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Is Kassians lack of scoring in the AHL a cause for concern?


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Poll: Is Kassians lack of scoring in the AHL a cause for concern? (109 member(s) have cast votes)

is kassian lack of production concerning you about is development so far?

  1. Yes, he should be dominating down there and he is not (68 votes [62.39%])

    Percentage of vote: 62.39%

  2. No, he is just off to a rough start and its no cause for concern (41 votes [37.61%])

    Percentage of vote: 37.61%

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#121 nuck nit

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 03:02 AM

Until then shut up already.


Please,do as requested,already.
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#122 nuck nit

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 03:14 AM

Let's jump up and down in support of a young man that has to be benched in the minors to motivate him.
Then he comes back and does zippo for three games in a row.I'm warm all over.

"How a player does in the NHL is all that matters.And the bottom line is Hodgson has had an extra year over Kassian to play in the NHL, so it's not even a fair comparison. If there was a season this year, Kassian may very well have been on the third line and putting up points just like Hodgson. We won't know until he gets that chance though." DeNiro

"Kassian may very well have been..." Conjecture.De Niro Fantasy.

Kassian has played in 44 NHL games and has registered 4 goals and 6 assists for 10 points.
Hodgson has played in 91 NHL games and has registered 20 goals and 23 assists for 43 points.

The bottom line is Hodgson was misdiagnosed by this parent club and missed a year of his development.
"May very well have been",and "If there was" doesn't provide anything but De Niro fantasy speak.
Getting benched in the AHL due to publicly expressed concerns of management from both the Canucks and Wolves is the reality.

Is there cause for concern? Apparently enough to bench him to motivate him or get his attention or have him learn that he needs to focus or apply himself more.

Whatever the case,it is concerning but let's hope he comes around as he shows rare intangibles and promise.

Edited by nuck nit, 21 December 2012 - 04:10 AM.

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#123 playboi19

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 04:18 AM

Let's jump up and down in support of a young man that has to be benched in the minors to motivate him.
Then he comes back and does zippo for three games in a row.I'm warm all over.

"How a player does in the NHL is all that matters.And the bottom line is Hodgson has had an extra year over Kassian to play in the NHL, so it's not even a fair comparison. If there was a season this year, Kassian may very well have been on the third line and putting up points just like Hodgson. We won't know until he gets that chance though." DeNiro

"Kassian may very well have been..." Conjecture.De Niro Fantasy.

Kassian has played in 44 NHL games and has registered 4 goals and 6 assists for 10 points.
Hodgson has played in 91 NHL games and has registered 20 goals and 23 assists for 43 points.

The bottom line is Hodgson was misdiagnosed by this parent club and missed a year of his development.
"May very well have been",and "If there was" doesn't provide anything but De Niro fantasy speak.
Getting benched in the AHL due to publicly expressed concerns of management from both the Canucks and Wolves is the reality.

Is there cause for concern? Apparently enough to bench him to motivate him or get his attention or have him learn that he needs to focus or apply himself more.

Whatever the case,it is concerning but let's hope he comes around as he shows rare intangibles and promise.

Did you miss the end of the year Gillis presser? Cody Hodgson was intentionally shielded from defensive situations. He was purposely given only offensive zone starts to inflate his stats and enhance his trade value.

Also check Kassians stats with Rochester last year. Pretty similar to Cody Hodgsons this year, actually better.
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#124 King of the ES

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 04:53 AM

Did you miss the end of the year Gillis presser? Cody Hodgson was intentionally shielded from defensive situations. He was purposely given only offensive zone starts to inflate his stats and enhance his trade value.


Really sad that you actually buy that crap. Hockey is not basketball. Not that easy to manipulate stats. Cody Hodgson scored 16 goals for the Canucks in 63 games (while getting very little minutes), not Mike Gillis.
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#125 nuck nit

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 04:55 AM

Did you miss the end of the year Gillis presser? Cody Hodgson was intentionally shielded from defensive situations. He was purposely given only offensive zone starts to inflate his stats and enhance his trade value.

Also check Kassians stats with Rochester last year. Pretty similar to Cody Hodgsons this year, actually better.


Is that the one where Gilis protected his fat,overpaid rear end by throwing the beloved rookie under the team bus? Class act.

Plaboi,the De Niro mandate went out to CDC that it is all about the NHL.Clearly,in the NHL we are talking boy vs, man as in Zach vs. Cody stats wise.

All kidding aside,I wish Zach the best and hope he can overcome this adjustment period and put it together to finish the season on a high and go on to have a great career.

Edited by nuck nit, 21 December 2012 - 05:21 AM.

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#126 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 09:31 AM

Awww the two amigos are back together again.
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#127 playboi19

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 02:36 PM

Really sad that you actually buy that crap. Hockey is not basketball. Not that easy to manipulate stats. Cody Hodgson scored 16 goals for the Canucks in 63 games (while getting very little minutes), not Mike Gillis.

It's easier to manipulate stats in the NHL than the NBA. Of course I wouldn't expect an Oiler fan to know anything like that.
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#128 playboi19

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 02:41 PM

Is that the one where Gilis protected his fat,overpaid rear end by throwing the beloved rookie under the team bus? Class act.

Plaboi,the De Niro mandate went out to CDC that it is all about the NHL.Clearly,in the NHL we are talking boy vs, man as in Zach vs. Cody stats wise.

All kidding aside,I wish Zach the best and hope he can overcome this adjustment period and put it together to finish the season on a high and go on to have a great career.

Kassian had better stats than Hodgson in the AHL as a 20 year old. The funny thing is Kassian's main role isn't to be a primary point producer, while Hodgson is. So the fact that Kassian did better than Hodgson just keeps growing his case as the better overall player, since scoring isn't even his bread and butter.
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#129 nuck nit

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 03:30 PM

Kassian's talent is just not scoring goals,I agree, and that can be seen right now in the AHL.

Hodgson is putting up PPG stats and Kassian is slightly over half a point a game and has been benched.

Management would not bench Kassian if he was performing the intangibles needed while he is not scoring.

You may be sold,management is not.

Maybe you could comment upon the 2009 -2010 season,where Cody missed the entire summer's training plus 50 games due to injury and misdiagnosis?

Kassian never suffered a year's setback at the same critical stage and age and yet you and others here dismiss it as though it never happened or means little.

Let's see who does what for the remainder of the AHL season.Hodgson has just returned from injury and Kass is nice and healthy.

Edited by nuck nit, 21 December 2012 - 03:39 PM.

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#130 SamJamIam

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 06:58 PM

Kassian's talent is just not scoring goals,I agree, and that can be seen right now in the AHL.

Hodgson is putting up PPG stats and Kassian is slightly over half a point a game and has been benched.

Management would not bench Kassian if he was performing the intangibles needed while he is not scoring.

You may be sold,management is not.


We don't own our affiliate, an affiliate which has a reputation for putting development of young NHLers way down the list of priorities. Arniel is more interesting in developing Joslin, Sterling and Ebbett, not K-Conn, Kass, Schroeder et al. The AHL is where you get the minutes you need to learn where the holes in your game are and plug them. Kass hasn't done that because he keeps getting benched. Pretty obvious Arniel is a cancer.

Wolves management is not Canucks management, which is why the Canucks keep sending AV and LG to Chicago. They don't want their prospects screwed up by the Wolves.



Maybe you could comment upon the 2009 -2010 season,where Cody missed the entire summer's training plus 50 games due to injury and misdiagnosis?

Kassian never suffered a year's setback at the same critical stage and age and yet you and others here dismiss it as though it never happened or means little.

Let's see who does what for the remainder of the AHL season.Hodgson has just returned from injury and Kass is nice and healthy.


Cody's advanced stats are telling. He played against weaker opposing lines, got plenty of PP time and basically didn't have to work on his defensive game at all. This is why Manny was so leaned on for d zone faceoffs and despite winning around 60% of them (which makes him one of the best in the league for faceoffs) he had a brutal +/-. Our 3rd line didn't check and play a physical game because Cody was too small and too slow for that, so those duties fell entirely to the 4th line. But please, google Corsi, % zone starts and other advanced stats and then we'll continue the "You don't know the context for Hodgson's basic stats" discussion.

Kassian meanwhile came from Rochester who are perfectly content to have players who can put up points, even if they create GA as well. They're very happy to have Hodgson who can perform that role just fine. Kass meanwhile has much higher expectations of what he needs to do in his own end now. Not only do power forwards take more time to develop (although his protection of the puck is already pretty fantastic and will only get better) but he's also developing the ignored half of his game. This is why Kass is on the PK and Hodgson never was.

Developing a player who controls the game at both ends of the ice takes a lot more time than someone who can receive a pass and pop it in. But again, this is an understanding rooted in advanced stats that you've yet to exhibit an understanding of.
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#131 Noheart

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 08:18 PM

^^^^
This

And if I might add it seems as though Arniel, and the wolves organiztion are a little more interested in developing Kassian's defensive game at this point in his career which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I for one was upset with his benching and lack of scoring, and I blamed it on Arniel, but maybe it really was/is for his own good. Besides for a young player, that is what being in the AHL is for, to round out your game is it not? I would much rather have Kassian put up less points now to work on his defensive prowess so he is much better prepared for the NHL. Obviously we can see that his offensive awareness is pretty good, he can hit, and probably beat the pulp out of most players his age. So I say why waste so much time and energy on the things that you're already good at, and neglect ther other aspects of your game? If Kass is always fighting and destroying other players chances are he is going to spend a lot more time in the box, and thats no way to get any better on the ice in a real game situattion. One element of his game that needs to be addressed right now is his defensive play. IMO, for the future, I would rather have a 25-35g, 45-55a guy that can hit, fight and be responsible DEFENSIVELY, than someone with the same numbers more, or less, that can not play defensive at all.

Anyway just my two cents on Kassians current status in the AHL..


We need a full upside Kassian far more then a full upside Coho.

If we kept a full upside Coho, we would still get rag dolled against Boston or LA.

I think the gamble to have a skilled power forward to Kassian potential is a no brainer.

Kas is in School let him learn.
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#132 James van Riemsdyk

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 08:34 PM

I think Kassian needs time, no need to get angry just because he doesn't score now and then, look how long for the Sedin twins to become great. Hopefully he doesn't take as long but even if it does it happens one day and when that day comes everyone will have Kassian Canuck's jersey's cheering and chanting his name every time he touches the puck and even more when he's lighting it up or smashing bodies.
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#133 Bossy

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:34 PM

Bust.
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#134 DeNiro

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:04 PM

Kassian made two no look back handed passes last game that would be highlight goals in the NHL.

He's doing just fine. He just needs some better linemates.
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#135 oldnews

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:13 PM

We need a full upside Kassian far more then a full upside Coho.

If we kept a full upside Coho, we would still get rag dolled against Boston or LA.

I think the gamble to have a skilled power forward to Kassian potential is a no brainer.

Kas is in School let him learn.


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#136 oldnews

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:25 PM

Cody's advanced stats are telling. He played against weaker opposing lines, got plenty of PP time and basically didn't have to work on his defensive game at all. This is why Manny was so leaned on for d zone faceoffs and despite winning around 60% of them (which makes him one of the best in the league for faceoffs) he had a brutal +/-. Our 3rd line didn't check and play a physical game because Cody was too small and too slow for that, so those duties fell entirely to the 4th line. But please, google Corsi, % zone starts and other advanced stats and then we'll continue the "You don't know the context for Hodgson's basic stats" discussion.

Kassian meanwhile came from Rochester who are perfectly content to have players who can put up points, even if they create GA as well. They're very happy to have Hodgson who can perform that role just fine. Kass meanwhile has much higher expectations of what he needs to do in his own end now. Not only do power forwards take more time to develop (although his protection of the puck is already pretty fantastic and will only get better) but he's also developing the ignored half of his game. This is why Kass is on the PK and Hodgson never was.

Developing a player who controls the game at both ends of the ice takes a lot more time than someone who can receive a pass and pop it in. But again, this is an understanding rooted in advanced stats that you've yet to exhibit an understanding of.


Hodgson was spoon fed in Vancouver and subsidized with outstanding two-way linemates, and yet he still had a -6.8 relative corsi.
Not surprisingly, when he got the minutes in Buffalo that he simply hadn't earned in Vancouver, he go exposed.
Not yet an NHL quality player in his own end of the ice.
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#137 King of the ES

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:30 PM

Hodgson was spoon fed in Vancouver and subsidized with outstanding two-way linemates, and yet he still had a -6.8 relative corsi.
Not surprisingly, when he got the minutes in Buffalo that he simply hadn't earned in Vancouver, he go exposed.
Not yet an NHL quality player in his own end of the ice.


And Kassian's not yet an NHL quality player in either end of the ice, as evidenced by him being benched for the likes of Dale Wiese in the 2012 NHL playoffs.

So what's your point? This continued assassination of Hodgson by you is really embarrassing. The bitterness is very strong.
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#138 surtur

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:23 AM

And Kassian's not yet an NHL quality player in either end of the ice, as evidenced by him being benched for the likes of Dale Wiese in the 2012 NHL playoffs.

So what's your point? This continued assassination of Hodgson by you is really embarrassing. The bitterness is very strong.

Kassian will be fine and i bet he will do just fine in the NHL. he has a lot to learn but the kid knows what he is doing have you not watched the Wolves games? watch him protect the puck, watch him on the boards, watch him make crazy passes that if he had some skilled line mates to put them in the net he would probably have 2x the points he has right now maybe more.
not saying he doesn't make mistakes but that is expected he is still learning.
at least he is willing to learn and try to correct his downsides ... you on the other hand King are beyond repair.
CoHo is gone get over it.
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#139 oldnews

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:32 AM

And Kassian's not yet an NHL quality player in either end of the ice, as evidenced by him being benched for the likes of Dale Wiese in the 2012 NHL playoffs.

So what's your point? This continued assassination of Hodgson by you is really embarrassing. The bitterness is very strong.


My point was pretty clearly that I was agreeing with nateb123's point. Simple, really.

If you'd like me to clarify in the context of your pipe dreams, you are absolutely dreaming if you think the rookie was going to deliver a Cup last season. "Assassination" "bitterness" blah blah - you sound like a defensive, over-reacting relative who can't bear to hear a legitimate look at the limits of his young game. You whine and whine and whine about the Canucks roster, and yet you ironically pine and pine for players like Wellwood, Hodgson, Grabner, Frolik, and Semin as if they'd deliver a Cup. There's a pattern in the type of players you think are difference makers... It's "embarrassing".
I'd hate to see the mangled lineup the Canucks would have if you had your way.
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#140 SamJamIam

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 02:11 AM

And Kassian's not yet an NHL quality player in either end of the ice, as evidenced by him being benched for the likes of Dale Wiese in the 2012 NHL playoffs.

So what's your point? This continued assassination of Hodgson by you is really embarrassing. The bitterness is very strong.


Kid, you need to look up relative corsi right quick. You're talking Newtonian physics in a room of Quantum physicists.
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#141 nuck nit

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 05:32 AM

Developing a player who controls the game at both ends of the ice takes a lot more time than someone who can receive a pass and pop it in. But again, this is an understanding rooted in advanced stats that you've yet to exhibit an understanding of.


Right.Pretty hard to do that when he sits on the bench in Vancouver and his attitude sucks so bad they bench him in the minors.
And Hodgson actually put the puck in the net in some amazingly fine goals at crucial times.Can you Corsi that for me?
I played the game and can see talent.Cody has it.Kassian has it.Cody has vision.Kassian is a liability with his immaturity and attitude.
Developing players and dumping them because your organisation has screwed up so bad is what I do understand.
Throwing them under the bus after you screwed up so bad is ignorant and telling of larger issues.Can you also Corsi that and get back to me,Professor?
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#142 nuck nit

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 05:34 AM

Following the AHL action in the last few games.

How is that Cody kid doing ,being molly cuddled and all with his terrible Corsi stats?

Is Kassian's lack of scoring still an issue? Doesn't seem to be with that other kid and his terrible Corsi whatever's.

Edited by nuck nit, 30 December 2012 - 05:47 AM.

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#143 canucklehead44

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:41 PM

Can't compare a player on the Americans vs on the Wolves. Kassian put up close to a ppg with the Americans (and 15 goals in 30 games). Kassian has .64 ppg with the Wolves, when Hodgson was with the Moose he had .58 ppg. That Moose team and the current Wolves team are different in terms of coaching and many of the players but they both suffer from low goal scoring.

Most established AHL guys (Haydar, Ebbett, Gordon, Sterling) are producing at a far lower clip than their career averages. Haydar is a 1 time 40 goal scorer, two time 30 goal scorer and 6 time 20 goal scorer. This year he has 3 goals in 23 games, which is on pace for a little over 10 goals over an 80 game season.
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#144 Bodee

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 01:44 PM

Kassian made two no look back handed passes last game that would be highlight goals in the NHL.

He's doing just fine. He just needs some better linemates.


Beg to differ.

Kassian is having a nightmare in Chicago. I watched yet another poor performance today. The guy is losing touch with the basics. His puck handling, positioning, ability to use his physique, is just not there. Dare I say he is going backwards.

He is not helped in my opinion by the apparent total lack of system and some of his team mates trying to outdo him in mediocrity. It is an understatement to say I am very disappointed in his progress down there.

As for any comparisons with Hodgson, please!.............Hodgson always looked like he new what he was doing, especially with his ability to come away with the puck and distribute. Kassian and Tanev need to get away from Chicago before they are both ruined.
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#145 Tangerines

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 02:22 PM

Beg to differ.

Kassian is having a nightmare in Chicago. I watched yet another poor performance today. The guy is losing touch with the basics. His puck handling, positioning, ability to use his physique, is just not there. Dare I say he is going backwards.

He is not helped in my opinion by the apparent total lack of system and some of his team mates trying to outdo him in mediocrity. It is an understatement to say I am very disappointed in his progress down there.

As for any comparisons with Hodgson, please!.............Hodgson always looked like he new what he was doing, especially with his ability to come away with the puck and distribute. Kassian and Tanev need to get away from Chicago before they are both ruined.



I agree. Arneil is a joke, and his system (whatever that is) sucks. He is going to ruin our prospects imo, So In saying that I hope the NHL regular season starts soon. Not just for the sake of having an opportunity to watch NHL level hockey again, but also for the sake of our young prospects that have a chance at making the team to get the hell out of Chicago. Kassian, Shroeder, and Tanev really need to get the heck out of there and fast..
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#146 King of the ES

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 03:08 PM

I agree. Arneil is a joke, and his system (whatever that is) sucks. He is going to ruin our prospects imo, So In saying that I hope the NHL regular season starts soon. Not just for the sake of having an opportunity to watch NHL level hockey again, but also for the sake of our young prospects that have a chance at making the team to get the hell out of Chicago. Kassian, Shroeder, and Tanev really need to get the heck out of there and fast..


Howcome it's so often the coach that gets blamed when the prospects don't perform?

Arneil coached/developed the following players for a significant period of time as head coach of the Moose:
  • Jannik Hansen
  • Alex Edler
  • Rick Rypien
  • Mason Raymond
  • Luc Bourdon
  • Cory Schneider
  • Cody Hodgson
  • Michael Grabner
Pretty good list. So either Arneil has forgotten how to coach, or the prospects in question might not be as good as we hope. I would tend to lean towards the latter.
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#147 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 03:25 PM

Howcome it's so often the coach that gets blamed when the prospects don't perform?

Arneil coached/developed the following players for a significant period of time as head coach of the Moose:

  • Jannik Hansen
  • Alex Edler
  • Rick Rypien
  • Mason Raymond
  • Luc Bourdon
  • Cory Schneider
  • Cody Hodgson
  • Michael Grabner
Pretty good list. So either Arneil has forgotten how to coach, or the prospects in question might not be as good as we hope. I would tend to lean towards the latter.



Did you watch the Moose? They were heads and shoulders better then the way this team is playing right now. If you can't tell that there's coaching problems when you watch the Wolves then I don't know what to tell you....

No wonder you have such a bad rep on here.

It really does seem like Arniel forgot how to coach. I mean, Archibald scores on the pp, he takes him off. Schroeder,Kassian, Archibald score a goal, he splits them up

Theres no system, even Tanev looks lost sometimes. I haven't seen any of Kassians puck protection skills or physicality or anything that I saw the first couple of games.

Edit: It's not just prospects that are doing bad? Ebbett, Haydar, Gordon, Sterling etc.

Even Valk walk saying the coach doesn't know how to use his players properly. Kassian and Archibald should be IN FRONT OF THE NET BATTLING, not at the halfboards.

Edited by TheGame., 30 December 2012 - 03:27 PM.

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#148 Nino

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 04:59 PM

Did you watch the Moose? They were heads and shoulders better then the way this team is playing right now. If you can't tell that there's coaching problems when you watch the Wolves then I don't know what to tell you....

No wonder you have such a bad rep on here.

It really does seem like Arniel forgot how to coach. I mean, Archibald scores on the pp, he takes him off. Schroeder,Kassian, Archibald score a goal, he splits them up

Theres no system, even Tanev looks lost sometimes. I haven't seen any of Kassians puck protection skills or physicality or anything that I saw the first couple of games.

Edit: It's not just prospects that are doing bad? Ebbett, Haydar, Gordon, Sterling etc.

Even Valk walk saying the coach doesn't know how to use his players properly. Kassian and Archibald should be IN FRONT OF THE NET BATTLING, not at the halfboards.


From what I have seen of kassian he likes the half boards and the clean areas, he is not the power forward type player that we want him to be. I think he can be but it's hard for him to maintain the fight that he needs to battle in the hard areas. Some players have drive it some don't.
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#149 oldnews

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:22 AM

Yes
No

Neither
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#150 Bodee

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 05:50 AM

The fact remains I liked what I saw of Kassian when he first came to Vancouver but he seemed way short of stamina and tired quickly. I thought that was understandable as he still seemed to be carrying "puppy fat" But the thing was, I thought he had a "game" Now a few months in Chicago has put doubts in my mind.

Under MacT I thought the Wolves were patchy to say the least. However there were constants like Schroeder/Sweatt interplay and Tanev sailing through every match imperially, before he was called up and Haydar and Mancari looking like they understood the game ...................All of that seems to have evaporated.

Even under MacT, I struggled to see a system that ran through the lines. Not surprising, because I now think that was never intended either under MacT or Arneil. However they are constantly being bested by "lesser players" (apologies if that sounds disrespectful) playing to really strong systems that seem to run down the lines.

Another thing, how many times have the Wolves given up (more like handed over) an equaliser or a winning goal right after scoring? Talk about a fan pisser! If I was a Wolves fan I would be looking for some ass kickings for that alone.

Their passing is shoddy and 7/10 times causes the receiver to brake. Their outlets are giveaways/dumps. Their ability to come away with the puck on the boards (especially Kass and Archie who are big lads) is heartbreaking. They don't seem interested in checking (apart from Gordon and Archie) and seemed to always be out muscled.

What is the guys system? What are his tactics? For the life of me I can't see them. Here's a thought though, maybe he just doesn't rate the players he's been landed with.
I may even stop watching AHL now because watching the Wolves is doing my head in.
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