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27 Dead in Connecticut Elementary School Shooting


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#61 Electro Rock

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:34 PM

Who's "targeting" civilian gun ownership?

Whoever they are, they're doing a lousy job....


The same bunch who've done so much to move us towards being a police state in recent years.

Again, why didn't these things happen back in the '70s or whenever when conditions were a lot more favorable?
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#62 Special Ed

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:37 PM

Personally above all I blame the media for these events. It's the coverage and notoriety that these sick individuals want.
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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#63 Kassian

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:37 PM

"If any other plague was leaving piles of dead bodies all over the country, including children, our country would figure it out."
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#64 Buggernut

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:38 PM

Absolutely horrible!

But is anyone surprised?
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#65 Buggernut

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:40 PM

Personally above all I blame the media for these events. It's the coverage and notoriety that these sick individuals want.


Censorship and keeping people in the dark would be even more dangerous.
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#66 Special Ed

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:41 PM

The same bunch who've done so much to move us towards being a police state in recent years.

Again, why didn't these things happen back in the '70s or whenever when conditions were a lot more favorable?


It's not gun laws. The reason this happens now is because how crazy media coverage is and even us talking about it here right now on the Internet is exactly what those shooters want. It's a sick and twisted attention grab.
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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#67 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:42 PM

@USATODAY: BREAKING: Reports: Conn. shooter identified; parents found dead in their N.J. home http://t.co/VX1qWtYK
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#68 DonLever

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:42 PM

Does Connecticut have the death penalty?


Whether Connecticut have the death penalty is irrelevant in this case since the shooter is among the dead. Now comes the debate over gun control, agian.
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#69 Scottish⑦Canuck

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:43 PM

It's not gun laws. The reason this happens now is because how crazy media coverage is and even us talking about it here right now on the Internet is exactly what those shooters want. It's a sick and twisted attention grab.


You sure about that?
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#70 Special Ed

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:44 PM

Censorship and keeping people in the dark would be even more dangerous.


I disagree these events are starting to happen more often and only in an age where communication is so abundant. As I always say that there are more shooters out there who watch the coverage and envy the killer. I would bet that this killer was strongly motivated by the coverage of previous attacks. That's just my opinion though.
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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#71 Bill Sikes

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:45 PM

The NRA will NOT want to talk about this .. they never do when guns are used in such a horrific manner .. they spew their credo that guns don't kill people, that people do .. WRONG .. bullets kill people .. 2nd Amendment guarantee's the right to bear arms but it does not guarantee the right to limitless clips and the bullets within .. what a sad, sad day ..

Too many of these incidents involving kids seem to happen around Christmas .. I wonder why? .. because tho it is the season to be jolly, it is also a very depressing time for many people ..

18 children and 8 adults dead .. one shooter dead, apparently ..

They will lay low for a brief period then come out with some warped statement about if the teachers were allowed to carry guns he would have been stopped
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#72 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:46 PM

@CBSNews: BREAKING: WCBS-TV reports that shooter's mother was teacher at school, many of the victims apparently her students @CBSNewYork
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#73 Hugemanskost

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:48 PM

The Second Amendment of the US Constitution needs to be changed. It was written in the late 18th century where the "...right to bear arms..." held a totally different meaning, although the members of the idiotic NRA will say differently. The whole "...regulated Militia..." argument is really only valid today to Neo-Nazis and marginal groups / gangs who want to overthrow the government.

Wanna leave areal legacy after your presidency, Barrack? Ban guns.
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#74 Special Ed

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:49 PM

You sure about that?


Yup this wasn't such a common occurrence 10 years ago or before we had the Internet. It became more prevalent during the more recent age of communication. These killers are looking for national attention. They know you will visit their Facebook page after and it's exactly things like that they want. Which is why it's not a simple suicide but instead the added need for attention.

Changing gun laws would be pointless. The potential killers out there have already seen all the coverage and will find a way to get it done regardless.

Edited by Special Ed, 14 December 2012 - 12:52 PM.

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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#75 Wetcoaster

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:51 PM

Gun control is useful but it is not a guarantee that such killings will never happen - consider gun control to be on the order of "harm reduction".

We had situation recently here in BC with a person who had a "kill list" with perceived grievances against certain people.

He was previously detained under the BC Mental Health Act by Victoria police and his weapon seized but it was returned to him. There is an ongoing investigation into the actions (or lack of action) of the Victoria Police as there is provision to revoke the firearms license for someone who is a danger to the public.


Victoria police seized a firearm from suspected killer Angus Mitchell in February after he was arrested under the Mental Health Act.

Mitchell had taken his gun to a medical clinic in Saanich and made veiled threats.

He was released with no charges. Police returned the gun to him several weeks later without anyone making an application to court to have his firearms licence revoked.

Mitchell, 26, is believed to have embarked on a murderous rampage in Metro Vancouver this week, killing two people at a Burnaby sushi restaurant, shooting and wounding a former landlord and hunting others with whom he had grievances.

He died in a shootout with RCMP Wednesday in Maple Ridge that is now the subject of a Vancouver police department investigation.

VPD Const. Jana McGuinness confirmed Friday that Victoria police have asked VPD to review how the gun seizure and subsequent return was handled.

"The firearm was seized during a Mental Health Act apprehension. The review by Vancouver police will also examine whether [that] firearm is connected to the recent tragic incidents involving Mr. Mitchell," McGuinness said.

The Vancouver Sun has learned that Victoria police contacted the RCMP's National Weapons Enforcement Support Team to find out the process for applying to revoke Mitchell's gun licence.

Victoria police was told it didn't have enough evidence at the time, but should follow up with interviews of clinic staff members, as well as Mitchell's Victoria neighbours and former co-workers to see if there were grounds to apply to the court to keep the gun.

Police in Victoria have not disclosed what officers did to investigate Mitchell's suitability to get his gun back, but The Sun has confirmed the firearm was returned without the matter being heard in court.

The earlier Victoria incident occurred at the Uptown Medical Clinic in Saanich on Feb. 7 when Mitchell arrived, toting a rifle case, to see his doctor.

He was allowed to go into his appointment, but was told to leave the case in the lobby.

"There was an implied threat rather than a direct threat," Dr. Ian Bridger told the Victoria Times Colonist. "It was felt to be inappropriate."

Mitchell left the clinic and staff called Saanich police. The gunman was arrested under the Mental Health Act by Victoria police and his rifle was seized.

Mitchell, a former security guard, was exhibiting unstable and aggressive behaviour for months before he was killed this week, according to former co-workers and employers.

He is believed to have entered Royal Oak Sushi House about 9:30 p.m. on Sunday and gunned down restaurant owner Andy Tran and his employee, Chinh (Vivian) Diem Huynh, a single mom of a young girl.

On Tuesday evening Mitchell is suspected of going hunting again, shooting his former landlord in the 4400-block of Gilpin in Burnaby. The man survived the attack.

RCMP Insp. Tim Shields issued an urgent warning Wednesday morning that Mitchell was armed and dangerous and possibly wanting to harm others.

A tipster reported seeing his green 1994 van in Maple Ridge and police moved in and tried to talk to him. He shot at them instead and was fatally wounded.

Sgt. Jennifer Pound, of the Integrated Homicide Investigation Team, said Friday that "forensic examination has now confirmed that the weapon seized from Mitchell [after he was killed in the shootout] was indeed the weapon used in the double homicide and also the one used in the attempted homicide of the Burnaby shooting victim."

However, police have not established that gun is the same weapon returned to Mitchell earlier this year.

Pound said no motive has yet been established for Mitchell's crimes. And she thanked all the policing agencies who worked so hard Wednesday when investigators were searching for Mitchell. "This operation was an effective collaboration between law enforcement and the general public in B.C.," she said.

NDP health critic Mike Farnworth said Friday that the return of the gun was "just unacceptable."

"The bottom line is this: if this arrest was made under the Mental Health Act, then clearly we need to know what happened, we need to know why he was released, why nothing else was done, but more importantly why was the firearm given back to him," he said.

Farnworth demanded the government and police investigate "what protocols are in place" in gun-related mental health incidents, whether they were followed and "if they weren't, why not?"
http://www.vancouver...l#ixzz2F3TbL7f2


Edited by Wetcoaster, 14 December 2012 - 12:52 PM.

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#76 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:51 PM

It's not gun laws. The reason this happens now is because how crazy media coverage is and even us talking about it here right now on the Internet is exactly what those shooters want. It's a sick and twisted attention grab.

I think a lot more crimes have happened with the goal of the criminals not wanting everyone to know about it.

Stiffer guns laws obviously make it a lot more difficult for these kind of crimes to be committed, whatever their intent is.
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#77 Scottish⑦Canuck

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:53 PM

Yup this wasn't such a common occurrence 10 years ago or before we had the Internet. It became more prevalent during the more recent age of communication. These killers are looking for national attention. They know you will visit their Facebook page after and it's exactly things like that they want. Which is why it's not a simple suicide but instead the added need for attention.


Media is a factor, but at the end of the day if it wasn't so easy to get a hold of a firearm in the United States and if firearms weren't so deeply ingrained into US culture this probably wouldn't have happened.
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#78 hockeyville88

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:56 PM

The reports are making it sound like something out of a movie. Doesn't seem real. The dead are gone for no reason, and the survivors have lost their innocence. Why? What's the point? It's sad.
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#79 Hobble

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:56 PM

This is sick. How can any sane person argue that a civilian should own a gun like that, let alone buy it at Wal-Mart.
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#80 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:57 PM

Yup this wasn't such a common occurrence 10 years ago or before we had the Internet. It became more prevalent during the more recent age of communication. These killers are looking for national attention. They know you will visit their Facebook page after and it's exactly things like that they want. Which is why it's not a simple suicide but instead the added need for attention.

If we had the internet, massive atrocities, like, oh i dunno, the holocaust!?! likely would've been exposed, condemned by the world and mostly prevented.

But Son of Sam, the Manson family, and even Dahmer... ALL did their business before social media's rise.

All twitter and facebook does is make us learn of these crimes faster. That's it.
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#81 Hockey!?

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:57 PM

Facebook took the page down.

Posted Image


That's not the shooter.

Source: https://twitter.com/...670099496034305

And: https://twitter.com/...8/photo/1/large

Edited by Hockey!?, 14 December 2012 - 12:58 PM.

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#82 Special Ed

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:01 PM

Facebook and twitter. Two of the biggest reasons these things happen.
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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#83 Hobble

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:02 PM

Facebook and twitter. Two of the biggest reasons these things happen.


Tweets don't kill people. Twits kill people.
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#84 Scottish⑦Canuck

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:03 PM

Facebook and twitter. Two of the biggest reasons these things happen.


Explain.
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#85 Phil_314

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:04 PM

What will it take for them to finally get some proper gun control?


Oh if I got a nickel every time someone asks that question... how I've always seen it was that their gun control policy has already had adverse effects on their society and yet their "peace through strength" mantra is doing in the most defenseless members of their society. Truly sad to see it backfire on them like that :sadno:

Guillotine the other idiot, time to spread fear for those who would dare commit these atrocities.


If only it was that easy to stop the crazy in this world... it's not about punishment but the whole culture needs to change, to address the issue of ease of access to weapons and also address the injustice or whatever other social issue that affects the shooters so they wouldn't resort to harming children of all people :picard:

may those who were killed R.I.P. and comfort be with the families devastated by this.
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#86 Wetcoaster

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:06 PM

The Second Amendment of the US Constitution needs to be changed. It was written in the late 18th century where the "...right to bear arms..." held a totally different meaning, although the members of the idiotic NRA will say differently. The whole "...regulated Militia..." argument is really only valid today to Neo-Nazis and marginal groups / gangs who want to overthrow the government.

Wanna leave areal legacy after your presidency, Barrack? Ban guns.

Actually over time the Second Amendment to the US Constitution has been interpreted differently by the Supreme Court of the USA. Here is the clause:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.


Three basic competing models were offered to interpret the Second Amendment:
  • The first, known as the "states' rights" or "collective rights" model, was that the Second Amendment did not apply to individuals; rather, it recognized the right of a state to arm its militia.
  • The second, known as the "sophisticated collective rights model", held that the Second Amendment recognized some limited individual right. However, this individual right could only be exercised by members of a functioning, organized state militia while actively participating in the organized militia’s activities.
  • The third, known as the "standard model", was that the Second Amendment recognized the personal right of individuals to keep and bear arms.
Previously the first two interpretations were advanced but recent SCOTUS decisions have adopted the third individual rights view in District of Columbia v. Heller, (2008); and McDonald v. Chicago (2010).

In Heller and McDonald the U.S. Supreme Court supported the individual rights model, under which the Second Amendment protects the right to keep and bear arms much as the First Amendment protects the right to free speech. Under this model the militia is composed of members who supply their own arms and ammunition. This is generally recognized as the method by which U.S. militias have historically been armed.

The signification attributed to the term Militia appears from the debates in the Convention, the history and legislation of Colonies and States, and the writings of approved commentators. These show plainly enough that the Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. 'A body of citizens enrolled for military discipline.' And further, that ordinarily when called for service these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time.


Of the collective rights model that holds that the right to arms is based on militia membership, the U.S. Supreme Court, in Heller, had this to say:

A purposive qualifying phrase that contradicts the word or phrase it modifies is unknown this side of the looking glass (except, apparently, in some courses on Linguistics). If “bear arms” means, as we think, simply the carrying of arms, a modifier can limit the purpose of the carriage (“for the purpose of self-defense” or “to make war against the King”). But if “bear arms” means, as the petitioners and the dissent think, the carrying of arms only for military purposes, one simply cannot add “for the purpose of killing game.” The right “to carry arms in the militia for the purpose of killing game” is worthy of the mad hatter.


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#87 M A K A V E L I 96

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:09 PM

That's not the shooter.

Source: https://twitter.com/...670099496034305

And: https://twitter.com/...8/photo/1/large


All the news stations have already put up that image everywhere.
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#88 Lancaster

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:11 PM

Treat the cause, not the symptom.
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#89 Tearloch7

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:12 PM

The media, social communication, guns and levels of violence in our entertainment viewing all contribute to a culture that is feeding on its own excesses .. politicians, who are too cowardly to attempt to address this "culture", are complicit in these acts ..

I fear this is only the beginning .. so many returning Vets with emotional problems and martial skills will exacerbate the "problem" .. be prepared for more of this .. :(
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#90 Pineapples

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:14 PM

Absolutely disgusting.

Has the abomination of a human being been caught yet? I keep hearing different stories on that.

If this is to be prevented, there's a few things that need to be done:

-Change that ridiculous gun law. No one needs guns like that. And definitely get a better background check if you must supply people with killing machines.

-If a killer is caught, without a doubt he/she was the killer, institute a better punishment. Get it through their heads that if you kill someone, you WILL pay. Going to jail or an insane asylum isn't enough to send the message.

-If someone has a history of murder or attempted murder, or clearly is too unstable to be living on their own, don't let them live on their own. If people can buy guns, and if you wouldn't trust that person with a gun, then they should be under supervision.

There's other things of course but I can't think straight right now, I'm too disgusted. So sorry if it's blunt.

My condolences to the victims of this tragedy and their families.
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