Jump to content

Welcome to canucks.com Vancouver Canucks homepage

Photo

27 Dead in Connecticut Elementary School Shooting


  • Please log in to reply
842 replies to this topic

#541 Electro Rock

Electro Rock

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,647 posts
  • Joined: 17-March 04

Posted 16 December 2012 - 01:54 PM

What fantasy scenario? You're the one arguing you need a gun to protect yourself in the event someone attacks you with a gun. Then it's even right? So it's not much a fantasy to argue everyone should get a gun. Then everyone's even.


In this world, being on a level playing field beats the heck out of having the deck stacked against you, whether its personal defense or some other thing.

If there's one thing true of human society, its that its better to deal from a position of strength, or at least general equality, rather than of weakness.
  • 0
"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened."

Norman Thomas

#542 inane

inane

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,074 posts
  • Joined: 06-July 07

Posted 16 December 2012 - 01:55 PM

In this world, being on a level playing field beats the heck out of having the deck stacked against you, whether its personal defense or some other thing.

If there's one thing true of human society, its that its better to deal from a position of strength, or at least general equality, rather than of weakness.


Ok, so play this one out for me then. I have a gun, so you get a gun to protect yourself from the threat of me. Now I see you have a gun, so I get two. So you get two, so I get rocket launcher, so you get one, so I get grenades, so you get some,etc....Where does it end?
  • 1

#543 EmployeeoftheMonth

EmployeeoftheMonth

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,631 posts
  • Joined: 04-September 06

Posted 16 December 2012 - 01:58 PM

What I'm arguing was just backed up with an article, and the post before me was too.

No one is suggesting every single person be armed. You're making this all up.. you should come back to Earth.


You could hold his hand on the way down since you were suggesting people thought no guns means no murder which in itself was you making it all up.
  • 3
Posted Image
Posted Image

#544 Mr. Ambien

Mr. Ambien

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,626 posts
  • Joined: 07-April 03

Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:01 PM

Yeah, and I can find an article where a kid shot a kid by accident. So what.

You're suggesting people should have guns to protect themselves from other people who have guns. How is it not logical to then suggest everyone should have a gun in order to protect themselves from everyone else?

The bigger picture is the disgusting fear based society you appear to live in. You're so scared of everyone around you you need to have a gun to protect yourself from some potential boogeyman. That's frackedup.

Newsflash: I don't own a gun, I'm not scared of any boogeyman, but thanks for yet another awful presumption devoid of reality.

It is not logical to suggest everyone should have a gun because not everyone can use one correctly or even responsibly.

You are really bad at this putting words in people's mouth thing.. oh, and basing your arguments on the real world. Your caricatures and straw man have failed you.

Edited by zaibatsu, 16 December 2012 - 02:03 PM.

  • 0

#545 inane

inane

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,074 posts
  • Joined: 06-July 07

Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:02 PM

Newsflash: I don't own a gun, I'm not scared of any boogeyman, but thanks for yet another awful presumption devoid of reality.

It is not logical to suggest everyone should have a gun because not everyone can use one correctly or even responsibly.

You are really bad at this putting words in people's mouth thing.. oh, and basing your arguments on the real world.


You're pretty good at ignoring my point.
  • 0

#546 Electro Rock

Electro Rock

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,647 posts
  • Joined: 17-March 04

Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:03 PM

Ok, so play this one out for me then. I have a gun, so you get a gun to protect yourself from the threat of me. Now I see you have a gun, so I get two. So you get two, so I get rocket launcher, so you get one, so I get grenades, so you get some,etc....Where does it end?


Realistically, you quickly reach a point of diminishing gains when it comes to small arms, and they get really expense beyond the rifle level so not many people would be having that stuff even if it were legally available.
  • 0
"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened."

Norman Thomas

#547 inane

inane

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,074 posts
  • Joined: 06-July 07

Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:04 PM

Realistically, you quickly reach a point of diminishing gains when it comes to small arms, and they get really expense beyond the rifle level so not many people would be having that stuff even if it were legally available.


Surely you see my point? Hopefully?
  • 0

#548 Mr. Ambien

Mr. Ambien

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,626 posts
  • Joined: 07-April 03

Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:07 PM

You're pretty good at ignoring my point.

You don't have much of a point.. bad presumptions, illogical fantasy scenarios, mind boggling snowball rolling downhill nonsense.

I get it all.
  • 0

#549 inane

inane

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,074 posts
  • Joined: 06-July 07

Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:09 PM

You don't have much of a point.. bad presumptions, illogical fantasy scenarios, mind boggling snowball rolling downhill nonsense.

I get it all.


No, you don't. But that's ok.
  • 2

#550 Electro Rock

Electro Rock

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,647 posts
  • Joined: 17-March 04

Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:19 PM

Surely you see my point? Hopefully?


Well you'll notice that even folks that don't have any real restrictions on what what weapons they can carry, like the SEALs or whoever, will be mostly be not carrying anything bigger than a rifle.

Its a matter of practicality.
  • 0
"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened."

Norman Thomas

#551 inane

inane

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,074 posts
  • Joined: 06-July 07

Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:23 PM

Well you'll notice that even folks that don't have any real restrictions on what what weapons they can carry, like the SEALs or whoever, will be mostly be not carrying anything bigger than a rifle.

Its a matter of practicality.


I guess I don't think it is very practical to have an armed society just because you're scared of everyone else. The need for the gun is a symptom of something much bigger.
  • 0

#552 Tearloch7

Tearloch7

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,961 posts
  • Joined: 15-July 10

Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:27 PM

I guess I don't think it is very practical to have an armed society just because you're scared of everyone else. The need for the gun is a symptom of something much bigger.


And thus the Hummer was invented .. the old "mine is bigger than yours" mentality .. :)
  • 0

"To Thine Own Self Be True"

 

"Always tell the Truth. That way, you don’t have to remember what you said"  ~ Mark Twain ~
 


#553 Electro Rock

Electro Rock

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,647 posts
  • Joined: 17-March 04

Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:36 PM

I guess I don't think it is very practical to have an armed society just because you're scared of everyone else. The need for the gun is a symptom of something much bigger.


The main reason for the 2nd Amendment is to give you teeth in the face of a tyrannical government, personal defense is a secondary issue.

And being proactive, not passive, in the face of possible threats is not a sign of fear.
  • 0
"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened."

Norman Thomas

#554 RUPERTKBD

RUPERTKBD

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,832 posts
  • Joined: 23-July 04

Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:37 PM

Well that's what I'm talking about, a federal law. Not banning everything, but these types of weapons. It seems like a no-brainer. No one needs these military grade weapons.

It certainly seems that way. Unfortunately, as this very thread shows, brains are in short supply south of the 49th.

The 2nd Amendment and the fact that a bunch of creepy elites don't want to have them, say otherwise.

You mean "the 2nd amendment and a bunch of brain-dead, paranoid rednecks who can't figure out that a 200 year-old document doesn't have the same relevance that it had when it was written", say otherwise.

Ok, so just playing Devil's Advocate here but what about the cases that have been documented when a crime or a death has actually been prevented because the potential victim was armed with a way to defend themselves?

Not even in the same universe as the number of people, children included, that have been killed either inadvertently, or in the heat of the moment, because there happened to be a gun within easy reach.
  • 1
Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#555 Scott Hartnell's Mane

Scott Hartnell's Mane

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,211 posts
  • Joined: 14-December 12

Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:38 PM

And thus the Hummer was invented .. the old "mine is bigger than yours" mentality .. :)


Conjuring up an old Carlin bit where he talks about politics and war et al being nothing more than immature prick-waving...lol so essentially when a "below average" man feels inadequate, to make himself feel better, he goes down and buys a big ass shotgun which in his delusional mind makes up for anything he feels inferior about.
  • 1
Posted Image

Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.


#556 Scott Hartnell's Mane

Scott Hartnell's Mane

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,211 posts
  • Joined: 14-December 12

Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:41 PM

It certainly seems that way. Unfortunately, as this very thread shows, brains are in short supply south of the 49th.


You mean "the 2nd amendment and a bunch of brain-dead, paranoid rednecks who can't figure out that a 200 year-old document doesn't have the same relevance that it had when it was written", say otherwise.


Not even in the same universe as the number of people, children included, that have been killed either inadvertently, or in the heat of the moment, because there happened to be a gun within easy reach.


Ok, so wouldn't you think a more logical solution than tight gun control laws may be to require anyone who is buying a gun for the first time to pass a gun-safety exam or at the very least a psychological one? You cannot blame the guns themselves for the inadvertent deaths of these people...you can however blame the incompetent parents who fail to make sure their children can't get ahold of said guns.
  • 0
Posted Image

Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.


#557 inane

inane

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,074 posts
  • Joined: 06-July 07

Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:43 PM

The main reason for the 2nd Amendment is to give you teeth in the face of a tyrannical government, personal defense is a secondary issue.

And being proactive, not passive, in the face of possible threats is not a sign of fear.


And how many people do you think are buying guns and using guns for the original reason?
  • 0

#558 Electro Rock

Electro Rock

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,647 posts
  • Joined: 17-March 04

Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:47 PM

RUPERTKBD

You mean "the 2nd amendment and a bunch of brain-dead, paranoid rednecks who can't figure out that a 200 year-old document doesn't have the same relevance that it had when it was written", say otherwise.


So freedom of speech and all the others contained therein are no longer relevant? Gotcha.

And don't worry, if they can neutralize the 2nd Amendment, the rest will follow at some point.
  • 1
"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened."

Norman Thomas

#559 Pouria

Pouria

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,933 posts
  • Joined: 25-October 08

Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:49 PM

The main reason for the 2nd Amendment is to give you teeth in the face of a tyrannical government, personal defense is a secondary issue.

And being proactive, not passive, in the face of possible threats is not a sign of fear.


I call BS on that one. I don't see us Canadians arming ourselves in the face of a "tyrannical government". We have democracy and elections for a reason.
  • 0

Posted Image


#560 Scott Hartnell's Mane

Scott Hartnell's Mane

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,211 posts
  • Joined: 14-December 12

Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:49 PM

So freedom of speech and all the others contained therein are no longer relevant? Gotcha.

And don't worry, if they can neutralize the 2nd Amendment, the rest will follow at some point.


This is the point I have been trying to make in the other thread...once the nation is disarmed, what will stop the government from doing away with the other rights? Nothing.
  • 0
Posted Image

Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.


#561 Scott Hartnell's Mane

Scott Hartnell's Mane

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,211 posts
  • Joined: 14-December 12

Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:51 PM

I call BS on that one. I don't see us Canadians arming ourselves in the face of a "tyrannical government". We have democracy and elections for a reason.


Hey newsflash smart guy maybe he was talking about the US? You know the Second amendment to the US Constitution? What you do in Canada is quite frankly irrelevant as it pertains to what we do down here.
  • 0
Posted Image

Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.


#562 Pouria

Pouria

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,933 posts
  • Joined: 25-October 08

Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:52 PM

So freedom of speech and all the others contained therein are no longer relevant? Gotcha.

And don't worry, if they can neutralize the 2nd Amendment, the rest will follow at some point.


Yeah, because having the right to arm yourself with an AK-47 is similar to freedom of speech. You sound worse than some of the nut jobs in US who protest against gun control. Maybe they should also have the right to own tanks and nuclear weapons because of the "tyrannical government".
  • 0

Posted Image


#563 Pouria

Pouria

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,933 posts
  • Joined: 25-October 08

Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:54 PM

Hey newsflash smart guy maybe he was talking about the US? You know the Second amendment to the US Constitution? What you do in Canada is quite frankly irrelevant as it pertains to what we do down here.


Well it seems what everyone does outside of US is irrelevant. They just march to their own beat and could care less what the outside world does. It is such a backward mentality that its amazing they are considered a first world country. Some of their cities look worse than a third world country.
  • 0

Posted Image


#564 Scott Hartnell's Mane

Scott Hartnell's Mane

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,211 posts
  • Joined: 14-December 12

Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:56 PM

Yeah, because having the right to arm yourself with an AK-47 is similar to freedom of speech. You sound worse than some of the nut jobs in US who protest against gun control. Maybe they should also have the right to own tanks and nuclear weapons because of the "tyrannical government".


I would love to know the "frame of reference" you have to comment on anything as it pertains to the US and its Constitution. Actually, the Right to bear arms is absolutely on equal footing with every other right guaranteed by the Constitution. No one right trumps any other.
  • 0
Posted Image

Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.


#565 Scott Hartnell's Mane

Scott Hartnell's Mane

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,211 posts
  • Joined: 14-December 12

Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:56 PM

Well it seems what everyone does outside of US is irrelevant. They just march to their own beat and could care less what the outside world does. It is such a backward mentality that its amazing they are considered a first world country. Some of their cities look worse than a third world country.


Now you've got it.
  • 0
Posted Image

Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.


#566 RUPERTKBD

RUPERTKBD

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,832 posts
  • Joined: 23-July 04

Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:58 PM

Ok, so wouldn't you think a more logical solution than tight gun control laws may be to require anyone who is buying a gun for the first time to pass a gun-safety exam or at the very least a psychological one? You cannot blame the guns themselves for the inadvertent deaths of these people...you can however blame the incompetent parents who fail to make sure their children can't get ahold of said guns.

If you'd been following this thread from the beginning, you'd know that I advocate restrictions on certain types of weapons and certain types of ammunition, other than an outright ban on guns. Exams and background checks should certainly be part of the process, but IMO, they are not adequate on their own.

So freedom of speech and all the others contained therein are no longer relevant? Gotcha.

And don't worry, if they can neutralize the 2nd Amendment, the rest will follow at some point.

Where is "freedom of speech" mentioned in the 2nd amendment?

Also, the old "If you take away our bazookas, next you'll be after our hunting rifles" is one of the most trite, weak arguments extant.
  • 0
Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#567 Pouria

Pouria

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,933 posts
  • Joined: 25-October 08

Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:59 PM

This is the point I have been trying to make in the other thread...once the nation is disarmed, what will stop the government from doing away with the other rights? Nothing.


And what makes you think armed citizens are the sole reason why some of their rights haven't been thrown out by the government? Fact of the matter is that there has been more strict control of the internet by the US government and their "armed" citizens haven't done crap. The government has taken away some right and the Americans haven't done anything with their guns. What are they going to do? March to White house with their guns and say don't take away our rights? Hilarious!

We aren't living in the 1860's anymore people, wake up.

Edited by Pouria, 16 December 2012 - 03:00 PM.

  • 0

Posted Image


#568 Scott Hartnell's Mane

Scott Hartnell's Mane

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,211 posts
  • Joined: 14-December 12

Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:00 PM

If you'd been following this thread from the beginning, you'd know that I advocate restrictions on certain types of weapons and certain types of ammunition, other than an outright ban on guns. Exams and background checks should certainly be part of the process, but IMO, they are not adequate on their own.


Where is "freedom of speech" mentioned in the 2nd amendment?

Also, the old "If you take away our bazookas, next you'll be after our hunting rifles" is one of the most trite, weak arguments extant.


Freedom of Speech is mentioned in the Bill of Rights, which I would wager is what he was talking about.
  • 0
Posted Image

Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.


#569 stawns

stawns

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,160 posts
  • Joined: 10-August 03

Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:02 PM

This is the point I have been trying to make in the other thread...once the nation is disarmed, what will stop the government from doing away with the other rights? Nothing.


how can you say that with a straight face? Are you guys down there so paranoid and insecure that you truly believe that? This isn't medieval Europe
  • 0

#570 Electro Rock

Electro Rock

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,647 posts
  • Joined: 17-March 04

Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:03 PM

Well it seems what everyone does outside of US is irrelevant. They just march to their own beat and could care less what the outside world does. It is such a backward mentality that its amazing they are considered a first world country. Some of their cities look worse than a third world country.


You mean like Detroit and the like? Aren't those leftist cities?

And it goes without saying that someone from Iran of all places has a lot of nerve calling the U.S. backwards.
  • 1
"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened."

Norman Thomas




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Canucks.com is the official Web site of The Vancouver Canucks. The Vancouver Canucks and Canucks.com are trademarks of The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership.  NHL and the word mark and image of the Stanley Cup are registered trademarks and the NHL Shield and NHL Conference logos are trademarks of the National Hockey League. All NHL logos and marks and NHL team logos and marks as well as all other proprietary materials depicted herein are the property of the NHL and the respective NHL teams and may not be reproduced without the prior written consent of NHL Enterprises, L.P.  Copyright © 2009 The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership and the National Hockey League.  All Rights Reserved.