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Are you worried about the Canucks' future ?


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#151 oldnews

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 05:03 PM

Ummm i never wrote any of that... you must have copied and pasted to the wrong poster.


apologies - not sure how your name got attached to that post.
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#152 King of the ES

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 05:03 PM

Pullease. Bernier has 6 NHL goals since the Canucks traded the superstar. I like the guy, but get real - trading him sure as hell didn't cost the Canucks a Cup.


By my calculations, that's twice as many goals as Keith Ballard has, since being acquired by the Vancouver Canucks.
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#153 oldnews

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 05:13 PM

Here we go again with the unproven players being hoisted up on the CDC pedestal. Garrison for NOrris!!!!!

How about actually waiting til a player proves something before crowning them king of the world?

Guy hasn't even played 1 minute for us yet lmao


Your ridiculous words - "norris", "king of the world" - not mine.
A player is "unrpoven" until he has played for the Vancouver Canucks...
Derp.
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#154 King of the ES

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 05:14 PM

You don't see a player that has a concussion that prohibits him from even mild workouts for six months as a risk? He hadn't even started skating yet when LA signed him. So yes, LA gambled. Btw, Gillis never even gave Mitchell an offer. He said he would look at making an offer when Mitchell showed he could take contact and he signed with LA before he got to that point.


It is still not nearly as great a risk as what we parted ways with to acquire Keith Ballard.

Risk with Mitchell is nothing but salary out of Francesco's pockets. Rick with Ballard is him sucking, and the players that we traded away turning out to be very good - both of which happened.

Whether Grabner went for Ballard or not doesn't change the fact he wasn't going to be a Canauck come fall. Grabner ran out of time here and would have to clear waivers to go to the farm. Our entire top six just came off a career year. Given Grabners penchant for taking the summer off and showing up to camp in poor shape, there wasn't a snowballs chance in hell he was going to make this team. It was move him or lose him to waivers. No crystal ball needed there. It wasn't a question of Grabner having talent. We all knew that. There was simply no hope of him making the team that fall. Something, anything, is better than nothing. MG was trying to get this team to the cup. The first that went in the deal wasn't going to help us now. A player you're in position to lose and have no spot for, plus a bottom end 1st pick, plus a salary dump for a top four d-man isn't a bad deal.


"Something, anything, is better than nothing". No, not when you're talking about a $4.25M 6th defenceman.

And besides, you're not considering the fact that a lot of other things could've happened with Grabner. Like, I don't know, a trade. To say that we had no choice but to get rid of him because he wouldn't have immediately been on the top-six is ridiculous.

Heck, couldn't they have just manipulated his situational play, and artificially inflated his value, like they did with Cody?

:bigblush:

According to Gillis, Salo was offered similar money to what he signed for in Tampa. He was offered a one year deal with a promise to continue signing him to one year deals as long as he was healthy and wanted to play. The fact Salo wanted nothing less than a two year deal tells me even Salo wasn't willing to gamble on himself staying healthy. Salo's choice.


No, that should tell you solely that Salo's not stupid, and that he's not willing to act out of his best interests to benefit Mike Gillis and the Vancouver Canucks - especially after all that he had done for this franchise. If I'm Salo, I vomit at the fact that the GM "just couldn't" give me 2 years, but he'll go out and give Jason Garrison 6 like it's nothing. Pretty disgusting.
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#155 King of the ES

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 05:19 PM

Quite the assumpton there. Ballard wouldn't have been available 20 games in. The Panthers made him available at the draft to improve their draft. As in available to anybody. The Canucks were one of three teams making offers. When a player is being shopped around you can't say "we'll wait six months" because he's being shopped around the league not to us specifically. And Grabner wouldn't have been here 20 games in as he wouldn't have made the team.


You're making an equal assumption. How do you know that Florida would've accepted any of the other offers? You don't.

And if we were to lose out on Keith Ballard, guess what, somebody else could've been made available, very easily. Trades are allowed, and they don't even need to be at the deadline to occur.
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#156 oldnews

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 05:21 PM

By my calculations, that's twice as many goals as Keith Ballard has, since being acquired by the Vancouver Canucks.


https://www.youtube....e&v=SzRaLobWII8

calculate this.
Game 6 SCF. Score 0-0.
Bernier drills Scuderi from behind.
Three power play goals as Bernier sits in the box for boarding.
It's all over.

I'll add him to your silly list of guys that would deliver a Cup to Vancouver.

Edited by oldnews, 30 December 2012 - 05:26 PM.

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#157 King of the ES

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 05:26 PM

https://www.youtube....e&v=SzRaLobWII8

calculate this.
three power play goals as Bernier sits in the box for boarding.

I'll add him to your silly list of guys that would deliver a Cup to Vancouver.


Wow, you're actually resorting to highlight clips?!?

I actually always liked Bernier, for the most part, and am surprised at how down his career his gone since leaving Vancouver. Must've been purely a contractual issue. Anyway, would he have been more value-adding than Victor Oreskovich was? Almost certainly yes.
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#158 Baggins

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 06:11 PM

You're making an equal assumption. How do you know that Florida would've accepted any of the other offers? You don't.

And if we were to lose out on Keith Ballard, guess what, somebody else could've been made available, very easily. Trades are allowed, and they don't even need to be at the deadline to occur.


Can you say without a doubt that Florida wouldn't have? It was an opportunity. At the time we had know way of knowing Hamhuis would sign here. We needed a top four d-man and one became available. When you're looking for something and it becomes available you try to obtain it. There was no way of knowing Ballard would take so long to recover from his hip surgery. Nor was there any way of knowing he'd suffer several injuries through the season as he didn't have a history of injuries.
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#159 Baggins

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 06:17 PM

By my calculations, that's twice as many goals as Keith Ballard has, since being acquired by the Vancouver Canucks.


Sadly Bernier wouldn't have been competing for Ballards spot. He would have been competing for Hansens spot. Hansen had 25 goals over the past 2 seasons to Berniers 6. Hansen is hands down better. Bernier was a salary dump. Which brings me back to: why even bring him up?
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#160 Gooseberries

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 06:19 PM

Sadly Bernier wouldn't have been competing for Ballards spot. He would have been competing for Hansens spot. Hansen had 25 goals over the past 2 seasons to Berniers 6. Hansen is hands down better. Bernier was a salary dump. Which brings me back to: why even bring him up?

I am so sick of talking about this crap... don't get me wrong your 100% right, I'd just much rather be talkingabout this season that still hasnt started yet
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#161 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 06:42 PM

It is still not nearly as great a risk as what we parted ways with to acquire Keith Ballard.

Risk with Mitchell is nothing but salary out of Francesco's pockets. Rick with Ballard is him sucking, and the players that we traded away turning out to be very good - both of which happened.


"Risk with Ballard is him sucking" Same risk goes for Mitchell, and like he said, there was no guarentee Mitchell would ever play again, so there is alot of risk.

"Something, anything, is better than nothing". No, not when you're talking about a $4.25M 6th defenceman.

And besides, you're not considering the fact that a lot of other things could've happened with Grabner. Like, I don't know, a trade. To say that we had no choice but to get rid of him because he wouldn't have immediately been on the top-six is ridiculous.


:picard: :picard: :picard: ....... what do you think we did? He was expendable asset and we moved him to fill a need, I just don't understand how you can't see why we did it.

What do you propose we had traded him for?

No, that should tell you solely that Salo's not stupid, and that he's not willing to act out of his best interests to benefit Mike Gillis and the Vancouver Canucks - especially after all that he had done for this franchise. If I'm Salo, I vomit at the fact that the GM "just couldn't" give me 2 years, but he'll go out and give Jason Garrison 6 like it's nothing. Pretty disgusting.


Lol yes very disgusting, I guess you can't identfy the differences between Salo and Garrison that make Garrison more valuable, not that you have any skill in judging on ice talent anyways as you have shown with your assessments of Ballard, Brassard, Rodin, Schroeder and Kassian.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 30 December 2012 - 06:45 PM.

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#162 Gollumpus

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 06:45 PM

I actually always liked Bernier, for the most part, and am surprised at how down his career his gone since leaving Vancouver. Must've been purely a contractual issue. Anyway, would he have been more value-adding than Victor Oreskovich was? Almost certainly yes.


I didn't mind Bernier either. I felt his contract was a bit high for what he brought to the table, but then I suppose he still had "potential" so a team pays for that sort of thing. He was paid $500,000 less in his second contract with the Canucks than he had received in his previous contract.

This being said, he was moved in the deal as a salary dump. Why get Oreskovich back in the deal? Well, for two reasons: 1.) he had a cheaper contract; 2.) the Canucks already knew what Bernier had to offer, and it wasn't as promising as they had hoped. Why not try out Oreskovich (at a cheaper price) and maybe they get an upgrade. And if it didn't work out, what was really lost?

I don't see the exchange of Bernier for Oreskovich as being any different than the exchange of Sulzer for Gragnani. The Canucks knew what they had in Sulzer (and I liked him as an AHL'er or call up option), but figured he wasn't going to be that essential a piece to the team's future, so why not move him for an opportunity to take a better look at Gragnani, who had the potential to be useful in filling a team need? If he didn't work out, fine, he could walk and nothing was lost.


regards,
G.
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#163 Gollumpus

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 06:48 PM

If I'm Salo, I vomit at the fact that the GM "just couldn't" give me 2 years, but he'll go out and give Jason Garrison 6 like it's nothing. Pretty disgusting.


Gravol. It's good for a queasy stomach and over-dramatics.

regards,
G.
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Following the Canucks since before Don Cherry played here.

#164 Tearloch7

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 07:00 PM

By my calculations, that's twice as many goals as Keith Ballard has, since being acquired by the Vancouver Canucks.


And 6 more than you ..
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#165 canuck_trevor16

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 07:07 PM

Can the mods just ban King of the ES very annoying and clearly not a canucks fan but a troll just to piss off everyone! the new Shawn Rocket

Edited by canuck_trevor16, 30 December 2012 - 07:08 PM.

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One day some of us will look back on the year and look at the chicago, and most of us will realize that it was a small bump in the road to the cup


WIN THE CUP FOR SALO CAMPAIGN

#166 nuck nit

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 08:15 PM

A player is "unrpoven" until he has played for the Vancouver Canucks...
Derp.

Personally,I don't like seeing other posters being called a "derp" just because they have a point of view that some other super fan thinks is superior to others - or mine.

Anybody should be able to express their opinions here without being negatively labelled to suit some superior poster's opinions of him or her self.
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#167 nuck nit

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 08:22 PM

I don't see the exchange of Bernier for Oreskovich as being any different than the exchange of Sulzer for Gragnani. The Canucks knew what they had in Sulzer (and I liked him as an AHL'er or call up option), but figured he wasn't going to be that essential a piece to the team's future, so why not move him for an opportunity to take a better look at Gragnani, who had the potential to be useful in filling a team need? If he didn't work out, fine, he could walk and nothing was lost.


Last time I looked Bernier and Sulzer were both playing in the NHL.The Canucks.org look like fools in how both of these moves panned out.
When you begin worrying about the Canucks future you should look to small trades like these.
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#168 nuck nit

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 08:24 PM

Six year contracts.Good for GM's that can't figure out what else to do.
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#169 nuck nit

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 08:27 PM

Can the mods just ban King of the ES very annoying and clearly not a canucks fan but a troll just to piss off everyone! the new Shawn Rocket


Are you really a Canucks fan? If I say you are not ,can I have you banned,as well?
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#170 wizeman

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 08:29 PM

I think the Canucks future is great. We have a great team now and a lot of young developing talent. I would say we have riches of young defense men.
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#171 WHL rocks

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 08:46 PM

Can the mods just ban King of the ES very annoying and clearly not a canucks fan but a troll just to piss off everyone! the new Shawn Rocket


boohooo
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#172 WHL rocks

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 08:50 PM

Canucks don't have much as far as prospects go. No high end talent in the system.
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#173 Gollumpus

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 09:14 PM

Last time I looked Bernier and Sulzer were both playing in the NHL.The Canucks.org look like fools in how both of these moves panned out.
When you begin worrying about the Canucks future you should look to small trades like these.


Last time I looked, neither Bernier or Sulzer were that important to the Canucks' franchise during their time here, and were replaced by guys who could perform in a similar manner to these guys, and at a cheaper price. If they were not dealt they may likely have been allowed to walk when their contracts expired, or are you suggesting that these guys would have made all the difference in the Canucks' latest playoff experience?

regards,
G.
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#174 Gollumpus

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 09:23 PM

Canucks don't have much as far as prospects go. No high end talent in the system.


Sadly, this is pretty much true. They have Lack, who's going to be a better than average goalie (likely). Jensen and Kassian will perhaps be 2nd line wingers, and so on. But there isn't a guy (like a Huberdeau and so forth) who is ready to come in and take on the job of being number one.

It sucks doing well during the regular season... :)


regards,
G.
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#175 lowest common denominator

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 09:26 PM

Sadly Bernier wouldn't have been competing for Ballards spot. He would have been competing for Hansens spot. Hansen had 25 goals over the past 2 seasons to Berniers 6. Hansen is hands down better. Bernier was a salary dump. Which brings me back to: why even bring him up?


Looks to me like Ballard was even more of a cap dump. Throw in Grabner and a !st rounder and.....ouch
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#176 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 09:28 PM

Only person that would be worried about Canucks' future than all of us would be Mike Gillis.
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#177 nuck nit

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:17 PM

Last time I looked, neither Bernier or Sulzer were that important to the Canucks' franchise during their time here, and were replaced by guys who could perform in a similar manner to these guys, and at a cheaper price. If they were not dealt they may likely have been allowed to walk when their contracts expired, or are you suggesting that these guys would have made all the difference in the Canucks' latest playoff experience?

regards,
G.


No,I am suggesting that they actually make a viable hockey trade and exchange NHL players for other NHL players.
That would be the best way to improve the club.
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#178 nuck nit

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:43 PM

"Last time I looked, neither Bernier or Sulzer were that important to the Canucks' franchise during their time here, and were replaced by guys who COULD PERFORM IN A SIMLAR MANNER to these guys, and at a cheaper price. .....or are you suggesting that these guys would have made all the difference in the Canucks' latest playoff experience?" regards,G

Sulzer-Buffalo Sabres-15gp 3g,5a
Gragnani-With no intention of re-singing Gragnani the Canucks unsuccessfully attempted to trade him at the 2012 NHL Entry Draft. Unable to move Gragnani Vancouver chose not to give him a qualifying offer.
Gragnani joins Hurricanes for $800,000.00.
http://www.theguardi...ns-Hurricanes/1
Sulzer re-signed by Sabres for $725,000.00.
http://blogs.buffalo...-year-deal.html

Bernier-played with NJ Devils,participating in the 2012 Stanley Cup Final.
Oreskovich-Disappeared off the hockey map.
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#179 oldnews

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 11:27 PM

Personally,I don't like seeing other posters being called a "derp" just because they have a point of view that some other super fan thinks is superior to others - or mine.

Anybody should be able to express their opinions here without being negatively labelled to suit some superior poster's opinions of him or her self.


Nice speech nucknit - but before you wax all self-righteous, the word "derp" is an expression - as in 'huh/duh' - it is not a name that I am calling someone.
When someone initiates a 'conversation' with me in a post the ends with "lmao", responding with "derp" imo is more than fair game. That crap that you alleged, about what a "superior fan thinks", is nothing but a projection of your own. I remember the first post of yours that I read on these boards - you were belittling other posters as if they were 'mere' "7-11" employees. Spare me the allegations of a superiority complex.

I've seen your own standards of etiquette on these boards - I find it difficult to take your self-appointed mini-mod role very seriously.

Edited by oldnews, 30 December 2012 - 11:30 PM.

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#180 nuck nit

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 01:33 AM

I remember the first post of yours that I read on these boards - you were belittling other posters as if they were 'mere' "7-11" employees. Spare me the allegations of a superiority complex.


Derp is actually referring to somebody as being stupid as in denigrating them.
Derp is an expression sometimes used online to signify stupidity....

"Crap","Superior","Allegations"......You have overdone yourself.
I think you should just stick with calling other people stupid and call it a day and a year.

Might want to work on that selective memory process you have going for yourself in the new year.

Edited by nuck nit, 31 December 2012 - 01:40 AM.

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