Jump to content

Welcome to canucks.com Vancouver Canucks homepage

Photo

Justin Trudeau - Suffering from Foot in Mouth - Canadian Style


  • Please log in to reply
316 replies to this topic

#241 Wetcoaster

Wetcoaster

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 40,454 posts
  • Joined: 26-April 04

Posted 02 December 2012 - 05:01 PM

And another....



FLIP





FLOP



After deciding he needed to try for gain support in the West and rural Canada, Justin has again changed his mind.


Shortly after hitting his first bump in the road as the Liberal leadership frontrunner with two-year-old comments about Alberta, Justin Trudeau has called the long gun registry a “failure” despite having previously voted to keep it.


“The long gun registry, as it was, was a failure and I’m not going to resuscitate that,” the Montreal MP said during a question-and-answer session with workers at an Ontario aerospace plant Friday.


“But we will continue to look at ways of keeping our cities safe and making sure that we do address the concerns around domestic violence right across the country in rural as well as urban areas in which, unfortunately, guns do play a role. But there are better ways of keeping us safe than that registry.”


Trudeau voted to keep the long gun registry earlier this year [the bill to kill the registry passed 159 to 130, with all Liberals voting against it] but the son of the prime minister behind the hated “National Energy Policy” has been making concerted efforts to appeal to the West and rural Canadians since becoming a leadership candidate.

http://news.national...stry-a-failure/


It seems that Justin Trudeau has carefully studied the successful campaign run for President by one Willard Mitt Romney and decided to emulate him.

The Canadian strain of Mitt in Mouth disease perhaps?


Justin Trudeau is an intellectual lightweight without much experience nor much of a record or resume. And then when he utters such statements without much thought he simply presents an inviting political target that have been the downfall of much more experienced and qualified past Liberal leaders.

Perhaps Justin should heed the advice of Mark Twain (also attributed by some to Abraham Lincoln):

It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.

Edited by Wetcoaster, 02 December 2012 - 05:25 PM.

  • 0
To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#242 TOMapleLaughs

TOMapleLaughs

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,174 posts
  • Joined: 19-September 05

Posted 02 December 2012 - 05:29 PM

He was for it when he thought it was good policy, claiming it could be "helpful" and voted for its creation twice; but when his principles conflicted with getting elected, Stephen Harper was quick to unload them.

Stephen Harper as a Reform MP, contrary to his party's stance, voted for bill C-68, the act that established the long-gun registry. He voted for it claiming that the bill could be helpful in reducing gun violence.

On June 12 1995 in the House of Commons during the third reading of the bill C-68 that created the long-gun registry Stephen Harper stated, "From my own personal standpoint I believe there are elements of gun control and specifically of this bill that could be helpful."

And Harper was right, the long-gun registry was helpful. The RCMP report that there has been a decrease in long gun homicides since bill C-68 was passed and Quebec’s Institute of Public Health has credited the registry with preventing 300 long-gun deaths a year. In light of such results and the registry's low annual budget, the RCMP, the Canadian Police Association, and the Canadian Association of Police Chiefs all support the long-gun registry.

However, though the soon-to-be Prime Minister voted with his principles for the long-gun registry twice, at first and second reading, he would oppose it at the third reading, saying his flip-flop was due to the changing opinion of some of his constituents.

Stephen Harper while still admitting the bill had merit, explained he was changing his opinion and opposing it based on certain concerns, concerns that in today's context do not exist.

At the time he explained that there was still support for the registry’s general principles but that “there are some very severe concerns about specific matters, about some of the penalties for non-registration, the confiscatory elements of the legislation and the cost concerns."

Based on those concerns Stephen Harper gave to justify his flip-flop then, and seeing as today the long-gun registry has no penalties for non-registration, no threats of confiscation, and only costs $3.6 million a year, Canadians would expect Mr.Harper to support the long-gun registry, that is if he still had principles.

But as it happened in 1995, it happens today, Stephen Harper's principles lie on the floor like empty shell casings and Canada's public safety, including our police officers, are the ones in the crosshairs.


It would seem that flopping on gun registry isn't a Trudeau-only phenomenon.

If you go back far enough, you'll notice that Harper was also a Liberal.

But let's give Harper's mind-changing ways a pass, right?

You'll find that politicians flip and flop over their careers more than your average dolphin. We as voters have become immune.
  • 1
Posted Image

#243 Wetcoaster

Wetcoaster

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 40,454 posts
  • Joined: 26-April 04

Posted 02 December 2012 - 05:41 PM

It would seem that flopping on gun registry isn't a Trudeau-only phenomenon.

If you go back far enough, you'll notice that Harper was also a Liberal.

But let's give Harper's mind-changing ways a pass, right?

You'll find that politicians flip and flop over their careers more than your average dolphin. We as voters have become immune.

Well let's see - Harper had had 7 years and time to assess the actual impact of the long gun registry.

Justin voted in mid February 2012.

Seems qualitatively and timeline different.

As far as Harper's change from Liberal to Conservative that happened back when Justin's father enacted the National Energy Program in 1980.
  • 0
To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#244 TOMapleLaughs

TOMapleLaughs

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,174 posts
  • Joined: 19-September 05

Posted 02 December 2012 - 05:46 PM

Flop's a flop, pops
  • 0
Posted Image

#245 Tearloch7

Tearloch7

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,778 posts
  • Joined: 15-July 10

Posted 02 December 2012 - 05:46 PM

You are all wet, Wet .. this is politics .. the Byrds used to do a song about it .. "Turn, Turn, Turn" as in spin-spin-spin .. all politicians, with rare exceptions are "wh*res" .. once you admit that, the rest is just semantics ..
  • 0

"To Thine Own Self Be True"

 

"Always tell the Truth. That way, you don’t have to remember what you said"  ~ Mark Twain ~
 


#246 Wetcoaster

Wetcoaster

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 40,454 posts
  • Joined: 26-April 04

Posted 02 December 2012 - 05:48 PM

Flop's a flop, pops

I disagree.
  • 0
To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#247 TOMapleLaughs

TOMapleLaughs

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,174 posts
  • Joined: 19-September 05

Posted 02 December 2012 - 05:50 PM

Shocking.
  • 2
Posted Image

#248 Common sense

Common sense

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,721 posts
  • Joined: 08-January 06

Posted 02 December 2012 - 07:01 PM

You are all wet, Wet .. this is politics .. the Byrds used to do a song about it .. "Turn, Turn, Turn" as in spin-spin-spin .. all politicians, with rare exceptions are "wh*res" .. once you admit that, the rest is just semantics ..


Only when leftists do it. When right-wingers do it, it's called backtracking on one's words, a disgrace, and insulting.

The double standard lives!
  • 0

#249 Harbinger

Harbinger

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,198 posts
  • Joined: 12-October 05

Posted 02 December 2012 - 07:35 PM

Shocking.


I'm going to go out on a limb here and say this is the most disingenuous I have ever seen Wet
  • 0

Posted Image


#250 Wetcoaster

Wetcoaster

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 40,454 posts
  • Joined: 26-April 04

Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:59 PM

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say this is the most disingenuous I have ever seen Wet

I would say more like this for you:

Posted Image
  • 0
To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#251 ronthecivil

ronthecivil

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,171 posts
  • Joined: 18-August 05

Posted 03 December 2012 - 11:41 AM

Have you not heard of FIPPA? One of the many in a long list of Harper selling off our resources and sovereignty among many other misdeeds.

http://www.vancouver...law-expert-says


Yep that's too far right.

But if the NDP got in we would no doubt see some sort of NEP V2.0 which would be even worse.
  • 0

#252 J.R.

J.R.

    Rainbow Butt Monkey

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,752 posts
  • Joined: 04-July 08

Posted 03 December 2012 - 11:42 AM

Yep that's too far right.

But if the NDP got in we would no doubt see some sort of NEP V2.0 which would be even worse.


You're basing this assumption on....?
  • 0
"Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you."
- Neil deGrasse Tyson

Posted ImagePosted Image

#253 Wetcoaster

Wetcoaster

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 40,454 posts
  • Joined: 26-April 04

Posted 03 December 2012 - 11:45 AM

Trudeau's latest flip flop on the gun registry has provided ammunition for the Conservatives and NDP. And no doubt for his leadership race opponents.


Liberal leadership hopeful Justin Trudeau’s labelling of the long gun registry as a “failure” after voting to keep the much-maligned program has drawn scorn from both the Conservatives who abolished it and the NDP who want to bring it back.


“The long gun registry, as it was, was a failure and I’m not going to resuscitate that,” the Trudeau said during a question-and-answer session in the Conservative-held territory of Hawkesbury, Ontario Friday.


“But we will continue to look at ways of keeping our cities safe and making sure that we do address the concerns around domestic violence right across the country in rural as well as urban areas in which, unfortunately, guns do play a role. But there are better ways of keeping us safe than that registry.”


Conservatives accused Trudeau of pandering to a rural audience — which the Liberals have increasingly lost in successive elections — while voting against the long gun registry as a Montreal MP.


“If Justin Trudeau wanted to end the long gun registry he had years to work with the [Conservatives]. Says one thing in rural Canada, another in the House,” Public Safety Minister Vic Toews said on Twitter Saturday night.


Conservative backbencher Candice Bergen, whose private member’s bill to abolish the long gun registry nearly passed in 2010, mocked Trudeau for the perceived flip-flop.


In 2010, Trudeau told a group of gun registry protesters that the “registry saves lives.”


In both 2010 and 2012, the Liberals voted to keep the long gun registry, which was created by their party in 1995 partially in response to the 1989 École Polytechnique massacre.


The long gun registry remains popular in Quebec, where the government went to court in order to keep the data from the program.


While Trudeau’s “failure” comment would seem to run counter to his party and his Montreal base, the Liberals have since said that they have no intentions of bringing back the registry.


The NDP, which won 59 out of 75 seats in Quebec in the 2011 election, has vowed to restore the program.


NDP justice critic Françoise Boivin criticized Trudeau in a number of Twitter posts over the weekend.


“Playing politics is voting one way then [saying] another thing,” she said in one post.


“If he had listened to [witnesses] while we were studying C-19 he would not say “failure. He voted [for] it! Weird!” she said in another.

Trudeau, long perceived as the Liberal leadership frontrunner, has hit his second snag in less than two weeks. In late November, he apologized for two-year-old comments in which he said: “Canada isn’t doing well right now because it’s Albertans who control our community and socio-democratic agenda. It doesn’t work.”


Those comments came to light after a number of polls showed a Trudeau-led Liberal party could win a majority in the next election.


With Liberal MP’s Marc Garneau’s official entrance into the Liberal leadership race last week, the campaign to replace interim leader Bob Rae has begun in earnest.


Garneau, whose impressive resume, grey hair and rocky relationship with the voting public stands in stark contrast to his younger foe, has put the spotlight on Trudeau’s so-far limited policy proposals.


Trudeau has said marijuana should be decriminalized and suggested he’s open to taxing and regulating it. He argued for embracing Chinese investment in the oil sands, although he has rejected the Northern Gateway pipeline project.


Trudeau has also said Old Age Security should return to 65 from 67, after the Harper government moved to increase the age limit.


And on a few matters — cap-and-trade and decriminalizing prostitution — Trudeau has simply said: “I don’t know.”


The Liberal leadership vote will be held April 14.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/12/03/justin-trudeaus-labelling-of-the-long-gun-registry-as-a-failure-slammed-by-tories-ndp-alike/
  • 0
To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#254 ronthecivil

ronthecivil

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,171 posts
  • Joined: 18-August 05

Posted 03 December 2012 - 11:48 AM

You're basing this assumption on....?


Seriously? Mulclairs gotta fight our Dutch Disease!

Wait till the NDP get here provincially and we will all remember what fun it is to have them in power.
  • 0

#255 ronthecivil

ronthecivil

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,171 posts
  • Joined: 18-August 05

Posted 03 December 2012 - 11:52 AM

The NDP, which won 59 out of 75 seats in Quebec in the 2011 election, has vowed to restore the program.


How many beaurocratic nanny state programs would an NDP government install in this country?!?

More importantly how the hell do the Liberals fail to take hold of the gaping hole in the middle in this country?!?
  • 0

#256 J.R.

J.R.

    Rainbow Butt Monkey

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,752 posts
  • Joined: 04-July 08

Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:28 PM

Seriously? Mulclairs gotta fight our Dutch Disease!

Wait till the NDP get here provincially and we will all remember what fun it is to have them in power.


I do not in any way confuse the federal NDP with the provincial NDP. Entirely different animals. You should try to do the same.

I honestly have no clue who I plan to vote for provincially in the upcoming election. Definitely not the Liberals or the NDP though. Neither of them deserve my vote as far as I'm concerned.
  • 0
"Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you."
- Neil deGrasse Tyson

Posted ImagePosted Image

#257 TOMapleLaughs

TOMapleLaughs

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,174 posts
  • Joined: 19-September 05

Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:50 PM

Gun registry, schmun registry... Garneau would have us all upgraded to lasers.


It would seem that Trudeau's path to Liberal leadership isn't really being blocked. 63-year-old Garneau has no moxy. So even if he was the better candidate, nobody would ever know.

However, a federal race with 'take me to your leader' spaceman Garneau puns would've been awesome.
  • 0
Posted Image

#258 ronthecivil

ronthecivil

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,171 posts
  • Joined: 18-August 05

Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:07 PM

Gun registry, schmun registry... Garneau would have us all upgraded to lasers.


It would seem that Trudeau's path to Liberal leadership isn't really being blocked. 63-year-old Garneau has no moxy. So even if he was the better candidate, nobody would ever know.

However, a federal race with 'take me to your leader' spaceman Garneau puns would've been awesome.


Well we still don't know who's going to win or what the liberal platform will be. It went from celebrated fiscal conservative (Paul Martin) to left wing environmentalist (Dionne) to strange mix (Ignatief).

The thought of being upgraded to lasers is intriguing though!

The fact that he is an engineer and not a lawyer is of course awesome in my mind. With a degree in Eng Phys I know for sure that he at least knows math.
  • 0

#259 Wetcoaster

Wetcoaster

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 40,454 posts
  • Joined: 26-April 04

Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:17 PM

Gun registry, schmun registry... Garneau would have us all upgraded to lasers.


It would seem that Trudeau's path to Liberal leadership isn't really being blocked. 63-year-old Garneau has no moxy. So even if he was the better candidate, nobody would ever know.

However, a federal race with 'take me to your leader' spaceman Garneau puns would've been awesome.

How about sharks with frickin' lasers attached to their heads? Cheaper than submarines, eh?




All sorts of possibilities and themes...

Politics ain't rocket science!!! And I should know.

Marc Garneau... he is really out there.

That Garneau... what a space cadet.

And should in the unlikely event that Marc Garneau should win the Liberal leadership perhaps we should expect this sort of attack ad from the Conservatives...
Posted Image
Marc Garneau: He didn't come back for you

Edited by Wetcoaster, 03 December 2012 - 01:21 PM.

  • 0
To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#260 DonLever

DonLever

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,306 posts
  • Joined: 11-December 08

Posted 03 December 2012 - 02:37 PM

This flip flopping reminds me the guy in the US presidential race. You know, the guy with the name that starts with a R, the one who no will remember in the next generation, other than being a footnote in history.

Anyway, Mr. R , flip flopped on so many issues he became a fish. You never could figure out where he stood on some issues. Just to get votes.

Well, Mr. Trudeau seems to be the same way. The gun registeration is only one thing. The oil sand project/pipeline in Alberta is another. In favor, yes, no, maybe. Depends on his audience.

Edited by DonLever, 03 December 2012 - 02:39 PM.

  • 0

#261 ronthecivil

ronthecivil

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,171 posts
  • Joined: 18-August 05

Posted 03 December 2012 - 02:53 PM

And should in the unlikely event that Marc Garneau should win the Liberal leadership perhaps we should expect this sort of attack ad from the Conservatives...
Posted Image
Marc Garneau: He didn't come back for you


He could retort with "Hey, my only flight to space had a connection in the US! What, we're not allowed to leave the country for a business trip anymore?"

Some of the conservative attack ads are ridiculous. So many retorts that could be made to the current non stop conservative ones on the NDP yet all we hear is the conservative attack ads.
  • 0

#262 inane

inane

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,938 posts
  • Joined: 06-July 07

Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:02 PM

Except when people 'flip flop' on things like, oh, omnibus budget bills. Then it's just smart.
  • 0

#263 Tearloch7

Tearloch7

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,778 posts
  • Joined: 15-July 10

Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:54 PM

Conservatives have consistently used personal attack ad's to smear anyone in any Party who is deemed a threat .. so watch for Conservative negative ad;s and you'll know who the Liberal front runner is .. or who they are "skeered" of ..
  • 0

"To Thine Own Self Be True"

 

"Always tell the Truth. That way, you don’t have to remember what you said"  ~ Mark Twain ~
 


#264 TOMapleLaughs

TOMapleLaughs

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,174 posts
  • Joined: 19-September 05

Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:57 PM

Harper flops on Elections Canada controversy, one day later:

March 8 - Conservatives about-face, now support NDP move to boost Elections Canada's powers

OTTAWA — Prime Minister Stephen Harper's Conservatives, in a sudden flip-flop, have revealed they are prepared to support giving more investigative powers to Canada's chief electoral officer.

The development occurred Wednesday, when Harper told the House of Commons his party will support an NDP motion to be debated by MPs Thursday. The motion calls for legislation within six months to provide strengthened powers to Elections Canada.

Just a day earlier, the government had adopted a different position, insisting that its MPs on a parliamentary committee had blocked a move to give new audit powers to Chief Electoral Officer Marc Mayrand because it would add expenses to the elections agency's budget.

Mayrand had sought new powers to force parties to verify their election expenses with detailed records and receipts — a responsibility the Tories said should instead rest in the hands of private-sector compliance auditors hired by the parties themselves.

But as the robocalls controversy continues to dominate debate on Parliament Hill — and as Elections Canada conducts an investigation into complaints of electoral fraud in last year's election — it has become clear that Harper wants to amend a public perception that he is obstructing the elections agency.


Harper flops on pension system

Feb 9 - Prime minister’s flip-flop on public pension system called ‘shameful’

GUELPH — Prime Minister Stephen Harper courted controversy when he floated the idea of significant changes to Canada’s public pension system two weeks ago, but seven years ago in Guelph he was unequivocal about the Conservatives’ commitment not to change the time-honoured system.

In a 2005 federal election campaign stop in Guelph, then opposition leader Harper trumpeted past Conservative governments’ 70-year history of building the public pension system.

“I will honour those commitments,” he said to a Guelph audience. “My government will fully preserve Old Age Security, the Guaranteed Income Supplement, and the Canada Pension Plan, and all projected future increases to these programs. And we will build on those commitments.”

The seven-year-old policy commitment/campaign promise was unearthed by CBC News this week during a broadcast of The National’s At Issue segment. In light of Harper’s apparent about-face on the issue, some are accusing the prime minister of lying seven years ago, while others are calling him a “hypocrite.”

Guelph MP Frank Valeriote is among those accusing Harper of lying back in 2005. Valeriote said Thursday the public pension promise wasn’t the only one made by Harper during that Guelph speech. He also made assurances not to tax income trusts, a promise he went back on about eight months after taking office.

“I think he lied,” said Valeriote. “It’s unconscionable, and deceptive. And he lied.”

“They have said in the House that changes are coming to the Old Age Security program,” Valeriote added. “We can only speculate on what we’ve heard, and that is that he is going to change the age from 65 to 67.”

That change represents $13,000 to $15,000 “out of the pockets of seniors over the course of those two years,” Valeriote said, adding that such a dramatic change also impacts the amount of Guaranteed Income Supplement a senior is eligible for.

On Thursday, the Ontario Federation of Labour staged occupations of 21 Conservative constituency offices in the province, including that of Michael Chong, MP for Wellington-Halton Hills. Chong is currently in China with Harper and could not be reached for comment.

In an interview, federation president Sid Ryan was asked to respond to the disparity between Harper’s 2005 comments in Guelph and his recent overtures about making major changes to the country’s public pension system.

“We’re saying that he is basically a hypocrite,” said Ryan. “He has clearly reneged, and sold-out the seniors and retirees of this country. And what is shameful about it is that he announced it in Davos, Switzerland in front of the one per cent richest people in the world. He essentially announced that he’ll be going back to his own country and attacking the incomes of the most vulnerable of all citizens, seniors and soon-to-be retirees.”

Ryan called it “pretty shameful” that Harper would “so blatantly renege on a promise he made only a short few years ago.” Ryan pointed out Harper will be eligible for a pension of $233,000 per year in 2015.



And of course, carbon tax. Do the Cons support it or not?

No:

Oct 30 - In recent months they (the Cons) have repeatedly railed at carbon pricing calling it "job killing" and "a tax on everything." Responding in Parliament to a question from NDP environment critic Megan Leslie, Prime Minister Stephen Harper referred to carbon taxes as "something the economy cannot take and something that Canadians will never accept."


But really, yes:

"The Conservatives have a secret plan to impose a carbon tax," the NDP statement says, before quoting the Conservative Party's 2008 platform.

Conservatives promised cap and trade in 2008

"We will work with the provinces and territories and our NAFTA trading partners in the United States and Mexico, at both the national and state levels, to develop and implement a North America-wide cap and trade system for greenhouse gases and air pollution, with implementation to occur between 2012 and 2015," the Conservative Party's platform said.

The NDP also quote Environment Minister Peter Kent, who said last year that a cap-and-trade system is a possibility for Canada.

"According to the Conservatives own twisted logic, Conservatives planned to impose a carbon tax between 2012 and 2015, and are still actively considering a carbon tax in the future. The well documented reality is, the NDP has opposed a carbon tax in the past and continues to do so now," the NDP release says.


But who knows if the Cons will give us a carbon tax or not? Likely, and this is just my opinion, they'll do it just before they're on their way out, making it a lot easier for the Liberals to gain their power back and then reap the benefits of the prior party's suicidal tax hike. GST all over again?

However, does anyone actually invision oil baron Harper actually putting through a carbon tax? Yeah, he might've wanted to in 2008, but that was before his oil buddies had a fair chance to corrupt his thought. (my opinion)


There are more flops too, of course. It's fairly obvious that Harper and the Cons have been flip-flopping quite a bit over the years. What makes Trudeau's flops any different other than he's not even his party's leader yet?


Flip-flopping and politics hold hands while they dance on your tax dollars and this is the way it's been forever.
  • 3
Posted Image

#265 Wetcoaster

Wetcoaster

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 40,454 posts
  • Joined: 26-April 04

Posted 03 December 2012 - 07:38 PM

Trudeau is taking hits from all sides on his long gun registry comments.

From former Liberal Justice Minster Martin Cauchon:

Martin Cauchon, who is still pondering whether to run for the leadership himself, told The Canadian Press that leadership contenders need to show they'll stand up for Liberal principles and values.


And he said the controversial registry, created by the government of Jean Chretien in which Cauchon served, is an important part of the party's legacy.

"I believe that we have to update our policies and make sure that next election we're going to be able to show leadership to Canadians," Cauchon said in an interview.


"But, you know what, I believe as well ... that a candidate running should have the backbone to respect and stand for the principles that we have always stood for."


Cauchon said party renewal shouldn't mean Liberals have to turn their back on accomplishments such as the Charter of Rights, official bilingualism or even the gun registry.

...

Cauchon also blasted Trudeau for the guns-as-culture comment.


"The point is pretty simple. We're not living in the (United) States," where Americans have a constitutional right to bear arms, Cauchon said. "We're building a different society."


BC NDP MP Nathan Cullen:

The NDP's Nathan Cullen, who represents a rural B.C. riding and opposed the registry, said the comments smacked of insincerity. He said it was a strange position to take for someone who had been a passionate defender of the registry.


"As somebody who represents and lives in rural Canada, it seems to reduce us down to people who simply own guns," Cullen said.


"This is not who we are. We are many things. And people can smell pandering when they see it. Canadians can tolerate quite a bit from their political leaders. Hypocrisy is, generally speaking, not one of those things."


Justin Trudeau tried to spin his comments - not all that successfully - much like his anti-Alberta comments it seems that Quebeckers are just different from the rest of us rubes. And Trudeau has decided the term "failed public policy" needed a re-write - Justin style.

Justin Trudeau has scrambled to explain his stance on gun control with the politically polarizing issue providing an early test in his Liberal leadership campaign.


The fallout from his sudden disavowal of the long-gun registry has required the front-running candidate to deal with a controversial policy debate just days after the flareup over unflattering remarks he once made about Alberta.


Trudeau handled it Monday by trying to appeal to both sides.


He spent a news scrum with reporters handling questions over an issue that resurfaced over the weekend with his description of the Liberals' registry as a failed policy.


Trudeau explained that he hadn't actually flip-flopped on the gun registry. In fact, he said, he always supported it, and still does support it in principle. But he said that now that it's gone it's too divisive to try bringing back.


In the next breath, however, Trudeau added that he supports Quebec's effort to bring it back in that province because he said the measure is not controversial there.


Finally, he offered his explanation of how the long-gun registry fits into his definition of a "failed" public policy.


"I voted to keep the firearms registry a few months ago and if we had a vote tomorrow I would vote once again to keep the long-gun registry," Trudeau told reporters.


"However, the definition of a failed public policy is the fact that the long-gun registry is no more... The fact is, because it was so deeply divisive for far too many people, it no longer exists." He repeated that definition of public policy, in both English and French.

...

A Quebec reporter asked Trudeau about that province's legal fight to keep its portion of the registry and he replied:

"I find it's a very good idea. Because in Quebec it was not at all as divisive as it was elsewhere in the country," Trudeau said.

"Perhaps a solution is to let provinces find different solutions. What's important is protecting Quebecers from gun violence."


YIKES. Every time he opens his mouth he just digs himself in deeper. A definite lack of intellect shining through.

And a prominent gun control advocate who survived the Montreal Polytechnique massacre by gunman Marc Lepine ( the event that was instrumental in the long gun registry being put in place) was not buying the spin and took Trudeau to task:

The performance earned him a scathing rebuttal from a prominent gun-control advocate.


A survivor of the Montreal polytechnique massacre, which occurred 23 years ago this week, Heidi Rathjen pushed for the creation of the federal registry. On Monday she blasted not only Trudeau's gun policy but also his broader approach to leadership.


"It's just political garbage," she said of Trudeau's policy.


"He's basically saying that the registry is a good thing only where it's popular, but that's not what a political leader does, that's not how you lead — by implementing a public safety measure only where's no controversy...


"It's not clear, it's confusing and I think it's a cop-out because he wants to please everybody and then he ends up pleasing nobody."


Time for Justin Trudeau to shut up, smile and look pretty because when he engages his mouth he clearly is not engaging his brain (assuming that he has much of one to engage)... and hope no one asks him any tough questions because when that happens he is completely at sea.

Edited by Wetcoaster, 03 December 2012 - 07:44 PM.

  • 0
To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#266 Wetcoaster

Wetcoaster

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 40,454 posts
  • Joined: 26-April 04

Posted 03 December 2012 - 11:02 PM

John Ivison writing in the National Post had a couple of quite humorous observations about the clown car campaign being run by Justin Trudeau titled - "John Ivison: Trudeau’s incoherent gun registry position is a gift to his Liberal rivals"
http://fullcomment.n...liberal-rivals/

First an Conservative attack ad is imagined should Justin Trudeau win the leadership:

Sometime between now and the 2015 election, expect to see a Conservative Party attack ad featuring a YouTube clip of a rookie MP debating the long-gun registry with some university protesters on the steps in front of Parliament.

“The registry saves lives,” argues a young Justin Trudeau, passionately.

Cut to an interview on the Liberal leadership campaign trail. “The long-gun registry, as it was, was a failure and I’m not going to resuscitate it,” says a slightly older Mr. Trudeau.

Cut to a still picture of Mr. Trudeau looking like he’s about to drive off in the getaway car, accompanied by a Conservative Party voiceover: “Justin Trudeau will tell you whatever he thinks you want to hear, whenever you want to hear it. He’s not a leader.”

And that will likely be the ball game.

The best attack ads crystallize that nagging feeling people have about a candidate – that deep-seated concern that turns brows bleak as voters have their worst fears validated.

They work especially well when they throw the candidate’s own words back in his or her face.


And then on positioning himself on the right wing of the LPC to separate himself from other leadership candidates:

For Mr. Trudeau, it has the added benefit of continuing to position him on the ideological right of many of his leadership rivals — a blatant pander to those right of centre voters who may have become disillusioned with Stephen Harper.

It’s perfectly valid to move into the Progressive Conservative space and take clear positions that annoy Liberals like the former justice minister, Martin Cauchon, who said Monday that candidates “should have the backbone to respect and stand for the principles that we have always stood for.”

But it is quite another thing to put forward incoherent policy positions. When he was asked about his new position in Montreal Monday, Mr. Trudeau said he voted to keep the firearm registry a few months ago and “if we had the vote tomorrow I’d vote once again to keep the long gun registry.” Eh? The one you just said was a failure? The one you have no interest in recalling to life?


And it exposes him to attack and ridicule from political opponents including other Liberal leadership hopefuls:

It invites his political opponents to portray him as a weather-vane, as the PCs did with former Ontario Liberal leader Lyn McLeod, or a windsurfer at the mercy of the prevailing breeze, as the Republicans did with Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry.

The attack only works because it is grounded in reality. Like him or not, Mr. Harper could never be accused of being pliant. When he is asked a question, he runs down his mental checklist of where he stands on any given subject and produces an answer that is invariably consistent with his previous public statements.


And my favourite ROFLMAO line in Ivison's column:

Mr. Trudeau doesn’t appear to have such a core set of beliefs. If he does he is flexible in their application, as if they were a Groucho Marx joke – here are my principles; if you don’t like them I have others.


  • 0
To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#267 inane

inane

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,938 posts
  • Joined: 06-July 07

Posted 03 December 2012 - 11:52 PM

You seem to have a strange obsession with tearing him down.
  • 0

#268 Tearloch7

Tearloch7

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,778 posts
  • Joined: 15-July 10

Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:12 AM

You seem to have a strange obsession with tearing him down.


Those who can, do .. those who cannot, belittle .. Wet is fearful of Justin stealing the Conservative's Realm ..
  • 0

"To Thine Own Self Be True"

 

"Always tell the Truth. That way, you don’t have to remember what you said"  ~ Mark Twain ~
 


#269 TOMapleLaughs

TOMapleLaughs

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,174 posts
  • Joined: 19-September 05

Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:25 AM

Conservative fear of and subsequent attack on JT after that poll is understandable. What i find ROFLMAO-worthy is the NDP reaction. 'Hey! Remember us!? Over here! We're not dead! We're NOT!'


No, it's not just the 'fair and balanced' National Post playing-up the fact that JT had flip-flopped on gun registry. Other outlets see Harper and the Cons treating JT as a very serious threat now, and that's why they are in full attack mode. Certainly, this is nothing out of the ordinary. It just seems fairly early in the game this time, as JT isn't even Liberal leader yet.

Yes, the Cons should be afraid, esp. when JT voters don't even care about gun registry. Or whether or not Alberta has hurt feelings.

If and when JT wins, regardless of how many insignificant flips he performs, it will be the ultimate humiliation for Megamind Harper.
  • 1
Posted Image

#270 Tearloch7

Tearloch7

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,778 posts
  • Joined: 15-July 10

Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:35 AM

Conservative fear of and subsequent attack on JT after that poll is understandable. What i find ROFLMAO-worthy is the NDP reaction. 'Hey! Remember us!? Over here! We're not dead! We're NOT!'


No, it's not just the 'fair and balanced' National Post playing-up the fact that JT had flip-flopped on gun registry. Other outlets see Harper and the Cons treating JT as a very serious threat now, and that's why they are in full attack mode. Certainly, this is nothing out of the ordinary. It just seems fairly early in the game this time, as JT isn't even Liberal leader yet.

Yes, the Cons should be afraid, esp. when JT voters don't even care about gun registry. Or whether or not Alberta has hurt feelings.

If and when JT wins, regardless of how many insignificant flips he performs, it will be the ultimate humiliation for Megamind Harper.


I can see this scenario playing out, with much joy and hand-clapping, while the Neo-cons shrivel .. I want to see Harper pay a price for his arrogance ..
  • 0

"To Thine Own Self Be True"

 

"Always tell the Truth. That way, you don’t have to remember what you said"  ~ Mark Twain ~
 





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Canucks.com is the official Web site of The Vancouver Canucks. The Vancouver Canucks and Canucks.com are trademarks of The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership.  NHL and the word mark and image of the Stanley Cup are registered trademarks and the NHL Shield and NHL Conference logos are trademarks of the National Hockey League. All NHL logos and marks and NHL team logos and marks as well as all other proprietary materials depicted herein are the property of the NHL and the respective NHL teams and may not be reproduced without the prior written consent of NHL Enterprises, L.P.  Copyright © 2009 The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership and the National Hockey League.  All Rights Reserved.