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#1 eretz canucks

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:38 PM

For the millionth time here is a trade proposal that involves Florida...I'm bored and I truly feel that we need help at center after seeing schroeder live a fee times. There was a rumour a while ago that Tallon would move NB if he could Schroeder or Hansen back. I'm sure Gillis shot that down because Schroeder finished off so well last year in the AHL. After seeing him, I think he is very expendable, hope Tallin still wants him. As for Hansen, he won't realize his full potential here but we would have to get more back if we moved him. We are in a window here so moving him is not a great idea.


To FLA

Luongo
Schroeder
Sauve

To VAN

Bjugstad
Clemensen
3rd



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#2 Peaches

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:41 PM

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Looks like the other 999, 999 Luongo proposals to me.


(but I doubt Tallon does it).
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#3 CanucksFanMike

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:17 PM

Take out Schroeder and the 3rd and get er done MG!
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#4 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:49 PM

We overpay.

And Florida doesn't want to trade Bjugstad.

So no for both sides.
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#5 Jaku

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 12:05 AM

We overpay. And Florida doesn't want to trade Bjugstad. So no for both sides.


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#6 Gollumpus

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 12:38 AM

For the millionth time here is a trade proposal that involves Florida...I'm bored and I truly feel that we need help at center after seeing schroeder live a fee times. There was a rumour a while ago that Tallon would move NB if he could Schroeder or Hansen back. I'm sure Gillis shot that down because Schroeder finished off so well last year in the AHL. After seeing him, I think he is very expendable, hope Tallin still wants him. As for Hansen, he won't realize his full potential here but we would have to get more back if we moved him. We are in a window here so moving him is not a great idea.


To FLA

Luongo
Schroeder
Sauve

To VAN

Bjugstad
Clemensen
3rd


If we're worried about windows then Bjugstad is not the guy the Canucks need right now. To my recollection he is committed to his college team for at least this year, and could stay there the season following. He's definately an acquisition with the future in mind. And this is what I suspect the Luongo deal will become, a deal for the future rather than a deal for now (at least for this current season, assuming it actually happens).

I agree with others who have suggested that the Panthers either won't trade Bjugstad, or they will force a very high price in order to make the deal. I suspect Gillis will pass, but not until after a very long battle of wills. Further, I suspect that Tallon will not easily part with any of his top-6 talent. Doing so would be counter productive to what he is trying to do, and the Panthers are somewhat better than the Leafs in goal, so the pressure on him to get Luongo is somewhat less.

The Panthers do have other fairly valuable assets which will likely be made available in order to distract Gillis away from Bjugstad. Alex Petrovic (D) is one such possibilty. Jonathan Huberdeau © is another. There are also a number of younger roster players with the Panthers who might be good pick ups: Ellerby (D), Kulikov (D), Matthias ©.

Assuming Gillis wants to stick with his goal of an impact roster player, a top prospect and a 1st then he could be waiting a while. If he does want to close it out a bit faster he may have to bend and while he's doing that, bend Tallon as well. another thing which could influence what Gillis goes after is whether or not he has made any attempt to sign Arnott. Should this be the case, and Arnott does sign here, Gillis will likely not have any worries about his 3C (assuming Arnott does well) and will devote his energy elsewhere, and this combined with a very short season could turn the Luongo deal into a "for futures" trade.

I don't expect to see anyone wanting to trade their 1st for 2013, but a 2014 could be in the picture.

How about:

To Florida: Luongo, 2014 2nd, perhaps a mid-level prospect

To Vancouver: Clemmensen, Petrovic, Huberdeau, 2014 1st,

The Canucks don't get any "now" help in this deal (other than Clemmensen as the back-up), so I suppose it relies on Gillis picking up Arnott for the 3C. Petrovic looks like he is going to be a good d-man (also plays the right side) and could be ready in a year or two.. Huberdeau could become a top-6 center on this team in years to come. Right now, he's still a bit small and needs some time in the AHL.

regards,
G.
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#7 JHansenFan

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 01:33 AM

@ "G."

I fail to see how you think that NB is an untouchable where as Huberdeau can be used as trade bait. This is what's wrong with 95% of every trade proposal you see. Fans such as yourself underestimate the value of other team's prospects or players, yet inflate the value of a goalie like Luongo to 100x his realistic value. Huberdeau is penciled in as one of FLA top center's for the next generation at least. You also want Florida to give up another prospect in Petrovic, as well as a first? I'm sorry that just makes absolutely no sense for Florida. Makes all the sense in the world for Vancouver though. Huberdeau is not what is defined as a top prospect. He is more like a star prospect. Your proposal makes no sense, and you really need to actually find out who the hell Huberdeau is.

Edited by JHansenFan, 23 November 2012 - 01:35 AM.

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#8 JHansenFan

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 01:36 AM

regards,
H.
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#9 Gollumpus

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 06:53 AM

@ "G."

I fail to see how you think that NB is an untouchable where as Huberdeau can be used as trade bait. This is what's wrong with 95% of every trade proposal you see. Fans such as yourself underestimate the value of other team's prospects or players, yet inflate the value of a goalie like Luongo to 100x his realistic value. Huberdeau is penciled in as one of FLA top center's for the next generation at least. You also want Florida to give up another prospect in Petrovic, as well as a first? I'm sorry that just makes absolutely no sense for Florida. Makes all the sense in the world for Vancouver though. Huberdeau is not what is defined as a top prospect. He is more like a star prospect. Your proposal makes no sense, and you really need to actually find out who the hell Huberdeau is.


You seem a bit ambivalent in your opinion. C'mon. don't be shy and tell me what you really think. :)

For purposes of getting going some discussion on the original post, I entered my somewhat optimistic suggestion. Sadly, I did not get any discussion, merely attitude. Oh well.

I am aware of who Huberdeau is, sorry, "who the hell Huberdeau is". Really.... no. really.

Yes, really.

What I was looking to do was to introduce the idea that if Tallon wants to make certain assets untouchable then he leaves open other assets for discussion. Would Gillis get exactly what I suggested? Possibly, but only if Tallon didn't know "who the hell Huberdeau is", and since he drafted the kid I suspect that that is unlikely.

Further, as I believe I mentioned, the longer the lockout continues the more likely it will be that Gillis will start to look at this deal as one for the future. If, for example, the other team is only interested in offering roster players who would be the equivalent of trade deadline rentals or only capable of playing on the 3rd line (at best), why would Gillis want to include them in a deal for Luongo? Do a side deal and pick up the guy up for lower picks and/or prospects and get something really meaty in the main deal.


Looking at the roster players of the Panthers, what do they really have that Gillis would want, and that Tallon would want to move without screwing his club in an even worse way than it is already? The Canucks' team needs are mostly a top-6 RW and a 3C, yes? At RW, if Tallon moved Versteeg (for example) in a deal for Luongo then the Panthers top-6 are less effective in a major way. Who cares if you can now stop more goals (having Luongo in the net) if you can't score even at the rather woeful pace which the Panthers managed last season? The only other RW in which Gillis might be interested is Upshall, and he has a NMC/Modified NTC which might prohibit him being included in a trade. There's also Mueller, but with the acquisition of Kassian I suspect that Gillis won't want the guy.

And speaking of Kassian, while it is a bit optimistic (yes, a constant failing of mine), maybe the team could just decide to play Kassian at 2RW for the balance of the shortened season, and see if there's an impact rental at the trade deadline who can be had for cheap.

At 3C, a lot of what will happen could depend on whether Gillis has put out an offer for Arnott, and/or whether Gillis will do a different deal with another team (even as late as the trade deadline). and/or whether he and AV just decide to stay with the guys that are already here (Malhotra, Lapierre, Schroeder, Ebbet). The Panthers do have some guys (Goc, Matthias, Santorelli) who could fill in at 3C for Vancouver but none of them are really what I'd call a centerpiece in a deal of the sort being discussed.

With the above in mind, I don't see Gillis expressing a lot of interest in the roster players of the Panthers which would likely be made available to him.

So, with roster players a bit of a no go (in my opinion), picks and prospects are what Gillis has to look forward to getting from Tallon. I already mentioned that if Tallon was willing to surrender a first it would likely not be for 2013, so I suggested the 1st for 2014. Do you think he would give up the 2013 1st?

Prospects.

Is it the number of prospects I was suggesting Gillis could get that is bugging you, or merely that I had the temerity to include "who the hell Huberdeau"? If you feel Tallon would hand over Bjugstad in place of Huberdeau then I would be perfectly happy to take him. I prefer Bjugstad due to his size and he's got a pretty good skill-set.


Looking back at Gillis' wish list, he wanted an impact roster player, a top prospect and a 1st.

I resolved the 1st by having Gillis do Tallon a favour and accepting the 2014 1st.

For the top-prospect, I guess we can agree that Bjugstad would be a good acquisition, and once again, Gillis is doing Tallon a favour by accepting Bjugstad over Huberdeau.

For the roster position, Tallon really has nother to offer. I suggested a second top prospect (Petrovic) in place of a guy who could help the team now. If you want to replace Petrovic with Versteeg (and do you really believe that Tallon would trade him?) then I'm okay with that as well.

Clemmensen was included partly as small cap dump for Tallon, and also doing him the favour of getting rid of another contract which he no longer would need with the acquisition of Luongo. That Gillis, what a great guy.

To Florida: Luongo, 2014 2nd, perhaps a mid-level prospect


To Vancouver: Clemmensen, Petrovic, Bjugstad, 2014 1st,


regards,
G.

Edited by Gollumpus, 23 November 2012 - 06:54 AM.

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#10 Gollumpus

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 06:53 AM

regards,
H.


Politeness matters. :)

regards,
G.
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#11 JHansenFan

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 02:39 PM

You seem a bit ambivalent in your opinion. C'mon. don't be shy and tell me what you really think. :)

For purposes of getting going some discussion on the original post, I entered my somewhat optimistic suggestion. Sadly, I did not get any discussion, merely attitude. Oh well.

I am aware of who Huberdeau is, sorry, "who the hell Huberdeau is". Really.... no. really.

Yes, really.

What I was looking to do was to introduce the idea that if Tallon wants to make certain assets untouchable then he leaves open other assets for discussion. Would Gillis get exactly what I suggested? Possibly, but only if Tallon didn't know "who the hell Huberdeau is", and since he drafted the kid I suspect that that is unlikely.

regards,
G.


This is going to be my quick summary. I don't believe Florida is the ideal trading partner in terms of assests. Florida is trying to win now, but they aren't looking to pay an arm and a foot in terms of prospects with Huberdeau and Bjugstad along with a 1st and another prospects (ie. Petrovic). If you need further proof of that, they don't have any roster players we really need, and they have a budding star goaltender in Markstrom. I assume GM's in the NHL are smart enough to see that if they wait a year for Markstrom to develop they can keep a potential two way top six forward, a 1st round pick, a roster player, and also another potential NHL'er. The reason i have an issue with your post is that if you think that Huberdeau is available when Bjugstad is not... that is just comedy.

P.S. You also stated that the package was Gillis's "wish" list. That means he probably won't be getting everything in the package much less a top 3 pick in a good draft, a 1st, and two top tier prospects.
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#12 Gollumpus

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 06:14 PM

This is going to be my quick summary. I don't believe Florida is the ideal trading partner in terms of assests. Florida is trying to win now, but they aren't looking to pay an arm and a foot in terms of prospects with Huberdeau and Bjugstad along with a 1st and another prospects (ie. Petrovic). If you need further proof of that, they don't have any roster players we really need, and they have a budding star goaltender in Markstrom. I assume GM's in the NHL are smart enough to see that if they wait a year for Markstrom to develop they can keep a potential two way top six forward, a 1st round pick, a roster player, and also another potential NHL'er. The reason i have an issue with your post is that if you think that Huberdeau is available when Bjugstad is not... that is just comedy.


I agree with you about Florida not being the ideal trading partner, and I'm also not that crazy about the Leafs.

My post was in connection to the proposal by the OP. Were Tallon to give up the kinds of assets which Gillis claims he wants for Luongo (a top-6 forward, a top prospect and a 1st) he would be creating holes in his team. The only Florida RW who might be sought after is Versteeg, and if he goes it weakens their chances of scoring any goals. This is why I was putting out the suggestion that Gillis could try to turn the deal into one for the future with a team such as the Panthers (as well as the Leafs). And if they want to hold on to their current top players then they would have to consider giving up something elsewhere, such as prospects if they did want Luongo.

My suggestion of including Huberdeau rather than Bjugstad is that of the two, Bjugstad would be more valuable in the sense that he is the closest to being NHL ready (from what I've seen). This is an important factor in trades such as this. It would be one of the reasons why Gillis would covet Bjugstad even if he wanted Huberdeau, and it would be one reason why Tallon would want to keep him. Personally, for the Canucks needs, I think Bjugstad is the better fit. Huberdeau was inserted just to change things up. If you want to remove him from the discussion I have no problem with this.

BTW, while neither of us really believe Florida is the best fit as a trading partner, what would you see as a reasonable trade that sends Luongo to the Panthers?


As far as actual trading trading partners, I'm thinking that if the Flyers can somehow get rid of Bryzgalov's contract they will make a play for Luongo. They have a number of assets who could help the Canucks. The other possibility is that TB could re-enter the fray. They do have some depth at RW, which is one area where the Canucks are lacking.

Anyone outside of the TB, the Panthers or the Leafs strike your fancy?


P.S. You also stated that the package was Gillis's "wish" list. That means he probably won't be getting everything in the package much less a top 3 pick in a good draft, a 1st, and two top tier prospects.


Agree.

This is another part of why I think Gillis might try and turn the deal into one for the future. As I mentioned earlier, if the other team doesn't want to screw up their chances for right now (because of a lack of assets), they will have to pay from their future. As far as a deal with Florida, assuming this is the team Gillis goes with, I see a deal similar to that below (proposed on the 23rd):

To Florida: Luongo, 2014 2nd, perhaps a mid-level prospect

To Vancouver: Bjugstad, Petrovic, 2014 1st, Clemmensen

Tallon gets to keep all of his top-6 talent and he gives up a Bjugstad in place of a roster player. Petrovic counts as the top prospect. Tallon gets to keep his 2013 1st and gives up a 1st in 2014. Tallon also gets a contract/salary dump (Clemmensen) to get rid of an extra body he would no longer need with the addition of Luongo.

Tallon gets to keep two things he might otherwise have to give up and he gets a salary/contract dump.

regards,
G.

Edited by Gollumpus, 25 November 2012 - 06:19 PM.

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#13 JHansenFan

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:28 AM

I just want to start off with talking about the realistic value of Luongo at this moment. He is an aging goaltender, who has his best years behind him and is signed to a massive long term contract that requires teams to make a long term commitment to. Vancouver management minus as well have crowned Cory Schneider as our top goaltender, after resigning him to a deal this summer. We can't afford to blow a good 1/6th of our cap on just simply goaltending. Most teams that are playoff ready have a solid goaltender, and the rebuilding one's most likely have one that they themselves have crowned as a successor to their current starting goaltender. Luongo has a limited NTC/NMC so he has leverage in where he wants to go, so if MG negotiates with someone, and the negotiations get serious... then the other GM will obviously know that Luongo has agreed to go there if a deal is struck. The fantasy is that MG is happy with having both goaltenders on our team, but the reality is that I doubt either Cory or Roberto will be happy being the backup or having to split games. This is why the trade value of Luongo will never be a price such as Bjugstad+impact roster player+prospect+1st(in any year).

I don't ever see us making this deal with Florida realistically without us getting Bjugstad. However saying that I don't think he's available and Tallon is trying to push MG to accept pieces such as Howden(Fan of his), Petrovic, and a bunch of other spare parts. As for the Huberdeau argument, one could argue that Huberdeau did nearly make it to the NHL last year, and all Florida wanted him to do was add a bit of strength to his frame. The problem I have with your view's on this deal is I personally believe that Tallon is not willing to part with either prospect, and is unrealistic to add on more value coming to the Canucks when he won't even part with Bjugstad. Following up with Versteeg, I don't believe he is the right fit here. This might be a little bias, but I believe in order for Versteeg to succeed the team needs to be in a large part more about him for him to score. From the reviews I have read over multiple boards, he is as other fans would describe it as a douche and a cancer to any team. Add the little cherry on top with the whole rivalry with Vancouver and Chicago, and I believe he's not a good fit at all here.

In order for Luongo to be traded, I think we should look at a deal realistically with Toronto. They have assets such as Carter Ashton, James Reimer, and could offer something like Jerry D'aimgo to top it off. That doesn't look like the best package for Luongo, and yes I agree. However Canucks fans have to accept reality.... in the sense that we will not be getting a top prospect, an impact roster player, and a prospect or pick. This deal is most certainly bias, as I have always loved Ashton as a player, and D'aimgo is starting to really build up towards his potential. The Leafs are definitely the better trade option at the moment and the big reason for that is because they have no starting goaltender, and no good goalie prospect that looks to be able to be that solid NHL starter (Justin Pogge anyone?).

Overall I agree with at least 75% of your argument, and the points i don't agree with are probably personal preference. However the only thing that irks me is the fact that you wanted to replace Bjugstad with Huberdeau... whether or not it was to change up the discussion or not. I understand that every fan has their own perspectives on certain players, but I just had to assume that most people would understand that Huberdeau is FLA's top prospect, and there is no way that Florida will willingly part with him. A Vancouver-Toronto trade seems most likely, as they have assets that we would want, have cap space, lack a starting goaltender, and are starting to build a team that could make the playoffs if they didn't have as many holes in crease as a twenty year old pipe.
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#14 Gollumpus

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 11:53 PM

Well, let me say this about that...

I just want to start off with talking about the realistic value of Luongo at this moment. He is an aging goaltender, who has his best years behind him...


Luongo is 33, possibly 34 when the NHL starts playing again. This being said, goalies do age differently in the NHL, and an elite player who is a goalie has a better chance of playing as long (or maybe even longer than) an elite skater.

I would say that "most" of Luongo's best years are behind him. I believe he still has at least 3 - 4 very good years left in him, and after that, he won't be head and shoulders above most of the other goalies in the NHL, he'll merely be a head above most of the other goalies in the NHL. This being said, depending upon the team to which he goes, the quality of the defense will help determine just how good Luongo will be. Luongo playing with the Leafs will be looked on as being a less effective goalie Luongo playing with the Canucks.

...and is signed to a massive long term contract that requires teams to make a long term commitment to.


So? Luongo plays for 4 - 5 years with his new team. At that time he could retire. If does retire, the Canucks would be on the hook for his contract. If Luongo didn't retire, and the new team wanted him off their books, they could trade Luongo. There is an option in his contract to allow this. Further, there is no guarantee that Luongo keeps his NTC at all once he is moved. They do not allows follow in the deal,

Who would want Luongo? There are lots of teams who currently would like a player who's salary is less than his cap hit. By that time, Luongo will be making about $2 million less than his very reasonable cap hit, and the gap gets greater each year.


Vancouver management minus as well have crowned Cory Schneider as our top goaltender, after resigning him to a deal this summer. We can't afford to blow a good 1/6th of our cap on just simply goaltending.


And where's the issue for the short term? The Canucks are currently about $2.5 million under the cap, as it currently sits. Will the Canucks' interests be better served by moving Luongo? Yes. Does he have to be moved 1 second after the new CBA is signed? No. And does he have to be traded for a significant amount less than his worth? No.


Most teams that are playoff ready have a solid goaltender, and the rebuilding one's most likely have one that they themselves have crowned as a successor to their current starting goaltender.


There are a number of teams which are in need of a goalie. Depending upon what happens with the new CBA, the list could change. If the Flyers were able to get out of Bryzgalov's contract then they may well make a call to Gillis. Teams like Florida have Markstrom, but how NHL ready is he? TB picked up Lindback, who has a grand total of 38 NHL games.
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#15 Gollumpus

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 11:57 PM

Luongo has a limited NTC/NMC so he has leverage in where he wants to go, so if MG negotiates with someone, and the negotiations get serious... then the other GM will obviously know that Luongo has agreed to go there if a deal is struck.


I believe that Luongo also wants to win a Cup before he calls it a career. To my mind, this expands the number of teams to which Luongo would accept a trade. The Leafs, TB and Florida are not likely to seriously challenge for a Cup in the near future. If, as I previously mentioned, if a team like the Flyers came calling I think Luongo would listen. This being said, I also believe that Luongo knows his time in Vancouver is pretty much over, and would accept a trade even if the only option was to a non-playoff contender.

However, if he stayed here for one more year, contributed to the team (even as a "back-up") and won a Cup, I think he'd okay with that as well.


The fantasy is that MG is happy with having both goaltenders on our team, but the reality is that I doubt either Cory or Roberto will be happy being the backup or having to split games. This is why the trade value of Luongo will never be a price such as Bjugstad+impact roster player+prospect+1st(in any year).


Hmm, so you buy a new car and you still have the old one. You have a two car garage, so you have a place to keep it. You're also not strapped for cash. You try to sell the old car, but the only offers are well below the book price of the car. Do you sell it at a ridiculously low price or do you hold on to it in anticipation of better offers?

The fantasy is not that MG is happy with having both goaltenders. The fantasy is that MG has to move one of them as soon as he is capable and that he has to take a crappy deal in order to make the deal happen. Big difference.
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#16 Gollumpus

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 11:57 PM

I don't ever see us making this deal with Florida realistically without us getting Bjugstad. However saying that I don't think he's available and Tallon is trying to push MG to accept pieces such as Howden(Fan of his), Petrovic, and a bunch of other spare parts.


With Gillis' "impact player, top prospect and a 1st" comment in mind, I also do not see the Canucks doing a deal with Florida if he tries to hold Tallon to that request. About the only roster player the Canucks might be interested in could be Versteeg, due to age, ability, cap hit and position. This is why Tallon would not want to let him go. But if he still wants Luongo the only way Tallon can do it is by giving up a better asset in a different area.

Since the choice for a 1st can either be a 2013 1st or one from a later year, there isn't much that can be done here. The only area that Tallon can really improve his offer is through prospects. To me, this suggests that Tallon would have to give up at least two "top" prospects to make up for the lack of an impact roster player, and what he prefer was a 1st in 2014 rather than 2013.


As for the Huberdeau argument, one could argue that Huberdeau did nearly make it to the NHL last year, and all Florida wanted him to do was add a bit of strength to his frame. The problem I have with your view's on this deal is I personally believe that Tallon is not willing to part with either prospect, and is unrealistic to add on more value coming to the Canucks when he won't even part with Bjugstad.


Tallon will have to decide if he really does want Luongo, and if he does, he'll have to find a way to make Gillis say yes. To my mind, the only way he can do this is with a deal which includes a 1st (likely 2014), and two very good prospects. I'd be okay with Petrovic being one of them. After that, I'd say Gillis will hold firm on Bjugstad.


Following up with Versteeg, I don't believe he is the right fit here. This might be a little bias, but I believe in order for Versteeg to succeed the team needs to be in a large part more about him for him to score. From the reviews I have read over multiple boards, he is as other fans would describe it as a douche and a cancer to any team. Add the little cherry on top with the whole rivalry with Vancouver and Chicago, and I believe he's not a good fit at all here.


Sound points. This being said, I see the main reason Versteeg will likely not be a Canuck is that Tallon really cannot afford to let him go without someone else to replace him on in the top-6.


In order for Luongo to be traded, I think we should look at a deal realistically with Toronto. They have assets such as Carter Ashton, James Reimer, and could offer something like Jerry D'aimgo to top it off. That doesn't look like the best package for Luongo, and yes I agree. However Canucks fans have to accept reality.... in the sense that we will not be getting a top prospect, an impact roster player, and a prospect or pick. This deal is most certainly bias, as I have always loved Ashton as a player, and D'aimgo is starting to really build up towards his potential. The Leafs are definitely the better trade option at the moment and the big reason for that is because they have no starting goaltender, and no good goalie prospect that looks to be able to be that solid NHL starter (Justin Pogge anyone?).


I see dealing with Toronto as dealing with Florida. The "good" roster assets are too valuable to the success of the team and if they were sent out in a deal with the Canucks then Burke is in automatic re-build mode, which would make no sense.

It's just a different set of prospects from which to choose in dealing with the Leafs. Colborne, Ashton, Biggs, perhaps some of their d-man prospects could be useful, but why would the Canucks want Reimer? They appear to be pretty well stacked with their own goalie prospects (Lack, Cannata).


Overall I agree with at least 75% of your argument, and the points i don't agree with are probably personal preference. However the only thing that irks me is the fact that you wanted to replace Bjugstad with Huberdeau... whether or not it was to change up the discussion or not.


As a special favour to you, I will never include Huberdeau in a trade proposal ever again... unless it's a really good deal.

A Vancouver-Toronto trade seems most likely, as they have assets that we would want, have cap space, lack a starting goaltender, and are starting to build a team that could make the playoffs if they didn't have as many holes in crease as a twenty year old pipe.


I wouldn't write off the Bolts just yet. They have a number of assets available to trade for Luongo, such as: Purcell, Aulie and a 2014 1st.


regards,
G.
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#17 JHansenFan

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 01:19 AM

The Canucks want Reimer because MG wants a goaltender back who can maybe play 20+ games or so if Schneider really can't handle the pressure of being a Starting goaltender. Although Reimer wouldn't be the best available in terms of being a backup goaltender, he holds value in that he will be able to play some games. Again from a Canucks perspective we don't need goaltender prospects, just simply someone to tide us over until Lack is ready for NHL duty. The difference between the Leafs and the Panthers is that the Leafs have a decent core together (as weird as that is) and all they are looking for is a goaltender in order to help them over that hump. Florida on the other hand is just waiting for the arrival of Markstrom, and they looked okay in net in terms of last season. Markstrom will be ready this year or next year in my opinion, and if he is all that he's put out to be... the Panthers will be fine without grabbing Luongo. I just don't think Tampa is the partner that the Canucks want since they just acquired Lindback and they seem confident enough with him in net. However their tone may change if Lindback falters when the NHL season finally does begin.
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#18 JHansenFan

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 01:33 AM

sorry double post :(

Edited by JHansenFan, 01 December 2012 - 01:33 AM.

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#19 SkeeterHansen

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 02:45 AM

Politeness matters. :)

regards,
G.


Your CDC-patented "regards, G" has always made me think you're an old guy.

No disrespect meant, just an observation..
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/=S=/


#20 Gollumpus

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:29 AM

The Canucks want Reimer because MG wants a goaltender back who can maybe play 20+ games or so if Schneider really can't handle the pressure of being a Starting goaltender. Although Reimer wouldn't be the best available in terms of being a backup goaltender, he holds value in that he will be able to play some games.


I suspect that if Gillis is looking for a back-up he'd strongly consider Dan Ellis. The guy is a solid veteran goalie who has put up some pretty good numbers over his career, and he's even said he'd like to play here. Further, he can likely be had for about the same cap hit as Reimer.

If the Canucks were to get Reimer, I suspect Gillis would trade for him in a side deal, rather than as part of a Luongo deal. Even as a cap/contract dump in a Luongo deal to Toronto there are other options available. And I think Gillis would like to hold on to Reimer.

Another reason Gillis wouldn't want Reimer is the possibility that the guy could be a project considering his time with the Leafs. I think Gillis would want a guy who can be plug-and-play, not a guy who may require a lot of coaching. Reimer may well become a very good goalie, but I'd prefer he learn to do so (and get his head straight after his Leafs experience) on some other team where he'd have a future, rather than here where he'd always be the back-up to Schneider. His future here would likely be that he gets traded in 2014 when he's in RFA territory.


Again from a Canucks perspective we don't need goaltender prospects, just simply someone to tide us over until Lack is ready for NHL duty. The difference between the Leafs and the Panthers is that the Leafs have a decent core together (as weird as that is) and all they are looking for is a goaltender in order to help them over that hump. Florida on the other hand is just waiting for the arrival of Markstrom, and they looked okay in net in terms of last season. Markstrom will be ready this year or next year in my opinion, and if he is all that he's put out to be... the Panthers will be fine without grabbing Luongo.


I see Reimer as still being a prospect/project (as mentioned earlier). The only reason he might be considered otherwise is that he has been thrown into the fire and told to sink or swim (how's that for mixed metaphors?) at a much younger age than a lot of other goalies.

Getting a goalie back in a Luongo deal makes sense to the Canucks if the other team were Florida (Theodore/Clemmensen) or TB (Garon) where the goalie who might be coming back this way is a solid veteran who can act as a capable back-up and quiet mentor to Schneider, should he need a different perspective on things.

While you might believe that Florida will be okay without Luongo, I'm not sure that Tallon agrees with your opinion. If he did, why would have expressed any interest in Luongo considering all of the issues with contract term and cap hit? :) Also, there have been a couple of problems with Markstrom's knees which have slowed his development.


I just don't think Tampa is the partner that the Canucks want since they just acquired Lindback and they seem confident enough with him in net. However their tone may change if Lindback falters when the NHL season finally does begin.


Yup. I'm betting TB is still in the hunt. I don't see them going far with a starting goalie who has as many starts as Schneider has wins.

regards,
G.
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#21 Gollumpus

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:30 AM

Your CDC-patented "regards, G" has always made me think you're an old guy.

No disrespect meant, just an observation..


Yeah, well stay offa' my lawn, and turn down that crazy rock'n'roll music.... :P

PS - any thoughts or observations on our little discussion here? :)


regards,
G.

Edited by Gollumpus, 01 December 2012 - 09:32 AM.

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#22 Hamhuis2

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 12:30 PM

Reading through these posts, I agree with many things being said here. One thing that I do not agree with however is that Bjugstad is more NHL ready than Huberdeau. Florida has committed Bjugstad to stay in college for this year, and there is a strong chance he will remain there again next year. Huberdeau had a strong enough camp last year to make their team, but they didn't want to rush him into their lineup(much to the suprise of everyone) so he played junior. He will be a top-6 forward for them once the season starts up(whenever that may be). Remember, he was a #3 overall pick. While Bjugstad is maybe a top 20 prospect in the league, Huberdeau is surely a top 5/10.

Personally, my "realistic" Luongo trade would be something like this:

Lu+Schroeder

For

Bjugstad+Clemmenson+2nd

Or

Lu+Schroeder+3rd

For

Bjugstad+Petrovic+Clemmenson

Edited by Hamhuis2, 01 December 2012 - 12:31 PM.

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#23 Gollumpus

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 01:46 PM

Reading through these posts, I agree with many things being said here. One thing that I do not agree with however is that Bjugstad is more NHL ready than Huberdeau. Florida has committed Bjugstad to stay in college for this year, and there is a strong chance he will remain there again next year. Huberdeau had a strong enough camp last year to make their team, but they didn't want to rush him into their lineup(much to the suprise of everyone) so he played junior. He will be a top-6 forward for them once the season starts up(whenever that may be). Remember, he was a #3 overall pick. While Bjugstad is maybe a top 20 prospect in the league, Huberdeau is surely a top 5/10.

Personally, my "realistic" Luongo trade would be something like this:

Lu+Schroeder

For

Bjugstad+Clemmenson+2nd

Or

Lu+Schroeder+3rd

For

Bjugstad+Petrovic+Clemmenson


True enough about Bjugstad, but just to clarify the point, being committed to college hockey doesn't mean he is less NHL ready, but rather that he is committed to college hockey.

I suppose my primary thought about the two is that Huberdeau is not a big guy (although he does have a large amount of talent), while Bjugstad is what I would prefer Gillis to get. Bjugstad is a guy with size who knows how to use it, has skating ability, skill with lots of scoring potential. He fits better with my view of the type of team Gillis is now looking to create.

regards,
G.
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#24 King of the ES

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:10 PM

How about:

To Florida: Luongo, 2014 2nd, perhaps a mid-level prospect

To Vancouver: Clemmensen, Petrovic, Huberdeau, 2014 1st,


:lol:

Seriously, this is a joke, right?

Right?
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#25 King of the ES

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:17 PM

Hmm, so you buy a new car and you still have the old one. You have a two car garage, so you have a place to keep it. You're also not strapped for cash. You try to sell the old car, but the only offers are well below the book price of the car. Do you sell it at a ridiculously low price or do you hold on to it in anticipation of better offers?

The fantasy is not that MG is happy with having both goaltenders. The fantasy is that MG has to move one of them as soon as he is capable and that he has to take a crappy deal in order to make the deal happen. Big difference.


Just like your new car, Luongo's value is headed in one direction - down. The longer we hold on to him, the more difficult it'll be to move him.
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#26 King of the ES

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:21 PM

I wouldn't write off the Bolts just yet. They have a number of assets available to trade for Luongo, such as: Purcell, Aulie and a 2014 1st.


Yes, that was your earlier insane proposal, almost as insane as Huberdeau/Petrovic/Clemmensen/1st.

Rumor has it that TB was eager to land Schneider. When it became clear that Vancouver was going to be trading Luongo, instead, they went out and got Lindback. What's the point in TB paying the price of 2 2nd round picks, and a 3rd, to acquire someone to be their backup?

Edited by King of the ES, 01 December 2012 - 03:25 PM.

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#27 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:23 PM

To Florida: Luongo, 2014 2nd, perhaps a mid-level prospect

To Vancouver: Clemmensen, Petrovic, Huberdeau, 2014 1st,
G.

How about Florida Panthers completely undermine their rebuild and trade away their cheap young bluechip prospects and picks for an aging goalie who has never shown the ability to win when they weren't looking for a goalie in the first place?
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#28 King of the ES

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:24 PM

The Canucks want Reimer because MG wants a goaltender back who can maybe play 20+ games or so if Schneider really can't handle the pressure of being a Starting goaltender. Although Reimer wouldn't be the best available in terms of being a backup goaltender, he holds value in that he will be able to play some games.


I like a lot of what you've said in this thread, but acquiring Reimer would not make sense. There needs to be a clear divide between starter and backup, especially with a 1st time starter in place like Schneider. What's wrong with Dan Ellis? James Reimer is basically the NHL's version of Tim Tebow. Would make no sense to acquire him.
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#29 King of the ES

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:30 PM

I suppose my primary thought about the two is that Huberdeau is not a big guy (although he does have a large amount of talent), while Bjugstad is what I would prefer Gillis to get. Bjugstad is a guy with size who knows how to use it, has skating ability, skill with lots of scoring potential. He fits better with my view of the type of team Gillis is now looking to create.


Boy, you are really are on a roll today.

You're saying that because Jonathan Huberdeau "is not a big guy", you'd rather have Nick Bjugstad? This Eric Lindros-fueled wet dream with guys who are 6'4" is amazing. I would venture a guess that 0/30 NHL GMs would agree with you in wanting Bjugstad over Huberdeau.
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#30 Pears

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:37 PM

Yes, that was your earlier insane proposal, almost as insane as Huberdeau/Petrovic/Clemmensen/1st.

Rumor has it that TB was eager to land Schneider. When it became clear that Vancouver was going to be trading Luongo, instead, they went out and got Lindback. What's the point in TB paying the price of 2 2nd round picks, and a 3rd, to acquire someone to be their backup?

Only King would think a proposal that is completley fair is 'insane'. Need I remind you who it was that proposed Luongo and Ballard for Paajarvi?
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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