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Justin Trudeau - Suffering from Foot in Mouth - Canadian Style


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#31 Common sense

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 02:45 PM

It admittedly sounds pretty bad, but this is basically him trying to regain ground in Quebec, its unlikely that he was going to win any seats in Alberta anyways.


But why give fodder for the Tories or anyone in general?
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#32 ronthecivil

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 02:47 PM

Actually they did seem to learn. They cut $8 billion in spending once they had a majority as reported three weeks ago.


New year-end numbers reveal the federal government quietly cut spending by $8-billion after Canadians handed the Conservatives a majority mandate.


The Conservatives fought an election over their 2011 budget plan, which was first introduced in March of that year before the opposition parties defeated the minority government. The same budget was re-introduced in June of 2011 after voters gave Prime Minister Stephen Harper a majority.


The 2011 budget was not billed as a cost-cutting budget, but the Public Accounts year-end figures, tabled Tuesday, reveal Ottawa quickly scrapped its spending script.


After winning its first majority government, the Conservative government appears to have targeted the infrastructure-heavy stimulus spending the opposition demanded during the recession.

http://www.theglobea...article4786271/


The spending cuts have not been enough to balance the budget and the revenues are artificially high due to a spending boom by Canadians fueled by cheap debt. If we have a double dip global recession (which is all but assured) the deficit will soar and this time there's no interest rates to cut or easy credit to dole out. There's a reason why you can't go five minutes without hearing an add for Alpine Credits or whoever - there's a ton of people already maxed out. Even ZIRP won't be able to re-stimulate the economy this time and if they try it we run the risk of deflation.

We didn't dodge the financial crisis unscathed. We simply delayed it. And like anything of that nature the more you put it off the worse it is.
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#33 Shift-4

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 02:48 PM

Just once I would like to see a politician not dress up in whatever regional or ethnic dress happens to be the most effective for winning whatever vote of the day. It's an admin job not a dress up contest.


Pretty sure both of those pics were taken during the Calgary Stampede....standard dress for the occasion.
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#34 ronthecivil

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 02:55 PM

Pretty sure both of those pics were taken during the Calgary Stampede....standard dress for the occasion.


Maybe if your playing pretend for a photo shoot.

The actual standard dress would be a check shirt that reeks of booze with a nice slept in look hunched over a pancake breakfast on the side of the road not some Roy Rogers play along set.
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#35 Tearloch7

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 02:55 PM

I would rather have Justin with his foot in his mouth, then Steven with his head up his arse .. just saying .. :rolleyes:
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#36 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 03:12 PM

Trudeau has yet to be tested - so far it has been an easy ride.

I seem to recall similar polls early on in the short-lived Ignatieff regime and look what happened there.

Yes, considering he isn't even Liberal leader yet.

Trudeau is far more appealing than Ignatieff to most voters. Esp. women voters. I don't anticipate a 'short-live'd Trudeau regime, as long as he doesn't screw it all up for himself. And no, saying what's what about Alberta two years ago doesn't count. He only needs to worry about how Quebec views him and the rest will sort itself out.


It's amazing that 'Liberal party arrogance' comes into play now when the party has actually been in shambles since Chretien took off. What has there been to be arrogant about? Nothing recent.

To be focusing on Trudeau at this point when he's not even Liberal leader at this point means the Cons are really scared. But then again, they likely should be, as a lot of Canadians are going to prop up Trudeau as their white knight, regardless of what he says or does. All Trudeau has to do is apologize for ancient history remarks and keep his mouth shut from now on. We'll see.
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#37 Wetcoaster

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 03:18 PM

The spending cuts have not been enough to balance the budget and the revenues are artificially high due to a spending boom by Canadians fueled by cheap debt. If we have a double dip global recession (which is all but assured) the deficit will soar and this time there's no interest rates to cut or easy credit to dole out. There's a reason why you can't go five minutes without hearing an add for Alpine Credits or whoever - there's a ton of people already maxed out. Even ZIRP won't be able to re-stimulate the economy this time and if they try it we run the risk of deflation.

We didn't dodge the financial crisis unscathed. We simply delayed it. And like anything of that nature the more you put it off the worse it is.

Your claim was the Conservatives did not learn and were continuing stimulus spending - you were incorrect.

No one claimed Canada dodged the worldwide recession - just that we weathered it better and came out of it earlier than other major industrialized nations.

Might there be another crisis coming down the road? Quite possibly but again that is more attributable to non-domestic factors for the most part.
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#38 goal-ghost

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 03:28 PM

the best part of that interview was when mr.trudeau demonstrated how to intentionally fall down a flight of stairs.

http://video.teleque.../justin-trudeau
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#39 Humble Rodent

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 03:28 PM

But why give fodder for the Tories or anyone in general?

Because it was two years ago and he was running for office in Quebec not Alberta.
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#40 Wetcoaster

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 03:29 PM

Yes, considering he isn't even Liberal leader yet.

Trudeau is far more appealing than Ignatieff to most voters. Esp. women voters. I don't anticipate a 'short-live'd Trudeau regime, as long as he doesn't screw it all up for himself. And no, saying what's what about Alberta two years ago doesn't count. He only needs to worry about how Quebec views him and the rest will sort itself out.


It's amazing that 'Liberal party arrogance' comes into play now when the party has actually been in shambles since Chretien took off. What has there been to be arrogant about? Nothing recent.

To be focusing on Trudeau at this point when he's not even Liberal leader at this point means the Cons are really scared. But then again, they likely should be, as a lot of Canadians are going to prop up Trudeau as their white knight, regardless of what he says or does. All Trudeau has to do is apologize for ancient history remarks and keep his mouth shut from now on. We'll see.

Trudeau is appealing because he has not had to deal with the hard questions yet. His resume is underwhelming.

If Trudeau's performance in the last few days when the heat is being turned up is any indication then the Conservatives are likely to send him down the same road to oblivion they dispatched Dion and Ignatieff.

Chretien's majorities were the beneficiary of the Mulroney meltdown and the PC/Reform split more than any other factors.
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#41 Wetcoaster

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 03:36 PM

Because it was two years ago and he was running for office in Quebec not Alberta.

At the time he had already been elected (2008) in one of the safer Liberal seats in Quebec in the riding of Papineau - in the last 60 years it has been a Liberal stronghold for all but 2 years when the BQ had a short run there in 2006-08.
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#42 ronthecivil

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 03:38 PM

Your claim was the Conservatives did not learn and were continuing stimulus spending - you were incorrect.

No one claimed Canada dodged the worldwide recession - just that we weathered it better and came out of it earlier than other major industrialized nations.

Might there be another crisis coming down the road? Quite possibly but again that is more attributable to non-domestic factors for the most part.


Since they took power the conservatives have upped the federal expenditures from about 200 billion to 280 billion. A 8 billion dollar haircut while welcome only takes a small peice out of the massive increases since 2008 where that 80 billion extra a year (40% increase!!!) was put in.

There's a reason we weathered it and it's going to bite us in the *** soon enough.

The conservatives will do their best to blame it on world events out of their control (they are already pre-fretting about the fiscal cliff getting the excuse warmed up) but it was them that saw Canadians turn their homes into ATMs and borrow their brains out and not only did they not curtail it they promoted and facilitated the idea so that now personal debt levels relative to incomes are at their highest level EVER.
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#43 Wetcoaster

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 03:50 PM

Since they took power the conservatives have upped the federal expenditures from about 200 billion to 280 billion. A 8 billion dollar haircut while welcome only takes a small peice out of the massive increases since 2008 where that 80 billion extra a year (40% increase!!!) was put in.

There's a reason we weathered it and it's going to bite us in the *** soon enough.

The conservatives will do their best to blame it on world events out of their control (they are already pre-fretting about the fiscal cliff getting the excuse warmed up) but it was them that saw Canadians turn their homes into ATMs and borrow their brains out and not only did they not curtail it they promoted and facilitated the idea so that now personal debt levels relative to incomes are at their highest level EVER.

And yet numerous international experts have heaped praise on the Harper government's economic performance and point out that we have coped better than any other major industrialized economy.

It is easy to do well in good times, the test is how you handle the tough times and that can only be assessed in reference to other countries.

It is like the old story when you are running from the bear you only have to be faster than the other guy.
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#44 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 03:51 PM

Trudeau is appealing because he has not had to deal with the hard questions yet. His resume is underwhelming.

If Trudeau's performance in the last few days when the heat is being turned up is any indication then the Conservatives are likely to send him down the same road to oblivion they dispatched Dion and Ignatieff.

Chretien's majorities were the beneficiary of the Mulroney meltdown and the PC/Reform split more than any other factors.

Hmmm... If the Cons were in the position of control that you're indicating, the polls certainly don't concur.

As it were, Trudeau made the comments in 2010, he addressed them now when approached, apologized, and has likely continued ignoring Alberta because their votes won't matter to him when the time comes. His real path to oblivion has more to do with how he handles Quebec, not what the Cons drum up about him.

Harper's minorities are the beneficiary of the Liberal party not having a vote-worthy candidate and the left split more than any other factors. With a suitable leader, the Liberals will likely regain control. The question is if Justin Trudeau is ready to be that leader. It might be too early. He is pretty young still. But we'll see. The polls indicate that people are ready to make do without Harper.
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#45 Lancaster

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 03:55 PM

Since they took power the conservatives have upped the federal expenditures from about 200 billion to 280 billion. A 8 billion dollar haircut while welcome only takes a small peice out of the massive increases since 2008 where that 80 billion extra a year (40% increase!!!) was put in.

There's a reason we weathered it and it's going to bite us in the *** soon enough.

The conservatives will do their best to blame it on world events out of their control (they are already pre-fretting about the fiscal cliff getting the excuse warmed up) but it was them that saw Canadians turn their homes into ATMs and borrow their brains out and not only did they not curtail it they promoted and facilitated the idea so that now personal debt levels relative to incomes are at their highest level EVER.


On the other hand, Liberals are quick to praise Chretien and Martins for budget surpluses caused by a massive boom in the US and an economy primarily focused on a very low Canadian dollar sending stuff South.

Private debt is a personal matter, as government cannot control their spending. It's a fact that most Canadian (1st world countries) tend to spend into debt buying frivolous stuff like new electronics, clothing, cars, etc.... all stuff with depreciating values. It's not like people are going into debt because they're maxing their credit cards buying bread and water to survive.
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#46 ronthecivil

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 03:59 PM

And yet numerous international experts have heaped praise on the Harper government's economic performance and point out that we have coped better than any other major industrialized economy.

It is easy to do well in good times, the test is how you handle the tough times and that can only be assessed in reference to other countries.

It is like the old story when you are running from the bear you only have to be faster than the other guy


It's not hard to be better than the rest of the countries that's for sure.

The thing is that the main reason we had the option of going into massive deficit spending/stimulus to charge up the economy was due to the years of fiscal prudence that preceded the 2008 financial crisis. That left a lot of room to increase spending and cut taxes to jump start the economy.

Problem is that we don't have that option anymore since it got burned up last time. When things go south this time it may hit Canada harder than other countries - they have already done a lot of delevaraging such that our average debt is much worse than say the states.
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#47 ronthecivil

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 04:05 PM

On the other hand, Liberals are quick to praise Chretien and Martins for budget surpluses caused by a massive boom in the US and an economy primarily focused on a very low Canadian dollar sending stuff South.

Private debt is a personal matter, as government cannot control their spending. It's a fact that most Canadian (1st world countries) tend to spend into debt buying frivolous stuff like new electronics, clothing, cars, etc.... all stuff with depreciating values. It's not like people are going into debt because they're maxing their credit cards buying bread and water to survive.


Oh yes they can. Ask any real estate agent what they think about the recent changes to mortgage rules and how it's affecting their business (never mind it was Flaherty an co. that previously relaxed them at one time allowing for 40 year mortgages).

Oh, and the same deal is true with people financing things through HELOCS that they insured through CMHC (which created a moral hazard ergo the non stop ads to get a home equity line of credit on the radio).

At the same time as they were borrowing their brains out they set the rules for Canadians to do the same to easy breasy and no surprise people dove in en masse.

Their policies for public lending have matched their own. A massive ramp up followed by a small cut back back leaving themselves vulnerable to external shocks.
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#48 Lancaster

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 04:37 PM

Oh yes they can. Ask any real estate agent what they think about the recent changes to mortgage rules and how it's affecting their business (never mind it was Flaherty an co. that previously relaxed them at one time allowing for 40 year mortgages).

Oh, and the same deal is true with people financing things through HELOCS that they insured through CMHC (which created a moral hazard ergo the non stop ads to get a home equity line of credit on the radio).

At the same time as they were borrowing their brains out they set the rules for Canadians to do the same to easy breasy and no surprise people dove in en masse.

Their policies for public lending have matched their own. A massive ramp up followed by a small cut back back leaving themselves vulnerable to external shocks.


Mortgages are a bit different from regular household debts. Plus, people were still buying houses when rates were over 20%. Not saying low rates aren't causing a housing bubble, but that's a different topic.

It's stuff like credit cards and lines of credits that are the issues here. Both consumers and governments are stuck in the mentality that you gotta spend to create wealth, when the truth is it should be savings.

Going off into a tangent now... my original post was just pointing out how many will say Harper shouldn't be using the macroeconomic factors as an excuse, yet at the same time praise the Liberals when they benefited from macroeconomic situations.
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#49 ronthecivil

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 04:51 PM

Mortgages are a bit different from regular household debts. Plus, people were still buying houses when rates were over 20%. Not saying low rates aren't causing a housing bubble, but that's a different topic.

It's stuff like credit cards and lines of credits that are the issues here. Both consumers and governments are stuck in the mentality that you gotta spend to create wealth, when the truth is it should be savings.

Going off into a tangent now... my original post was just pointing out how many will say Harper shouldn't be using the macroeconomic factors as an excuse, yet at the same time praise the Liberals when they benefited from macroeconomic situations.


The liberals of the day did have some macroeconomic help but they were very fiscally conservative and those balanced budgets didn't appear magically - it took massive cuts and the GST to get there.

That people that have just got into the market have huge percentages of their income tied up in mortgages is one thing. If that was the only problem moderate interest rates combined with tightened lending could indeed engineer a soft landing. A generation of slightly over their heads young people could eventually pay down and inflate their troubles away.

Unfortunately it's not the only problem.

The other problem is that many people have used the equity in their homes - gained not through diligently paying against their mortgage over the years to make an investment loan in an nest egg for example - but instead through the market run up to instead fall deeper and deeper into debt to live well beyond their means. There's a shocking number of people that should be getting ready to retire that are going to be carrying mortgages into retirement!

The reason this happened was because the feds loosened lending rules and provided insurance to the banks to make the loans. With no risk to them due to the insurance (moral hazard at it's best) then is it no surprise they were jumping over one another to toss out loans? With next to no carrying cost with matching government funds to say do a massive house reno not hard to see how a lot of people would jump in.

There's a dark side to easy credit and a LOT of Canadians have a nasty surprise in store. There doesn't need to be a drop in house prices. There just needs to be the onset of the rapidly approaching credit limit that drops consumer spending further and further in a viscous circle of deflation.
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#50 SterlingArcher

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 05:17 PM

Trudeau is running for leadership and Alberta voters will neither decide the leadership race NOR the next Federal Election .. many folks in Eastern Canada will drink that anti-Alberta kool-aid, and having the tar sand development as your national priority ala Harper is not real popular ..

Consider Justin talking to his base .. when the Conservatives took over, the Liberals were running a surplus .. just saying ..


Yet Alberta is flooded with these same Eastern Canada folks
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#51 Tearloch7

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 05:27 PM

Yet Alberta is flooded with these same Eastern Canada folks


Do the math .. what percent of folks working in Alberta but living back east are going to make any difference federally? .. 5% of Alberta's population? .. miniscule .. IMO
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#52 SterlingArcher

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 05:49 PM

Consider the 206,000 people who migrated from Ontario to Alberta. If we assume that roughly 50,000 of these would be children not of working age, that means some 150,000 adults left Ontario because they were without work (or at very least, had a better opportunity in Alberta).†If those 150,000 job seekers had stayed put in Ontario, the overall unemployment rate in that province would be 9.7%ómuch higher than the 7.6% reported in February.
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#53 Humble Rodent

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 05:58 PM

At the time he had already been elected (2008) in one of the safer Liberal seats in Quebec in the riding of Papineau - in the last 60 years it has been a Liberal stronghold for all but 2 years when the BQ had a short run there in 2006-08.

True, however he was still up for reelection. I'm not saying he should have said it, but it was obviously a bit of politicking and nothing more. You can find similarly stupid quotes from pretty much every politician ever.
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#54 Common sense

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 06:10 PM

Because it was two years ago and he was running for office in Quebec not Alberta.


At the time, the Tories already chased Paul Martin out of 24 Sussex and Stephane Dion from his LPC leadership spot. Giving them fuel to use for a political ad is simply stupendous, especially when party folks were calling for Trudeau to step up to the leadership spot.

Edited by Common sense, 23 November 2012 - 06:11 PM.

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#55 Wetcoaster

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 06:11 PM

True, however he was still up for reelection. I'm not saying he should have said it, but it was obviously a bit of politicking and nothing more. You can find similarly stupid quotes from pretty much every politician ever.

There was no election going on at the time.
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#56 Humble Rodent

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 06:13 PM

There was no election going on at the time.

Was there not? I just assumed this was during the 2011 election.

EDIT: Right yeah timing would have been a little off for that.

Edited by Humble Rodent, 23 November 2012 - 06:13 PM.

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#57 Wetcoaster

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 06:13 PM

At the time, the Tories already chased Paul Martin out of 24 Sussex and Stephane Dion from his LPC leadership spot. Giving them fuel to use for a political ad is simply stupendous, especially when party folks were calling for Trudeau to step up to the leadership spot.

Young inexperienced, stupid, arrogant, frustrated easily and lashes out and does not think before putting his mouth in gear. Sounds like he will be a great target.
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#58 Wetcoaster

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 09:55 AM

As to the claims the Conservatives are scared of Justin Trudeau, why would they be based on his resume and performance thus far. But that does not mean that you do not take advantage of his perceived weaknesses to bury him early.

Nothing about being scared - it is just politics as usual with politics being a blood sport. It looks like a coronation for Justin much like happened with Ignatieff's acclamation so start early and hit hard.

The Conservatives have used this tactic effectively with Dion and Ignatieff and the Liberals did the same with Harper painting him as a wild-eyed right winger based on decades old quotes.

In fact the Conservatives featured Justin Trudeau in ads attacking Ignatieff in which comments from his pre-MP days were used. Trudeau had endorsed Gerard Kennedy and was particularly critical of the front-runner. "Ignatieff, he's a little all over the place sometimes," Trudeau says in the spot, in a clip drawn from a 2006 TV interview. "He says this, he says that - he contradicts himself." Trudeau then delivers this little parting shot: "For me, he's not someone with... maybe he has the intelligence, but maybe not the wisdom required."

And the parting shot... The ad's narrator ends the spot by asking viewers: "Liberals themselves doubt (Ignatieff's) judgment. How can we trust him?"

And earlier Ignatieff's comments were used to attack Stephane Dion in Conservative ads showing Ignatieff, from the Liberal leadership race, criticizing Stephane Dion's environmental record, saying: "Stephane, we didn't get it done."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yEH_hprcs6g

And before the last election even started we had a series of Conservative ads with anti-Ignatieff messaging such as “Ignatieff and his ruthless coalition,” said one ad, claiming the Liberal leader supported a coalition with the NDP and Bloc Québécois once — and will do it again.

And the thematic ads attacking Ignatieff on his US ties "He did not come back for you" that used old quotes to great effect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xSgHmbh7ZVY

And:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pcJ_9wVfFE0

Nothing new here - just the Conservatives using a strategy that has proved effective in the past and one also used by other parties. Even the Libertarian party got in on the fun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fHSGXyf5_mk

And should in the unlikely event that Marc Garneau should win the Liberal leadership perhaps we should expect this sort of attack ad from the Conservatives...


Posted Image

Marc Garneau: He didn't come back for you

:lol: :lol:

Edited by Wetcoaster, 24 November 2012 - 10:06 AM.

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#59 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 01:20 PM

They're probably scared because he can already beat Harper without having to build up a resume.
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#60 Wetcoaster

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 02:18 PM

They're probably scared because he can already beat Harper without having to build up a resume.

I missed that election. Can you provide a link.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

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Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.




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