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#181 Apples

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:42 PM

What the hell is wrong with these people
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#182 Primus099

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:42 PM

Damn, I must have missed our latest shooting of the week. Oh wait...


right because it didn't happen last week means they don't happen up here...oh wait they do
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#183 Scottish⑦Canuck

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:42 PM

you seriously think gun laws would prevent criminals from getting their hands on them? lol whatever makes you feel better, they can pretty much get anything they want with a simple phone call


But most of these people, prior to the incidents, aren't criminals, are they? It's usually someone who has obviously developed some sort of mental illness, and in most cases people who know them are shocked at how the person they thought they knew could do such a thing.

Restrict the sale of firearms so that they're not easily available to these people and you'll see a reduction in these sort of events happening. There are plenty of criminals here in the UK, but don't see anything close to the number of mass shootings as the US. When I was growing up there was a massacre at a school in Dunblane (Andy Murray was actually in attendance there at the time), and the response from the government was to ban handguns. We haven't seen an incident like it in Scotland since, and there wasn't one on it's scale in the whole of the UK until a few years ago when a guy went on a rampage down in Cumbria.

Edited by Scottish⑦Canuck, 14 December 2012 - 03:45 PM.

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#184 inder19

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:43 PM

this is whats wrong with these people
https://twitter.com/...8983298/photo/1
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#185 Scottish⑦Canuck

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:43 PM

right because it didn't happen last week means they don't happen up here...oh wait they do


But at nowhere near the frequency at which they occur in the US.
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#186 Down by the River

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:43 PM

you seriously think gun laws would prevent criminals from getting their hands on them? lol whatever makes you feel better, they can pretty much get anything they want with a simple phone call








On the economic front, gun violence was higher in states with lower average incomes. Similarly, gun violence was less likely in states with more college graduates and stronger knowledge-based economies. Gun violence was also higher in states that tend to vote Republican.


Firearm deaths are significantly lower in states with stricter gun control legislation. Though the sample sizes are small, we find substantial negative correlations between firearm deaths and states that ban assault weapons (-.45), require trigger locks (-.42), and mandate safe storage requirements for guns (-.48).



http://www.theatlant...oCSc9gDE.mailto


Edited by Down by the River, 14 December 2012 - 03:46 PM.

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OMG we could've had McKeown!

I think Virtanen was a terrible pick given that he's out for 6 months which will hinder his development. You don't pick someone at #6 under that circumstance, along with the fact that he was given a 3/5 IQ (aka he's dumb). 

God dammit Benning. WHY VIRTANEN? Terrible move.

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#187 Primus099

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:44 PM

But at nowhere near the frequency at which they occur in the US.


because there's 10 times more people in the US and probably at least 10 times more guns, therefore 10 times the potential for some lunatic to go on a rampage.
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#188 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:44 PM

this is whats wrong with these people
https://twitter.com/...8983298/photo/1


Oh man, that's just sick :( :sick:

But then we all know which CDC user that is, don't we? His off-CDC posts don't differ much from those that got him suspended from here.

Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 14 December 2012 - 10:22 PM.

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#189 Dellins

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:45 PM

right because it didn't happen last week means they don't happen up here...oh wait they do


Do they happen anywhere near as frequently compared to the USA? Never mind Canada, how about other industrialized nations?

I'm willing to bet America has had more school shootings in the past, let's say 20 years, than the rest of the Industrialized world combined.
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#190 Jägermeister

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:46 PM

because there's 10 times more people in the US and probably at least 10 times more guns, therefore 10 times the potential for some lunatic to go on a rampage.


More Guns = More Violence, ergo Less Guns = Less Violence.
You just proved Gun Control works.

Either that or you don't understand how "per capita rates" work.

Edited by Jägermeister, 14 December 2012 - 03:47 PM.

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#191 Primus099

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:47 PM

More Guns = More Violence, ergo Less Guns = Less Violence.
You just proved Gun Control works.


should we ban knives too then? how come this isn't getting as much attention

The Associated Press
Published Friday, Dec. 14, 2012 6:18AM EST
BEIJING -- A knife-wielding man injured 22 children and one adult outside a primary school in central China as students were arriving for classes Friday, police said, the latest in a series of periodic rampage attacks at Chinese schools and kindergartens.
The attack in the Henan province village of Chengping happened shortly before 8 a.m., said a police officer from Guangshan county, where the village is located.
The attacker, 36-year-old villager Min Yingjun, is now in police custody, said the officer, who declined to give her name, as is customary among Chinese civil servants.
A Guangshan county hospital administrator said the man first attacked an elderly woman, then students, before being subdued by security guards who have been posted across China following a spate of school attacks in recent years. He said there were no deaths among the nine students admitted, although two badly injured children had been transferred to better-equipped hospitals outside


Theres way too many guns in America now for gun control to matter. You could drive to washington right now and buy a gun from a website without even id. In many states ftf or face to face gun sales between private parties have no control. But even without guns theres still baseball bats and knives and bombs so the problem is nutballs

Edited by Primus099, 14 December 2012 - 03:48 PM.

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#192 KittenMittons

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:48 PM

I actually just saw this and thought it was quite relevant to the conversation. Something I keep hearing during tragedies like this one is that extensive news coverage only acts as a catalyst for more shootings. I mean, with the Aurora shootings having taken place about five months ago, this is becoming a huge, horrific problem all over the US and the world.


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#193 Wetcoaster

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:49 PM

Total gun ban. Now!

In the US of A? Not without a constitutional amendment and that seems unlikely.
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#194 Jägermeister

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:50 PM

Theres way too many guns in America now for gun control to matter. You could drive to washington right now and buy a gun from a website without even id. In many states ftf or face to face gun sales between private parties have no control. But even without guns theres still baseball bats and knives and bombs so the problem is nutballs


You heard it here first folks, the world is so messed up it isn't even worth taking the steps to try and fix it.
And just an FYI, guns are a heck of a lot more dangerous then a baseball bat or knives, and powerful explosives are illegal.

Edited by Jägermeister, 14 December 2012 - 03:52 PM.

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#195 Scottish⑦Canuck

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:52 PM

should we ban knives too then? how come this isn't getting as much attention

The Associated Press
Published Friday, Dec. 14, 2012 6:18AM EST
BEIJING -- A knife-wielding man injured 22 children and one adult outside a primary school in central China as students were arriving for classes Friday, police said, the latest in a series of periodic rampage attacks at Chinese schools and kindergartens.
The attack in the Henan province village of Chengping happened shortly before 8 a.m., said a police officer from Guangshan county, where the village is located.
The attacker, 36-year-old villager Min Yingjun, is now in police custody, said the officer, who declined to give her name, as is customary among Chinese civil servants.
A Guangshan county hospital administrator said the man first attacked an elderly woman, then students, before being subdued by security guards who have been posted across China following a spate of school attacks in recent years. He said there were no deaths among the nine students admitted, although two badly injured children had been transferred to better-equipped hospitals outside


That's also a disgusting incident, but do you think that there would have been no fatalities had their attacker been wielding a near military grade assault rifle? I'm assuming that guns are less readily available in China compared to the US.
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#196 CanuckinEdm

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:52 PM

should we ban knives too then? how come this isn't getting as much attention

The Associated Press
Published Friday, Dec. 14, 2012 6:18AM EST
BEIJING -- A knife-wielding man injured 22 children and one adult outside a primary school in central China as students were arriving for classes Friday, police said, the latest in a series of periodic rampage attacks at Chinese schools and kindergartens.
The attack in the Henan province village of Chengping happened shortly before 8 a.m., said a police officer from Guangshan county, where the village is located.
The attacker, 36-year-old villager Min Yingjun, is now in police custody, said the officer, who declined to give her name, as is customary among Chinese civil servants.
A Guangshan county hospital administrator said the man first attacked an elderly woman, then students, before being subdued by security guards who have been posted across China following a spate of school attacks in recent years. He said there were no deaths among the nine students admitted, although two badly injured children had been transferred to better-equipped hospitals outside


Theres way too many guns in America now for gun control to matter. You could drive to washington right now and buy a gun from a website without even id. In many states ftf or face to face gun sales between private parties have no control. But even without guns theres still baseball bats and knives and bombs so the problem is nutballs


because any news reported out of China is has a 50% chance of being fake.
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#197 Primus099

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:54 PM

You heard it here first folks, the world is so messed up it isn't even worth trying to fix.
And just FYI Guns are a heck of a lot more dangerous then a baseball bat or knives, and powerful explosives are illegal.


yet criminals still get their hands on them. amazing how that works isn't it? you think these guys care if something is illegal? last time i checked drugs are illegal as well and they make millions in the drug trade
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#198 Down by the River

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:54 PM

should we ban knives too then? how come this isn't getting as much attention

The Associated Press
Published Friday, Dec. 14, 2012 6:18AM EST
BEIJING -- A knife-wielding man injured 22 children and one adult outside a primary school in central China as students were arriving for classes Friday, police said, the latest in a series of periodic rampage attacks at Chinese schools and kindergartens.
The attack in the Henan province village of Chengping happened shortly before 8 a.m., said a police officer from Guangshan county, where the village is located.
The attacker, 36-year-old villager Min Yingjun, is now in police custody, said the officer, who declined to give her name, as is customary among Chinese civil servants.
A Guangshan county hospital administrator said the man first attacked an elderly woman, then students, before being subdued by security guards who have been posted across China following a spate of school attacks in recent years. He said there were no deaths among the nine students admitted, although two badly injured children had been transferred to better-equipped hospitals outside


Theres way too many guns in America now for gun control to matter. You could drive to washington right now and buy a gun from a website without even id. In many states ftf or face to face gun sales between private parties have no control. But even without guns theres still baseball bats and knives and bombs so the problem is nutballs


Take note of the fact that none of the 22 victims died. While gun control isn't going to reduce the number of people out there who are willing to do bad things, it can certainly help to reduce the degree of violence/harm that they inflict on others.

Just look at the research I previously quoted. How do you reconcile the fact that states with stricter gun laws have fewer gun-related homicides?

This is a fundamental and empirically-based argument against your assertion, you can't simply ignore it because it makes your argument more difficult to make.

Edited by Down by the River, 14 December 2012 - 03:57 PM.

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OMG we could've had McKeown!

I think Virtanen was a terrible pick given that he's out for 6 months which will hinder his development. You don't pick someone at #6 under that circumstance, along with the fact that he was given a 3/5 IQ (aka he's dumb). 

God dammit Benning. WHY VIRTANEN? Terrible move.

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#199 Primus099

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:59 PM

Take note of the fact that none of the 22 victims died. While gun control isn't going to reduce the number of people out there who are willing to do bad things, it can certainly help to reduce the degree of violence/harm that they inflict on others.

Just look at the research I previously quoted. How do you reconcile the fact that states with stricter gun laws have fewer gun-related homicides?

This is a fundamental and empirically-based argument against your assertion, you can't simply ignore it because it makes your argument more difficult to make.


Not everyone that gets shot dies either, those kids in China were very lucky you can easily kill someone with a knife just as you can with a gun.
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#200 Scottish⑦Canuck

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 04:02 PM

Not everyone that gets shot dies either, those kids in China were very lucky you can easily kill someone with a knife just as you can with a gun.


But when faced with either a knife or an assault rifle, which do you think is going to result in more tragic and damaging consequences? It's the gun every time.
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#201 Jägermeister

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 04:02 PM

yet criminals still get their hands on them. amazing how that works isn't it? you think these guys care if something is illegal? last time i checked drugs are illegal as well and they make millions in the drug trade


Yeah, they do, congratulations you made a completely irrelevant point.
Nobody ever said that people would never get their hands on a gun, but it would cause a significant blow to gun violence. They have a firearm death per capita rate 2x higher than almost all gun control. If they implemented gun control policies and actually put work into getting illegal weapons off the street, that rate would drop down to near our levels.

Edited by Jägermeister, 14 December 2012 - 04:03 PM.

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#202 Primus099

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 04:03 PM

But when faced with either a knife or an assault rifle, which do you think is going to result in more tragic and damaging consequences? It's the gun every time.


Most likely, but if you get shot in the head or stabbed in the head chances are you're going to die either way.
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#203 Shift-4

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 04:03 PM

Not everyone that gets shot dies either, those kids in China were very lucky you can easily kill someone with a knife just as you can with a gun.


:picard:

You bring a knife to my next gunfight then.
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#204 Down by the River

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 04:04 PM

Not everyone that gets shot dies either, those kids in China were very lucky you can easily kill someone with a knife just as you can with a gun.


Yeah, high powered assault rifle and a knife, sounds like a fair comparison.

Even if I accept your argument here, you've still not explained why states with gun-control laws have a lower homicide rate.
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OMG we could've had McKeown!

I think Virtanen was a terrible pick given that he's out for 6 months which will hinder his development. You don't pick someone at #6 under that circumstance, along with the fact that he was given a 3/5 IQ (aka he's dumb). 

God dammit Benning. WHY VIRTANEN? Terrible move.

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#205 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 04:06 PM

you can easily kill someone with a knife just as you can with a gun.


No, you can't.

Try taking a knife to a gun fight and see how long you last.

EDIT: What Shifty said

Edited by RUPERTKBD, 14 December 2012 - 04:07 PM.

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#206 Scottish⑦Canuck

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 04:06 PM

Most likely, but if you get shot in the head or stabbed in the head chances are you're going to die either way.


I have no idea how we arrived at this point, but oh well.

The fact is that a knife is a household item (a "necessity" for a lot of people) so completely banning them isn't possible. A gun is far more powerful, far more dangerous and should not be available to your average Joe. Banning firearms is completely different.
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#207 Aleksandr Pistoletov

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 04:06 PM

Gun violence in Canada and other countries with gun control laws < Gun violence in the US.
Firearm related death per capita rates are 2 times higher in the US than in Canada.
I wonder why that is? I bet it has something to do with the fact that you can buy a gun at superstores, or get a free one when you sign up for a bank account.
But you can go ahead and ignore all the logic and statistics if it makes you feel better.

I usually like your posts but what you just posted sounds like you watched Bowling For Columbine and formed your opinion solely on this.

This is pretty much the stupidest ant-gun control argument of all the stupid anti-gun control arguments.
But its hard to tell because they're all so stupid.

What makes it stupid?

Bearing arms are (for good reason) a constitutional US right.

Criminals don't follow laws.

Gun control only limits those who follow the law. At best it limits accidents from careless law abiding citizens -- this incident is no accident, gun control laws are irrelevant to this issue.

It's not a deterrent to people that would go to a school and kill others.

The real problem has nothing to do with guns, these people would kill others by any means.. the question is why America (US) has such a high incidence of events like these. It is far more to do with a mindset than anything. Americans immediately jump to a divisive issue like gun control when something like this happens, it's like people are programmed in that country to get sidetracked. When something like this happens you get to the bottom of why it happened.. overreacting and going to gun control, or finding some band or movie or game a person played to blame is not a solution.

To me the issue is why Americans find killing others is an okay solution to a problem, and/or what mental problems are behind such actions.

Edited by zaibatsu, 14 December 2012 - 04:11 PM.

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#208 Primus099

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 04:09 PM

I have no idea how we arrived at this point, but oh well.

The fact is that a knife is a household item (a "necessity" for a lot of people) so completely banning them isn't possible. A gun is far more powerful, far more dangerous and should not be available to your average Joe. Banning firearms is completely different.


Stricter gun laws will probably deter your average joe from getting one, but it's not going to stop criminals from getting them. Who your average joe could easily go buy from instead as face to face private gun sale isn't controlled
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#209 Scottish⑦Canuck

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 04:11 PM

Stricter gun laws will probably deter your average joe from getting one, but it's not going to stop criminals from getting them. Who your average joe could easily go buy from instead as face to face private gun sale isn't controlled


But as I posted, before these shootings occur the shooter is generally seen by others as "your average Joe". In a lot of cases these people don't have a criminal history.
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#210 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 04:11 PM

I usually like your posts but what you just posted sounds like you watched Bowling For Columbine and formed your opinion solely on this.


What makes it stupid?

Bearing arms are (for good reason) a constitutional US right.

Criminals don't follow laws.

Gun control only limits those who follow the law. At best it limits accidents from careless law abiding citizens -- this is no accident.

It's not a deterrent to people that would go to a school and kill others.

The real problem has nothing to do with guns, these people would kill others by any means.. the question is why America (US) has such a high incidence of events like these. It is far more to do with a mindset than anything. Americans immediately jump to a divisive issue like gun control when something like this happens, it's like people are programmed in that country to get sidetracked. When something like this happens you get to the bottom of why it happened.. overreacting and going to gun control, or finding some band or movie or game a person played to blame is not a solution.


You know Z, every time one of these mass shooting happens, you and Electro Rock come out with the same tired arguments, while lamenting how every time one of thjese incidents happens, there are renewed calls for gun control.

Doesn't the fact that we go through this same procedure every couple of months tell you that there is a real problem in the US and that the status quo is not working?

Most of these shooters were not "criminals" until they obtained a firearm and went on a shooting spree.
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