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Canucks making critical mistakes in hindsight?


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#1 Lui's Knob

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:08 PM

<p>Just started to think back now on some critical organizational decisions made the past few years and thinking whether decisions made/not made in the new regime are coming back to bite us?

1) Schultz - tearing up the AHL, and while there was a push, decides on the Oilers; now knowing Edler/Garrison have injury issues and K-Conn is having an average year....did not getting him and being with another conference team going to cost us?
2) Luongo and his contract - at first everyone loved his contract and now with the murky new CBA, he may never be offloaded or if he does get traded, is dealt for less than he could of been...was his massive contract going to hamper the team's needs?
3)Hodgson - no need to go into this one; but with Kesler battling 'major injuries' and rumors he's still a ways away/may never regain his former game (wrist/shoulder injuries) plus add the fact we traded him for another 'question mark' - did it not make sense to either get back a centermen or keep Hodgson as C depth that appears needed now?
4)Drafting Pat McNally - was our only high pick that year (no 1st rounder) and now he's developmentally in limbo (Harvard school issues)
5) Sami Pahlsson = waste of a pickup (given away high picks) and then moved to the SEL
6) Corrado = plays well but then gets surprising cut; Gaunce injured and can't even try out for junior tournie = both a step back for development?
7) Lockout = this isn't the teams' fault, but every time there's a decision for the league to do a lockout, the Canucks suffer significantly on the ice(see 94, 04 and TBD for 2012?)

I can only think of one decisions in hindsight which turned out well = acquiring Higgins/Lapierre/Torres who were instrumental in the last cup finals run....There could be more to add to this list that I'm missing, but does it seem lately decisions are not favoring the organization?

Edited by Here's Johnny, 18 December 2012 - 02:14 PM.

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#2 Strawberries

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:18 PM

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:picard:
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#3 Jägermeister

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:19 PM

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1) Not really a mistake, we just lost the sweepstakes. Edmonton was able to promise him more than we could.

2) Yeah, maybe not the best decision, but only in hindsight. It seemed right at the time.

3) Way to early to make that assumption. That will only be determined in the future.

4) He was a 4th round pick who actually has some decent potential. He was a good pick.

5) Ellington and 2 4th round picks. Hardly a price to pay, even if he did only stick around until the end of the year. One could say picking Ellington in the first place was a mistake though.

6) Corrado was a steal of a 5th round pick. Gaunce's injury can in no way be considered a mistake by the Canucks. He was a good pick.

7) Like you said, not really a Canuck decision to have a lockout.

In summary, theres been some bad luck, but I wouldn't attribute most of them to us making a mistake.

Edited by Jägermeister, 18 December 2012 - 02:20 PM.

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#4 JensenFan2011

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:24 PM

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lol you are saying a 5th round pick is taking a step back after being a shocking cut for the world juniors? dude corrado did an amazing feat just reaching the potential of making the try outs for team canada... some people geez
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#5 Phil_314

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:26 PM

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Frankly, how are any of these (marginally the 5th, 2nd and maybe the 3rd point, the rest :picard:) be used to condemn the team? Schultz didn't WANT to sign here, nothing the team did for #4, 6 or 7. I'm done answering.
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#6 Shift-4

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:29 PM

You forgot kopitarz :rolleyes:
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#7 Pears

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:33 PM

Since when are two 4th's considered 'high picks'? Pahlsson was ok while he but still that price was next to nothing.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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#8 hockeyville88

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:36 PM

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A few years ago I really liked the direction we were headed in. The goal was clear - we had an all star goalie who needed some support around him, so that what we went out and got. We got Ehrhoff, Hamhuis, Ballard, Malhotra, etc all in an attempt to play a "D first" mentality. In addition, our stars were starting to shine up front so goal scoring wasn't a concern.

Now all of a sudden we have a changing of the guard in net, our top scorers have been shut down in critical playoff games for the past two seasons, and we have no real notable players coming up from the farm. We traded away our prized prospect, and we still get run and beaten up physically by all the other teams.

Our biggest problem is that our core is not getting any younger and we don't have any up and coming players who can take over the role of "core players" in a few seasons.

It remains to be seen how we stack up once hockey gets going again, but I can't help but feel that we missed our window of opportunity and that the window won't come again till a whole rebuild takes place again.
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#9 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:46 PM

<p>Just started to think back now on some critical organizational decisions made the past few years and thinking whether decisions made/not made in the new regime are coming back to bite us?

1) Schultz - tearing up the AHL, and while there was a push, decides on the Oilers; now knowing Edler/Garrison have injury issues and K-Conn is having an average year....did not getting him and being with another conference team going to cost us?
2) Luongo and his contract - at first everyone loved his contract and now with the murky new CBA, he may never be offloaded or if he does get traded, is dealt for less than he could of been...was his massive contract going to hamper the team's needs?
3)Hodgson - no need to go into this one; but with Kesler battling 'major injuries' and rumors he's still a ways away/may never regain his former game (wrist/shoulder injuries) plus add the fact we traded him for another 'question mark' - did it not make sense to either get back a centermen or keep Hodgson as C depth that appears needed now?
4)Drafting Pat McNally - was our only high pick that year (no 1st rounder) and now he's developmentally in limbo (Harvard school issues)
5) Sami Pahlsson = waste of a pickup (given away high picks) and then moved to the SEL
6) Corrado = plays well but then gets surprising cut; Gaunce injured and can't even try out for junior tournie = both a step back for development?
7) Lockout = this isn't the teams' fault, but every time there's a decision for the league to do a lockout, the Canucks suffer significantly on the ice(see 94, 04 and TBD for 2012?)

I can only think of one decisions in hindsight which turned out well = acquiring Higgins/Lapierre/Torres who were instrumental in the last cup finals run....There could be more to add to this list that I'm missing, but does it seem lately decisions are not favoring the organization?


Can people please stop labeling this as a mistake, because it wasn't.
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#10 Dogbyte

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:47 PM

Not one of these things is an issue. :picard:
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#11 King of the ES

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:48 PM

<p>Just started to think back now on some critical organizational decisions made the past few years and thinking whether decisions made/not made in the new regime are coming back to bite us?

1) Schultz - tearing up the AHL, and while there was a push, decides on the Oilers; now knowing Edler/Garrison have injury issues and K-Conn is having an average year....did not getting him and being with another conference team going to cost us?
2) Luongo and his contract - at first everyone loved his contract and now with the murky new CBA, he may never be offloaded or if he does get traded, is dealt for less than he could of been...was his massive contract going to hamper the team's needs?
3)Hodgson - no need to go into this one; but with Kesler battling 'major injuries' and rumors he's still a ways away/may never regain his former game (wrist/shoulder injuries) plus add the fact we traded him for another 'question mark' - did it not make sense to either get back a centermen or keep Hodgson as C depth that appears needed now?
4)Drafting Pat McNally - was our only high pick that year (no 1st rounder) and now he's developmentally in limbo (Harvard school issues)
5) Sami Pahlsson = waste of a pickup (given away high picks) and then moved to the SEL
6) Corrado = plays well but then gets surprising cut; Gaunce injured and can't even try out for junior tournie = both a step back for development?
7) Lockout = this isn't the teams' fault, but every time there's a decision for the league to do a lockout, the Canucks suffer significantly on the ice(see 94, 04 and TBD for 2012?)

I can only think of one decisions in hindsight which turned out well = acquiring Higgins/Lapierre/Torres who were instrumental in the last cup finals run....There could be more to add to this list that I'm missing, but does it seem lately decisions are not favoring the organization?


Good post. I agree with most. People around this forum do not, though, so be prepared to be criticized heavily.

1 - mistake was in not pushing hard enough. Edmonton involved Gretzky, Messier, Coffey, Hall, RNH. Gillis involved AV. They clearly wanted him more, I don't care what anybody says about "the decision was already made".

2 - yes, big mistake was in not trading Schneider earlier. Now we're left trading Luongo, who nobody really wants. Huge mistake.

3 - trading Hodgson for Kassian is a reasonable gamble. The mistake was the timing. The thought that Kassian wouldn't have been available in the summer is hogwash. That said, I fully expect Cody to be the better NHL player. Reasonable gamble, though.

4 - who cares. Probably would never have seen the NHL anyway. Now those odds have just increased.

5 - yes, dumb move that did not work out at all. Did not want to be here. Obviously was already thinking about Sweden.

6 - Corrado's isn't a step back for development. Gaunce, probably.

7 - it concerns me that there's very few Canucks that are playing in any sort of competitive game. Is it not just Schneider & Weise, that have gone to Europe? Yikes. Could be a lot of other guys with many steps up in the speed department.

Another mistake, IMO, was giving up on Wellwood. Was great to see his offensive skills brought to light again in Winnipeg last year.
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#12 Lui's Knob

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:48 PM

lol you are saying a 5th round pick is taking a step back after being a shocking cut for the world juniors? dude corrado did an amazing feat just reaching the potential of making the try outs for team canada... some people geez


You're not reading it correctly - I didn't say Gaunce/Corrado were 'bad picks' what I meant is that the decision of Corrado being cut and Gaunce not being to play due to injury ...will that in hindsight hinder their development? Seems we got the raw end of that decision (again not the organization's fault)....make better sense?
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#13 JensenFan2011

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:55 PM

You're not reading it correctly - I didn't say Gaunce/Corrado were 'bad picks' what I meant is that the decision of Corrado being cut and Gaunce not being to play due to injury ...will that in hindsight hinder their development? Seems we got the raw end of that decision (again not the organization's fault)....make better sense?


i believe even just getting the chance to compete for the spot on team canada boosted corrado since at the begining of the season no one thought once about him having a chance. Corrado has a great mindset he will work hard and develope not making canada will not be his achilies heal if anything its the push he needs te become a great player rather than a good player
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#14 Markus Alexander Cody

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:01 PM

i believe even just getting the chance to compete for the spot on team canada boosted corrado since at the begining of the season no one thought once about him having a chance. Corrado has a great mindset he will work hard and develope not making canada will not be his achilies heal if anything its the push he needs te become a great player rather than a good player

He'll make it next year
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#15 250Integra

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:02 PM

and here's johnny!

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#16 CanuckRow

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:06 PM

Posts like this make me realize why I should not come on CDC during the lockout. The fact that you think that yours points are Canucks managements "mistakes" is hilarious.
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#17 SamJamIam

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:08 PM

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When King of the ES agrees with you, it's best to stick your head in a doorway and smash the door onto it for a few hours in an attempt to jump start brain activity. You're exhibiting a piss poor understanding of hockey right here.
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#18 goalie13

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:10 PM

Is it really a mistake if it can only be thought of that way in hindsight? Decisions are made based on the best information available at the time. MG doesn't have a crystal ball to know what things will look like down the road.
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#19 DeNiro

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:25 PM

A few years ago I really liked the direction we were headed in. The goal was clear - we had an all star goalie who needed some support around him, so that what we went out and got. We got Ehrhoff, Hamhuis, Ballard, Malhotra, etc all in an attempt to play a "D first" mentality. In addition, our stars were starting to shine up front so goal scoring wasn't a concern.

Now all of a sudden we have a changing of the guard in net, our top scorers have been shut down in critical playoff games for the past two seasons, and we have no real notable players coming up from the farm. We traded away our prized prospect, and we still get run and beaten up physically by all the other teams.

Our biggest problem is that our core is not getting any younger and we don't have any up and coming players who can take over the role of "core players" in a few seasons.

It remains to be seen how we stack up once hockey gets going again, but I can't help but feel that we missed our window of opportunity and that the window won't come again till a whole rebuild takes place again.


Why do people think we don't have any up and coming players?

We have lots of good up and coming players that will be part of the core of this team. You just have to open your eyes. Just because we don't have top 5 pick players that are coming in and performing at 18, doesn't mean we don't have good young players.

Edited by DeNiro, 18 December 2012 - 03:36 PM.

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#20 ice orca

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:28 PM

When King of the ES agrees with you, it's best to stick your head in a doorway and smash the door onto it for a few hours in an attempt to jump start brain activity. You're exhibiting a piss poor understanding of hockey right here.

This.
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#21 Langdon Algur

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:32 PM

Agree about Hodgson (but we beat that dead horse enough) and to a lesser extent Luongo's contract but you lost me at #6. Corrado was a steal of a pick, for a 5th rounder to be such a late cut to the hardest team to make for any player in his age group is just awesome, especially in a lock out year. It's bad we didn't get Schultz but the Canucks management can't force him to sign, he made his choice and it wasn't teh Canucks can't fault the team for that. It's too early to throw Garrison under the bus he's yet to play a single game as a Canuck.
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#22 ChenWei91

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:32 PM

1. Can't be considered a mistake. Schultz chose a team that will benifit him more in the future. He joined a young team full of potential star players, rather than joining an aging team, with little to no upcoming players that will help the team in the future.

2. I hated the signing from the start, and I knew that it would hinder us greatly in the future. But I can't blame Gillis for doing this, since we couldn't predict what Cory would become.

3. Kesler's injury problem is bad luck, and the team needs size and strength, which Kass brings. Only time will tell if he can produce, as well as he hits.

4. Can't comment. Haven't seen him play.

5. Ellington is a flop. And losing two fourth rounders isn't going to kill us.

6. Corrado's great. No complaints. Shouldn't have been cut. Gaunce's injury is just bad luck, no way we could've predicted his injury.

7. ...

Overall hindsight is hindsight, mixed in with a lot of bad luck... Can't dwell on it too long, since nothing will ever come of it. Unless of course we're able to invent a time machine. Or if we're able to trade Luongo for one or more top-tier prospects.
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#23 Bang Bang Boogie

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:35 PM

Your comment on Corrado doesn't make sense. He looked better than a lot of 1st round picks.
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#24 DeNiro

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:38 PM

Would Schultz get ice time over guys like Edler, Garrison, Hamhuis, or Bieksa?

No he wouldn't, that's why he signed somewhere else.
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#25 King of the ES

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:52 PM

Would Schultz get ice time over guys like Edler, Garrison, Hamhuis, or Bieksa?

No he wouldn't, that's why he signed somewhere else.


Do you think any of those 4 guys would be getting 1.5 PPG in the AHL, today?

Don't be so sure that Schultz wouldn't be able to outplay those guys for increased ice time. Nobody expected Ehrhoff to do what he did here.
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#26 theminister

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:58 PM

When King of the ES agrees with you, it's best to stick your head in a doorway and smash the door onto it for a few hours in an attempt to jump start brain activity. You're exhibiting a piss poor understanding of hockey right here.


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#27 thad

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:12 PM

lol corrado could be one of our biggest steals in a while
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#28 pibroch

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:18 PM

I haven't the OP yet, but my is yes, i'm sure they have made many critical mistakes in hindsight.
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#29 elvis15

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:30 PM

I'm not sure the OP understands what 'critical mistakes/organizational decisions' means if he's comparing them to things mostly outside of our control.
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#30 Pears

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:30 PM

Do you think any of those 4 guys would be getting 1.5 PPG in the AHL, today?

Don't be so sure that Schultz wouldn't be able to outplay those guys for increased ice time. Nobody expected Ehrhoff to do what he did here.

I think we all know that success in the AHL doesn't always translate to success in the NHL.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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