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Convicted animal killer to be released in months


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#31 debluvscanucks

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:29 PM

Also: I don't see how you can throw someone in jail for fantasizing about committing a crime...


Not jail. She obviously needs intensive treatment/medication/monitoring and, unless someone is commited to being with her 24/7, she poses a serious threat to the public and should be institutionalized during the course of that.

As for "can't and won't"......our comments are directed at the fact that this needs fixing. It's no good to throw out a "we can't (afford it)" excuse anymore. Priorities, it's all about priorities.
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#32 elvis15

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:33 PM

She has been quoted as saying that Booth is her favourite Canuck.

webkit-fake-url://D9C727EF-A7E7-4C9A-BBD2-ABA8FC20FDE3/imgres.jpg

I don't think you did that right. And I'm not going to click on anything that says "fake-url" so good luck with that.

Also: I don't see how you can throw someone in jail for fantasizing about committing a crime...

Hence why they were only able to sentence her for a short time for the animal cruelty and extend that slightly based on psychiatric evaluations and extensive set up of her parole requirements. If they were able to convict her for fantasizing about murder, then she'd be locked away for much longer.

Certainly, it'd be an option for conspiring to commit murder to lock her up again, and if she's caught violating parole or talking about such fantasy's again then they'd have prior reason to do something - even if it's just to commit her. She's in the system now, and it's easier to deal with someone like this once they've logged as potentially unstable and previously having committed a crime.

Edited by elvis15, 03 December 2012 - 03:34 PM.

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#33 Sanford

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 04:24 PM

Instead of having to have her "watched" her entire life and roam free just lock her up. Even that crim professor said this is the making of a serial killer!
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#34 MoneypuckOverlord

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:14 PM

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1.1061742!/httpImage/image.jpeg_gen/derivatives/landscape_225/image.jpeg look at her face!
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Players Nikolaj Ehlers have been compared too by the fan base of the Vancouver Canucks.

 

1 Pavel Bure

2 Markus Naslund

3 Nathan Mackkinon

4 Jonathan Drouin.

5 Jonathan Tavares

 

http://bleacherrepor...d-top-prospects

combine results.  Ehlers 5'11 162 lbs of solid rock.  


#35 hudson bay rules

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:30 PM

http://bc.ctvnews.ca..._225/image.jpeg look at her face!


yeah, she's probably a psycho but should we incarcerate all those that look like one as well?

grow up
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#36 Truculence

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:47 AM

http://bc.ctvnews.ca..._225/image.jpeg look at her face!

A Lost marathon will do that to you.
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#37 Pouria

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:12 AM

Locking people up and pumping them full of drugs hasn't proven to be effectual in many cases. Out patient therapy with strict conditions seems to be appropriate in this case,


Tell that to the family of the victim killed by Magnotta. Am sure they will understand about its effectiveness.
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#38 Pouria

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:16 AM

Agreed, or anything really as long as they keep her locked up if she continues on a downward spiral.


You mean lock her up only if she continues to kills animals or perhaps humans. What a great country we live in. Kill animals, get off scot-free and only get locked up if you kill more animals or humans. Am guessing you probably wouldn't mind having her as a neighbor.
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#39 Pouria

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:24 AM

Also: I don't see how you can throw someone in jail for fantasizing about committing a crime...


But it should be completely ignored and not taken seriously?? Man, we have learned so much from that Magnotta case. You remember the guy right? The one who fantasized about killing a human being and was captured only after dismembering a human and sending the parts to schools and government offices. If only fantasizing about killing humans was a normal human behavior...
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#40 Pouria

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:30 AM

Not jail. She obviously needs intensive treatment/medication/monitoring and, unless someone is commited to being with her 24/7, she poses a serious threat to the public and should be institutionalized during the course of that.

As for "can't and won't"......our comments are directed at the fact that this needs fixing. It's no good to throw out a "we can't (afford it)" excuse anymore. Priorities, it's all about priorities.


True. Also, not letting psychos and criminals back on the street without proper rehabilitation should be part of the government's top priority. It would be such a BS to not be able to afford locking up criminals or killers because we "can't afford it".
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#41 Pouria

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:35 AM

Instead of having to have her "watched" her entire life and roam free just lock her up. Even that crim professor said this is the making of a serial killer!


Imagine if this girl went on a killing spree and terrorized the public. Then the government's answer to the mistake of letting her loose would be "we couldn't afford it..." lol! We can afford to pay for Olympics and pay for the terrorist security fund or building of Casinos but we just weren't able to afford institutionalizing this girl. Pretty pathetic in mind.
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#42 hudson bay rules

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:51 AM

Tell that to the family of the victim killed by Magnotta. Am sure they will understand about its effectiveness.


Are we gonna keep everyone locked up in perpetuity because we think they may offend or re-offend? We don't even keep murders incarcerated for life for the most part. How often have we heard "he was a quiet guy and a good tenant"? Who's to know who is a high risk re-offender? Torturing and killing animals is considered as one of the precursors to violence towards people so maybe we should lock up all these psychos as well now huh?

She's going thru the system and her psychiatrist can have her detained anytime he/she deems it necessary. If she is thought to be a risk to herself or others she will be won't see the light of day. But since crap happens we should lock up 10's of thousands more just in case , right?
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#43 debluvscanucks

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:25 AM

She is already considered to be of risk to others, that's been determined (that the likelihood that she'll continue on this path is strong). She has no remorse and sounds to be very disconnected - there are obviously deep psychological issues here that need addressing before you move to square two, letting her wander around in public. She has tortured and killed living creatures and was found with weapons and plans for further action. If it was just a fantasy, fine....but she's put her plan into action, at least in the beginning stages. That's a red flag, not to be taken lightly.

We're not saying "forever", we're saying in these initial stages. For crying out loud, she's just been recently identified with these serious issues/disorders and initial assessments are in the works...during the period of "figuring out" - yes, keep her safely out of the public and formulate a plan. Start chipping away to see if there's any hope of rehabilitation and then determine what's best. But to simply impose strict regulations on her and risk that she doesn't abide by them - that's not really doing anyone any good, including her.
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#44 Mr. Ambien

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:10 AM

Are we gonna keep everyone locked up in perpetuity because we think they may offend or re-offend? We don't even keep murders incarcerated for life for the most part. How often have we heard "he was a quiet guy and a good tenant"? Who's to know who is a high risk re-offender? Torturing and killing animals is considered as one of the precursors to violence towards people so maybe we should lock up all these psychos as well now huh?

She's going thru the system and her psychiatrist can have her detained anytime he/she deems it necessary. If she is thought to be a risk to herself or others she will be won't see the light of day. But since crap happens we should lock up 10's of thousands more just in case , right?

Indeed, the slippery slope is worrisome. Risk is associated with living.

Edited by zaibatsu, 04 December 2012 - 11:10 AM.

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#45 hudson bay rules

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:20 PM

We're not saying "forever", we're saying in these initial stages.


do you not even read your own quotes?

"Nevertheless, to know all is not to forgive all, and certainly not to permit all. Bourque is a threat to everyone around her. Permanent institutionalization at Her Majesty’s pleasure would seem the obvious, socially responsible course to take."
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#46 Jägermeister

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:22 PM

Are we gonna keep everyone locked up in perpetuity because we think they may offend or re-offend? We don't even keep murders incarcerated for life for the most part. How often have we heard "he was a quiet guy and a good tenant"? Who's to know who is a high risk re-offender? Torturing and killing animals is considered as one of the precursors to violence towards people so maybe we should lock up all these psychos as well now huh?

She's going thru the system and her psychiatrist can have her detained anytime he/she deems it necessary. If she is thought to be a risk to herself or others she will be won't see the light of day. But since crap happens we should lock up 10's of thousands more just in case , right?


We know she is a high risk re-offender, she is known to be a threat to herself or others and that isn't going to change. This isn't just some delinquent who might commit more crimes if they are necessary for themselves, this is an extremely disturbed individual who has a set of extremely maladaptive psychological disorders that have all been proven extremely impossible or completely impossible to cure.
Even though she may not evolve to killing people, she has already shown a history of carrying out sadistic acts towards animals, and given the opportunity, she will continue to carry out these acts.
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#47 hudson bay rules

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:49 PM

We know she is a high risk re-offender, she is known to be a threat to herself or others and that isn't going to change. This isn't just some delinquent who might commit more crimes if they are necessary for themselves, this is an extremely disturbed individual who has a set of extremely maladaptive psychological disorders that have all been proven extremely impossible or completely impossible to cure.
Even though she may not evolve to killing people, she has already shown a history of carrying out sadistic acts towards animals, and given the opportunity, she will continue to carry out these acts.


not sufficient for you then?

"Bourque has already served six months in custody, so will be out in two - though her release will be highly supervised.

The judge in her case imposed an extensive probation order with 46 conditions, including that she stay away from animals, keep off the internet and not keep weapons. She also can't have anything considered a restraining device.

The judge said that, given the extreme concern, Bourque could be supervised the rest of her life. "


and


"She has already been in custody for six months, but MacLean gave her an additional two months in custody, in part so probation officials can prepare for her highly supervised release.

MacLean said Bourque's mother does not want her daughter living in the family home. Once released from jail, a Vancouver police high risk offender team will escort her to her new residence.

She's not allowed to have anyone in her home from 6 pm to 6 am and anyone who does visit must be made fully aware of the charges she pleaded guilty to and their circumstances.

She can't associate with anyone under the age of 18 or possess computer software to access the internet. MacLean also forbade her from accessing social networking sites or possessing duct tape, hypodermic needles or knives.


The probation order will be reviewed in three months after her release from custody. MacLean also banned Bourque from owning any animals for life."


seems like a good start by the authorities if you ask me.

Course they could always just put her in a straight jacket and lock her in a dark closet.
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#48 Down by the River

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:39 PM

I'm surprised Crown has not opted to apply for an 810 order:

s. 810.2 allows for incredibly strict conditions to be imposed on violent offenders. I guess the Crown would be worried that, in the absence of actual physical violence, Bourque would not qualify.

The individuals under an 810 recognizance order pose many challenges to the courts, community correction officials, and the police involved in the application of the order (Lussier et al., 2008)

Conditions of an 810 order:

Standard conditions for 810 orders are set out in the Criminal Code. Other conditions often found on 810 orders include:
  • Report to police on a scheduled basis (either in person or by telephone)
  • Notify police 24 hours in advance of any changes in employment status
  • Provide police with 24 hours advance notice of any changes in residential address
  • Notify the police 24 hours in advance of any travel outside a designated geographical area - such information to include intended destination and intended route of travel
  • That the offender carry on his/her person, at all times when away from their residence, a copy of their conditions

The court will allow the application where it is satisfied that there is a reasonable fear that the defendant will cause injury or damage to property. The defendant must agree to the order binding him or her to the stipulated conditions, or be subject to immediate imprisonment.
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OMG we could've had McKeown!

I think Virtanen was a terrible pick given that he's out for 6 months which will hinder his development. You don't pick someone at #6 under that circumstance, along with the fact that he was given a 3/5 IQ (aka he's dumb). 

God dammit Benning. WHY VIRTANEN? Terrible move.

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#49 Jägermeister

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:39 PM

not sufficient for you then?

"Bourque has already served six months in custody, so will be out in two - though her release will be highly supervised.

The judge in her case imposed an extensive probation order with 46 conditions, including that she stay away from animals, keep off the internet and not keep weapons. She also can't have anything considered a restraining device.

The judge said that, given the extreme concern, Bourque could be supervised the rest of her life. "


and


"She has already been in custody for six months, but MacLean gave her an additional two months in custody, in part so probation officials can prepare for her highly supervised release.

MacLean said Bourque's mother does not want her daughter living in the family home. Once released from jail, a Vancouver police high risk offender team will escort her to her new residence.

She's not allowed to have anyone in her home from 6 pm to 6 am and anyone who does visit must be made fully aware of the charges she pleaded guilty to and their circumstances.

She can't associate with anyone under the age of 18 or possess computer software to access the internet. MacLean also forbade her from accessing social networking sites or possessing duct tape, hypodermic needles or knives.


The probation order will be reviewed in three months after her release from custody. MacLean also banned Bourque from owning any animals for life."


seems like a good start by the authorities if you ask me.

Course they could always just put her in a straight jacket and lock her in a dark closet.


Yeah cause nobody has ever broken the rules of their probation or slipped away from police supervison :rolleyes:
Happens far more often than it should.
The risk of her being in public is too great, if she were to slip away from any supervision she is a serious threat to herself or others. This is not a risk we should be willing to take. She should be in a secure facility were she will be deprived from any chance to cause any harm. And no, this doesn't mean locking her in a dark closet with a straight jacket...
Would we release Robert Pickton out under the same supervision that Bourque is under? No.
But in reality Bourque does pose neraly the same threat as Pickton did. She is just one step away.
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#50 hudson bay rules

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:41 PM

But in reality Bourque does pose neraly the same threat as Pickton did. She is just one step away.


hahahahaha

/thread

(never wrote that before)
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#51 taxi

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:51 PM

Love all the judgement in this thread. None of you have ever talked to her or met her. She will be evaluated by counsellors and psychiatrists. They are the experts who decide who is and is not a risk to others. I think you should all be very grateful we live in a society where the state can't lock you up and throw away the key everytime a mob of people suspects you might commit a crime. Yes the occassional nut-bar slips through, but the consequences of giving the state too much power would be much worse.
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#52 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:10 PM

Love all the judgement in this thread. None of you have ever talked to her or met her. She will be evaluated by counsellors and psychiatrists. They are the experts who decide who is and is not a risk to others. I think you should all be very grateful we live in a society where the state can't lock you up and throw away the key everytime a mob of people suspects you might commit a crime. Yes the occassional nut-bar slips through, but the consequences of giving the state too much power would be much worse.


Tell that to the family of the child or family member who is unfortunate to be the victim of someone like her and see if they agree with you. There is an opportunity to protect innocent members of society here and to ignore it should make those making the decisions culpable when (and if) something happens. Better yet, how 'bout Kayla Bourque come and live next door to you and your children, your pets..........maybe she could even live in your basement suite........

Why should an innocent party end up being tortured and/or murdered in order to ensure people like Kayla Bourque who has clearly illustrated that she is a danger to society be allowed even the tiniest of opportunities to commit the sado-sexual torture she fantasizes about or kill homeless people. She is flawed, dangerously and psychologically so and the safety of society should trump hers any day of the week. "Might" commit a crime? The odds are extremely high that she is going to....read her psych reports.

Are we going to pay someone to watch her 24/7 for the rest of her life while handcuffed to her? That is the only way they can ensure she doesn't violate the terms of her parole and it's conditions........what happens after her parole is up....who watches her then? The judge's words were that she 'could' be on life long supervision.....there is NO guarantee that she will be........and then what? It has already been said that the possibility of rehabbing someone like her is low...yet the powers that be want to turn her loose on an unsuspecting society.......

Those advocating no capital punishment always use the argument that there shouldn't be capital punishment in case one innocent person is put to death. Yet some of you want to put a known, diagnosed, walking time bomb back on the street to potentially take an innocent life.......... where are those innocent person's rights in all this?

Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 04 December 2012 - 04:16 PM.

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#53 hudson bay rules

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:16 PM

Tell that to the family of the child or family member who is unfortunate to be the victim of someone like her and see if they agree with you. There is an opportunity to protect innocent members of society here and to ignore it should make those making the decisions culpable when (and if) something happens. Better yet, how 'bout Kayla Bourque come and live next door to you and your children, your pets..........maybe she could even live in your basement suite........

Why should an innocent party end up being tortured and/or murdered in order to ensure people like Kayla Bourque who has clearly illustrated that she is a danger to society be allowed even the tiniest of opportunities to commit the sado-sexual torture she fantasizes about or kill homeless people. She is flawed, dangerously and psychologically so and the safety of society should trump hers any day of the week. "Might" commit a crime? The odds are extremely high that she is going to....read her psych reports.

Are we going to pay someone to watch her 24/7 for the rest of her life while handcuffed to her? That is the only way they can ensure she doesn't violate the terms of her parole and it's conditions........what happens after her parole is up....who watches her then? The judge's words were that she 'could' be on life long supervision.....there is NO guarantee that she will be........and then what? It has already been said that the possibility of rehabbing someone like her are low...yet the powers that be want to turn her loose on an unsuspecting society.......

Those advocating no capital punishment always use the argument that there shouldn't be capital punishment in case one innocent person is put to death. Yet some of you want to put a known, diagnosed, walking time bomb back on the street to potentially take an innocent life.......... where are those innocent person's rights in all this?


hyperbole

nothing else.
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#54 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:19 PM

hyperbole

nothing else.


No, this is the grass roots, the bottom line, of how a decision like letting the Kayla Bourques of the world loose on an unsuspecting society impacts every day people. Joe Blow down the street, your children......your grandparents....... How easy it is to sit in an office behind a desk and make these sort of decisions but I bet you neither the judge nor the psychiatrists involved want Kayla Bourque living in their basement suite or next door or on their block. Hell, even her own family is so afraid of her that they won't allow her to live in their house with them. You don't think they're qualified to determine/decide how dangerous she is after living with her? Oh please........

Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 04 December 2012 - 04:30 PM.

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#55 hudson bay rules

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:31 PM

No, this is the grass roots of how a decision like letting the Kayla Bourques of the world loose on an unsuspecting society impacts every day people. Joe Blow down the street, your children......your grandparents....... How easy it is to sit in an office behind a desk and make these sort of decisions but I bet you neither the judge nor the psychiatrists involved want Kayla Bourque living in their basement suite or next door or on their block. Hell, even her own family is so afraid of her that they won't allow her to live in their house with them. You don't think they're qualified to determine/decide how dangerous she is after living with her? Oh please........


you do realize that she will be in a monitored group home for psychiatric patients and not in your neighbours basement don't you? I guess not.
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#56 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:38 PM

you do realize that she will be in a monitored group home for psychiatric patients and not in your neighbours basement don't you? I guess not.


There is no guarantee that will always be so.
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#57 taxi

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:40 PM

There is no guarantee that will always be so.

Tell that to the family of the child or family member who is unfortunate to be the victim of someone like her and see if they agree with you. There is an opportunity to protect innocent members of society here and to ignore it should make those making the decisions culpable when (and if) something happens. Better yet, how 'bout Kayla Bourque come and live next door to you and your children, your pets..........maybe she could even live in your basement suite........

Why should an innocent party end up being tortured and/or murdered in order to ensure people like Kayla Bourque who has clearly illustrated that she is a danger to society be allowed even the tiniest of opportunities to commit the sado-sexual torture she fantasizes about or kill homeless people. She is flawed, dangerously and psychologically so and the safety of society should trump hers any day of the week. "Might" commit a crime? The odds are extremely high that she is going to....read her psych reports.

Are we going to pay someone to watch her 24/7 for the rest of her life while handcuffed to her? That is the only way they can ensure she doesn't violate the terms of her parole and it's conditions........what happens after her parole is up....who watches her then? The judge's words were that she 'could' be on life long supervision.....there is NO guarantee that she will be........and then what? It has already been said that the possibility of rehabbing someone like her is low...yet the powers that be want to turn her loose on an unsuspecting society.......

Those advocating no capital punishment always use the argument that there shouldn't be capital punishment in case one innocent person is put to death. Yet some of you want to put a known, diagnosed, walking time bomb back on the street to potentially take an innocent life.......... where are those innocent person's rights in all this?


How would you like to be a family member of one of the people that gets wrongfully taken out of society and put into prison/loonie bin just because they "might" do something. There are downsides to both arguments. We should always be afraid to swing too far towards one direction.
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#58 hudson bay rules

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:41 PM

There is no guarantee that will always be so.


that's a pretty silly argument.
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#59 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:50 PM

that's a pretty silly argument.


And what is so silly about it? Can you guarantee she will always be in a monitored facility? Nope, you can't. Even the judge in her case and the psychiatrists writing the reports on her couldn't guarantee it.

Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 04 December 2012 - 04:51 PM.

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#60 hudson bay rules

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:53 PM

And what is so silly about it? Can you guarantee she will always be in a monitored facility? Nope, you can't. Even the judge in her case or the psychiatrists writing the reports on her couldn't guarantee it.


so she should be in a facility more secure than what the authorities deem necessary today because her situation may change down the road?

Are you listening to yourself?
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