Jump to content

Welcome to canucks.com Vancouver Canucks homepage

Photo
* - - - - 2 votes

Canucks making critical mistakes in hindsight?


  • Please log in to reply
552 replies to this topic

#181 Smashian Kassian

Smashian Kassian

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,483 posts
  • Joined: 10-June 10

Posted 19 December 2012 - 09:25 PM

I think our biggest mistake was the Coho trade. The Ballard Trade. the Neely Trade. Heck we can even throw the Stojanov trade in there too, he was going to be a star.

Derp :emot-parrot:
  • 0

zackass.png


#182 CanucksSayEh

CanucksSayEh

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,408 posts
  • Joined: 07-March 12

Posted 19 December 2012 - 09:36 PM

I think our biggest mistake was the Coho trade. The Ballard Trade. the Neely Trade. Heck we can even throw the Stojanov trade in there too, he was going to be a star.

Derp :emot-parrot:


Such topics are the point of this thread. Its cool to be critical, in the end we are all cheering for the same team. Shouldnt be any "quit whining" in here. Gotta learn from the mistakes.
  • 0

#183 surtur

surtur

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,801 posts
  • Joined: 19-March 10

Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:06 PM

Man that Corrado kid was such a huge let down what a bum wont even be a career AHL'er....
(150th overall) 5th round pick, 20 years old? 6' 190lbs (skinny punk) tore up the Team Canada tryouts scoring goals when he is a shut down D'man what a tool... who does that.



this kid will be alright me thinks.
  • 0

Release The KraKassian
Kassianthe_Krakensm.jpg


#184 Smashian Kassian

Smashian Kassian

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,483 posts
  • Joined: 10-June 10

Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:06 PM

Such topics are the point of this thread. Its cool to be critical, in the end we are all cheering for the same team. Shouldnt be any "quit whining" in here. Gotta learn from the mistakes.


I know just joking around lol
  • 0

zackass.png


#185 Smashian Kassian

Smashian Kassian

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,483 posts
  • Joined: 10-June 10

Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:07 PM

Man that Corrado kid was such a huge let down what a bum wont even be a career AHL'er....
(150th overall) 5th round pick, 20 years old? 6' 190lbs (skinny punk) tore up the Team Canada tryouts scoring goals when he is a shut down D'man what a tool... who does that.



this kid will be alright me thinks.


I don't know, he's a 5th round pick so I don't think he will ever make it anywhere, I think he got the invite to the selection camp just cause Hockey Canada felt bad for him, since he has been such a letdown with those massive expectations of being a 5th round pick.

:emot-parrot:
  • 0

zackass.png


#186 surtur

surtur

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,801 posts
  • Joined: 19-March 10

Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:12 PM

I don't know, he's a 5th round pick so I don't think he will ever make it anywhere, I think he got the invite to the selection camp just cause Hockey Canada felt bad for him, since he has been such a letdown with those massive expectations of being a 5th round pick.

:emot-parrot:

I think it was a huge mistake taking him so early in the draft it puts way to much weight on his shoulders to ensure he doesn't let anyone down.I think if they didn't draft him at all he might have a chance.
  • 0

Release The KraKassian
Kassianthe_Krakensm.jpg


#187 Smashian Kassian

Smashian Kassian

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,483 posts
  • Joined: 10-June 10

Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:19 PM

I think it was a huge mistake taking him so early in the draft it puts way to much weight on his shoulders to ensure he doesn't let anyone down.I think if they didn't draft him at all he might have a chance.


We should haven't have drafted him at all, we should have just invited him to prospects camp and signed him as a walk on, no sense wasting a pick like that.
  • 0

zackass.png


#188 WEwantCUP

WEwantCUP

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 761 posts
  • Joined: 10-June 10

Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:33 PM

Fortunately the game is played on the ice (when it's actually being played), not on message boards
  • 2

#189 oldnews

oldnews

    Declining Grinder

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,766 posts
  • Joined: 30-March 11

Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:37 PM

Please tell us how Cody would turn the series with LA facing Mike Richards every time he was on the ice. That would be the matchup Sutter would dream of and would be Vignaults nightmare.


Or worse - Hodgson trying to deal with Kopitar down low. Absolute disastrous matchup.
Jarret Stoll - difficult shutdown guy to deal with - was Hodgson going to exploit him?
Even their fourth line guys - Nolan (a giant) and Lewis are difficult guys to play against.

Yes - Hodgson was a skilled rookie - but the idea that he was going to win a series like that = noobthink.
The Canucks simply were not going to overcome LA - LA had fortuna on their side - and without Daniel and with a hobbled Kesler... - LA was simply too good and too well coached to beat when not firing on all cylinders. Pahlsson's one goal in five playoff games (.2 g/game) was pretty damn close to Hodgson's 19 in 83 (.23 g/game) last year - and needless to say, he did an immeasurably better job defensively than could have been expected of the rookie. People here obviously weren't paying much attention to what happened in Buffalo when the rookie got the minutes he wanted.
  • 1

#190 oldnews

oldnews

    Declining Grinder

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,766 posts
  • Joined: 30-March 11

Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:42 PM

Man that Corrado kid was such a huge let down what a bum wont even be a career AHL'er....
(150th overall) 5th round pick, 20 years old? 6' 190lbs (skinny punk) tore up the Team Canada tryouts scoring goals when he is a shut down D'man what a tool... who does that.



this kid will be alright me thinks.

Man that Corrado kid was such a huge let down what a bum wont even be a career AHL'er....


I know. Yet another wasted pick and example of the fact the Canucks have no prospects, no future.
The window is closed.
Fire up the rebuild.
  • 0

#191 Jägermeister

Jägermeister

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,217 posts
  • Joined: 24-May 12

Posted 20 December 2012 - 12:20 AM

Justin Schultz is the next John Slaney.
  • 0

Jagermeister.jpg


#192 Mr. White

Mr. White

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,554 posts
  • Joined: 22-May 12

Posted 20 December 2012 - 12:25 AM

Jeez why would the Canucks cut Corrado from the world junior team AND injure Brendan Gaunce?? Terrible move on the Canucks part




*sarcasm*
  • 0
Posted Image
^VanCauck93^

#193 Canuck Surfer

Canuck Surfer

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,512 posts
  • Joined: 27-December 10

Posted 20 December 2012 - 12:40 AM

In my opinion, it is far too early to tell who is more beneficial to their respective team. For all we know, Garrison could be money well spent in terms of his contract and Schultz could be unable to adapt to the NHL game. We won't know until the lockout is over..


The important fact, and I believe its a fact, is that the Canucks had two key weaknesses on D in spite of icing a very talented crew. We needed BOTH Garrison and Schultz who each delivered specific things we are missing.

Garrison being a 220 lb capable shut down guy might have been the more important, and he's already "made it" in this league. We simply could not continue without a guy capable of moving bodies from in front of our net, or without a guy big enough to match up against some of the teams that have monsters on their front lines. If I had to choose, I would take Garrison. He also has a bonus massive big shot as a clincher.

But Schultz is rated by many as, perhaps, the #1 prospect in the world both because of his talent, but also the fact that his particular skills are such a valuable (and rare) commodity. Make no mistake, the Canucks also badly need a puck rushing defender who can lug the puck up ice under pressure, break neutral zone traps with their speed, create odd man rushes by joining the play, control the puck and make seeing eye instinctive passes. We currently have guys that can each do one or two skills on that list, but not all and none that can skate and handle the puck. Schultz looks like he can? The prospect of a guy who could be a Paul Coffey is alluring. Coffey (even though he's a poor defender as some credit Schultz) has as many Stanley Cups as teams that play defence by committee (as we do) in the past 30 years. Tell me your not sick of watching that stupid Edler drop pass to gain the zone on our PP when we could have a legit puck handler join Edler, to deliver the puck into the offensive zone?

We would have moved Ballard or whomever was necessary to add Schultz to Garrison.

Well who would you rather have? A local guy like Garrison who scored 16 goals last season, and who's dream it was to play for Canucks since he was a kid. Who even came out publicly and said that he wants to play for the Canucks.

Or some kid who's from here, hadn't proven anything at the pro level, and needed to be promised the moon to sign here?

You can't have both. Schultz's cap hit is too big. I know whoI'd choose.


  • 1

#194 King of the ES

King of the ES

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,272 posts
  • Joined: 27-May 12

Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:22 AM

Okay so he is leading the AHL in scoring, great. What about his defesive game? When he gets to the NHL and is average offensively, or slightly above average offensively at best in his first year. How good will his defensive game be? Will he be reliable?


The guy defending Anton Rodin's 1 goal in 18 games is making light of the fact that Justin Schultz is leading the AHL in scoring. Who cares about that, right? How's his defensive game?

Rich.
  • 2

#195 King of the ES

King of the ES

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,272 posts
  • Joined: 27-May 12

Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:24 AM

By big gamble he means cap hit (3.6) for a guy who has never played an NHL game.


Standard ELC deal for any top draft picks - for which Schultz would certainly qualify. And he's now far less risky than your standard high draft pick, given what he's proven to do in the AHL.
  • 0

#196 King of the ES

King of the ES

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,272 posts
  • Joined: 27-May 12

Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:26 AM

I think this thread can best be described by "nuck nit and King of the ES make absurd claims about a sport they know nothing about and a whole bunch of people make the mistake of thinking that their ignorance will come to a sudden halt when faced with facts." Myself included.


Coming from the very individual who thought that Justin Schultz's stats were padded by an unusually high number of assists (and not goals), and from the guy who was against acquiring Rick Nash because he was to-be a UFA in 2012.

Who's the ignorant one?
  • 1

#197 Baggins

Baggins

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,471 posts
  • Joined: 30-July 03

Posted 20 December 2012 - 06:16 AM

Standard ELC deal for any top draft picks - for which Schultz would certainly qualify. And he's now far less risky than your standard high draft pick, given what he's proven to do in the AHL.


Except he wasn't proven when his deal was signed. Nor does AHL success automatically translate into NHL success.

The only thing Edmonton offered that Gillis wouldn't was guaranteed minutes. What contender would guarantee a rookie, who hasn't played a single pro game against adults, ice time? None. Only a bottom feeder would do that. So he signed with a bottom feeder.
  • 0

HiromiOshimaB.gif


#198 ice orca

ice orca

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,782 posts
  • Joined: 07-October 10

Posted 20 December 2012 - 07:25 AM

Except he wasn't proven when his deal was signed. Nor does AHL success automatically translate into NHL success.

The only thing Edmonton offered that Gillis wouldn't was guaranteed minutes. What contender would guarantee a rookie, who hasn't played a single pro game against adults, ice time? None. Only a bottom feeder would do that. So he signed with a bottom feeder.

Yeah everybody here is ragging on the Canucks for not doing enough to land Shultz but other teams like the Rangers walked away after talking to him. Top teams with winning tough coatchs like Torts or Babcock or Vignault are not going to put a raw rookie into the top 4 paring at the expense of a proven d-man. Shultz got what he wanted and good for him but his Lebron-esk attitude and snubbing of the team who drafted him should send alarm bells to a lot of people here.
  • 0

#199 King of the ES

King of the ES

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,272 posts
  • Joined: 27-May 12

Posted 20 December 2012 - 09:42 AM

The only thing Edmonton offered that Gillis wouldn't was guaranteed minutes. What contender would guarantee a rookie, who hasn't played a single pro game against adults, ice time? None. Only a bottom feeder would do that. So he signed with a bottom feeder.


The one fundamental reality that you're all ignoring is that if he's not any good, he will not play. Please read that slowly as it appears to be going in one ear and out the other.

If he isn't any good, he will not be playing.

And you're simply denying reality again if "immediate ice time" was the only consideration that Schultz's camp had in mind.
  • 1

#200 elvis15

elvis15

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,835 posts
  • Joined: 27-February 07

Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:24 AM

Yeah everybody here is ragging on the Canucks for not doing enough to land Shultz but other teams like the Rangers walked away after talking to him. Top teams with winning tough coatchs like Torts or Babcock or Vignault are not going to put a raw rookie into the top 4 paring at the expense of a proven d-man. Shultz got what he wanted and good for him but his Lebron-esk attitude and snubbing of the team who drafted him should send alarm bells to a lot of people here.

I'd hesitate to start questioning his attitude just because he chose Edmonton over us. They have a young team with a lot of talent he can grow with, and I see the appeal of that along with the sink or swim of the guaranteed ice time he's due to get. That outweighed the appeal of being able to play for the team you've cheered for as a kid who is also currently a top team, and I can't fault him for that.

Edited by elvis15, 20 December 2012 - 11:56 AM.

  • 0

c3c9e9.pnganimalhousesig.jpg

Tanev is going to EDM. I can put my life savings down on it

 


#201 elvis15

elvis15

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,835 posts
  • Joined: 27-February 07

Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:52 AM

...
We would have moved Ballard or whomever was necessary to add Schultz to Garrison.

I'm not sure of what you're thinking in that regard. It was never Schultz or Garrison, we absolutely had the opportunity to do both. Schultz didn't choose us so moving "Ballard or whomever was necessary" wouldn't have changed that decision since we wouldn't be moving anyone he'd be competing with anyway.
  • Hamhuis or Bieksa (both with NTCs) aren't going anywhere and they play as our primary shutdown pairing rather than competing for pure offensive minutes.
  • Edler as our 3rd top 4 D-man might have minor concerns with re-signing, but he pays the left side while Schultz plays the right. Trading Edler wouldn't have made a difference (and moving Edler just to make room for Schultz? c'mon) as he would have likely played alongside him.
  • Ballard, Tanev, Alberts, Connauton, etc. aren't competing for the same spot as Schultz either positionally (i.e. Ballard) or by ability (i.e. Alberts). Tanev plays the right side and could take a top 4 role, but needs to improve his offence to be considered above the 3rd pairing if we had players like Bieksa, Garrison and Schultz.
  • Schultz' only direct competition would be Garrison coming in as he can play the right side and is also established as a solid NHL defender while having a big slapshot and potential offensively.
  • Schultz had an opportunity to take over Salo's spot by showing he could play, but with the top 3 we already have and adding Garrison, he would have had to earn it rather than be guaranteed anything.

Edited by elvis15, 20 December 2012 - 11:54 AM.

  • 0

c3c9e9.pnganimalhousesig.jpg

Tanev is going to EDM. I can put my life savings down on it

 


#202 dorrcoq

dorrcoq

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,037 posts
  • Joined: 12-September 05

Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:39 PM

Look up the definition of "mistake" before posting again.

Edited by dorrcoq, 20 December 2012 - 01:41 PM.

  • 0

#203 SEAN HARNETT

SEAN HARNETT

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,100 posts
  • Joined: 27-July 05

Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:11 PM

I think outside of Corrado, the Canucks have done a sub-par job of drafting. The same can be said of SOME of the trades they've made aswell.

Likes: Corrado,Tanev"Free Agent", Hodgson" When Drafted", Btrendan Guance, Niklas Jensen, Higgens, lappiere,Garrison,Getting Ehrhoff for two years was awesome.

Dislikes: Trading Hodgson for an inferior prospect although I still like kassian. The Ballard trade wasn't the greateset idea ever although he has shown signs he is better then some give him credit for. The Canucks sure did give up alot to get ballard though. Drafting Anton Rodin might not have been the best idea and he was also alomost selected in the first round.

So the Canucks overall are not doing a horrible job, but it must be really difficult to draft considering they're always at the top of the standings. Here's hoping the next few drafts can turn out atleast one future All Star for the Canucks.
  • 0
:towel:

#204 Smashian Kassian

Smashian Kassian

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,483 posts
  • Joined: 10-June 10

Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:41 PM

The guy defending Anton Rodin's 1 goal in 18 games is making light of the fact that Justin Schultz is leading the AHL in scoring. Who cares about that, right? How's his defensive game?

Rich.


Do you expect his offensive skills to carry him? They won't.

He needs to be able to play defense too, and actually I am defending Rodin's 8 points in 18 games, but either way that is beside the point.

Not sure where you are going with this post, I asked how good is his defensive game since you seem to think he is the 2nd coming of Bobby Orr.
  • 0

zackass.png


#205 Smashian Kassian

Smashian Kassian

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,483 posts
  • Joined: 10-June 10

Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:45 PM

Standard ELC deal for any top draft picks - for which Schultz would certainly qualify. And he's now far less risky than your standard high draft pick, given what he's proven to do in the AHL.


You forgot to underline another word, but don't worry I bolded it there for you. (If you catch my drift)

Your so contradictive of yourself, you bash Ballard and Garrison for having big cap hits, but you have no issue with the fact that a rookie who has proven absoluetly nothing has a cap hit worth 3.75,

Interesting...
  • 0

zackass.png


#206 MattJVD

MattJVD

    Comets Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 357 posts
  • Joined: 24-January 11

Posted 20 December 2012 - 06:58 PM

Coming from the very individual who thought that Justin Schultz's stats were padded by an unusually high number of assists (and not goals), and from the guy who was against acquiring Rick Nash because he was to-be a UFA in 2012.

Who's the ignorant one?


Hey King, do you remember Jason Krog? How did his AHL 112pts in 80 games from a D man(2007-2008) translate to the NHL? Not saying Schultz is going to be a career AHLer with a few call-ups, just that AHL success for offensive D men doesn't always work out in the big leagues.

Edit: Also, Krog was a star at the university level too.

Edited by MattJVD, 20 December 2012 - 07:11 PM.

  • 0

#207 Bagofcats

Bagofcats

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 140 posts
  • Joined: 08-February 08

Posted 20 December 2012 - 07:38 PM

Why do people think we don't have any up and coming players?

We have lots of good up and coming players that will be part of the core of this team. You just have to open your eyes. Just because we don't have top 5 pick players that are coming in and performing at 18, doesn't mean we don't have good young players.


lolwut? How many canucks prospects are going to the world Juniors? 1, and he probably won't play. If that isn't the most obvious reminder that our prospect pool is terrible then I don't know what is. Saying our prospects are good is one thing, but if you want to compare ours to the rest of the league's teams then I don't think you can use the word "good." If these players are going to form the core of the team in the future then I don't see many cups coming our way.
  • 1

#208 SEAN HARNETT

SEAN HARNETT

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,100 posts
  • Joined: 27-July 05

Posted 20 December 2012 - 07:46 PM

lolwut? How many canucks prospects are going to the world Juniors? 1, and he probably won't play. If that isn't the most obvious reminder that our prospect pool is terrible then I don't know what is. Saying our prospects are good is one thing, but if you want to compare ours to the rest of the league's teams then I don't think you can use the word "good." If these players are going to form the core of the team in the future then I don't see many cups coming our way.


Free Agents can still sign here and trades can still be made. As it stands now the Canucks have some pretty decent prospects. Another thing to take into account is that the canucks have another 3 - 4 seasons of drafting before a serious rebuild needs to be done.

lastly, I'm pretty sure Gillis is looking at adding either a high end prospect or draft pick in the Luongo trade. The Canucks will be fine!
  • 0
:towel:

#209 nuck nit

nuck nit

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,521 posts
  • Joined: 27-June 10

Posted 20 December 2012 - 09:50 PM

Posted Imagenateb123, on 19 December 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

I think this thread can best be described by "nuck nit and King of the ES make absurd claims about a sport they know nothing about and a whole bunch of people make the mistake of thinking that their ignorance will come to a sudden halt when faced with facts." Myself included.


"He has parts of Niedermayer and one player he reminds me of is Drew Doughty," Oklahoma City coach Todd Nelson told NHL.com. "The NHL is a step higher, but I see him doing the same thing up there. Maybe not as explosive in his first year, but I see him contributing offensively. I see him playing a lot of minutes, just as he does here -- and he plays about 30 minutes a game, handles it well.
"Is he capable of being a Scott Niedermayer? He's very capable. I feel very comfortable in saying that."
  • 0

#210 nuck nit

nuck nit

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,521 posts
  • Joined: 27-June 10

Posted 20 December 2012 - 09:53 PM

Posted ImageDeNiro, on 18 December 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:
Why do people think we don't have any up and coming players?

We have lots of good up and coming players that will be part of the core of this team. You just have to open your eyes. Just because we don't have top 5 pick players that are coming in and performing at 18, doesn't mean we don't have good young players.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
TSN just did a Top 30 Prospects special.
Schultz is #1.
Our beloved Vancouver Canucks are the only Canadian team without a prospect in the Top 30.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=411680

Edited by nuck nit, 20 December 2012 - 10:16 PM.

  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Canucks.com is the official Web site of The Vancouver Canucks. The Vancouver Canucks and Canucks.com are trademarks of The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership.  NHL and the word mark and image of the Stanley Cup are registered trademarks and the NHL Shield and NHL Conference logos are trademarks of the National Hockey League. All NHL logos and marks and NHL team logos and marks as well as all other proprietary materials depicted herein are the property of the NHL and the respective NHL teams and may not be reproduced without the prior written consent of NHL Enterprises, L.P.  Copyright © 2009 The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership and the National Hockey League.  All Rights Reserved.