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#31 D.Doughty

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:23 PM

they should have canceled school as well...
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#32 trek

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:46 PM

$$$$

What costs more? Paying for claims due to damage and delays or putting in an electric heating system?

If either turns out to be more than "not much" (don't count on it) than you can expect lawyers to argue over what the actual terms were in the contract. I doubt "prevent ice and snow from falling on the travelled path" is in even the fine print....


They won't be arguing over claims on vehicles if someone gets seriously injured or killed by falling ice.
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#33 masutheakita

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:27 PM

the obvious solution is to install giant cocktail shakers
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#34 ronthecivil

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 11:42 PM

Er, i meant fixing the problem.

Getting lawyers involved, as usual, just adds to the problem.

If only lawyers were more like engineers.

^^ I don't think electric heat would be ultra-costly, as it won't be needed often. But that probably won't be required.

The option of simply letting the ice fall and then deal with the litigation isn't even on the table.


I asked a group of structural engineers (two of whom were driving over the bridge and saw the bombs falling) and they are thinking that it won't be cheap to fix. I mentioned the electric heat and they were like "wow that would be expensive!".
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#35 ronthecivil

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 11:43 PM

They won't be arguing over claims on vehicles if someone gets seriously injured or killed by falling ice.


Claims from performance specs that relate to keeping the bridge open.
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#36 Bob.Loblaw

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:02 AM

This was an unreasonable oversight. Vancouver's not likely to get any temperatures under -10, so the cold precipitation we'll get is packing snow, freezing rain and hail. Every time the city had snowfall, rain followed. The result that we always get is ice and slush. They should have seen this coming.
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#37 Buggernut

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 07:01 AM

Ice chunks have been known to fall from that bridge as well in similar conditions. Lets face it, it was a freak storm. Many bridges have had the same issues across the world.


Then they should have learned from them and known better.
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#38 ronthecivil

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 07:54 AM

Then they should have learned from them and known better.


They are saying they followed the Canadian bridge code to the "T".
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#39 inane

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:44 AM

They are saying they followed the Canadian bridge code to the "T".


Sounds like 'I was just following orders' lol

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...t-mann-ice.html

From the article

'Christos Georgakis, a structural engineering expert from Denmark, says dangerous situations like the falling ice chunks on should be expected.
Georgakis says bridge designers don't often do risk assessment for icing, despite the fact that falling ice is common on bridges in northern regions.
"If it happened once, it'll happen again," he said.'
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#40 lmm

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:56 AM

Add Christmas lights to the structures that accumulate ice
your welcome
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#41 Wetcoaster

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:19 PM

The BC government is placing the blame on the contractor and engineers who designed the bridge.


The contractor who built the new Port Mann Bridge is solely responsible for the damage caused by falling ice Wednesday because the company failed to meet specifications in the construction contract, B.C.'s transportation minister Mary Polak says.


Polak said Thursday the province and Transportation Investment Corp. relied on Kiewit-Flatiron and its engineers to ensure there would be no snow or ice accumulation on the bridge.


"What we saw occur yesterday on the Port Mann was absolutely unacceptable," Polak said.


"This is the responsibility of the contractor. The taxpayer will not be on the hook for this."


Polak, who did not return media calls Wednesday, said Thursday the situation "was absolutely unacceptable."


Two people were injured after chunks of ice fell off the bridge's cable supports. About 120 claims have also been filed by drivers as a result of the damage.


Mike Proudfoot, the CEO of the Transportation Investment Corp., says the company will cover the deductibles of any drivers who filed claims.


The company will also waive the tolls for drivers who used the bridge between 10 a.m. and 6 p.m. on Wednesday.


Two people were injured in the rain of ice, which forced the closure of the new bridge for several hours during a major snowstorm on Wednesday.


Earlier, Proudfoot apologized to drivers for the problem and said engineers have been called in to see if they can prevent a repeat of the falling ice.


University of B.C. engineering professor Perry Adebar said it is too early to call the bridge’s design a mistake.


But he noted that because the cables on the Port Mann are inclined over the bridge, much of the snow will fall on its deck, unlike the Alex Fraser, where cables are outside the driving area.


“Let’s hope that the way the ice accumulated on the stay cables was a very unusual occurrence and that we will not witness this again for many years,” Adebar said in an email.


NDP transportation critic Harry Bains said the B.C. Liberal government should have considered this kind of weather in the design of the bridge.


He said the falling ice raises questions of the bridge’s safety.


Bains said Wednesday’s weather — wet snow and freezing temperatures — is not unusual in the Lower Mainland.


He said the B.C. Liberals are quick to take credit for the bridge during numerous photo opportunities, but will need to answer some serious questions about its safety and design.


“The buck must stop with the (transportation) minister,” said Bains.


B.C. Transportation Minister Mary Polak, who was travelling Wednesday, was not available for comment.

http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Port+Mann+Bridge+reopens+after+slush+bombs+endanger+drivers+damage+vehicles+with+video/7714237/story.html#ixzz2FdYBzWtN
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

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#42 Opmac

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:09 PM

And as expected, this is used as ammunition against the BC Liberals.

Good to know Kiewit-Flatiron will be responsible for rectifying this.

No engineer, but if heating doesn't work, some kind of netting/sieve over the highway? Posted Image
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#43 inane

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:10 PM

And as expected, this is used as ammunition against the BC Liberals.

Good to know Kiewit-Flatiron will be responsible for rectifying this.

No engineer, but if heating doesn't work, some kind of netting/sieve over the highway? Posted Image


Yeah, we should just get the Libs to contact out a giant roof over this thing. That way it will never leak....right?
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#44 Wetcoaster

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:30 PM

And as expected, this is used as ammunition against the BC Liberals.

Good to know Kiewit-Flatiron will be responsible for rectifying this.

No engineer, but if heating doesn't work, some kind of netting/sieve over the highway? Posted Image

Just because Polak makes that claim, does not mean that will be the case.

It will depend upon the wording of the contract.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#45 J.R.

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:32 PM

Do we really expect politicians of any party to design bridges now? This isn't a political issue, it's an engineering one. Let's just turn down the sensationalism and political rhetoric a notch shall we?
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#46 Wetcoaster

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:38 PM

Do we really expect politicians of any party to design bridges now? This isn't a political issue, it's an engineering one. Let's just turn down the sensationalism and political rhetoric a notch shall we?

Well we most certainly do not want civil engineers designing them, eh? :towel:
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#47 canucks since 77

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:23 PM

Looks like one of the few feathers in the B.C liberals cap just got singed.
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Politeness is the first step to respect!

#48 KoreanHockeyFan

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:17 PM

Do we really expect politicians of any party to design bridges now? This isn't a political issue, it's an engineering one. Let's just turn down the sensationalism and political rhetoric a notch shall we?


Annnnddd...that's two +1's for your today :)
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