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The War on Christmas is Over... Christmas Won but only In Canada, Pity


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#31 Heretic

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:05 PM

Perhaps you should make a request of Santa to bring you one of these for Xmas?

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Ditto - for what a hypocritical statement you made.
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#32 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:07 PM

Can you prove that in a court of law?

Oh, BTW, Christians didn't "steal" Christmas.
Can you prove that in a court of law?
If not, then stop with the "defamation of character".

BTW2, yes, I know Jesus wasn't born on the 25th, but it's possible that was His day of conception, and yes, I know that some strong (is that the right word) Christians don't celebrate Christmas as they say it's just a Pagan holiday wrapped with a Christian bow. I also know that Christ even said not to celebrate his birth, but to celebrate his death. So the next question is - why do you celebrate Christmas then? Pretty much for the same reason that others do. Difference is, I don't say "pity" or what have you in regards to how anyone else celebrates this time of the season nor any other holiday.

No need to waste scarce court resources, the intellectual deficit and illogic of your pastor is readily apparent as is the fact that the Christian religion co-opted the pagan winter festival and turned it into Christmas.

As we who are learned in the law (and/or fluent in Latin) say:

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#33 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:08 PM

Ditto - for what a hypocritical statement you made.

You should also ask Santa for a dictionary so you can look up the meaning of words before you use them.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

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Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#34 theminister

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:11 PM

The War on Christmas is over but the War on Drugs continues? That's so ass-backwards.

I generally need drugs to get through Christmas not the other way around.
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#35 Heretic

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:15 PM

You should also ask Santa for a dictionary so you can look up the meaning of words before you use them.


What happened to thou shalt not use personal attacks?

Again, I spoke the truth.

You said "What bothers me about the Christian Church is the way it seek to impose its beliefs on others who want nothing to do with them." and then show a sign that was in front of a church, not on your property.

That's hypocritical - Why? You just imposed your beliefs on others who want nothing to do with them.

Oh, please stop with defamation of character on my pastor as you have never even met him.
That sounds more like something that Fox News would do.
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McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
Kirk: Maybe he's not out there, Bones. Maybe he's right here. [points to his heart]

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#36 Jai604

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:21 PM

God Thread 3.0
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#37 Shift-4

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:26 PM

God Thread 3.0


You missed about 3,584 of them I think
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#38 Heretic

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:26 PM

God Thread 3.0


Has to be at least 27 by now....

Edit: too slow...3,584 as Shift-4 said.

Edited by Heretic, 10 December 2012 - 02:27 PM.

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McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
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#39 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:30 PM

What happened to thou shalt not use personal attacks?

Again, I spoke the truth.

You said "What bothers me about the Christian Church is the way it seek to impose its beliefs on others who want nothing to do with them." and then show a sign that was in front of a church, not on your property.

That's hypocritical - Why? You just imposed your beliefs on others who want nothing to do with them.

Oh, please stop with defamation of character on my pastor as you have never even met him.
That sounds more like something that Fox News would do.

You seem bereft of a sense of humour.

If your pastor does not like to have his illogic pointed out then he should stop making idiotic statements.
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#40 Mr. Ambien

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:32 PM

This thread is in dire need of a mercy killing.
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#41 Heretic

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:35 PM

You seem bereft of a sense of humour.

If your pastor does not like to have his illogic pointed out then he should stop making idiotic statements.


Wow...just wow. Enjoy the "holidays"...sounds like you can use it...
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McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
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#42 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:36 PM

This thread is in dire need of a mercy killing.

That issue is currently before the Supreme Court of Canada... again.


Who gets to decide when medical treatments are no longer worth pursuing and should be ended? The doctors? The patients? In the case of those who can't speak for themselves, their surrogate decision-makers?


Is discontinuing care when doctors deem all hope of recovery is gone the equivalent of allowing a patient to die — or hastening a death?


In the coming weeks, the Supreme Court of Canada's justices will be mulling over these questions and what the law says about them as they craft a judgment in a case entitled "Brian Cuthbertson, et al. versus Hassan Rasouli by his Litigation Guardian and Substitute Decision Maker, Parichehr Salasel."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/12/10/can-supreme-court-end-of-life-case.html
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#43 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:42 PM

Wow...just wow. Enjoy the "holidays"...sounds like you can use it...

I always enjoy Xmas - excellent food, superb single malt scotch, etc.

About the only thing I do not enjoy is the Christian religion's myth making around a stolen a pagan holiday.

What about that whole "Thou shalt not steal" directive from the invisible guy in the sky?

Or how about the one about not coveting they neighbour's wife's ass?
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

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Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#44 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:44 PM

Just acknowledge the real reason for this former pagan celebration that has been stolen by the Christian religion....

Posted Image


It’s funny how some fables became historic
When the authors clearly wrote them to be metaphoric
But people will believe anything if it’s written
Especially in stone or ancient scroll
December 25th has been blacklisted
Since Dawkins found the proof Jesus never existed
It was the last thing anyone ever expected
Xmas has been X’d

No colored lights, no shopping sprees
No more presents under dead trees
St. Nick is dead but we don’t grieve
We celebrate the last Christmas Eve

Jesuits are slowly turning Dianetic
Protestants increasingly become agnostic
Pentecostal churches are hanging pentagrams
Priests and Nuns are molesting each other
Methodists and Baptists are claiming Buddhist
Evangelicals surprisingly are Nudist
But mostly everyone is trying to become Jew
Cuz Easter’s canceled too
No more egg hunts, no Sunday mass
Fridays are fair, Wednesdays don’t ash
They canceled lent and slowed down fast
Enjoy Christmas cuz it’s your last

No shopping sprees (don’t worry son)
No more presents (We don’t need christ) under dead trees (We got eight nights)
St. Nick is dead (we got mitzvah) but we don’t grieve (The’re all canceled)
We celebrate (our hanukah) the last Christmas eve

Mike Burkett
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#45 nuckin_futz

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:45 PM

Can you prove that in a court of law?

Oh, BTW, Christians didn't "steal" Christmas.
Can you prove that in a court of law?
If not, then stop with the "defamation of character".


Can't believe I am posting in this thread but while the subject is the law......... Can you prove in a court of law that God exists?

That said, as a non Christian living in a Christian country. I'd like to wish everyone a Merry Christmas.
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#46 Shift-4

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:46 PM

That said, as a non Christian living in a Christian country. I'd like to wish everyone a Merry Christmas.


Rebel
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#47 Heretic

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:47 PM

I always enjoy Xmas - excellent food, superb single malt scotch, etc.

About the only thing I do not enjoy is the Christian religion's myth making around a stolen a pagan holiday.

What about that whole "Thou shalt not steal" directive from the invisible guy in the sky?

Or how about the one about not coveting they neighbour's wife's ass?


Again, Christians didn't "steal" it.

About the only thing I don't enjoy is people pushing their beliefs and lies about it on me and others.
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McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
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#48 nuckin_futz

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:47 PM

Rebel


Can't we all just get along Shifty?
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#49 Wetcoaster

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:59 PM

Again, Christians didn't "steal" it.

Sure they did. And then deceived people into thinking that Jesus was born on December 25. Theft AND fraud.


Pre-Christian Roman Traditions:

Much of what people associate with Christmas, a holiday that is supposed to be about the birth of Jesus, actually pre-dates Christianity. Traditional Christianity celebrates the death of holy people, not their birth. In 274 CE, though, pagan emperor Aurelian proclaimed Decemer 25th Natalis Solis Invicti, the festival of the birth of the invincible sun. Saturnalia already occurred around this time along with many other celebrations. Christians took over this and other Roman festivals.

Pre-Christian German Traditions:

Germans of the north also held mid-winter festivals. Evergreen trees and holly were important because they held their green colors despite the harshest winters. Another Nordic tradition is the Yule Log — the origin of the word yule is disputed, but it may be related to the god Yolnir, Jol in Old Norse. In his name people celebrated a 12-day festival of eating, drinking, and merriment. One legend about Yolnir has him hanging himself on a tree and piercing himself with a spear.

About the only thing I don't enjoy is people pushing their beliefs and lies about it on me and others.


As the atheist said if you do not believe as I do, when you die absolutely nothing will happen to you.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

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Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#50 Heretic

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 03:04 PM

Can't believe I am posting in this thread but while the subject is the law......... Can you prove in a court of law that God exists?

That said, as a non Christian living in a Christian country. I'd like to wish everyone a Merry Christmas.


Nope. I can't prove in a court of law that God exists.

I can't prove in a court of law that He doesn't neither.
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McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
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#51 Gumballthechewy

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 03:04 PM

Oh, BTW, Christians didn't "steal" Christmas.
Can you prove that in a court of law?


Christmas, like most if not all Christian holidays, are adapted from pagan holidays/celebrations.
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#52 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 03:05 PM

Again, Christians didn't "steal" it.

About the only thing I don't enjoy is people pushing their beliefs and lies about it on me and others.


Why December 25?
For the church's first three centuries, Christmas wasn't in December—or on the calendar at all.
Elesha Coffman | posted 8/08/2008 12:33PM


Posted Image 1 of 1 Posted Image







For the church's first three centuries, Christmas wasn't in December—or on the calendar at all.
Elesha Coffman
It's very tough for us North Americans to imagine Mary and Joseph trudging to Bethlehem in anything but, as Christina Rosetti memorably described it, "the bleak mid-winter," surrounded by "snow on snow on snow." To us, Christmas and December are inseparable. But for the first three centuries of Christianity, Christmas wasn't in December—or on the calendar anywhere.
If observed at all, the celebration of Christ's birth was usually lumped in with Epiphany (January 6), one of the church's earliest established feasts. Some church leaders even opposed the idea of a birth celebration. Origen (c.185-c.254) preached that it would be wrong to honor Christ in the same way Pharaoh and Herod were honored. Birthdays were for pagan gods.
Not all of Origen's contemporaries agreed that Christ's birthday shouldn't be celebrated, and some began to speculate on the date (actual records were apparently long lost). Clement of Alexandria (c.150-c.215) favored May 20 but noted that others had argued for April 18, April 19, and May 28. Hippolytus (c.170-c.236) championed January 2. November 17, November 20, and March 25 all had backers as well. A Latin treatise written around 243 pegged March 21, because that was believed to be the date on which God created the sun. Polycarp (c.69-c.155) had followed the same line of reasoning to conclude that Christ's birth and baptism most likely occurred on Wednesday, because the sun was created on the fourth day.
The eventual choice of December 25, made perhaps as early as 273, reflects a convergence of Origen's concern about pagan gods and the church's identification of God's son with the celestial sun. December 25 already hosted two other related festivals: natalis solis invicti (the Roman "birth of the unconquered sun"), and the birthday of Mithras, the Iranian "Sun of Righteousness" whose worship was popular with Roman soldiers. The winter solstice, another celebration of the sun, fell just a few days earlier. Seeing that pagans were already exalting deities with some parallels to the true deity, church leaders decided to commandeer the date and introduce a new festival.
Western Christians first celebrated Christmas on December 25 in 336, after Emperor Constantine had declared Christianity the empire's favored religion. Eastern churches, however, held on to January 6 as the date for Christ's birth and his baptism. Most easterners eventually adopted December 25, celebrating Christ's birth on the earlier date and his baptism on the latter, but the Armenian church celebrates his birth on January 6. Incidentally, the Western church does celebrate Epiphany on January 6, but as the arrival date of the Magi rather than as the date of Christ's baptism.
Another wrinkle was added in the sixteenth century when Pope Gregory devised a new calendar, which was unevenly adopted. The Eastern Orthodox and some Protestants retained the Julian calendar, which meant they celebrated Christmas 13 days later than their Gregorian counterparts. Most—but not all—of the Christian world now agrees on the Gregorian calendar and the December 25 date.
The pagan origins of the Christmas date, as well as pagan origins for many Christmas customs (gift-giving and merrymaking from Roman Saturnalia; greenery, lights, and charity from the Roman New Year; Yule logs and various foods from Teutonic feasts), have always fueled arguments against the holiday. "It's just paganism wrapped with a Christian bow," naysayers argue. But while kowtowing to worldliness must always be a concern for Christians, the church has generally viewed efforts to reshape culture—including holidays—positively. As a theologian asserted in 320, "We hold this day holy, not like the pagans because of the birth of the sun, but because of him who made it."
Elesha can be reached at cheditor@ChristianityToday.com.

Christians might not have stolen it , but it took them a few hundred years to get their fable in line with existing traditions

Edited by The Ratiocinator, 10 December 2012 - 03:06 PM.

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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#53 Heretic

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 03:07 PM

Sure they did. And then deceived people into thinking that Jesus was born on December 25. Theft AND fraud.


Pre-Christian Roman Traditions:

Much of what people associate with Christmas, a holiday that is supposed to be about the birth of Jesus, actually pre-dates Christianity. Traditional Christianity celebrates the death of holy people, not their birth. In 274 CE, though, pagan emperor Aurelian proclaimed Decemer 25th Natalis Solis Invicti, the festival of the birth of the invincible sun. Saturnalia already occurred around this time along with many other celebrations. Christians took over this and other Roman festivals.

Pre-Christian German Traditions:

Germans of the north also held mid-winter festivals. Evergreen trees and holly were important because they held their green colors despite the harshest winters. Another Nordic tradition is the Yule Log — the origin of the word yule is disputed, but it may be related to the god Yolnir, Jol in Old Norse. In his name people celebrated a 12-day festival of eating, drinking, and merriment. One legend about Yolnir has him hanging himself on a tree and piercing himself with a spear.



As the atheist said if you do not believe as I do, when you die absolutely nothing will happen to you.


Sorry, that's can't be proven in a court of law.

FYI, it was the Romans that "stole" it as you word it. - Not the Christians.

"Emperor Domitian (AD 51-96) may have changed Saturnalia’s date to December 25th in an attempt to assert his authority. He curbed Saturnalia’s subversive tendencies by marking it with public events under his control. The poet Statius (AD 45- 95), in his poem Silvae, describes the lavish banquet and entertainments Domitian presided over, including games which opened with sweets, fruit and nuts showered on the crowd and featuring flights of flamingos released over Rome. Shows with fighting dwarves and female gladiators were illuminated, for the first time, into the night.
The conversion of Emperor Constantine to Christianity in AD 312 ended Roman persecution of Christians and began imperial patronage of the Christian churches. But Christianity did not become the Roman Empire’s official religion overnight. Dr David Gwynn, lecturer in ancient and late antique history at Royal Holloway, University of London, says that, alongside Christian and other pagan festivals, ‘the Saturnalia continued to be celebrated in the century afterward’.

The poet Ambrosius Theodosius Macrobius wrote another Saturnalia, describing a banquet of pagan literary celebrities in Rome during the festival. Classicists date the work to between AD 383 and 430, so it describes a Saturnalia alive and well under Christian emperors. The Christian calendar of Polemius Silvus, written around AD 449, mentions Saturnalia, recording that ‘it used to honour the god Saturn’. This suggests it had by then become just another popular carnival.

Christmas apparently started – like Saturnalia – in Rome, and spread to the eastern Mediterranean. The earliest known reference to it commemorating the birth of Christ on December 25th is in the Roman Philocalian calendar of AD 354. Provincial schisms soon resulted in different Christian calendars. The Orthodox Church in the Eastern (Byzantine) half of the Roman Empire fixed the date of Christmas at January 6th, commemorating simultaneously Christ’s birth, baptism and first miracle.

Saturnalia has a rival contender as the forerunner of Christmas: the festival of dies natalis solis invicti, ‘birthday of the unconquered sun’. The Philocalian calendar also states that December 25th was a Roman civil holiday honouring the cult of sol invicta. With its origins in Syria and the monotheistic cult of Mithras, sol invicta certainly has similarities to the worship of Jesus. The cult was introduced into the empire in AD 274 by Emperor Aurelian (214-275), who effectively made it a state religion, putting its emblem on Roman coins.

Sol invicta succeeded because of its ability to assimilate aspects of Jupiter and other deities into its figure of the Sun King, reflecting the absolute power of ‘divine’emperors. But despite efforts by later pagan emperors to control Saturnalia and absorb the festival into the official cult, the sol invicta ended up looking very much like the old Saturnalia. Constantine, the first Christian emperor, was brought up in the sol invicta cult, in what was by then already a predominantly monotheist empire: ‘It is therefore possible,’ says Dr Gwynn, ‘that Christmas was intended to replace this festival rather than Saturnalia.’

Gwynn concludes: ‘The majority of modern scholars would be reluctant to accept any close connection between the Saturnalia and the emergence of the Christian Christmas.’

Devout Christians will be reassured to learn that the date of Christmas may derive from concepts in Judaism that link the time of the deaths of prophets being linked to their conception or birth. From this, early ecclesiastical number-crunchers extrapolated that the nine months of Mary’s pregnancy following the Annunciation on March 25th would produce a December 25th date for the birth of Christ."

http://www.historyto...nvent-christmas

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McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
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#54 etsen3

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 03:16 PM

Don't understand why people use terms like "Happy Holidays" anyways. They're trying to include all the holidays, but you still know which one they're really talking about. When you have a sign that's says "happy holidays" with a picture of Santa Claus, it's still not inclusive because it's obvious that you're celebrating Christmas.

Same thing with "holiday" trees. Christmas trees are only used to celebrate Christmas. There is no such thing as a Hanukkah tree or a Kwanzaa tree. It'a obvious to everyone that a "holiday" tree is still really a Christmas tree.

Wish everyone would quit with the stupid political correctness horsecrap. How can anyone be offended by a simple greeting? I wouldn't avoid a store just because it says "Happy Hanukkah" on it. Or if someone said it to me I would still be happy for the greeting.

Edited by etsen3, 10 December 2012 - 03:18 PM.

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#55 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 03:31 PM

Except it's pretty difficult to have Easter as 'the most Christian holiday' without Jesus being born in the first place....

Birth? Meh.

Resurrection? M'kay... Wow.


We celebrate Christmas more because it's kid-friendly.
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#56 Shift-4

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 03:31 PM

Can't we all just get along Shifty?


Apparently just the men should

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There must be some cage match to the death planned for the women that I have yet to hear about. ::D
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#57 nucklehead

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 03:33 PM

To be frank, I barely even consider Christmas to be religious. To me, Merry Christmas is equivalent to Happy Holidays, as it's a time to be merry, enjoy family and exchange gifts. Considering the baby Jesus was likely born sometime in the summer, I don't think he minds.

If someone said to me "Happy Hannukah" or "Happy Kwanza", I wouldn't get bent out of shape. I would respond in kind and move on with my life without even a second thought.

Political correctness is overkill in most cases.

You seem to be speaking out of both sides of your mouth here. If it wasn't for the christian holiday called christmas, there would be no holiday season. Not sure if you endorse this view or prefer to be pc?
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#58 NightHawkSniper

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 03:33 PM

Merry Christmas everyone!
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#59 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 03:34 PM

Apparently just the men should

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There must be some cage match to the death planned for the women that I have yet to hear about. ::D


What do you expect from such a mysogynistic religion.
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#60 Scottish⑦Canuck

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 03:36 PM

Some people really are miserable.

I think they need one of those Christmas miracles. Like the dad in Elf. Has noone ever told you that Santa's sleigh runs on Christmas cheer and not sarcasm or political correctness or any of that other drivel?

Merry Christmas CDC.

EDIT: Oh, silly me. I forgot that Santa was a sensitive subject around here. Apologies.

Edited by Scottish⑦Canuck, 10 December 2012 - 03:49 PM.

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