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Norwegian Mass Murderer Breivik Complains About Treatment


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#1 nucklehead

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:27 AM

http://ca.news.yahoo...UgmFz_jDblmlYNd#_=_

Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik accused prison officers of trying to drive him to suicide in conditions he describes as "a mini Abu Ghraib."
Breivik wrote a 27-page letter addressed to prison officials, a copy of which was obtained by The Associated Press on Friday.
"If it wasn't for the fact that I am an exceptionally patient person, I would most likely have lost my mind in pure frustration," Breivik said in the letter dated Oct. 15 that was updated on Oct. 26 and Oct. 30. "Anyway, there are limits to what a person can take."
Breivik wrote that he is frustrated that guards do not co-operate with his carefully planned daily schedule, where he times his various activities down to the minute...
The self-confessed killer described numerous prison practices as "degrading" in his letter, including that he is watched when swallowing his vitamin pills, that he's not allowed a mop to clean his cell and that he is subjected to daily strip searches, sometimes by female prison guards.
Keeping up his personal hygiene is also a challenge, he said.
"Use of a toothbrush and electric shaver is always under supervision. One is therefore under mental pressure to finish quickly as the guards are tapping their feet outside the cell ...

Seems to me that he got off relatively light. Norwegian laws seems overly compassionate in this case at least.

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Edited by nucklehead, 26 November 2012 - 07:41 AM.

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#2 Aleksandr Pistoletov

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:24 AM

Holy crap, they watch him brush his teeth AND they aren't submissive to his personal daily schedule? I can definitely understand the Abu Ghirab comparison, might as well be a concentration camp with the inhumane treatment. If I were him I'd write bad reviews for this hotel prison on Orbitz.com, they could possibly downgrade it to 3 stars if that prison gets any more inhumane.
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#3 Jai604

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:29 AM

Maybe the he should have thought about that before murdering all those people.

No sympathy at all, and it's laughable that he thinks he deserves any.
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#4 CanuckinEdm

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:41 AM

Im surprised hes still alive, if it was in jail with him id off him its only another 7 years in the Norwegein prison ranch.

Edited by CanuckinEdm, 26 November 2012 - 09:46 AM.

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#5 Gumballthechewy

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:00 AM

Aww, poor baby.
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#6 debluvscanucks

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:05 AM

Haha, this ^ is exactly what I was going to type.

Gee, so he can't have his own way? Damn, stamp your feet a little, maybe that'll work?

If he doesn't like people watching him, he likely should have enjoyed that privacy while living his life in a crime free fashion. Guess what?....you snipe people and you are slightly inconvenienced in that. Sorry?

Perhaps a little water boarding will make him rethink terrible treatment - atm, he should shut his yap and enjoy the privilege of brushing his teeth. Or even the fact that he still has teeth. Those subjected to "torture" are generally strapped to a fixture and anything electric is horrific, not for personal hygiene.
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#7 Shift-4

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:19 AM

This just in.

His victims are still dead.
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#8 D-Money

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:21 AM

I'm sure that the guards take every opportunity to annoy Brevik in a manner that won't fall under abuse.

Good on 'em.
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#9 Kran

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:43 AM

Oh my, the poor bastard can't even do time without prison guards harassing him? What did he do to deserve such treatment?! Oh right, he murdered all those people and then some. Eat crap, Breivik

Honestly, here are some pictures of his cell

http://www.thesun.co...r-massacre.html

Yeah, that's a real nightmare

Edited by Kran, 26 November 2012 - 10:44 AM.

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#10 Hobble

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:54 AM

Who is at a greater inconvenience? Breivik for having someone watch him while he brushes his teeth, or all the people who had their lives ended for no good reason?!?

The guy should rot in a hole in the ground.
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#11 The Hornet

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:02 AM

I still don't get why they just don't shoot the guy.

Wasting time and tax dollars on this guy.

Edited by The Hornet, 26 November 2012 - 11:03 AM.

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#12 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:41 AM

Some college dorms aren't that nice. He should count himself lucky he's alive at all. But if his "treatment" is driving him nuts, then it's justice. He sounds like a typical bully. Refuse to be intimidated by him he acts like a little child.

I do think society needs a separate part of law either for mass-murder or genocide. That there is life in prison with no parole, and you must work 50 hour work weeks making license plates, or machining or something. Or you get the death penalty. It's pretty clear nothing is going to make him a non-violent, productive member of society.
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#13 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:58 AM

He'll get what he wants considering he got a slap on the wrist.
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#14 Jägermeister

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 12:02 PM

He's just a media whore.
He'll do anything under his power to get some attention. The best course of action for Norwegians is just to ignore anything this loon says.
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#15 Wetcoaster

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 12:04 PM

Not a surprise considering that although the court ruled him legally sane, he has mental disorders not rising to the level that would have excused his criminal conduct. This seems a manifestation of those mental disorders.

After a lengthy judgement last several hours, Judge Arntzen said the court considered Breivik to suffer from anti-social and "narcissistic personality characteristics" but not psychosis, as one expert team had found.


The judge said the court had failed to confirm some classic symptoms of schizophrenia, such as full paranoid delusions, hallucinations or the use of neologisms or made-up terms and phrases.


She also said the panel was not swayed by the view of Breivik himself, who had said that being committed to a psychiatric ward would be "worse than death itself" but smiled when he was sentenced to jail.

Judge Arntzen said the five-member panel had made up its own mind after hearing two contradictory reports on the mental health of Breivik, who killed 77 people in a bomb and gun rampage last year.


The judge said that the first psychologists' team had judged that, with his talk of looming civil war, the "intensity of ideas can indicate delusions".


"An alternative interpretation would be to understand his intensity as some sort of fanatical and rightwing extremist world view... with a grandiose and narcissistic personality," said Arntzen.

http://www.telegraph...found-sane.html

Edited by Wetcoaster, 26 November 2012 - 12:06 PM.

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#16 Drybone

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 12:10 PM

Good research wet.

Plus 1 for your efforts
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#17 uber_pwnzor

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:42 PM

Perhaps a little water boarding will make him rethink terrible treatment - atm, he should shut his yap and enjoy the privilege of brushing his teeth. Or even the fact that he still has teeth. Those subjected to "torture" are generally strapped to a fixture and anything electric is horrific, not for personal hygiene.


What the hell are you saying here? That we should tourture him? Yeah, that's the kind of society I wanna live in, lets tourture all our convicts...

Seriously... He did some horrible things, and they cannot be forgiven, but the right way to go is not to physically hurt him. That'd just make things worse...
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#18 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:45 PM

What the hell are you saying here? That we should tourture him? Yeah, that's the kind of society I wanna live in, lets tourture all our convicts...

Seriously... He did some horrible things, and they cannot be forgiven, but the right way to go is not to physically hurt him. That'd just make things worse...


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#19 Gumballthechewy

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:57 PM

I wholly support the death sentence in cases like his.
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#20 debluvscanucks

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:07 PM

What the hell are you saying here? That we should tourture him? Yeah, that's the kind of society I wanna live in, lets tourture all our convicts...

Seriously... He did some horrible things, and they cannot be forgiven, but the right way to go is not to physically hurt him. That'd just make things worse...


Yes, sarcasm. If you actually read the article, he's suggesting that his living conditions are similar to Abu Ghraib and I was merely pointing out that how inappropriate that is in comparison. And, if you look at the pictures posted, you'd see that this narcissist is making a mockery of the term "prison sentence" and he is anything but being tortured. Christ, ask any homeless guy if he'd like to be tortured in this fashion....
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#21 Hyzer

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:10 PM

He's a mission-oriented psychopath who just wants to stir up the media. Pay him no attention.
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#22 Horny Manatee

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:22 PM

As wetcoaster pointed out, he has personal issues. Not unlike Rick Rypien did, however Rypien is praised on this site but this guy gets all the hate.

Perspective.
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#23 The Brahma Bull

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:28 PM

As wetcoaster pointed out, he has personal issues. Not unlike Rick Rypien did, however Rypien is praised on this site but this guy gets all the hate.

Perspective.


Don't even try to compare these situations in the slightest.

'Mental health issues? zOMGZ let's throw them all in the same broad category.'

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Edited by The Brahma Bull, 26 November 2012 - 02:29 PM.

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#24 Peaches

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:28 PM

Honestly, here are some pictures of his cell

http://www.thesun.co...r-massacre.html


Man, he has it pretty rough there.
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#25 butters

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:28 PM

As wetcoaster pointed out, he has personal issues. Not unlike Rick Rypien did, however Rypien is praised on this site but this guy gets all the hate.

Perspective.


Rypien was a mass murderer?
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#26 Peaches

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:30 PM

Don't even try to compare these situations in the slightest.

'Mental health issues? zOMGZ let's throw them all in the same broad category.'

Posted Image



Exactly.

Rypien didn't murder anyone. The other guy did.


EDIT:

Off topic, but didn't you leave CDC?

Edited by -Trapped In CDC-, 26 November 2012 - 02:31 PM.

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#27 Wetcoaster

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 05:23 PM

I wholly support the death sentence in cases like his.

I am opposed to capital punishment in all cases. Period. Full stop.


An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. ~ Mahatma Gandhi

There are a number of reasons the death penalty has been abolished in the vast majority of civilized western democracies.

If murder is wrong (an offence in malum se - i.e. wrong in itself) then state sanctioned murder as punishment is worse because the state should know better. The idea of the state killing its own citizens as punishment for a crime (any crime) is barbaric.

Like virtually all enlightened western democracies (some US states are notable exceptions) Canada has rejected capital punishment politically and the Supreme Court of Canada has determined that is it unconstitutional. We have seen too many people wrongfully convicted of murder who were subsequently found innocent to be comfortable with capital punishment. Once the state has killed a person somehow "oops" just does not seem enough. It was just such a case that led Britain to abolish capital punishment.

Almost all European and many Pacific Area states (including Australia, New Zealand and Timor Leste), and Canada have abolished capital punishment. South Korea abolished it about 2 years ago. The United States is one of only two industrialized democracies that still have it (the other, Japan has a de-facto moratorium in effect),

I am not sure I would want to be on board with this group of countries who impose capital punishment:

* China
* Iran
* Saudi Arabia
* Pakistan
* USA (some states)
* Iraq
* Viet Nam
* Yemen
* Afghanistan
* Libya
* Japan
* Syria
* Sudan
* Bangladesh
* Somalia
* Equatorial Guinea
* Singapore
* Kuwait
* Indonesia
* Botswana
* Belarus
* Ethiopia
* Egypt
* North Korea


The Supreme Court of Canada has made that abundantly clear in the recent cases dealing with extradition and the death penalty that it will not pass constitutional muster under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. See the death penalty cases of United States of America v. Burns, [2001] 1 S.C.R. 283 and Suresh v. Canada (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration), 2002 SCC 1, [2002] 1 S.C.R. 3.

Atif Rafay and Sebastian Burns were not surrendered to the United States until the state of Washington agreed to take the death penalty off the table. Britain, France and Australia have done the same with extradition requests made by the USA as well.

As the Supreme Court of Canada noted international law is moving towards the Canadian position.

Adopted and proclaimed by General Assembly resolution 44/128 of 15 December 1989

The States Parties to the present Protocol,

Believing that abolition of the death penalty contributes to enhancement of human dignity and progressive development of human rights,

Recalling article 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, adopted on 10 December 1948, and article 6 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, adopted on 16 December 1966,

Noting that article 6 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights refers to abolition of the death penalty in terms that strongly suggest that abolition is desirable,

Convinced that all measures of abolition of the death penalty should be considered as progress in the enjoyment of the right to life,

Desirous to undertake hereby an international commitment to abolish the death penalty,

Have agreed as follows:

Article 1

1. No one within the jurisdiction of a State Party to the present Protocol shall be executed.

2. Each State Party shall take all necessary measures to abolish the death penalty within its jurisdiction.


In Europe the European Union bans the death penalty for members under the Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms (ECHR) and is a major force pushing for a world-wide ban with Italy leading the way at the United Nations.
http://uk.reuters.co...192317420070201


Protocol No. 13 to the ECHR

Article 1 – Abolition of the death penalty

The death penalty shall be abolished. No one shall be condemned to such penalty or executed.

Article 2 – Prohibition of derogations

No derogation from the provisions of this Protocol shall be made under Article 15 of the Convention.

Article 3 – Prohibition of reservations

No reservation may be made under Article 57 of the Convention in respect of the provisions of this Protocol.


As the Supreme Court of Canada has noted if an innocent person is executed there is no "do over" and there is convincing evidence of wrongful convictions. State sanctioned murder does not seem to be in the cards in Canada absent a constitutional amendment which I cannot see being passed under the amending formula. The only legally available option in Canada is incarceration and for those who remain a danger, continued incarceration.

If murderers cannot be rehabilitated and remain a danger to the public then you keep them locked up - rehabilitation is at the bottom of considerations for persons convicted of murder. That is why murder in Canada carries a sentence of life imprisonment and there is provision for the designation as a dangerous offender with an indeterminate sentence for other violent offences.

Most murderers in Canada do not get a second chance (and it is exceedingly rare for persons convicted of first degree murder where parole eligibility is set at 25 years). Those that do get paroled go through a rigorous screening process and since it is a life sentence even if they are paroled they are under supervision for the rest of their lives.

As to why parole at all for first degree murderers when the death penalty was abolished. The union for prison guards were concerned that without some faint hope of release it would be impossible to control inmates convicted of murder without the carrot of the possibility of future release on parole. As the Liberal Solicitor General of the day Warren Allmand noted during the abolition debate:

I disagree with those who argue that a life sentence with no parole eligibility for 25 years is worse than death. A period of incarceration, with hope of parole, and with the built-in additional incentive for the inmate, and protection for the guards (is necessary).


As the statistics show murderers in Canada spend on average 28.4 years in prison which pretty well matches up with US figures of murderers with no chance of parole spending 29 years in prison while US murderers who do have an opportunity of parole spend 18.5 years in prison. As it is murderers in Canada spend way more time in jail than other western democracies that have abolished the death penalty.

Before abolition of the death penalty killers who avoided execution but received life sentences for the old offence of capital murder were being held, on average, for slightly over 13 years.

In comparison to most other Western democracies, sentences of imprisonment in Canada are lengthy and have been increasing in recent years. A 1999 international comparison of the average time served in custody by an offender on a life sentence for first degree murder shows that Canada exceeds the average time served in all countries surveyed including the United States , with the exception of U.S. offenders serving life sentences without benefit of parole.

Average Time Spent in Custody
Australia 		 14.8 years 	   		United States 	  
Belgium 		  12.7 years 	   		life without parole 		  29 years
England 		  14.4 years 	   		life with parole				18.5 years
New Zealand	 11 years 	   			
Scotland 		 11.2 years 	   		Canada					28.4 years
Sweden 				  12 years

http://www.justice.g.../doc_31690.html

We do not kill persons convicted of murder because we are civilized society and we have evolved.

The official position of the Government of Canada:

The abolition of the death penalty is a significant development in the advancement of human rights. Everyone's right to life is enshrined in Section 7 of our Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. This fundamental right is also enunciated in Article 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and Article 6 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. Everyone's right to life is enshrined in Section 7 of our Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. This fundamental right is also enunciated in Article 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and Article 6 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

http://www.csc-scc.g...rt/08-eng.shtml

Prime Minister Pierre Elliott Trudeau said in Parliament during the debate leading to the abolition of the death penalty in Canada in 1976:

Well, you may say, let's execute the murderer for the crime he has committed. Let's take a life for a life. Let's remove a savage animal from the human race. I do not deny that society has the right to punish a criminal, and the right to make the punishment fit the crime, but to kill a man for punishment alone is an act of revenge. Nothing else . . .

My primary concern here is not compassion for the murderer. My concern is for the society which adopts vengeance as an acceptable motive for its collective behaviour. If we make that choice, we will snuff out some of that boundless hope and confidence in ourselves and other people which has marked our maturing as a free people.


Earlier in 1966 a compromise bill that limited the death sentence to murderers of on-duty police officers and prison guards passed by the slimmest margins. A young justice minister named Pierre Elliott Trudeau called it "one step further from violence and barbarism."

In 1976 we took a giant step away from violence and abolished the barbaric practice of state sponsored murder like the vast majority of civilized nations and we refuse to return fugitives to face the death penalty in jurisdictions that are unenlightened (as do other abolitionist countries such as Britain, France and Australia).

Parliament again reaffirmed its commitment to abolish the death penalty when a motion to reintroduce it was defeated during a free vote in the House of Commons in 1987.

Over the years public support for return of the death penalty has been steadily dropping. In an extensive poll in 1998 it was found 48 per cent of Canadians support the death penalty, 47 per cent are opposed and 6 per cent are unsure. But 8 years later:

Posted Image

Gallup, 2006

And more to the point the death penalty is not an issue that is in forefront of concern for Canadians - probably because we have not executed a person in Canada since 1962. In 1996, a cross-section of 1500 Canadians were asked to name the major concerns and issues facing the country; not one named reinstatement of the death penalty as a priority.

In the USA v. Burns case the Supreme Court of Canada found that the death penalty is unconstitutional under section 7 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. As noted:


"Legal systems have to live with the possibility of error. The unique feature of capital punishment is that it puts beyond recall the possibility of correction."

And because there's no way to remedy a wrongful execution, the court continued, capital punishment violates Canada's protection of "life, liberty and . . . fundamental justice (under section 7 of the Charter)."

"The recent and continuing disclosures of wrongful convictions for murder in Canada and the United States provide tragic testimony to the fallibility of the legal system, despite its elaborate safeguards for the protection of the innocent."


Since abolition, 6 Canadian prisoners convicted of first-degree murder have been released on grounds of innocence. Two were incarcerated for more than 10 years before their innocence was established, after wrongful conviction for crimes that would likely have resulted in their execution if Canada had retained the death penalty. And since abolition not a single person convicted of murder who has been paroled has committed a subsequent murder.

In the USA, 138 people sentenced to death have subsequently been found innocent since 1970 - some posthumously.

The Supreme Court of Canada ruled it has a duty to protect the innocent. This duty is based in part on section 7 - the right to life and security of the person and section 11 of the Charter, which includes, for example, the presumption of innocence. To illustrate this point, cases of wrongful convictions were cited from Canada (the case of Donald Marshall, Jr. was specifically mentioned), the US and the United Kingdom. While "These miscarriages of justice of course represent a tiny and wholly exceptional fraction of the workload of Canadian courts in murder cases," the Court wrote, "where capital punishment is sought, the state's execution of even one innocent person is one too many."

The removal of capital punishment from the Canadian Criminal Code in 1976 has not led to an increase in the murder rate in Canada as opponents of abolition feared. In fact, Statistics Canada reports that the murder rate has generally been declining since the mid-1970s. In 2006, the national murder rate in Canada was 1.85 homicides per 100,000 population, compared to the mid-1970s when it was around 3.0.

And the murder rate fell again in the last 5 year period as Statistics Canada reported in October 2011 that Canada's homicide rate has dipped to its lowest level since 1966 - the homicide rate fell to 1.62 per 100,000 population. This puts paid to the arguments in favour of a return to the death penalty as a matter of deterrence (which BTW would be unconstitutional based on the latest SCC case law).
http://ottawa.ctv.ca...?hub=OttawaHome

The other interesting statistic is that although the murder rate dropped courts are more willing to find a person guilty of murder. The overall conviction rate for first-degree murder doubled in the decade following abolition (from under 10% to approximately 20%), so it seems courts are more willing to convict for murder now that they are not compelled to make life-and-death decisions.

The death penalty is clearly not a deterrent as study after study shows so the only rationale is imposition for vengeance. Even the Association of Canadian Chiefs of Police agrees with that saying:

"It is futile to base an argument for reinstatement on grounds of deterrence".

All that leaves is vengeance as Prime Minister Trudeau has stated and that is not justice.

So yes I consider state sanctioned murder to be barbaric - as does the Parliament of Canada, the Supreme Court of Canada and noted Canadians such as Trudeau, Pearson and Diefenbaker and we have enshrined it in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms which is part of the supreme law of Canada. Hence it has been abolished and next year it will be half a century since Canada last hung a convicted murderer - state sanctioned murder as punishment for a crime will not be re-enacted unless the Charter is abolished. And the chance of that happening? Slim and none - and slim has left the building.

The death penalty has no efficacy in terms of deterrence, nor does it impact crime rates and only serves the purpose of satisfying some base desire for vengeance.

In summary I prefer the high road of civilization to the low road of vengeance and barbarism. YMMV.
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#28 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:40 PM

You have all these rules and you'll think they'll save you....


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#29 Gumballthechewy

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:55 PM

I am opposed to capital punishment in all cases. Period. Full stop


Whether or not it deters violent crime, people like him, who have no regard for human life, don't deserve life themselves. Hitler is this this guys hero and idol, had Hitler been taken alive should he have been spared? Not in my opinion.

The world is getting to 'soft' and 'politically correct' for my liking to tell the truth.
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#30 Wetcoaster

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:09 PM

Whether or not it deters violent crime, people like him, who have no regard for human life, don't deserve life themselves. Hitler is this this guys hero and idol, had Hitler been taken alive should he have been spared? Not in my opinion.

The world is getting to 'soft' and 'politically correct' for my liking to tell the truth.

I prefer to think that we have evolved and eschewed vengeance and no longer confuse it with justice..

As I noted above:

If murder is wrong (an offence in malum se - i.e. wrong in itself) then state sanctioned murder as punishment is worse because the state should know better. The idea of the state killing its own citizens as punishment for a crime (any crime) is barbaric.

Prime Minister Pierre Elliott Trudeau said in Parliament during the debate leading to the abolition of the death penalty in Canada in 1976:

Well, you may say, let's execute the murderer for the crime he has committed. Let's take a life for a life. Let's remove a savage animal from the human race. I do not deny that society has the right to punish a criminal, and the right to make the punishment fit the crime,but to kill a man for punishment alone is an act of revenge. Nothing else . . .

My primary concern here is not compassion for the murderer. My concern is for the society which adopts vengeance as an acceptable motive for its collective behaviour. If we make that choice, we will snuff out some of that boundless hope and confidence in ourselves and other people which has marked our maturing as a free people.


Earlier in 1966 a compromise bill that limited the death sentence to murderers of on-duty police officers and prison guards passed by the slimmest margins. A young justice minister named Pierre Elliott Trudeau called it "one step further from violence and barbarism."

The death penalty is clearly not a deterrent as study after study shows so the only rationale is imposition for vengeance. Even the Association of Canadian Chiefs of Police agrees with that saying:

"It is futile to base an argument for reinstatement on grounds of deterrence".

All that leaves is vengeance as Prime Minister Trudeau has stated and that is not justice.

In summary I prefer the high road of civilization to the low road of vengeance and barbarism. YMMV.
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