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2013 World Junior Ice Hockey Championships


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#2401 canucklax

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 02:47 PM

This is what I hate about these one game knockout tournaments. Canada has a better overall record than the US. Canada is .500 against the US. Canada is playing for a lesser medal than the US because Canada lost the second head to head match up against the States. The States aren't necessarily better but they advance because of when the game was played.


Who won when it mattered?

Your reasoning would lead to the President's cup winner being the best team and the playoffs being stupid because a team won later in the year
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#2402 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 02:48 PM

Who won when it mattered?

Your reasoning would lead to the President's cup winner being the best team and the playoffs being stupid because a team won later in the year


They won based on a single game which was played at a later date. That's the thing. They won when it mattered -- one game. Are the Americans truly the better team? I really don't think so. I think TC would take them in a best of 3 or 5. At least you're allowed a hiccup there.

Edited by Tortorella's Rant, 03 January 2013 - 02:49 PM.

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#2403 canucklax

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 02:52 PM

They won based on a single game which was played at a later date. That's the thing. They won when it mattered -- one game. Are the Americans truly the better team? I really don't think so. I think TC would take them in a best of 3 or 5. At least you're allowed a hiccup there.


The first game was a 2-1 goalie duel that very easily could've ended up as a win for either squad if Subban or Gibson made an extra mistake, now the U.S. won 5-1. That's 6-3 on aggregate, hard to argue Canada is the better team when their win was unconvincing and then get blown out
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#2404 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 03:01 PM

I didn't think it was possible to get blown out with RNH on the team and other players who would be in the NHL right now.
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#2405 Baercheese

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 03:04 PM

Don't try and bring this guy down. He's clearly hyped up on this guy. Yet he thinks I'm the one with the rose colored glasses on.

Anton Rodin also had as many points as Neidereiter in the world juniors. Who do you thinks gonna be the better player?

That's why the world juniors have to be taken with a grain of salt. It's easy to hype up prospects here.

Yet y'all keep bringing back Schroeder's "record".... :frantic:

Get this through your head: Gaudreau's been dominating every league he's been in.

But, it's pointless to argue this right now until he turns pro since he can't convince you with his NCAA stuff. Agree to disagree I guess

Edited by Sven Baertschi, 03 January 2013 - 03:09 PM.

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Johnny Gaudreau>any Casucks

Edler, Markstrom, Hansen, 2nd round pick 2014 to Islanders for Ryan Strome, 5th overall pick 2014

This is fairly even as well.

 


#2406 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 03:16 PM

The first game was a 2-1 goalie duel that very easily could've ended up as a win for either squad if Subban or Gibson made an extra mistake, now the U.S. won 5-1. That's 6-3 on aggregate, hard to argue Canada is the better team when their win was unconvincing and then get blown out


Even tougher to argue the Americans have a better team when they're .500 against their opponent.
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#2407 canucklax

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 03:21 PM

Even tougher to argue the Americans have a better team when they're .500 against their opponent.


2-1 loss to Canada, 2 shots either way makes it a win
2-1 loss to Russia, again an extra save, or powerplay leads to a win, not a loss
They also beat Slovakia better than Canada(9-3 vs 6-3) and Germany (8-0 vs 9-3)

4 shots go in a different way in the Canada and Russia games and the record is 4-0 not 2-2
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#2408 thema

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 03:31 PM

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There are sure a lot of poor sport losers here; we got beat fair and square, the US goalie was dynamite (Subban was not terrible either) and they capitalized on their chances whereas we did not. Also, I'm betting that the name Corrado would not have been uttered here once if he weren't Canuck property. Tough to play the blame game but I was relatively unimpressed by the coaching of Team Canada and our preoccupation with sending guys off the ice on stretchers (instead of scoring goals) and our insistence on hot dogging after goals (see the game against Russia) clearly angered the hockey gods. Me, I love these tournaments where the whole thing can go south because of one game. Keeps every game exciting.
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#2409 Rypien37

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 03:55 PM

Never been more disappointed in a Canadian Team. It's not that they lost, because everyone does at one point. It's how they had no heart. Even when we lost last year to Russia we fought to the very last second. This team seemed to give up as soon as they scored their first goal. Subban was awful and everyone else followed him. i don't know how players such as Murphy, Reinhart, Ritchie, McNiel, Lipon got on this team. They are horrible. Corrado and Sproul should have easily made this team. The coach had already made his team before the try outs and he gave the benefit to the doubt that Murphy would play good. But he didn't he was awful the whole tournament. Canada has to re-think how they make their teams. I don't care if we win or lose. I just want to see effort and passion. This team has none of it. With RNH this team probably wouldn't of even made it to semis. Pathetic.


/End of Rant


Subban awful? Yes, he was bad first 2 games, but has been a WALL since then. NONE of those goals were his fault and he had no chance.

You know nothing about hockey if you think he played bad.

Edited by Rypien37, 03 January 2013 - 03:57 PM.

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#2410 Primus099

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 04:23 PM

They won based on a single game which was played at a later date. That's the thing. They won when it mattered -- one game. Are the Americans truly the better team? I really don't think so. I think TC would take them in a best of 3 or 5. At least you're allowed a hiccup there.


Overall perhaps not, but they were the better team last night and that's all that matters. They were better than us when it counted
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#2411 thad

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 04:37 PM

Which is something they were talking about on TSN last night. If you're doing really well at something, you're in the 'groove', would you really want to stop your progress and take a break? I wouldn't. I'm not just saying that for the sake of argument. It seems like that break is taking a dump on teams because the last 5 of 7 gold medal winners didn't have a bye to the semis. But I do think it's a little 'silly' how you have a better record than a certain team and you're .500 head to head against that very team yet they're dubbed as 'better' than you are. I've never liked one game knock outs anyway. Always been a fan of at least a best of 3, 5, 7, etc. Obviously for the sake of time, only the best of 3 for the medal games would actually be feasible otherwise this tournament would last for over a month.

I hear what your saying.

Maybe it would be better if say the top 2 teams get home advantage through the quarters and semis. With the game day, day off sequence all the way through and the other quarter final winner plays in semis back to back after their quarterfinal win.

Gives the pool winners consistency and a slight advantage not playing back to back.. Might come back to bite after an upset though haha Latvia upsets us due to unfair reffing and gets the consistent day off playing a tired USA in the semis
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#2412 Wesker

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 04:51 PM

Stay classy Canada.

http://www.sbnation....ior-hockey-2013

:picard:
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#2413 canucklax

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 04:56 PM

Stay classy Canada.

http://www.sbnation....ior-hockey-2013

:picard:


gonna use that whenever someone brings up stupid Americans now.

The Steve Damiano tweet was over the line

Don Cherry(and many others) proving how ignorant they were regarding the CHL and U.S. involvement, some players came from there, but the vast majority came from NCAA/USHL programs
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#2414 Rypien37

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 05:09 PM

Stay classy Canada.

http://www.sbnation....ior-hockey-2013

:picard:


I don't get why you are here. Every year you beak the Canadians and cheer for the US. Sure that is no problem, but why do it on a CANADIAN teams message board?

Find your own American forum where there is plenty of hockey talk....oh wait....
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#2415 mrsasaki

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 06:01 PM

What would everyone think if Dale Hunter was the coach next year? I mean, as long as you're already ripping on Spott. I mean look at London's 25-game win streak or whatever that was, and look at what he did to the Capitals last year. Having a bit more defensive look couldn't hurt, looking at the past 4 years of 4 scoring lines. I mean, nothing could really affect us negatively. Also, I'm sure Gaunce would make the team if Hunter was the coach, then we'd all be happy, especially Mr. Reputable.
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#2416 Intoewsables

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 06:28 PM

Yet y'all keep bringing back Schroeder's "record".... :frantic:

Get this through your head: Gaudreau's been dominating every league he's been in.

But, it's pointless to argue this right now until he turns pro since he can't convince you with his NCAA stuff. Agree to disagree I guess


If you want a good laugh, go check out the first few pages of the Jordan Schroeder draft thread and you'll see DeNiro making virtually the same argument for Schroeder as you are for Gaudreau right now. If Gaudreau were a Canucks prospect, he'd be pumping the hell out of his tires.
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#2417 Baercheese

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 07:21 PM

If you want a good laugh, go check out the first few pages of the Jordan Schroeder draft thread and you'll see DeNiro making virtually the same argument for Schroeder as you are for Gaudreau right now. If Gaudreau were a Canucks prospect, he'd be pumping the hell out of his tires.

But but but Schroeder is playing in the AHL already!! WHERE IS GAUDREAU
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Johnny Gaudreau>any Casucks

Edler, Markstrom, Hansen, 2nd round pick 2014 to Islanders for Ryan Strome, 5th overall pick 2014

This is fairly even as well.

 


#2418 Pineapples

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:15 PM

2-1 loss to Canada, 2 shots either way makes it a win
2-1 loss to Russia, again an extra save, or powerplay leads to a win, not a loss
They also beat Slovakia better than Canada(9-3 vs 6-3) and Germany (8-0 vs 9-3)

4 shots go in a different way in the Canada and Russia games and the record is 4-0 not 2-2


Honestly, that's a poor way to compare it. What could have happened in a past loss doesn't mean anything. Neither does the goal difference when both teams beat Slovakia and Germany.

What really matters is that the U.S. defence is good, and Canada's is not. That was the difference in todays game.
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#2419 canucklax

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:18 PM

Honestly, that's a poor way to compare it. What could have happened in a past loss doesn't mean anything. Neither does the goal difference when both teams beat Slovakia and Germany.

What really matters is that the U.S. defence is good, and Canada's is not. That was the difference in todays game.


His argument was based solely on record, I was pointing out that the U.S. record wasn't indicative of how good they were and that the 2 losses very easily could've been wins
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#2420 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:38 PM

What would everyone think if Dale Hunter was the coach next year? I mean, as long as you're already ripping on Spott. I mean look at London's 25-game win streak or whatever that was, and look at what he did to the Capitals last year. Having a bit more defensive look couldn't hurt, looking at the past 4 years of 4 scoring lines. I mean, nothing could really affect us negatively. Also, I'm sure Gaunce would make the team if Hunter was the coach, then we'd all be happy, especially Mr. Reputable.


Not sure about the Mr. Reputable part, but I don't think it would hurt having Dale as Canada's coach next year.
Hell, Scotty Bowman can be our coach next year if it gets our boys to win.
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#2421 ice orca

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:45 PM

There are sure a lot of poor sport losers here; we got beat fair and square, the US goalie was dynamite (Subban was not terrible either) and they capitalized on their chances whereas we did not. Also, I'm betting that the name Corrado would not have been uttered here once if he weren't Canuck property. Tough to play the blame game but I was relatively unimpressed by the coaching of Team Canada and our preoccupation with sending guys off the ice on stretchers (instead of scoring goals) and our insistence on hot dogging after goals (see the game against Russia) clearly angered the hockey gods. Me, I love these tournaments where the whole thing can go south because of one game. Keeps every game exciting.

Corrado opened the eyes of a lot of people and pundits who are not Canuck fans. After the way he played in camp a lot of people in Hockey world know who he is now and are still scratching their heads why he was cut.
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#2422 playboi19

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:48 PM

But but but Schroeder is playing in the AHL already!! WHERE IS GAUDREAU


What the hell, is this Nathan Gerbe's long lost brother.
Same school, pretty much same stats.

Gaudreau is 5 foot 6
Gerbe is 5 foot 5

Edited by playboi19, 03 January 2013 - 08:49 PM.

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#2423 Baercheese

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:56 PM

What the hell, is this Nathan Gerbe's long lost brother.
Same school, pretty much same stats.

Gaudreau is 5 foot 6
Gerbe is 5 foot 5

Jerry York, a legendary coach in BC, has had success with smaller players. Gionta, Gerbe, Atkinson, and now Gaudreau
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Johnny Gaudreau>any Casucks

Edler, Markstrom, Hansen, 2nd round pick 2014 to Islanders for Ryan Strome, 5th overall pick 2014

This is fairly even as well.

 


#2424 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:07 PM

The first game was a 2-1 goalie duel that very easily could've ended up as a win for either squad if Subban or Gibson made an extra mistake, now the U.S. won 5-1. That's 6-3 on aggregate, hard to argue Canada is the better team when their win was unconvincing and then get blown out


Absolutely, USA played just as good as us in the last game, and in this game they dominated us.

USA >Canada (In this Tourney)

Just gotta admit it they are the better team this year.

Yet y'all keep bringing back Schroeder's "record".... :frantic:

Get this through your head: Gaudreau's been dominating every league he's been in.

But, it's pointless to argue this right now until he turns pro since he can't convince you with his NCAA stuff. Agree to disagree I guess


Yeah it is kinda tough to prove, cause in NCAA size doesn't really play much of a factor in success. Both have had successful junior/NCAA career's but it doesn't really mean much when you try to project their success in the pro game.

Schroeder has already made the transition and proven he can play and succeed in the pro game, just gotta wait and see if Gaudreau can do the same, unless you wanna pick apart each players games and compare them, there's not really much more you can argue from either side.

gonna use that whenever someone brings up stupid Americans now.

The Steve Damiano tweet was over the line

Don Cherry(and many others) proving how ignorant they were regarding the CHL and U.S. involvement, some players came from there, but the vast majority came from NCAA/USHL programs


Atleast Cherry admitted we lost fair and square, unlike alot of the other's who just raged about loss.

I can see the argument that we develop them and stuff cause we do develop alot of good players for the US, but the US collage/University system also develops alot of good players for us (Bieksa, Toews, Schwartz come to mind)

So I don't think we should complain about it, they do the same for us so it is an even playing field IMO, they won fair and square and that should be the end of it.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 03 January 2013 - 09:08 PM.

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#2425 spliced

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:15 PM

Sweden with a pretty impressive tourney so far considering all the defencemen they are missing. I thought Kucherov had a really good tournament for Russia. He wasn't as flashy as some of his teammates but he was making things happen every game they played.

I was happy to see Sweden win but the gold medal game would have been pretty exciting to have Russia playing at home against the US.

I don't really know what to expect out of the Bronze game. Will either team put much effort into it? who knows.
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#2426 canucklax

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:29 PM

Atleast Cherry admitted we lost fair and square, unlike alot of the other's who just raged about loss.

I can see the argument that we develop them and stuff cause we do develop alot of good players for the US, but the US collage/University system also develops alot of good players for us (Bieksa, Toews, Schwartz come to mind)

So I don't think we should complain about it, they do the same for us so it is an even playing field IMO, they won fair and square and that should be the end of it.

The thing is most U.S. players that go play junior, first play for the USNTDP, so its 17/18 years of U.S. training and then they get drafted and their NHL club tells them to go play junior for a year or 2 before turning pro. Of the 10 CHL players on the roster this year, Galchenyuk is the only one that went straight to the CHL, all others played USNTDP or USHL.

And you are right, many Canadians cross over to get an education and play hockey at the same time
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#2427 Kyosama

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:29 PM

Sweden with a pretty impressive tourney so far considering all the defencemen they are missing. I thought Kucherov had a really good tournament for Russia. He wasn't as flashy as some of his teammates but he was making things happen every game they played.

I was happy to see Sweden win but the gold medal game would have been pretty exciting to have Russia playing at home against the US.

I don't really know what to expect out of the Bronze game. Will either team put much effort into it? who knows.


I've said this before but I truly believe Sweden is giving Canada a run at being the best hockey nation. Guaranteed silver here, won gold last year, won the Olympics in 2006, 2 most dominant teams in the NHL in the past while (Canucks, Red Wings) are built off of Swedish players. But the thing that really stands out is the fact that Sweden boasts a population of 4 million people. Compare that to Canada's 33 million, Russia's 140 million and US's 330 million and it's just mind boggling how much talent they are producing for their size.
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#2428 canucklax

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:34 PM

I've said this before but I truly believe Sweden is giving Canada a run at being the best hockey nation. Guaranteed silver here, won gold last year, won the Olympics in 2006, 2 most dominant teams in the NHL in the past while (Canucks, Red Wings) are built off of Swedish players. But the thing that really stands out is the fact that Sweden boasts a population of 4 million people. Compare that to Canada's 33 million, Russia's 140 million and US's 330 million and it's just mind boggling how much talent they are producing for their size.


Think that's Finland you are talking about, I seem to remember an announcer in the US-Finland pre-tourney game pointing out the stat of per capita NHL'ers and Finland was highest.

Sweden is 9.5 million so still small but huge turnout of NHL'ers
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#2429 wshdrvvn

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:45 PM

I've been a hockey fan in des moines iowa my whole life and i can tell you from my point of view the USNTDP has been at its best within the last 5 years. The program is getting more advanced and polished every year. Players go to juniors to hone skills they already possess. For canadians to try and take credit for this teams success is pretty narrow. No doubt the availability of the chl to these players is a big advantage but top end players need top end competition regardless of nationality. Specifically to the people on twitter saying get the americans out, why would you want a lesser brand of hockey throughout the year for a theoretical better WJC result?
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#2430 Kyosama

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:51 PM

Think that's Finland you are talking about, I seem to remember an announcer in the US-Finland pre-tourney game pointing out the stat of per capita NHL'ers and Finland was highest.

Sweden is 9.5 million so still small but huge turnout of NHL'ers


Definitely meant Sweden, just got my numbers confused, thanks for the correction. My bad :)
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