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Michigan passes bill allowing concealed weapons in schools, day care centers, stadiums, churches


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#301 Harbinger

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:19 PM

Think guns have little to do with mass murders? On the same day that the Sandy Hook mass murder happened. There was also an attack on a primary school in China. The main difference being the weapon used. In one there was a gun and in the other there was a knife. The one in which there was a gun killed 20 children and 6 adults. The one in which there was a knife, no one actually died. The fact that no one died is remarkable. What is important to see there is the lethality between the two.

Both the attackers were brazen, and both were said to have had mental illnesses. So what are the differences then. The major difference was the accessibility to guns. One was in China where guns are very difficult to get and the other was in America where guns are thought to be a god given right. In instances like these, where people are unbalanced or downright crazy. Accessibility is the major contributor of how many people will likely die.

Gun control isn't about stopping career criminals. Career criminals are always looking for opportunities for their criminality. Gun control is about stopping and lessening the opportunity for incidents that are out of the ordinary for people. Gun control is about stopping the 17 year old that just had his PS3 taken from him, It's about stopping the person who just found out his girlfriend/boyfriend was sleeping around on them. It's all about convenience.

Gun control doesn't mean there can't be any guns. It means that there needs to be a much stricter guideline for who can or can not have them and what guns they should be allowed to have. No one needs to have an assault rifle or a near assault rifle. No one needs a handgun for hunting. No one needs to see people with mental illness have access to rifles.

It's time for Canada to tighten its regulations on guns before someone goes into one of our schools and relives Concordia or god forbid Sandy Hook.
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#302 Primus099

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:21 PM


Cause it's already being talked about in 3 other threads, why do you think he locked yours
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#303 Jägermeister

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:22 PM

As I pointed out earlier, the African Americans and Latinos are not all here of their own volition ..


And many of the Latinos are not there of the US's volition.
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#304 Harbinger

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:25 PM

Cause it's already being talked about in 3 other threads, why do you think he locked yours



He locked it because he felt like doing it. Why not lock the other two since you are saying there is already three of them?
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#305 skolozsy2

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:26 PM

And many of the Latinos are not there of the US's volition.


<chuckles>
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#306 Strawberries

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:27 PM

Is that you Mr Heston? They are teachers not gunfighters, would it not be better procedure to try to prevent the looney toon from getting a gun in the first place?


It would be , but what really stops a complete pyscho from getting a gun? He will obtain one , one way or the other. That is the scary and sad part
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#307 hockeyville88

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:30 PM

He locked it because he felt like doing it. Why not lock the other two since you are saying there is already three of them?

SHE actually...

The first is a thread to talk about the Newtown shooting
The second is about gun control and concealed weapons. We allowed the second one because, ideally, the first should remain a thread only to honour the victims, not a place to get all political and bash each other's views. Didn't quite work out that way but that was the rationale behind allowing two threads.
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Sig credit: GoaltenderInterference. Thanks!

#308 Harbinger

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:38 PM

SHE actually...

The first is a thread to talk about the Newtown shooting
The second is about gun control and concealed weapons. We allowed the second one because, ideally, the first should remain a thread only to honour the victims, not a place to get all political and bash each other's views. Didn't quite work out that way but that was the rationale behind allowing two threads.


The second thread was actually about a law passed in Michigan. My thread is actually about promoting gun control and why. If you don't understand the difference that's ok.
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#309 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:53 PM

The second thread was actually about a law passed in Michigan. My thread is actually about promoting gun control and why. If you don't understand the difference that's ok.


I hate this attitude. Your thread while good was redundant. Just because you don't think so doesn't mean people don't understand.

On topic... Gun control is a part of the solution but not the entire solution. I agree whole heartedly that nobody needs military grade weapons but in a world with guns in it and human nature being what it is some serious looks need to be taken at their regulations.
Past that the mental health industry as a whole needs a shot of life which also means large shots of money. It's pretty sad that even in canada private centers do vastly better work than govt run agencies. The amount of kids I've seen get farmed through their teens and sent out at 19 with a pwd and a hug is amazing.

Edited by EmployeeoftheMonth, 18 December 2012 - 02:53 PM.

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#310 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:59 PM

Who else thinks the Grateful Dead are overrated?


I doubt you ever saw them live, so why don't you hush. Greatest live act of all time, and didn't need to make money through album sales, which would explain why their studio stuff was a bit overrated. A concert (and thanks to my uncle I saw the band WITH Jerry 6 times before he died) is an entirely different story.

Edited by Munchie Marauder, 18 December 2012 - 03:03 PM.

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Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.


#311 Harbinger

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:01 PM

I hate this attitude. Your thread while good was redundant. Just because you don't think so doesn't mean people don't understand.

On topic... Gun control is a part of the solution but not the entire solution. I agree whole heartedly that nobody needs military grade weapons but in a world with guns in it and human nature being what it is some serious looks need to be taken at their regulations.
Past that the mental health industry as a whole needs a shot of life which also means large shots of money. It's pretty sad that even in canada private centers do vastly better work than govt run agencies. The amount of kids I've seen get farmed through their teens and sent out at 19 with a pwd and a hug is amazing.


Of course there is attitude. Why would I look through a thread about a Michigan law when I'm making a thread about Canada and its own need for further Gun controls. I didn't even consider looking at the michigan law thread till after I had made my thread since the titles were about two completely different things. Should I have also read through the spiral Galaxy thread just to see if they also had gone off on a tangent that may have had some similarities?
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#312 Tearloch7

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:05 PM

And many of the Latinos are not there of the US's volition.


Ah yes I know but they do not factor into the Census and statistical basis of the comparison .. so moot point ..
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#313 Jägermeister

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:13 PM

Ah yes I know but they do not factor into the Census and statistical basis of the comparison .. so moot point ..


I know. I wasn't trying to make an argument or anything, just poking a little fun at the US.
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#314 Wetcoaster

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:20 PM

Of course there is attitude. Why would I look through a thread about a Michigan law when I'm making a thread about Canada and its own need for further Gun controls. I didn't even consider looking at the michigan law thread till after I had made my thread since the titles were about two completely different things. Should I have also read through the spiral Galaxy thread just to see if they also had gone off on a tangent that may have had some similarities?

There was also a recent thread about gun control in Canada.
http://forum.canucks...ns-on-firearms/
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#315 Tearloch7

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:28 PM

I know. I wasn't trying to make an argument or anything, just poking a little fun at the US.


:lol: .. I actually thought of that ironic conundrum our American cousins share and decided to not muddy the water .. how ironic that the Black and Latino communities are considered the main proponents of crime .. and yet they will soon control the ballot box, and when the war on drugs goes away there will be a couple of million more of them looking for work and benefits ..
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#316 Wetcoaster

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:29 PM

:lol: .. I actually thought of that ironic conundrum our American cousins share and decided to not muddy the water .. how ironic that the Black and Latino communities are considered the main proponents of crime .. and yet they will soon control the ballot box, and when the war on drugs goes away there will be a couple of million more of them looking for work and benefits ..

So the 47% becomes the 51%????
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#317 Electro Rock

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:31 PM

As per the 2006 census Canada is 20% visible minority. The large portions being in our major cities.
As of 2010 US is 28% visible minority. The large portion being of Latino heritage and living in California and Texas, and African American living around the Gulf Coast.


Latinos alone make up nearly 17% of the U.S. population now, not including illegals. Add in 12% black, 6% Asian and few more % "others" and people who most would consider "white" but that are significantly mixed (see Megan Fox or Angolina Jolie) you have a population that's only 60% white without significant mixture.

I also find it hard to believe that Canada is 20% visible minority unless you really stretch the definition, given that the largest single Canadian ethnic minority group, the Natives, are only like 4.5% of the population, and even Asians as a whole, who are the vast majority of Canada's immigrants, are at maybe 8 or 9% combined.
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#318 Tearloch7

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:48 PM

So the 47% becomes the 51%????


It does when you add in women who think with their heads .. :rolleyes:
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#319 Electro Rock

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:56 PM

As I pointed out earlier, the African Americans and Latinos are not all here of their own volition ..


Jimi Hendrix's cousin says that there aren't too many kidnapped slaves living in the U.S. in 2012.

I'll grant you that "Jim Crow" was quite appearant up until about 20 years ago, but even that's getting to be a while ago now.
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#320 Tearloch7

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:00 PM

Jimi Hendrix's cousin says that there aren't too many kidnapped slaves living in the U.S. in 2012.

I'll grant you that "Jim Crow" was quite appearant up until about 20 years ago, but even that's getting to be a while ago now.


Well since Jimi Hendrix cousin is not someone whose advice I seek or take on a regular basis I will ignore what he has to say .. maybe if Romney got in he could convince the Black community to self-deport? .. damn .. now we will never know .. :)
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#321 Electro Rock

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:43 PM

Think guns have little to do with mass murders? On the same day that the Sandy Hook mass murder happened. There was also an attack on a primary school in China. The main difference being the weapon used. In one there was a gun and in the other there was a knife. The one in which there was a gun killed 20 children and 6 adults. The one in which there was a knife, no one actually died. The fact that no one died is remarkable. What is important to see there is the lethality between the two.

Both the attackers were brazen, and both were said to have had mental illnesses. So what are the differences then. The major difference was the accessibility to guns. One was in China where guns are very difficult to get and the other was in America where guns are thought to be a god given right. In instances like these, where people are unbalanced or downright crazy. Accessibility is the major contributor of how many people will likely die.

Gun control isn't about stopping career criminals. Career criminals are always looking for opportunities for their criminality. Gun control is about stopping and lessening the opportunity for incidents that are out of the ordinary for people. Gun control is about stopping the 17 year old that just had his PS3 taken from him, It's about stopping the person who just found out his girlfriend/boyfriend was sleeping around on them. It's all about convenience.

Gun control doesn't mean there can't be any guns. It means that there needs to be a much stricter guideline for who can or can not have them and what guns they should be allowed to have. No one needs to have an assault rifle or a near assault rifle. No one needs a handgun for hunting. No one needs to see people with mental illness have access to rifles.

It's time for Canada to tighten its regulations on guns before someone goes into one of our schools and relives Concordia or god forbid Sandy Hook.


Well not all blades are created equal, if the attacker in China had used a more dedicated weapon of some kind instead of the butcher or utility knife he mostly likely used, his attack probably would have been a lot more lethal.


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#322 Harbinger

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:13 PM

Well not all blades are created equal, if the attacker in China had used a more dedicated weapon of some kind instead of the butcher or utility knife he mostly likely used, his attack probably would have been a lot more lethal.


That is actually the point. They are weapons of convenience. Weapons of all types are not created equally. Make guns more inconvenient and the weapons of choice become less lethal by simple reduction of the amount of accessible tools. An assault rifle by design was built to kill humans. What need is there for civilians to have assault weapons other than to kill other humans?


Here are the kinds of things you can look forward to when weapons are so readily available.

Utah boy brings gun to school, cites Newtown fears



SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — A Utah sixth-grader caught with a gun at school told administrators he brought the weapon to defend himself in case of an attack similar to the mass school shooting last week in Connecticut, school officials said Tuesday.
The 11-year-old was being held in juvenile detention on suspicion of possessing a dangerous weapon and aggravated assault after other students at the suburban Salt Lake City elementary school told police he threatened them with the handgun.
Teachers and administrators at West Kearns Elementary School confronted the boy in class Monday after students reported the weapon, said Granite School District spokesman Ben Horsley. The boy had an unloaded gun and ammunition in his backpack, Horsley said.
The boy waved the gun at others during a morning recess, school officials said. Other students, however, didn't report the threat until classes were nearly finished for the day. There was no immediate explanation for the delay, authorities said.
Authorities have not released the child's name. The .22-caliber handgun had been left at the boy's home by a relative, Horsley said.
The child made statements to administrators and mentioned the shooting rampage last week in Newtown, Conn., that left 20 students dead, authorities said.
The boy told others his parents sent him to school with the gun for protection, which his parents adamantly deny, Horsley said.
"The family is rocked by this. They have been very forthcoming," Horsley said.
The boy was expected to be charged in juvenile court Tuesday, Horsley said.
"This kid made a mistake, and he knows it," Horsley said. "He feels bad about it, and his parents are cooperating with the investigation. He will not be coming back to this school."
No one was injured.

Edited by Harbinger, 18 December 2012 - 05:15 PM.

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#323 Electro Rock

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:06 PM

That is actually the point. They are weapons of convenience. Weapons of all types are not created equally. Make guns more inconvenient and the weapons of choice become less lethal by simple reduction of the amount of accessible tools. An assault rifle by design was built to kill humans. What need is there for civilians to have assault weapons other than to kill other humans?


The thing is, you're talking about trying to restrict something that's not only prolific as heck, but easy to smuggle and as easy to manufacture as you'd expect simple old technology to be.

You're just not going to reduce availability to any meaningful degree in the U.S. without unrealistically drastic mrasures

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#324 Wetcoaster

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:15 PM

Republican Gov. Rick Snyder vetoed a bill that would have allowed concealed weapons to be carried in churches, schools and daycares.
http://www.usatoday....vetoed/1778081/
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#325 Harbinger

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:31 PM

The thing is, you're talking about trying to restrict something that's not only prolific as heck, but easy to smuggle and as easy to manufacture as you'd expect simple old technology to be.

You're just not going to reduce availability to any meaningful degree in the U.S. without unrealistically drastic mrasures


You have to start somewhere. Just saying it would be too difficult and then leaving the status quo is a cop out. Something has to be done. It also needs to be done here north of the border as well. I'm not advocating a complete ban on guns. I understand people who use Guns for hunting and for sport at the range. I do see a need for destroying all civilian owned assault rifles and semi automatic rifles as well as almost all hand guns. They serve no practical use except to kill people.
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#326 dudeone

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:46 PM

Mike Huckabee: Newtown Shooting No Surprise, We've 'Systematically Removed God' From Schools



The Huffington Post | By Nick Wing & Paige Lavender



Posted: 12/14/2012 6:31 pm EST | Updated: 12/15/2012 9:29 am EST



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/14/mike-huckabee-school-shooting_n_2303792.html


Former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee ® weighed in on the massacre at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn. on Friday, saying the crime was no surprise because we have "systematically removed God" from public schools.



"We ask why there is violence in our schools, but we have systematically removed God from our schools," Huckabee saidon Fox News. "Should we be so surprised that schools would become a place of carnage?"
This line of reasoning isn't new for Huckabee.



Speaking about a mass shooting in Aurora, Colo. over the summer, the former GOP presidential candidate claimed that such violent episodes were a function of a nation suffering from the removal of religion from the public sphere.



"We don't have a crime problem, a gun problem or even a violence problem. What we have is a sin problem," Huckabeesaid on Fox News. "And since we've ordered God out of our schools, and communities, the military and public conversations, you know we really shouldn't act so surprised ... when all hell breaks loose."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Huckabee on parole of suspect in Seattle cop killings



November 30, 2009 | 9:57 am



http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/11/mike-huckabee-on-parole-of-alleged-cop-killer-in-seattle.html


As The Times and others have reported, the man police are seeking in the shooting deaths of four Seattle officers this weekend had a 95-year prison sentence in Arkansas commuted by then-Gov. Mike Huckabee following the man’s parole in 2000.



Maurice Clemmons, the suspect, continued to evade police today. He has been described as having a long and violent criminal history in Arkansas. (Follow latimes.com for the latest developments in the hunt for the gunman.)



In a statement Sunday, Huckabee blamed Clemmons’ situation on "a series of failures in the criminal justice system in both Arkansas and Washington state." In the statement Huckabee does not mention his role in handling Clemmons’ case. Here is the former governor’s statement, as prepared for his website:



The senseless and savage execution of police officers in Washington State has saddened the nation, and early reports indicate that a person of interest is a repeat offender who once lived in Arkansas and was wanted on outstanding warrants here and Washington State. The murder of any individual is profound tragedy, but the murder of a police officer is the worst of all murders in that it is an assault on every citizen and the laws we live within.


Should he be found to be responsible for this horrible tragedy, it will be the result of a series of failures in the criminal justice system in both Arkansas and Washington State. He was recommended for and received a commutation...


... of his original sentence from 1990, making him parole eligible and was paroled by the parole board once they determined he met the conditions at that time. He was arrested later for parole violation and taken back to prison to serve his full term, but prosecutors dropped the charges that would have held him. It appears that he has continued to have a string of criminal and psychotic behavior but was not kept incarcerated by either state. This is a horrible and tragic event and if found and convicted the offender should be held accountable to the fullest extent of the law. Our thoughts and prayers are and should be with the families of those honorable, brave, and heroic police officers.


-- Steve Padilla
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#327 dudeone

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:47 PM

Cerberus to sell stake in Bushmaster gun maker

Associated Press – 11 hrs ago

http://news.yahoo.co...6--finance.html

NEW YORK (AP) — Cerberus is planning to sell its stake in Freedom Group, maker of the Bushmaster rifle, following the school shootings in Newtown, Conn.

The private equity firm said that the shootings were a watershed event in the national debate on gun control. While it said that it is not its role to take positions or attempt to shape or influence the gun control debate, Cerberus said it can take action by selling its stake in Freedom Group.

"We believe that this decision allows us to meet our obligations to the investors whose interests we are entrusted to protect without being drawn into the national debate that is more properly pursued by those with the formal charter and public responsibility to do so," the company said in a statement.

On Friday, 26 people were killed at Sandy Hook Elementary School in one of the worst mass shootings in U.S history. The gunman, Adam Lanza, used a .223-caliber Bushmaster rifle during the shootings.

Cerberus said Tuesday that it was deeply saddened by Friday's events. The New York firm said that it will hire a financial adviser to help with the process of selling its Freedom Group interests.

Cerberus affiliates made a financial investment in Freedom Group in 2006. The firm said that Freedom Group does not sell weapons or ammunition directly to consumers, and that it does not believe that "Freedom Group or any single company or individual can prevent senseless violence or the illegal use or procurement of firearms and ammunition."

Cerberus Capital Management makes investments on behalf of clients that include the pension plans of firemen, teachers, policemen, and other municipal workers and unions, endowments and other institutions and individuals.

Money made from the Freedom Group stake sale will be returned to its investors, Cerberus said.

Edited by dudeone, 18 December 2012 - 06:48 PM.

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#328 Dogbyte

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:47 PM

I can't believe the audacity of some people. More guns to protect people from guns. I'm tempted to say only in America could people possibly be this stupid. It's alarming that obviously some Canadians here are completely nuts and have no common sense whatsoever.

That to me is about as effective as solving alcoholic hangovers by just drinking more every day. Cause you can't be hungover when you're drunk right, just like the whole USA would have no deaths if everyone just owned a gun. I mean the logistics of a 7 year owning a gun, or a little old lady that couldn't hit the side of a barn, or a pastor in every church having a gun. The irony of that in itself is absolutely mind blowing. A pastor is supposed to be a representative of a peaceful GOD, and yet he's too afraid to let GOD protect him. Do people really want to goto a holiday sermon when everyone in the seats has a gun and everyone is afraid of a shootout. Shameful!

Such a sad state of affairs.

Edited by Dogbyte, 18 December 2012 - 08:49 PM.

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"What players need is the right kind of strength and power. That includes learning to understand that leverage and positioning can be just as important as raw strength when it comes to winning battles in the game. It's more about timing and athleticism --and avoiding injury--than it is about how much you can bench press. I don't know how many times I've seen a guy with the physique of a defensive end line up a guy half his size, only to bounce off when he connects. Sure, there is room in the game for big guys who can throw their weight around. But for the most part, players are smart enough to see them coming--and strong enough to protect the puck when they arrive. There are trainers out there who know how to devlop hockey-specific strength--though a trainer can help only if a player follows the program. All too often, I've seen players sign up with the best trainer, but not show up for their workouts and never to reap the benefits."

 

Bobby Orr - ORR MY STORY Viking 2013


#329 Electro Rock

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:53 PM

You have to start somewhere. Just saying it would be too difficult and then leaving the status quo is a cop out. Something has to be done. It also needs to be done here north of the border as well. I'm not advocating a complete ban on guns. I understand people who use Guns for hunting and for sport at the range. I do see a need for destroying all civilian owned assault rifles and semi automatic rifles as well as almost all hand guns. They serve no practical use except to kill people.


If killing people, at times, or at least deterring them, didn't serve a practical purpose then our rulers wouldn't have any guns.

They should lead by example, what are they afraid of?



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"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened."

Norman Thomas

#330 Jägermeister

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:53 PM

Mike Huckabee: Newtown Shooting No Surprise, We've 'Systematically Removed God' From Schools



You'd think that even the Southern US wouldn't make a man like this governor.

Edited by Jägermeister, 18 December 2012 - 06:54 PM.

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