get nothing in return".


I agree Goligoski is not an elite player, I'd say he's a number 3 defender. That being said, many other teams are in the market for top 4 defenders, look at how much Crom had to pay to get phaneuf, a player with more value but not that much more. The 2 prospects have good potential but are 3rd line ahl'ers at this point, and both were drafted a few years ago. Neither are "can't miss" prospects or highly touted guys, they were mid round picks. The picks have a 25% chance of ever becoming an NHL player, and that percentage drops when you think of how many years a sim league usually lasts
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#1055 Chimon

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:27 PM

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Quoting doesn't work properly on my phone, but here goes:

Goligoski is a serviceable top-pairing defenceman despite what his ratings suggest. Stick him with a good partner and ice time and he thrive just like in Dallas. His defensive may not be something to boast about but I bet he would play a #2 and big PP role on at least half the teams in this league. Not to mention that given the state of your defence prior to this trade, you are in fact getting a top pairing player for not much going the other way. Barring a miracle season, Sundstrom will be hard pressed to make it to the big show and Kunhackl is likely to top out as a 3rd liner (optimally). 75 and 70 potential are nothing to write home about given that those two players had poor seasons and ice time, limiting their re-rated growth. Moreover, the 2nd rounders aren't exactly deal-makers either. Given the talent that you have and theaaddition of Goligoski, the Pens will likely finish in the top-20 next season, not exactly a prime draft position in the second round.

I don't have a huge vested interest now that I'm not managing Dallas, but it's a shame to see my efforts of taking that team to the post-season on the backs of players like Goligoski (and to a lesser extent Ott) go to waste. Goligoski should and could have fetched a much higher price.

Guess people know why I may request NTCs for core players as agent to prevent lopsided deals like this. Makes GMs think harder about the deals that they make.

Edited by Chimon, 18 December 2012 - 03:44 PM.

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#1056 Caboose

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:05 PM

I like how sweefish has yet to come and justify this move.
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#1057 OurTimeToShine

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 07:50 PM

Looking to make some move's, looking to upgrade on D especially.
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#1058 Nathan MacKinnon

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:15 PM

I may not be positive, but I think that "Elite Player" Nathan MacKinnon is talking about is Ryan Suter in his old vetoed trade.


No I meant Goligoski, I meant he's a solid #2 or 3 defenseman who is still young but if you mean like Norris calibre then no

The Suter deal is not even in the same league as my Goligoski deal...

Alex Goligoski is NOT an elite player. I really believe he is a top 4 defenceman and would give the elite defenceman title to players such as Shea Weber, Erik Karlsson, Kris Letang, and Zedano Chara. And to that point his ratings clearly suggest a top 4 guy rather then a top 2, "elite" defenceman (62CK, 82PA, 72SC, 73DF, http://www.cdcsimlea...m=27&player=769).



I think it's unfair to say "swee did get nothing in return". It seems like 1st round picks in the STHS have PO ratings around 70-75, and both players DAL recieved have those high potential rating's, Sundstrom (75) and Kuhnhackl (70). Here is a look at the rest of the ratings for the two prospects sweedishdomination traded for:

Johan Sundstrom: 63SK, 72ST, 56SC, 54PA, 75PO http://www.cdcsimlea...=29&player=1508
Tom Kuhnhackl: 68SK, 64PA, 57SC, 64DF, 70PO http://www.cdcsimlea...=29&player=1601

Also included in the deal DAL recieved 2 second round picks. Second rounders are bound to get sweedish another two prospects rated at around a 65-70 PO rating. Pretty good to begin that infamous sweefish rebuild.

And the final point I would like to raise is that there have been a number of questionable deals both in this league and through other expirences on the canucks fantasy forum. GM's have different motives for each trade and may not become visible until much later. Thinking of this offseason alone the deals that come to mind of being unfair are the Nyquist + Andersson for a 3rd deal or the Havlat for virtually nothing deal. Will these other trades be looked at by the "trade review board" if my Goligoski deal does? In the end I accept whatever VC decides to do with the trade that Ari accepted and announced in the thread.


I agree that the Suter deal is not in the same league, the Suter deal was very lopsided however I feel this Goligoski one is too...sure he's gettign 1st rounders but they were from a while ago and it's not that fair IMO
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#1059 canucklax

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:38 PM

I agree that the Suter deal is not in the same league, the Suter deal was very lopsided however I feel this Goligoski one is too...sure he's gettign 1st rounders but they were from a while ago and it's not that fair IMO


Not even, sundstrom was a late 2nd rounder, Kuhnhackl a 4th
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#1060 Nathan MacKinnon

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:48 PM

Not even, sundstrom was a late 2nd rounder, Kuhnhackl a 4th


I heard somebody say 1st rounders

2nd and 4th for a top 2/4 defenseman? What ?
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#1061 canucklax

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:01 PM

I heard somebody say 1st rounders

2nd and 4th for a top 2/4 defenseman? What ?


That somebody would be the guy who got goligoski
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#1062 Nathan MacKinnon

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:03 PM

Here comes swee to tell his side of the story.............
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#1063 Sidney Crosby.

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:09 PM

That somebody would be the guy who got goligoski


I did not say that the prospects were former first round picks... I did say though that their PO ratings are very similar to most prospects drafted in the 1st round.
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#1064 canucklax

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:11 PM

I did not say that the prospects were former first round picks... I did say though that their PO ratings are very similar to most prospects drafted in the 1st round.


even though their actual skill is well below
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#1065 Dion Phaneuf

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:15 PM

I believe that Pittsburgh should give up a notable prospect in order to get Goligoski (top 4 d). He has a ton of solid prospects, it shouldn't be a problem to make deal somewhat decent.

I agree that several other meh deals have been given the green light so I wouldn't be overly disappointed if nothing happens...everyone GM has a plan. lol

Edited by The Phaneuf Train, 18 December 2012 - 09:16 PM.

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#1066 canucklax

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:18 PM

I agree that several other meh deals have been given the green light so I wouldn't be overly disappointed if nothing happens...everyone GM has a plan. lol


You know what they say about assuming....

pretty sure sweefish just saw the deal and said yes
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#1067 Dion Phaneuf

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:20 PM

You know what they say about assuming....

pretty sure sweefish just saw the deal and said yes


Everyone has forgotten that he/she loves his/her swedes. ;)
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#1068 Lups

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:20 PM

I vote that this trade is vetoed
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#1069 AriGold

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:21 PM

The trade was accepted after it was vetoed the 1st time (Sundstrom was added).

Sometimes we need to teach GM's better skills at trading by pushing through a trade and letting the other GM's rip him apart for it. The trade was pretty bad but it was accepted so it's time to move on at this point, it's been beaten to death.

We can't make a habit of vetoing trades all the time or GM's will be pissed off, Instead we ask some GM's to add more pieces. We basically told Swee that the trade wasn't fair, then more got added and he accepted a 2nd time. We can only do so much....

This isn't a babysitting service, instead of looking at the trade we need to look at the GM...

Edited by AriGold, 18 December 2012 - 09:22 PM.

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#1070 Crom!

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:22 PM

You know what they say about assuming....

pretty sure sweefish just saw the deal and said yes

I negotiated with Swee for days with the Ott deal. We had another one in place for a similar player but the player wouldn't waive his NTC.
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#1071 Sidney Crosby.

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:23 PM

even though their actual skill is well below


I don't necessarily believe that Kuhnhackl "actual skill is well bellow" (61CK, 68SK, 64SC, 64DF).

Interesting how a trade involving a top 4 defenceman and some picks and prospects has drawn so much activity to the league.
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#1072 canucklax

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:25 PM

The trade was accepted after it was vetoed the 1st time (Sundstrom was added).

This isn't a babysitting service, instead of looking at the trade we need to look at the GM...

If kuhnhakl, a 2nd and a 4th were deemed good enough for goligoski then I agree the GM definitely needs to be reviewed
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#1073 Dion Phaneuf

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:27 PM

Anyone want Komisarek or Gomez? I'll give them to you for your worst prospect :). Not like you're going to get one of the good free agents anyways. :P
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#1074 AriGold

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:29 PM

If kuhnhakl, a 2nd and a 4th were deemed good enough for goligoski then I agree the GM definitely needs to be reviewed

Not that it changes much but its two 2nd rounders and Kuhnhakl.
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#1075 *VaNcOuVeRCaNuCkS*

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:45 PM

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I have been watching the thread today and taking in what people have to say

When the trade was presented to ARI he immediately added SOB and myself we talked about it and concluded that this trade wasn't going through as presented

ARI relayed this info to both GM'S and told them the trade either needs to be reworked or a piece needs to be added

The trade came back to ARI and Sundstrom was added, at this point we felt enough was added and the trade was allowed to happen

Goligoski is not an elite dman like some have said as I would consider him a top 2 on some teams or maybe a top 3 on others

I also believe there was some better deals on the table for Goligoski and in the end Swee took this offer the trade will stand and please other GM'S take note of this and please assess your players value prior to trading him that way you are not caught off guard by an average offer
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#1076 canucklax

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 10:26 PM

http://tinychat.com/sths
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#1077 Caboose

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 12:40 AM

The Hobbit was tooooooo sick.
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#1078 Baercheese

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 12:44 AM

Updates on the re-rates? Holiday season and all so it's understandable, just want to know the progress!
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Edler, Markstrom, Hansen, 2nd round pick 2014 to Islanders for Ryan Strome, 5th overall pick 2014

This is fairly even as well.

 


#1079 *VaNcOuVeRCaNuCkS*

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 12:49 AM

For the first bit of re rates all GM's that were helping me had finals to deal with since they are over things should pick up now

Once I have inputted half of the teams ratings into STHS I will update the site for you guys to see

We are fairly close to that and like what was said above Christmas is coming so things will slow down a little and then things should pick up after
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#1080 Chimon

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:21 AM

I've finished my exams but still have one more assignment left. I'll try to get a few team re-rates done this week. Will be away on the 23rd though.
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