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#1 shawn antoski

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:07 PM

Vancouver
Babchuk(must waive no trade clause)
Calgary
Raymond + 4th round pick


Vancouver
Anthony Stewart + Brett&Brody Sutter
Carolina
Ballard



My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m)------Henrik Sedin ($6.100m-------- Alexandre Burrows ($2.000m)
David Booth ($4.250m)------Ryan Kesler ($5.000m)-------- Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Chris Higgins ($1.900m)-----Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m)-----Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Anthony Stewart ($0.900m--Manny Malhotra ($2.500m)----Dale Weise ($0.615m)

Brett Sutter ($0.550m) / Brody Sutter ($0.560m) /

DEFENSEMEN
Alexander Edler ($3.250m) / Jason Garrison ($4.600m)
Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m) / Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m)
Anton Babchuk ($2.500m) / Chris Tanev ($0.900m)

Andrew Alberts ($1.225m) /

GOALTENDERS
Roberto Luongo ($5.333m)
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,603,333; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $5,596,667

Edited by shawn antoski, 15 December 2012 - 03:08 PM.

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#2 Phil_314

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:25 PM

I'd do these moves, as long as Stewart's willing train Kassian-style and become physically fit so he can make the most of his physical gifts. Hopefully down the line he could become a power forward like his brother.
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#3 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:31 PM

I prefer Ballard over Babchuk, not bad but it is more of a laterial move, nothing that improves us much IMO.
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#4 shawn antoski

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:37 PM

I prefer Ballard over Babchuk, not bad but it is more of a laterial move, nothing that improves us much IMO.


it improves the salary cap situation
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#5 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:14 PM

it improves the salary cap situation


It's not really an issue at the moment.
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#6 shawn antoski

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:23 PM

It's not really an issue at the moment.

:picard: the salary cap is by far the most important issue in hockey at the moment,

salaries = lockout

Edited by shawn antoski, 15 December 2012 - 04:26 PM.

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#7 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:14 PM

:picard: the salary cap is by far the most important issue in hockey at the moment,

salaries = lockout


:picard: Not an issue for us.

(Clearly you took my comment the wrong way)
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#8 shawn antoski

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:49 PM

:picard: Not an issue for us.

(Clearly you took my comment the wrong way)


how is the salary cap not an issue for us
its going to be a real big huge issue for the canucks compared to most nhl teams because we have to shed so much salary to become cap compliant
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#9 Pears

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:56 PM

how is the salary cap not an issue for us
its going to be a real big huge issue for the canucks compared to most nhl teams because we have to shed so much salary to become cap compliant

How do we have to become cap compliant when we have $2.4 million of cap space?
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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#10 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:25 PM

how is the salary cap not an issue for us
its going to be a real big huge issue for the canucks compared to most nhl teams because we have to shed so much salary to become cap compliant


As Mullet said we currently have cap space, no one knows what the CBA will hold right now, it probably won't go down a ton right away, and if we want cap space to make a big move we can shed Salary than, instead of making our team worse now for no reason.
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#11 shawn antoski

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:26 PM

How do we have to become cap compliant when we have $2.4 million of cap space?

As Mullet said we currently have cap space, no one knows what the CBA will hold right now, it probably won't go down a ton right away, and if we want cap space to make a big move we can shed Salary than, instead of making our team worse now for no reason.


as of today the canucks have 2.4 million next year and beyond we all know its going to be less. Gillis has to figure out something now so he doesnt have to blow up this team in a couple of years

ballards contract is a bad cap hit, for the next 3 years . Gillis needs to get rid of his contract now. It doesn't matter what the cap is, hes got a bad contract. The main reason to do these trades is to make the team better in the long run by spending every dollar effiecently.
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#12 JimLahey

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:37 PM

as of today the canucks have 2.4 million next year and beyond we all know its going to be less. Gillis has to figure out something now so he doesnt have to blow up this team in a couple of years

ballards contract is a bad cap hit, for the next 3 years . Gillis needs to get rid of his contract now. It doesn't matter what the cap is, hes got a bad contract. The main reason to do these trades is to make the team better in the long run by spending every dollar effiecently.


So you're proposing Gillis shed cap because of a new CBA, which has not been signed?
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#13 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:40 PM

as of today the canucks have 2.4 million next year and beyond we all know its going to be less. Gillis has to figure out something now so he doesnt have to blow up this team in a couple of years

ballards contract is a bad cap hit, for the next 3 years . Gillis needs to get rid of his contract now. It doesn't matter what the cap is, hes got a bad contract. The main reason to do these trades is to make the team better in the long run by spending every dollar effiecently.


Okay simple.

- Raymond is on a 1 year deal, either trade him or else if he doesn't preform let him go at the end of the year. There's 2.5+ gone.
- Manny is a UFA at the end of the season, sign him for less, 1 Mill or less. There's 1.5+ Gone.
- Alberts is a UFA, he's making 1.225, if he is going to stay on our team he is going to most likely take a paycut, to around 800k would be my guess. There's 400k+ gone.
- Booth is a UFA in two years, Gillis will get him to take less to stay most likely, my guess it around 3-3.5 Million. There's 1-1.5 Million gone.
- Luongo will most likely be traded, and there will probably be alot less cap space coming back our way, let's say Bozak and Kadri. There's about 3-4+ Million gone.

Add it up the short term moves (Everything but Booth) and we will have saved 7.4 - 8.4+.Then once you add in Booth it goes up another 1 - 1.5


Plus players will have to take discounts on any new contracts anyways due to the players share and cap going down. I think we will be alright.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 15 December 2012 - 07:40 PM.

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#14 shawn antoski

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 08:15 PM

Okay simple.

- Raymond is on a 1 year deal, either trade him or else if he doesn't preform let him go at the end of the year. There's 2.5+ gone.
- Manny is a UFA at the end of the season, sign him for less, 1 Mill or less. There's 1.5+ Gone.
- Alberts is a UFA, he's making 1.225, if he is going to stay on our team he is going to most likely take a paycut, to around 800k would be my guess. There's 400k+ gone.
- Booth is a UFA in two years, Gillis will get him to take less to stay most likely, my guess it around 3-3.5 Million. There's 1-1.5 Million gone.
- Luongo will most likely be traded, and there will probably be alot less cap space coming back our way, let's say Bozak and Kadri. There's about 3-4+ Million gone.

Add it up the short term moves (Everything but Booth) and we will have saved 7.4 - 8.4+.Then once you add in Booth it goes up another 1 - 1.5


Plus players will have to take discounts on any new contracts anyways due to the players share and cap going down. I think we will be alright.


YEA buddy your right, it so simple. you have it all figured out
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#15 SterlingArcher

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 08:41 PM

to canucks: baertchi, gaudreau, sieloff

to flames: jensen
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#16 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:19 PM

YEA buddy your right, it so simple. you have it all figured out


Just trying to show there are other ways to fix the future problem without hurting our chances now when he don't need to.
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#17 CHodgson9

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:42 AM

to canucks: baertchi, gaudreau, sieloff

to flames: jensen


No. Jensen is going to be a stud.
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#18 shawn antoski

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:46 AM

Just trying to show there are other ways to fix the future problem without hurting our chances now when he don't need to.

YeS U ARE SO RIGHT , buddy
raymond and ballard are very important to the canucks , if we trade them we will have no chance at the cup.

we dont need guys like babchuk that are 6 foot five 5 or heavy weights like Stewart.

the canucks can never trade raymond and ballard
raymond and ballard for $4.675>>>>>>>>4 players at 3.6 million
man you should try to get a job with canucks management , this stuff is so simple for you

Edited by shawn antoski, 17 December 2012 - 12:17 PM.

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#19 Jägermeister

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 12:25 PM

I'd go for it.
In the end Babchuck and Ballard are pretty equal, but I'd rather have Stewart than Raymond.
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#20 Baercheese

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 12:35 PM

No. Jensen is going to be a stud.

I laughed, thanks.
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Johnny Gaudreau>any Casucks

Edler, Markstrom, Hansen, 2nd round pick 2014 to Islanders for Ryan Strome, 5th overall pick 2014

This is fairly even as well.

 


#21 Jägermeister

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 04:29 PM

I laughed, thanks.


I also laughed.
Baertschi > Jensen.
Not to mention Gaudreau has the potential to be a top 6 foraward, as long as he can overcome his massive size disadvantage in the NHL.
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#22 Zoolander

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 04:35 PM

No. Jensen is going to be a stud.


So is Baertschi...

Probably even more so than Jensen. But I doubt we do a trade within our division anyways.
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#23 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 04:38 PM

YeS U ARE SO RIGHT , buddy
raymond and ballard are very important to the canucks , if we trade them we will have no chance at the cup.

we dont need guys like babchuk that are 6 foot five 5 or heavy weights like Stewart.

the canucks can never trade raymond and ballard
raymond and ballard for $4.675>>>>>>>>4 players at 3.6 million
man you should try to get a job with canucks management , this stuff is so simple for you


:lol: Your not really seeing the entire picture are you?

Ballard > Babchuk
Raymond > Stewart

Adding 2 minor leaguers and saving 1 Million in cap space we won't use doesn't compensate for that.

We have guys who can fight (Weise, Volpatti, Pinnizzotto, Lappy) Though I am a Raymond hater I would rather have that offensive depth than more 4th liners.

And if size is the biggest factor then Alberts should be on the 1st pair with Hamhuis no? Babchuck is a good 3rd pair defensemen but not better than Ballard, he has size and a big shot but other than that what is so special? He's not that mobile. Those are the only things he is better than Ballard at, Ballard is better everywhere else. Then when you consider the chemistry he has with Tanev and how much better it makes both of them I would much rather have Ballard.

And I don't see Babchuck or Stewart as the missing pieces to a championship either buddy.
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#24 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 05:27 PM

So is Baertschi...

Probably even more so than Jensen. But I doubt we do a trade within our division anyways.


Calgary is in love with this kid, he's going nowhere. And Jensen will be a very good sniper for us. That trade won't happen because both teams would see no reason to make that move.
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#25 Jägermeister

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 06:00 PM

Calgary is in love with this kid, he's going nowhere. And Jensen will be a very good sniper for us. That trade won't happen because both teams would see no reason to make that move.


Theres a big reason why would would make that move. Baertschi is better then Jensen and Gaudreau is extremely intriguing as well. Calgary would laugh if we ever proposed that trade to them, but if by some miracle they proposed it to us, I would pray we would take it.
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#26 shawn antoski

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:51 AM

:lol: Your not really seeing the entire picture are you?

Ballard > Babchuk
Raymond > Stewart

Adding 2 minor leaguers prospects and saving 1 Million (actually its a 2.million dollar saving,,,sutter bros are on a 2 way) in cap space we won't use doesn't compensate for that.
million dollar saving,,,

We have guys who can fight (Weise, Volpatti, Pinnizzotto, Lappy) Though I am a Raymond hater I would rather have that offensive depth than more 4th liners.

And if size is the biggest factor then Alberts should be on the 1st pair with Hamhuis no? Babchuck is a good 3rd pair defensemen but not better than Ballard, he has size and a big shot but other than that what is so special? He's not that mobile. Those are the only things he is better than Ballard at, Ballard is better everywhere else. Then when you consider the chemistry he has with Tanev and how much better it makes both of them I would much rather have Ballard.

And I don't see Babchuck or Stewart as the missing pieces to a championship either buddy.


once again you are right, u should be a GM... it so simple for you .. ballard is waaaaaay better then babchuk
ballard has an amazing 36 goals in 506 nhl games and Babsuck only has a messily 36 goals in 282 nhl games ... ur right ballards better,
again ur right.... ballards 4.2 million dollar contract is a bargain, compared to babsucks 2.5 mill..... ,ballards career plus/minus of -1.is way better then Babsuks career average of +15

Edited by shawn antoski, 18 December 2012 - 02:54 AM.

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#27 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:45 PM

once again you are right, u should be a GM... it so simple for you .. ballard is waaaaaay better then babchuk
ballard has an amazing 36 goals in 506 nhl games and Babsuck only has a messily 36 goals in 282 nhl games ... ur right ballards better,
again ur right.... ballards 4.2 million dollar contract is a bargain, compared to babsucks 2.5 mill..... ,ballards career plus/minus of -1.is way better then Babsuks career average of +15


Lol goals, great stat to base who is better.

Babchuck gets PP time and lots of it, most times on the 1st unit. Ballard gets 0 PP time, like I said Babchuck has a big shot and scores with it alot. This stat isn't impressive once you look at the circumstances. And in his years with the Flames, 6 of his 10 Goals have come on the PP, now think about how little powerplay time you get in a game and how much time you are 5 on 5. Again the stats isn't as impressive as you think.

Then +/-. I'm think that +/- is a useful stat, when circumstances are fair, in this case I don't think they are at all. Again take other factors into consideration and you will see the stat nearly as impressive as you think. Ballard has played on worse teams, and has been used in a primary defensive role on those terrible teams. whereas Babchuck has been on better teams and has been used in more offensive roles.

In Ballard's career with our club he is a +10, and that is on the 3rd pair. A much more fair comparison.

So aside from his shooting what is Babchuck actually better at? Is Babchuck a better shot blocker? No. Is Babchuck a better skater? No. Who fights more? Ballard. He is a better 5 on 5? Ballard has only had 7 PP goals in his career, so the other 29 have come 5 on 5. Whereas 19 of Babchucks 36 have come on the PP, which leaves 17 that came 5 on 5. So even looking at goals (Which was your bread and butter in your last post) Ballard is even better in that area too, so 5 on 5, I would say Ballard.

So if Ballard is better in every area, except having a big shot. Then you look at the huge intangable (Him and Tanev) Who would you rather have? The choice seems clear to me.



As for Brett and Brody Sutter. Brett is 25, not really a prospect anymore and is an energy depth forward at the very best. Brody is 21, was a 7th Round pick and wasn't even close to PPG in Junior.

Not exactly 2 Blue Chippers.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 18 December 2012 - 05:47 PM.

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#28 Gollumpus

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 07:57 PM

I prefer Ballard over Babchuk, not bad but it is more of a laterial move, nothing that improves us much IMO.


Further to your point, it potentially makes things worse.

These deals, as outlined, would put the Canucks up to 50 contracts, no? Assuming that the Luongo deal goes through, there could be two to three contracts (or more) coming back from the other team (assuming Luoongo is the only guy leaving town).

So who gets dumped/waived/bought out from these guys, the guys from the Luongo deal, or are currently on the roster?

regards,
G.
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#29 shawn antoski

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:48 AM

Lol goals, great stat to base who is better.

Babchuck gets PP time and lots of it, most times on the 1st unit. Ballard gets 0 PP time, like I said Babchuck has a big shot and scores with it alot. This stat isn't impressive once you look at the circumstances. And in his years with the Flames, 6 of his 10 Goals have come on the PP, now think about how little powerplay time you get in a game and how much time you are 5 on 5. Again the stats isn't as impressive as you think.

Then +/-. I'm think that +/- is a useful stat, when circumstances are fair, in this case I don't think they are at all. Again take other factors into consideration and you will see the stat nearly as impressive as you think. Ballard has played on worse teams, and has been used in a primary defensive role on those terrible teams. whereas Babchuck has been on better teams and has been used in more offensive roles.

In Ballard's career with our club he is a +10, and that is on the 3rd pair. A much more fair comparison.

So aside from his shooting what is Babchuck actually better at? Is Babchuck a better shot blocker? No. Is Babchuck a better skater? No. Who fights more? Ballard. He is a better 5 on 5? Ballard has only had 7 PP goals in his career, so the other 29 have come 5 on 5. Whereas 19 of Babchucks 36 have come on the PP, which leaves 17 that came 5 on 5. So even looking at goals (Which was your bread and butter in your last post) Ballard is even better in that area too, so 5 on 5, I would say Ballard.

So if Ballard is better in every area, except having a big shot. Then you look at the huge intangable (Him and Tanev) Who would you rather have? The choice seems clear to me.



As for Brett and Brody Sutter. Brett is 25, not really a prospect anymore and is an energy depth forward at the very best. Brody is 21, was a 7th Round pick and wasn't even close to PPG in Junior.

Not exactly 2 Blue Chippers.


:) you forgot to compare their contracts
ballard is a rip off
babchuk is a decent deal

each point Ballard scored cost the canucks $600 000 last season

You are the only person in vancouver that will miss ballard when he's gone. he is Gillis's biggest mistake as GM

Edited by shawn antoski, 19 December 2012 - 11:00 AM.

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#30 shawn antoski

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:54 AM

Further to your point, it potentially makes things worse.

These deals, as outlined, would put the Canucks up to 50 contracts, no? Assuming that the Luongo deal goes through, there could be two to three contracts (or more) coming back from the other team (assuming Luoongo is the only guy leaving town).

So who gets dumped/waived/bought out from these guys, the guys from the Luongo deal, or are currently on the roster?

regards,
G.


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