Canucks making critical mistakes in hindsight?

[Monty]

FABIAN BRUNSTROMZZ!

[ice orca]

Schultz would have been a nice pickup, Gillis probably could have pushed a bit more. Still, as long as Edler stays our D is stacked and Garrison will be beast.

The Cody-Kassian trade, yea big fail there. This isn't a trade to be judged 5 years from now, it has already backfired. We got booted out of the 1st round and missed a shot at a cup. Cody was exactly the type of player to turn that series around. All of the games were close, with his PP time and knack for scoring clutch goals in big games it's not a stretch at all to say we could have beaten LA with Coho. Really, I see us winning in 6.

With Cody we would have had a more set lineup, not the revolving mess of randomness we saw in each PO game.

Replacement for Daniel on the PP, maybe we don't give up SH goals by the handful and actually score a goal instead. Good chance at splitting the first two games, maybe even taking both.

Cody had an excellent shot, one of the few players (especially without Daniel) who could expose Quicks premature and low stance. Even just a couple points from him and we are heading into game 5 up 3-1 rather than down. With him and Daniel I don't see us losing game 5 and at worst I think we take it in 6. No one after the Kings was stopping us.

Im not a big Cody fan and really like Kassian but DAMN. His trade destroyed our chance at a cup, that isn't worth Kassian even if he turns into a far better player (not likely). Add Keslers injury, seriously how do you trade an offensive center when you know your 2C is hurt???? Now we lack prospects & centre depth. There isn't 1 thing that went right with this. Cody could get hit by a bus today and it would still be a terrible trade. How Gillis has managed to duck responsibility for it is beyond me.

[King of the ES]

Now you're just making a fool out of yourself. A 50 point D man wouldn't be able to put up 1.5 points per game in the AHL?? Wow, just wow If I'm not mistaken, 49 points out of 82 games is 0.60 points per game no? Do the math and try to prove me wrong King, try to prove me wrong like you always try to do.

[CanucksSayEh]

Please tell us how Cody would turn the series with LA facing Mike Richards every time he was on the ice. That would be the matchup Sutter would dream of and would be Vignaults nightmare.

[DeNiro]

Not sure if you've ever seen an AHL game, but the league is good. Not at all chump change. The idea that a guy like Kevin Bieksa would waltz into the AHL and put up 1.5 PPG is laughable.

I'll again point out Cody Hodgson as an example. His PPG in the AHL in 2010-11 was .58, whereas his PPG the following year in the NHL as a rookie with the Vancouver Canucks was .52. Not a huge difference. Competition down there is very good, don't kid yourself. What Schultz is doing is very, very special. For context, RNH has 20 points in 19 games. Only 8 goals. Explain that one.

[Canuck Surfer]

It does seem that since the deals that brought Higgins and Lappy, a majority of deals have created more problems than they solved.

For example;

On face value Higgins is better than Torres. But add in Manny's injury situation and our third line certainly does not offer the physical wall which could take on any top line defensively.

Edler has replaced Erhoff's scoring, but we no longer have the deadly breakout which made us the top scoring team in the league, nor do we acquire the zone (without his puck carrying skills) on the PP as well. Garrison will add some needed dimensions, but we still lack a guy who can lug the puck! It makes us susceptible to pressure and we spend more of our time playing defense. For the record; this NOT a forward to make Kesler effective is BY FAR our biggest need!

Booth added speed and physicality, but suddenly we were desperate for a large RW in our top 6 and we never yet iced the skater (Kassian may become) who intimidates and punishes opposing teams. And will Kassian get there while the Twins are still elite players?

Who is going to supply the puck control and passing Samuelsson and Hodgson were offering behind our first line?

Garrison is a blessing! He helps in many ways; no downside here.

Still need a bone crunching depth player at right D and right wing...

Many holes still... How many can we fill trading Lou?

A few years ago I really liked the direction we were headed in. The goal was clear - we had an all star goalie who needed some support around him, so that what we went out and got. We got Ehrhoff, Hamhuis, Ballard, Malhotra, etc all in an attempt to play a "D first" mentality. In addition, our stars were starting to shine up front so goal scoring wasn't a concern.

Now all of a sudden we have a changing of the guard in net, our top scorers have been shut down in critical playoff games for the past two seasons, and we have no real notable players coming up from the farm. We traded away our prized prospect, and we still get run and beaten up physically by all the other teams.

Our biggest problem is that our core is not getting any younger and we don't have any up and coming players who can take over the role of "core players" in a few seasons.

It remains to be seen how we stack up once hockey gets going again, but I can't help but feel that we missed our window of opportunity and that the window won't come again till a whole rebuild takes place again.

[Canuck Surfer]

I do not agree with the post you responded to which suggested Hodgson would have been enough to carry us past LA.

BUT I do not agree with your post either; Richards was the effectively chosen match up against Kesler by Sutter and Kopitars line was matched against the Twins. Hodgson would have relatively free to ply his trade against depth players as Sutter was not going to leave the Kesler match up. And CoHo showed all year he could take advantage of depth match ups.

That alone probably would not have carried us over the Kings, but look at it this way; LA traded a dynamic prospect just like Hodgson in the package for Richards. Had we been ahead of Bryz in the pre-season, perhaps we could have traded Lou and CoHo for Richards and Carter? That change in match ups (and we would still have had Samuelsson, cuz we could not have afforded Booth) and we win handily. The Hodgson trade was still a factor which hurt us.

More realistically had we simply converted Hodgson into something that could compete with Richards???

The reality is LA converted their prospects into a pieces that helped them contend not prospects which were several years from helping! Their GM gave them a better chance to win.

Please tell us how Cody would turn the series with LA facing Mike Richards every time he was on the ice. That would be the matchup Sutter would dream of and would be Vignaults nightmare.

[Canuck Surfer]

The general concept is that Schultz's skills first get the puck to the offensive zone when it might not otherwise.

Then keep the puck in the offensive zone as sustained pressure...

Then a depleted, tired and worn out opposing defensive crew are forced to take chances and centre ice draws after goals as they are playing from behind and we pick them apart!

Right now the game he was playing in the NHL last year, I could see Edler stepping up for like PPG. But still, I doubt Schultz defensive game is up to par where AV wants it.

[ice orca]

I do not agree with the post you responded to which suggested Hodgson would have been enough to carry us past LA.

BUT I do not agree with your post either; Richards was the effectively chosen match up against Kesler by Sutter and Kopitars line was matched against the Twins. Hodgson would have relatively free to ply his trade against depth players as Sutter was not going to leave the Kesler match up. And CoHo showed all year he could take advantage of depth match ups.

That alone probably would not have carried us over the Kings, but look at it this way; LA traded a dynamic prospect just like Hodgson in the package for Richards. Had we been ahead of Bryz in the pre-season, perhaps we could have traded Lou and CoHo for Richards and Carter? That change in match ups (and we would still have had Samuelsson, cuz we could not have afforded Booth) and we win handily. The Hodgson trade was still a factor which hurt us.

More realistically had we simply converted Hodgson into something that could compete with Richards???

The reality is LA converted their prospects into a pieces that helped them contend not prospects which were several years from helping! Their GM gave them a better chance to win.

[CanucksSayEh]

AV drew names out of a hat to make the line before each Playoff game. Broke up the Lappy-Hank-Burr line that had been successful after Daniels injury. Threw Booth in with the twins with zero game experience. It's like he flat out forgot Daniel wasn't playing, i know hes got a twin and you see him everyday at practice...but cmon man.

[Canuck Surfer]

LA was a pre-season favorite, playing great defense and not scoring. Hiring another defensive coach was a seriously risky move. No doubt the GM's job was on the on line!

But give credit where credit was due; obviously he and Sutter sat down and decided they still had enough offence on the blue line in Doughty and traded a depth offensive D man (Jack Johnson) for a goal scorer. Funny thing happened, they continued to play great defence, but started scoring goals. Before the season, they traded prospects for a 2knd line centre they needed (rather than wait for the prospect) on a long term contract, who has both been an all star and led a team to the SCF. They planned how they would add offense to the team as the year went on and executed the plan.

We had 4 left wings (Danny, Burr, Higgins and debatably Raymond plus our top prospect Jensen) capable of playing Top 6 minutes and only 1 natural RW (Samuelsson). So we traded our only right wing for ANOTHER left wing in Booth "to play with Ryan Kesler." Then we had to trade our only secondary play maker for Kassian to play on the right wing. And he sat in the press box because in reality he is too raw a prospect. Nor did Booth make Kesler effective. Our plans on all key acquisitions did not generate any of the desired results and left us with unfulfilled roles.

Can you honestly debate whether Gillis was as effective as LA's GM this year?

LA played like crap all year but gelled at the right time and their GM was by a lot of reports going to be axed. His biggest move was to hire Sutter who got Richards and Carter and the rest of their team to play to their abilities, almost polar opposite of what Vignault did with the Canucks the last 20 games and the series with the Kings.

[ice orca]

LA was a pre-season favorite, playing great defense and not scoring. Hiring another defensive coach was a seriously risky move. No doubt the GM's job was on the on line!

But give credit where credit was due; obviously he and Sutter sat down and decided they still had enough offence on the blue line in Doughty and traded a depth offensive D man (Jack Johnson) for a goal scorer. Funny thing happened, they continued to play great defence, but started scoring goals. Before the season, they traded prospects for a 2knd line centre they needed (rather than wait for the prospect) on a long term contract, who has both been an all star and led a team to the SCF. They planned how they would add offense to the team as the year went on and executed the plan.

We had 4 left wings (Danny, Burr, Higgins and debatably Raymond plus our top prospect Jensen) capable of playing Top 6 minutes and only 1 natural RW (Samuelsson). So we traded our only right wing for ANOTHER left wing in Booth "to play with Ryan Kesler." Then we had to trade our only secondary play maker for Kassian to play on the right wing. And he sat in the press box because in reality he is too raw a prospect. Nor did Booth make Kesler effective. Our plans on all key acquisitions did not generate any of the desired results and left us with unfulfilled roles.

Can you honestly debate whether Gillis was as effective as LA's GM this year?

[King of the ES]

It's not laughable when you consider him playing with the Sedins in the AHL. Schultz ain't getting 1.5 PPG without Eberle and Nugent-Hopkins.

[King of the ES]

Garrison is a blessing! He helps in many ways; no downside here.

[King of the ES]

Yes i think he is as effective as Lombardi albeit a little more conservative. The Canucks were also picked very high by the pundits to repeat but that is very very hard to do. After the big game in Boston both the Canucks and Bruins hit the wall hard and never really recouverd. I would like to of seen what the Kings would have done this year with a target on their back like the Canucks had last year.

[SamJamIam]

This is so wrong on so many levels. You're aware that Justin Schultz has more than TWICE the goals of Zack Kassian (the next Milan Lucic), right? 14 goals in 26 games, and you're whining that he's "raking in assists"? Hilarious. In fact, Justin Schultz has as many goals as the next Milan Lucic has points! Explain that one to me. Might want to check your facts before posting.

As for "getting Hodgsoned", that is equally laughable. An emotional GM's outburst after making a critical error are not words that should be carried with any weight. "Manipulating his numbers" is a joke, and that whole event was a colossal embarrassment for this organization.

[SamJamIam]

Gillis' critical error (besides the Hodgson move) lay in not trading Cory Schneider last year for more help. Maybe we could've got Nash, maybe we could've got Jeff Carter, etc. And maybe whatever supplement that was could've pushed us over the top.

You don't have many opportunities as the PT winner, may as well go balls out, IMO. Big mistake.

[King of the ES]

You think Kassian is the next Lucic? I don't. I expect him to have relatively slow improvement this year since he was rushed into play by Buffalo with very little development. Nice straw man argument though. I think this is really just all a cover for your man-crush on Schultz. You should do your hair up real nice and ask him out.

[Smashian Kassian]

That's ironic,DeNiro.

"Over hyping needs to stop?" You are kidding us? Tell me you are kidding us.

The kid is leading the entire AHL in scoring and he is a rookie d man.

Take a few reality pills and get back to us.Justin has almost 50% more pts. than the entire D corps of the Wolves- combined.

Can you tell us what Canucks management offered up to Schultz as incentives to sign here? Name one thing.

Alain sitting you at the end of the bench so he can keep his job?

Sitting next to a very talented Keith Ballard every night while you watch Alberts and Joslin play?

Watching Tanev take all your minutes while never scoring an NHL goal?

Canucks management are not known as player development overachievers.

This team is crying for a talented offensive d man to compliment the Sedins and the next generation.

It's like they dislike talented d men as they sure don't covet them.It is evident this mgmt. does not understand how important offensive pivots really are-Ehrhoff allowed to walk over Bieksa,Salo,Schultz.How many former NHL offensive d men are in positions of mgmt. on this club?

[King of the ES]

So in your world, a player that pretty much all our guys hate like Jeff Carter should have been acquired? Let's get Duncan Keith and Dave Bolland while we're at it. I'm sure that would go over well. And your other option is Nash, a player who was going to be a free agent in a few months, and wanted a payday we couldn't afford. Your brain operates in a realm very far removed from reality.