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#1 Pears

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:01 AM

We all know the unlikely hood of Luongo waiving his no-trade clause for Columbus, but if he did would this be the right kind of return/value for him?

To Vancouver: Boone Jenner, Artem Anisimov, 2013 Cbj, LA or NYR 1st (Columbus's choice)

To Columbus: Roberto Luongo + David Booth + Mason Raymond

Pros for Vancouver: We get a pretty good prospect in Jenner, a solid third line center and either a good pick (Columbus), or a solid pick (LA or New York). Plus we shed some salary in the process

Cons for Vancouver: We lose a top six forward and a good third liner, but other than that I think this deal will help us reach the top.


Pros for Columbus: They greatly upgrade in net by adding an all-star, gold-medal winning goalie in Luongo who should help them start turning things around. And they get Booth who would round out their top six.

Cons for Columbus: They may lose a top prospect in Jenner and a solid third line center in Anisimov, but Luongo and Booth should help Columbus fans forget about that pretty quickly.

Projected lines:

Columbus:

Umberger - Johansen - Booth
Brassard - Dubinsky - Atkinson
Foligno - Prospal - Raymond
Boll - Mackenzie - Dorsett

Johnson - Tyutin
Wisniewski - Murray
Nikitin - Aucoin

Luongo
Mason

Vancouver:

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Higgins - Kesler - Kassian
Jenner - Anisimov - Hansen
Lapierre - Malhotra - Weise

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Garrison
Ballard - Tanev

Schneider
Lack

Thoughts?

Edited by Steven Stamkos' Mullet, 19 December 2012 - 01:15 AM.

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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#2 Pineapples

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:11 AM

I don't think we can afford to lose a top 6 player without an immediate replacement.

And I think you meant to put Anisimov in the projected lines instead of Jenner.
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#3 Jägermeister

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:13 AM

As much as I like Boone Jenner, I don't think this is a good deal for us.
Lu would be worth Jenner + the 1st (With LA's or NYR's at least, and with that line-up CBJ could make the playoffs so it wouldn't be a great pick in any scenario), and Booth is better than Anisimov. That essentially means Raymond is going out for nothing.

Edited by Jägermeister, 19 December 2012 - 01:15 AM.

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#4 Pears

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:14 AM

I don't think we can afford to lose a top 6 player without an immediate replacement.

And I think you meant to put Anisimov in the projected lines instead of Jenner.

If Jensen is ready for top six minutes next season then he would be the perfect replacement. If not then we could find a top six forward in free agency.

And yea I just edited that. I have Anisimov at center and Jenner on the left side.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#5 Pineapples

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:39 AM

If Jensen is ready for top six minutes next season then he would be the perfect replacement. If not then we could find a top six forward in free agency.

And yea I just edited that. I have Anisimov at center and Jenner on the left side.


We need another top 6 now anyways imo. Since I think Higgins is much more suited for 3rd line and Kassian isn't ready for top 6.

I wouldn't trade Booth unless we did sign a FA.

I also don't see why Columbus would want Lu. I would think they would want a younger goalie who could develop with their young players, but that's just me.
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#6 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:40 AM

I think Booth is better than Anisimov, so we lose there, Lu is probably worth Jenner + the picks, maybe a tad more.

Maybe take Booth and the 3rd out, that way we don't lose Raymond for nothing. Then if that is too much of a stretch then make there 1st a 2nd or add something from our side.
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#7 JensenFan2011

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 09:06 AM

I do eventually think MG will get Jenner but not in a luongo trade.... Jensen, Kesler, Jenner
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#8 eretz canucks

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:34 AM

What trade would he make to get Jenner if Luongo is not involved
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#9 Pears

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:54 AM

What trade would he make to get Jenner if Luongo is not involved

I think maybe something that would be too steep of a price. Something like Booth, Higgins, Raymond, 2nd.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#10 eretz canucks

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 11:01 AM

Booth, Higgins, Raymond, 2nd is a massive overpayment.
Jenner is projected as a 3C. Higgins and Booth can both be top 6 guys. For a team that realistically has 2 years left of a window, this is not worth it.
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#11 shawn antoski

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 11:06 AM

what the ................. you just gave a small market team extra 10 million in salary

:picard: u think

lu + booth = jenner + anisomov + pick

no respect for lu :sadno:
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#12 elvis15

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 11:11 AM

If we're sending them a goalie with significant enough salary (like Lu, but Schneider with his new contract would also apply) they'd want to move Mason. They can keep Bobrovski as a cheaper backup in that scenario, and still have Allen York coming up. Sure, they could make a separate deal but that's not the only point that makes Columbus say no.

Initially, those valuing Jenner and a 1st in return for Luongo is probably high, although if Columbus starts the season with both Bobrovski and Mason playing poorly, it might force their hand to go after a goalie that can help them. The value would be about right for Schneider though.

For the rest of it, I don't see them moving two centers, one they just acquired and another who is a top prospect. Raymond adds very little value and he and Booth are both left wingers, when Columbus has too many of those to begin with (Umberger, Dubinski, Foligno, Prospal could all be LW for them, although they may move Brassard or Johansen to the wing in the top 9 to balance both sides out). Columbus also takes on more salary than they give up (~$12M to them versus ~$3M to us) so they easily say no.

Here's an alternative:
To Columbus:
Luongo, Grenier, 3rd
To Vancouver:
Mason, Savard, 1st (CBJ)

I'm probably still under value on our offer from their perspective, but it lets them upgrade on Mason while moving him away. Mason's current deal is up this summer, so could be renegotiated to a lesser value even if only by a bit. Savard is a solid, NHL ready D-man who plays the right side and another first in this year's draft (even if it's a mid rounder) is a bonus.

CBJ gets Luongo obviously (assuming he waives to go there) and a RW prospect when they're short of size and skill in their prospect pool on that side. They have lots of D prospects so losing Savard isn't major although they might prefer to move Goloubef as more of a puck moving D man when they have Murray and Erixon already in the same mold.

Edited by elvis15, 19 December 2012 - 11:13 AM.

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#13 Pears

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 11:42 AM

If we're sending them a goalie with significant enough salary (like Lu, but Schneider with his new contract would also apply) they'd want to move Mason. They can keep Bobrovski as a cheaper backup in that scenario, and still have Allen York coming up. Sure, they could make a separate deal but that's not the only point that makes Columbus say no.

Initially, those valuing Jenner and a 1st in return for Luongo is probably high, although if Columbus starts the season with both Bobrovski and Mason playing poorly, it might force their hand to go after a goalie that can help them. The value would be about right for Schneider though.

For the rest of it, I don't see them moving two centers, one they just acquired and another who is a top prospect. Raymond adds very little value and he and Booth are both left wingers, when Columbus has too many of those to begin with (Umberger, Dubinski, Foligno, Prospal could all be LW for them, although they may move Brassard or Johansen to the wing in the top 9 to balance both sides out). Columbus also takes on more salary than they give up (~$12M to them versus ~$3M to us) so they easily say no.

Here's an alternative:
To Columbus:
Luongo, Grenier, 3rd
To Vancouver:
Mason, Savard, 1st (CBJ)

I'm probably still under value on our offer from their perspective, but it lets them upgrade on Mason while moving him away. Mason's current deal is up this summer, so could be renegotiated to a lesser value even if only by a bit. Savard is a solid, NHL ready D-man who plays the right side and another first in this year's draft (even if it's a mid rounder) is a bonus.

CBJ gets Luongo obviously (assuming he waives to go there) and a RW prospect when they're short of size and skill in their prospect pool on that side. They have lots of D prospects so losing Savard isn't major although they might prefer to move Goloubef as more of a puck moving D man when they have Murray and Erixon already in the same mold.

That's a pretty good counter proposal. Come to think of it that would be a pretty solid return for Luongo especially if Columbus's pick is a top 10.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#14 Pears

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 11:46 AM

what the ................. you just gave a small market team extra 10 million in salary

:picard: u think

lu + booth = jenner + anisomov + pick

no respect for lu :sadno:

How is this proposal 'no respect for Luongo'? Jenner is a top prospect, Anisimov is a very good third line center, and getting Columbus's first which could be a top 10 pick is something I'm sure MG will think long and hard about.

You always rip me for in my proposals for whatever reason and yet never see a counter proposal from you. So I am asking you to come up with a Luongo proposal that in your opinion would be fair for both teams.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#15 Tom Sestito

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 11:47 AM

I really like that counter proposal. It's quite fair to be honest.
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Thank you VC!

#16 elvis15

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:11 PM

That's a pretty good counter proposal. Come to think of it that would be a pretty solid return for Luongo especially if Columbus's pick is a top 10.

I really like that counter proposal. It's quite fair to be honest.

Thanks. I'm not sure if CBJ would completely go for it, especially if they still think their pick would be in the top 10 overall, but I thought it might be reasonable and addresses both teams' needs.
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#17 JHansenFan

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 03:24 PM

I like this deal however I would love to see something in terms of getting Brassard. I understand it's not realistic, but he could be the perfect compliment to Kesler.

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Brassard-Kesler-Booth

That's a killer top six.
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#18 eretz canucks

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 03:52 PM

I like the proposal a lot, even without the Brassard element I would do the deal.

To CBJ

Luongo
Higgins
Grenier
2013 2nd

To Van
Brassard
Mason
Savard
CBJ 2013 1st


Sedin Sedin Burrows
Brassard Kesler Booth
Kassian Lappy Hansen
Weiss Malhotra Raymond

Bieksa Hamhuis
Edler Garrison
Ballard Tanev

Savard
Alberts

Schneider
Mason


Once Mason gets his game back we can flip him for a late first in 2014
Higgins is a really useful player but we need to give Kassian a shot at been a dominant guy and while I'd like to see him top 6, starting on the 3rd line is fine
Our 4th line needs a make over- we need an effective big body who can skate hard and get in on the forecheck.
Some people may prefer to give away raymond over higgins, but I think CBJ would not go for that.
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#19 eretz canucks

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 03:56 PM

At end of the year, dump ballard for a 2nd and 3rd and bing Savard into the top 6

Next year on the wolves, potentially...

Cannauton
Corrado
Andersson
McNally
Price
Sauve

that's not bad, all our draft picks, McNally, Price may be better suited for the ECHL to begin with but this could happen. What this says about our drafting is that from the 4th round on we are pretty good at getting potential NHL 3rd pairing D men, but we select poorly in the second round
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#20 eretz canucks

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 10:40 AM

I rather have Higgins at 1.9 mil with his solid defensive play, than brassard actually. Higgins in top 6 role all year is a 50 guy and that is what Brassard has been- a 35-45 point guy with an awful +-. Brassard can play 3C unless I am mistaken.
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#21 canuktravella

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 02:47 PM

how about these 5 trades
1 boon jenner derek dorsett jackets 1st for bobby and a 3rd rounder

2 ballard for gunnarson

3 booth jackets 1st rounder for hamonic

4 edler vans 1st schroder for perry

5 parros for rodin alberts


next yrs lineup

sedin sedin perry
jensen kesler burrows
higgins lapps dorsett
hansen jenner kassian
parros

hamhuis bieska
garrison hamonic
gunnarson sauve
this team wouldnt get pushed around

Edited by canuktravella, 23 December 2012 - 03:13 PM.

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#22 JimLahey

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 02:51 PM

how about these 4 trades
1 boon jenner derek dorsett jackets 1st for bobby and a 3rd rounder

2 ballard raymond for gunnarson ashton carter

3 booth 2nd rounder ashton carter for hamonic

4 parros for rodin 4th

If we send CBJ a goalie, we are getting one back. I would rather keep Ballard / Tanev as our third pair because they compliment eachother well. Carter Ashton is also looking pretty underwhelming with the Marlies this year, I would rather keep Raymond. Hamonic is a stud, NYI needs Edler/1st to talk.

I do like the idea of getting Parros though.
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#23 canuktravella

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 03:04 PM

i edited my trades hows that sound
jackets can always trade one of their goalies to another team like he leafs
raymond is crap no grit falls on ass all night.
parros would end players punching sedins in face do you think marchant would have the balls even lucic would think twice.

Edited by canuktravella, 23 December 2012 - 03:11 PM.

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#24 shawn antoski

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 05:00 PM

How is this proposal 'no respect for Luongo'? Jenner is a top prospect, Anisimov is a very good third line center, and getting Columbus's first which could be a top 10 pick is something I'm sure MG will think long and hard about.

You always rip me for in my proposals for whatever reason and yet never see a counter proposal from you. So I am asking you to come up with a Luongo proposal that in your opinion would be fair for both teams.


:picard: READ UR OWN PROPOSAL AGAIN

its not just luongo for 'Jenner is a top prospect, Anisimov is a very good third line center, and getting Columbus's first which could be a top 10 pick'

ur trading away an elite goaltender + top 6 forward + tweener 3rd liner + additional 9 million dollars in salary

u just really suck at proposals
1. lu is never going to columbus your post is a waste
2. Columbus can not take on 9 million dollars in salary

heres my proposal
ill trade you 100 bucks for you to never show up on cdc again
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#25 SkeeterHansen

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 05:05 PM

I would love to see Boone Jenner in a Canuck uni, but aside from that I would say it's a big fat no.
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/=S=/


#26 JimLahey

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 05:10 PM

i edited my trades hows that sound
jackets can always trade one of their goalies to another team like he leafs
raymond is crap no grit falls on ass all night.
parros would end players punching sedins in face do you think marchant would have the balls even lucic would think twice.

Your first trades were better IMO. CBJ has Mason, York and Bobrovsky so they would need to send one to us, unles they can ship 2 away. Raymond is not crap, he is not physical. Being physical =/= being effective. He is defensively responsible and would be a good 2/3 liner with PK responsibilities. I think the VAN/TOR trade you propose does not make us better and ANA/VAN depletes us of defensive depth and 2 god prospects (assuming the 1st is kept). But I still like Parros :P
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#27 Pears

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 05:12 PM

:picard: READ UR OWN PROPOSAL AGAIN

its not just luongo for 'Jenner is a top prospect, Anisimov is a very good third line center, and getting Columbus's first which could be a top 10 pick'

ur trading away an elite goaltender + top 6 forward + tweener 3rd liner + additional 9 million dollars in salary

u just really suck at proposals
1. lu is never going to columbus your post is a waste
2. Columbus can not take on 9 million dollars in salary

heres my proposal
ill trade you 100 bucks for you to never show up on cdc again

How about you just stop replying to my threads if all you're gonna do is troll in them? Anisimov, Jenner and a 1st is a very reasonable return for Luongo who you highly overvalue, plus it meets what MG wants for Luongo: A roster player (Anisimov) a top prospect (Jenner) and a pick (1st). And yes Columbus can take $9 million back in salary as they have $12.5 million in cap space at the moment.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#28 canuktravella

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 05:47 PM

ya antoski u underestimate bobby luos value ( a first rounder a prospect and a roster player) then again you probably liked it when canucks drafted antoski which was one of vans worsed draft blunders ever.

lahey mason raymond is fine defensively but he is not worth 2.3 million in cap space hansen and lapps bring more to the table at less than half his price tag. the team doesnt lack talented players it lacks meaness and grit raymond will be gone by the deadline if he isnt gillis should be fired.

Edited by canuktravella, 23 December 2012 - 05:49 PM.

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#29 SkeeterHansen

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 05:53 PM

ya antoski u underestimate bobby luos value ( a first rounder a prospect and a roster player) then again you probably liked it when canucks drafted antoski which was one of vans worsed draft blunders ever.

lahey mason raymond is fine defensively but he is not worth 2.3 million in cap space hansen and lapps bring more to the table at less than half his price tag. the team doesnt lack talented players it lacks meaness and grit raymond will be gone by the deadline if he isnt gillis should be fired.


Pot calling the kettle black.
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/=S=/


#30 Gollumpus

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 08:56 PM

We all know the unlikely hood of Luongo waiving his no-trade clause for Columbus, but if he did would this be the right kind of return/value for him?

To Vancouver: Boone Jenner, Artem Anisimov, 2013 Cbj, LA or NYR 1st (Columbus's choice)

To Columbus: Roberto Luongo + David Booth + Mason Raymond



I see that Canucks giving up too much in this deal as it sits.

1.) I agree with BUREV that the Canucks can't afford to get rid of another top-6 forward without a replacement waiting in the wings (so to speak).

2.) Jenner looks like he has a lot of promise. he shows offensive ability and I'm assuming he is also capable in his defensive game. How's his skating? He looks like he can get from point A to point B, but he doesn't look to be "fast". Maybe it's just his style which is deceptive.

I might try and wheedle Johansen out of Columbus. He looks to have a bit more offensive upside, and looks to be the better skater of the two.

3.) Anisimov looks like he could serve as a good 2C/3C tweener. He would likely bring a lot more offensive ability to the position and the line than what the current group could provide (Malhotra, Lapierre, Ebbett). He also has pretty good size, which he uses fairly well

I do have a concern about his face-offs. He has never been at 50% or greater in any given season. For how AV likes to use his 3rd line in his own defensive zone, this could be a problem if Anisimov didn't show improvement, but he is still a young guy and has some time to learn.

And how is his defensive game? His stats show he's not bad, but stats can lie. :)

4.) I wouldn't mind a conditional clause on that 1st. Columbus can choose the one they wish to keep, and then the Canucks could select one from the two remaining, otherwise, there may as well be a clause which says, "Vancouver gets the lowest of the three picks Columbus has in this draft." It gives the pick the potential to be a bit more valuable to the Canucks, even if it might only be a few steps up in the bottom third of the 1st round.


To Vancouver: Ryan Johansen (or Boone Jenner if things get stuck and Gillis feels the need to give some on the deal), Artem Anisimov, 2013 Cbj, LA or NYR 1st (Columbus gets first choice, then the Canucks can select one from the remaining two). Maybe some cap/contract dump?

If there's a need to move some cap back to the Canucks... I'm not sure what would be available. Maybe one of the CBJ goalies?


To Columbus: Roberto Luongo + Mason Raymond


regards,
G.
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Following the Canucks since before Don Cherry played here.




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