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Canucks making critical mistakes in hindsight?


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#541 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:28 AM

Yes

lol I apologize for that answer but it wasn't supposed to be just no. This site was lagging like crazy for me last night and at a certain point just stopped working. I didn't even realize I posted anything.

Don't get me wrong you're still probably incorrect that CH would have had enough of an impact to do anything in that series because the score did not reflect how badly this team played and how well LA played. CH is was and will be a very good if not great player with a great shot.

I 'm not in disagreement with you on his skill level and his promise but to think that because of that trade we didn't make it out of the first round is just plain silly. So again...probably not making any difference in that series and that trade was a good trade. We went from potentially having something we didn't need to potentially having something we did need. Everything else surrounding that trade is valid no matter how much people want to disregard it but bottom line taking all of it out that's what the trade comes down to.

Edited by EmployeeoftheMonth, 03 January 2013 - 08:29 AM.

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#542 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:32 AM

I have a suggestion .Stop bashing him.
Second suggestion is to get your head out of the sand because Kassian sat on the bench in the playoffs and Gillis said he would contribute.
At this stage we gave up a clutch scorer in Hodgson for future potential in Kassian.

Yeah,a bench warmer for a scoring center man with Kesler injured and Pahlsson long gone.
Super trade.



YEAH GUYZ STOP BASHING CODY BUT GUDAMN DAT KASSIUNS A BENCH WARMING LOOOSER.

Seriously nit? I mean literally right after your heart warming post you follow it up with that.
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#543 CanucksSayEh

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:25 AM

Kesler continues to have injury concerns and we are currently in the market for a center. Not exactly "no room to grow". I don't see it as a stretch to say he would have helped significantly vs LA. The team was trash, yes, still the games were close and we got better as the series went on. Just having Coho for the PP means we prob don't give up SH goals by the handful, easily could have split those 1st two games and we only needed 1 damn goal in game 3.

Push that to 7 games and it's up for grabs. Though I think we would have waxed them in 6.

Hurting our chances so close to the playoffs as a contender... That's just not cool. Save that trade for next year if your so keen on it. "Kassian may not have been available omgzz".... yea, doubt that. Cody had and has a lot of value. Burke was ranting that we didn't market Cody and he didn't get a chance to make an offer. Sounds like a real bidding war lol. A package with him and Lu, could have a pretty sweet return too.

If the season started on time, and we couldn't or didn't find a taker for Lu, our center depth would look like...

Hank, Schroeder,Lappy, Manny...................

I really like Kass, but damn that's scary.
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#544 oldnews

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:12 PM

I have a suggestion .Stop bashing him.
Second suggestion is to get your head out of the sand because Kassian sat on the bench in the playoffs and Gillis said he would contribute.
At this stage we gave up a clutch scorer in Hodgson for future potential in Kassian.


My suggestion to you is stop whining about Hodgson and if you think the criticisms are bashing, then stop bashing Kassian.

We gave up a kid who got eaten alive playing over his head in Buffalo, and would have gotten eaten alive by the likes of Kopitar, Richards and the big, physical, skilled forwards of the Kings.
They are both future potential. Hodgson was an overhyped rookie - that is all.
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#545 Baggins

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 02:04 AM

Kesler continues to have injury concerns and we are currently in the market for a center. Not exactly "no room to grow". I don't see it as a stretch to say he would have helped significantly vs LA. The team was trash, yes, still the games were close and we got better as the series went on. Just having Coho for the PP means we prob don't give up SH goals by the handful, easily could have split those 1st two games and we only needed 1 damn goal in game 3.

Push that to 7 games and it's up for grabs. Though I think we would have waxed them in 6.

Hurting our chances so close to the playoffs as a contender... That's just not cool. Save that trade for next year if your so keen on it. "Kassian may not have been available omgzz".... yea, doubt that. Cody had and has a lot of value. Burke was ranting that we didn't market Cody and he didn't get a chance to make an offer. Sounds like a real bidding war lol. A package with him and Lu, could have a pretty sweet return too.

If the season started on time, and we couldn't or didn't find a taker for Lu, our center depth would look like...

Hank, Schroeder,Lappy, Manny...................

I really like Kass, but damn that's scary.


Considering Buffalo was looking for a young NHL ready center to help push for a playoff spot, Kassian likely wouldn't be in Buffalo anymore by summer. Unlike EA, you don't get to dictate when a player (or type of player) will be available. In real life the other team is trying to answer needs as well.

Btw, with an initial round of buyouts there will be a healthy number of UFA's on the market to choose from. With money already in their pocket, a deal could be had for a guy wanting a shot at the cup on a single season deal.
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#546 nuck nit

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 02:12 AM

My suggestion to you is stop whining about Hodgson and if you think the criticisms are bashing, then stop bashing Kassian.
We gave up a kid who got eaten alive playing over his head in Buffalo, and would have gotten eaten alive by the likes of Kopitar, Richards and the big, physical, skilled forwards of the Kings.
They are both future potential. Hodgson was an overhyped rookie - that is all.


Problem is I don't bash Kassian so give your schtick a rest.
Your opinions are not facts.
Try accepting that.
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#547 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 03:26 AM

Burke was ranting that we didn't market Cody and he didn't get a chance to make an offer.

If the season started on time, and we couldn't or didn't find a taker for Lu, our center depth would look like...

Hank, Schroeder,Lappy, Manny...................

I really like Kass, but damn that's scary.


When was Burke "Ranting".

How do you know about this?


Oh and you can say that looks scary, but you must have also thought it looked pretty scary when Hodgson was on the 2nd line to start last year aswell, cause JS is doing better in the AHL than Coho was, so I don't see a difference there, Schroeder has earned a shot and he will get it.

Problem is I don't bash Kassian so give your schtick a rest.
Your opinions are not facts.
Try accepting that.


So ironic..... And yours are?

Considering Buffalo was looking for a young NHL ready center to help push for a playoff spot, Kassian likely wouldn't be in Buffalo anymore by summer. Unlike EA, you don't get to dictate when a player (or type of player) will be available. In real life the other team is trying to answer needs as well.

Btw, with an initial round of buyouts there will be a healthy number of UFA's on the market to choose from. With money already in their pocket, a deal could be had for a guy wanting a shot at the cup on a single season deal.


Your really on a roll Baggins, I used to tend to disagree with you, but recently I've agreed on pretty much everything you have said. +1

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 04 January 2013 - 03:26 AM.

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#548 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 04:53 AM

That's just it though isn't it. Having said that if Gillis goes to Shultz and says that he'll get top 4 minutes if Shultz looks at the Canucks D core and believes that I'd have to say he's not that bright. Oil got some guys to call him but essentially unless he's an idiot he knows just from looking at the rosters where he's going to get to play more.

I don't think guarantees or phone calls had anything to do with it. I think Shultz found the right fit for him right now. Oil will be a great team in the coming years and right now he can grow with that team. Here he has to fight for a spot and I really don't think he cracks this teams top 4 on a regular basis. Perhaps in a year or two he might but for right now Shultz made the best choice for himself...and that's exactly what he should have done.

Outside of lying, and even then we need to go under the presumption that Shultz has an IQ of 62 (or as nit would put it...works at 7-11) there was nothing Gillis could have done to land this kid over the oil. He is the Oilers prize for being a crappy team for so long. Good for them they got him, now hopefully they start doing something in this division because the Canucks are just as strong, the wild got exponentially better and Colorado is on it's way up as well.


Hmmm......what is this called again?


Oh ya, GAME......SET.......MATCH.......
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#549 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 05:09 AM

Scouting and player development are still major weaknesses with the Canucks. I would rather they clear some of the old guard out of some of those key positions and add some new blood. I think Gagner needs to go and the scouting department needs to start considering a wider range of leagues and players. It is getting a bit embarrassing how many quality late 1st and 2nd round guys they could have had and passed on. Hindsight is 20-20 but come on. It is bordering on statistically impossible.

When the rebuild comes it could be a long and ugly one with the way things are trending right now.

If the Oilers can ever learn to supplement their young core with the right free agents/role players they are going to be dominant. Colorado has a lot of good pieces in place as well. Minnesota is going top heavy in the hopes it will work and the Canucks are not getting any younger.

Edited by wallstreetamigo, 04 January 2013 - 05:11 AM.

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#550 Baggins

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 05:10 AM

Your really on a roll Baggins, I used to tend to disagree with you, but recently I've agreed on pretty much everything you have said. +1


So you've finally come to your senses. :lol:

Edited by Baggins, 04 January 2013 - 06:00 AM.

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#551 Gollumpus

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 05:25 AM

Kesler continues to have injury concerns and we are currently in the market for a center. Not exactly "no room to grow". I don't see it as a stretch to say he would have helped significantly vs LA. The team was trash, yes, still the games were close and we got better as the series went on. Just having Coho for the PP means we prob don't give up SH goals by the handful, easily could have split those 1st two games and we only needed 1 damn goal in game 3.

Push that to 7 games and it's up for grabs. Though I think we would have waxed them in 6.


There's a bit of 20/20 hindsight in your post. :)

How much was known as to the nature of Kesler's back (and wrist) at the time of the trade deadline? Perhaps Gillis might have done a different deal had he been able to to say that Kesler would have been up on blocks for as long as he has been.


Young guys want to be able to play and contribute now, rather than wait. It may be easy for us to sit here and say that Hodgson could have bided his time, and eventually Sedin and Kesler would retire. (Once that happened, in four or five years, then Hodgson would rise up in all his glory and lead the team to its first Cup and we'd all say, "OMG, when did we get this hockey god and why haven't we played him before?") I think Hodgson saw his situation here as being similar to Staal's when he was still with Pittsburg. Two guys playing ahead of him, both of whom are talented and likely going to be around for a few more years. Leaving was Hodgson's best personal option as there was "no room to grow" here, at least not in the short term.


I don't see still having Hodgson would have done anything to improve the final outcome of the series. Sure, maybe he would have generated an extra goal or two (either scored by him, or someone else), but I do not see him providing anything anywhere near enough to carry the Canucks past LA. And with his suspect defence, any offensive advantage he brought would likely be nullified.

Fun fact: in 20 games with the Sabres, getting more minutes and playing with "better" line mates, Hodgson scored 3g 5a 8 points. He was also -7. Pahlsson, who was brought in to replace Hodgson at 3C scored 2g 4a 6 points, and was a +4 in 19 games.

With Hodgson still here, the Canucks might have been able to take the series to five games.

Oh wait...


Hurting our chances so close to the playoffs as a contender... That's just not cool. Save that trade for next year if your so keen on it. "Kassian may not have been available omgzz".... yea, doubt that. Cody had and has a lot of value. Burke was ranting that we didn't market Cody and he didn't get a chance to make an offer. Sounds like a real bidding war lol. A package with him and Lu, could have a pretty sweet return too.


You're packaging Hodgson up with Luongo here. At the deadline, Schneider was still the likely candidate to be moved. In that weight class of player, Hodgson would be a throw-in.

Also, as was hinted at above, Hodgson might not have been as much of an asset in the playoffs as some might have hoped.


If the season started on time, and we couldn't or didn't find a taker for Lu, our center depth would look like...

Hank, Schroeder,Lappy, Manny...................

I really like Kass, but damn that's scary.


Gillis might have a center lined up in the assumed Luongo deal. The only reason the guy isn't around already might have something to do with the CBA talks and lockout.

There's also the possibility that Gillis a UFA signing or another trade waiting in the wings so the center ice depth would be more like: Sedin, New Guy (until Kelser returns), New Guy (after Kesler returns), Schroeder, Malhotra, Lapierre.

Less scary. :)


regards,
G.
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#552 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 07:29 AM

So you've finally come to your senses. :lol:


:lol: I guess you could put it like that.
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#553 Kulikov

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:56 PM

A few years ago I really liked the direction we were headed in. The goal was clear - we had an all star goalie who needed some support around him, so that what we went out and got. We got Ehrhoff, Hamhuis, Ballard, Malhotra, etc all in an attempt to play a "D first" mentality. In addition, our stars were starting to shine up front so goal scoring wasn't a concern.

Now all of a sudden we have a changing of the guard in net, our top scorers have been shut down in critical playoff games for the past two seasons, and we have no real notable players coming up from the farm. We traded away our prized prospect, and we still get run and beaten up physically by all the other teams.

Our biggest problem is that our core is not getting any younger and we don't have any up and coming players who can take over the role of "core players" in a few seasons.

It remains to be seen how we stack up once hockey gets going again, but I can't help but feel that we missed our window of opportunity and that the window won't come again till a whole rebuild takes place again.


I do have to agree somewhat, the problem is contributing prospects...we don't have them.. cup teams do. We did, but we decided to trade him for a player that does absolutely nothing right now. Maybe it was the right move, but it was the wrong time to move points for nothing.
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