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Disputing an open liquor ticket


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#1 MillerGenuineDraft

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:26 PM

On Halloween weekend I got an open liquor ticket at a kegger on campus, due to the fact that I did not know one of my friends put there booze in my packback. When the cops came, they asked what was in the bag, and I said I had my an empty box of beers, but no alcohol. When they checked it, there was the empty box, but they found a bottle of vodka underneath.

I got fined $233 for alcohol that I honestly had no idea was there. My friend was speeding 40km above the speed limit and her ticket wasn't even close to the price of my ticket. My little cousin stole a car and crashed it and her fine wasn't even that much.

I'm disputing the price of the ticket, because I really think that it's an unfair price (no need to give me the whole 'its the law' talk, I personally think its an unfair price).

I heard that if the officer who wrote the ticket doesn't show up they drop the charge entirely.

Also, would it be best just to explain my situation- I'm a broke university student who realized he made a mistake and cannot afford to pay the ticket.

Thank you. I hope your Christmas was merry and stuff!
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#2 G-52

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:30 PM

They might do something, but if it was in your backpack closed and under something, It wasn't open.

Where were you?
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#3 Russ

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:40 PM

How was it open if it was in your bag?

40km over the speed limit should also be a loss of car and licence.

Edited by Russ, 26 December 2012 - 12:40 PM.

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#4 Stefan

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:40 PM

I've disputed a ticket before. If the officer doesn't show up, the ticket is dropped, (if you're willing to lie in court).
I still believe you'd have to plead not guilty, but you had the alcohol in your backpack, so that would be a lie.
At any rate, when I disputed mine the cop did show up but the judge reduced the sentence on the grounds that I "learned my lesson", which was trash.

Edited by hockeyville88, 26 December 2012 - 02:33 PM.

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#5 :D

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:43 PM

Why did you have an empty box of beers in your backpack?
I'd take your side on this, but it seems fishy.
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#6 G-52

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:44 PM

I've disputed a ticket before. If the officer doesn't show up, the ticket is dropped, (if you're willing to lie in court).
I still believe you'd have to plead not guilty, but you had the alcohol in your backpack, so that would be a lie.
At any rate, when I disputed mine the cop did show up but the judge reduced the sentence on the grounds that I "learned my lesson", which was trash.


...

Edited by hockeyville88, 26 December 2012 - 02:34 PM.

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#7 MillerGenuineDraft

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:49 PM

They might do something, but if it was in your backpack closed and under something, It wasn't open.

Where were you?


I was at a kegger at UBC and the cops came.

How was it open if it was in your bag?

40km over the speed limit should also be a loss of car and licence.


The officer (who was a female) asked me what was in my bag. I said there's no alcohol if that's what she was implying. She asked if she could see, I didn't see why not because I thought I had finished all my beers. Underneath the box was a 26 of vodka, that had been cracked open already. She wrote me up because I tried "lying to her." The two male cops beside her, however, were being so nice to me.

in b4 wetcoaster makes a 15,000 word essay on this.

I've disputed a ticket before. If the officer doesn't show up, the ticket is dropped, (if you're willing to lie in court).
I still believe you'd have to plead not guilty, but you had the alcohol in your backpack, so that would be a lie.
At any rate, when I disputed mine the cop did show up but the judge reduced the sentence on the grounds that I "learned my lesson", which was trash.


Thanks for this!

Why did you have an empty box of beers in your backpack?
I'd take your side on this, but it seems fishy.


I had a box for a 12 pack of heineken in my bag. I finished the beers, the box happened to be in my bag. Underneath the box was a 26 of vodka that had already been cracked open.
Hope that clarifies for you.


Edit:
I even told her it wasn't mine. She didn't believe it. I said there's not way in hell I could drink a 26 and a 12 pack in one night. She did not believe it.

Edited by MillerGenuineDraft, 26 December 2012 - 12:50 PM.

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#8 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:55 PM

Yeah, just show up and start crying about how you can't afford the ticket. Best case: Poof! No ticket. Worst case you get a ton of time to pay it off.

Frankly, the cops should have no right to go into your backback in the first place.
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#9 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:56 PM

Excessive speeding tickets are serious business. You get your vehicle impounded. and worse you'll get a 3 year birthday gift from the government via ICBC of $320 bill. (It's called a Driver's Risk Premium)

I agree with with Russ you should get your license suspended for that. To translate that. If you're going 40 over the limit. If there's an animal that jumps out in front of you like a deer or moose, you won't be able to stop in time, and you'd be lucky to avoid it.

Everyone speeds, I get that. But 40 over? Sorry not too much latitude I'd give there.

As for your open liquor ticket. I'm sorry it's your backpack, you choose what gets put inside. What's your friends doing putting stuff in it? Normally cops will confiscate it and that's the end of it. Just because your friend put it in there, shows a lack of responsibility in my view. Too many people point fingers at the other guy, and don't take responsibility themselves. Learn from it and carry on.

As for search and seizure:

http://en.wikipedia....ts_and_Freedoms

That's the quick version.

I'm sure Wet can give you the full legal version of what's a reasonable search and what is not.
You can pick up a copy of the Martin's Pocket Criminal Code at places like the Justice Institute if you're really curious. Or online at sites like:

http://www.efc.ca/pages/law/cc/cc.html

http://laws-lois.jus...ge-15.html#h-39

Edited by Ghostsof1915, 26 December 2012 - 01:14 PM.

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#10 MillerGenuineDraft

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 12:59 PM

Excessive speeding tickets are serious business. You get your vehicle impounded. and worse you'll get a 3 year birthday gift from the government via ICBC of $320 bill. (It's called a Driver's Risk Premium)

I agree with with Russ you should get your license suspended for that. To translate that. If you're going 40 over the limit. If there's an animal that jumps out in front of you like a deer or moose, you won't be able to stop in time, and you'd be lucky to avoid it.

Everyone speeds, I get that. But 40 over? Sorry not too much latitude I'd give there.

As for your open liquor ticket. I'm sorry it's your backpack, you choose what gets put inside. What's your friends doing putting stuff in it? Normally cops will confiscate it and that's the end of it. Just because your friend put it in there, shows a lack of responsibility in my view. Too many people point fingers at the other guy, and don't take responsibility themselves. Learn from it and carry on.


As much as I appreciate that. You clearly neglected my take on this. It's obvious it's my backpack, therefore my fault.

I am disputing NOT disputing the offence my friend. I am disputing the PRICE of the offence. There is a major different between the two bud.

Edit:
If you read my first post (it's unedited fyi), you'd see that I said I think the price is unfair. I even stated at the end I said what I did was wrong. I never pointed fingers at anyone, nor did I say I'm not responsible. I know life sucks at times. I'm simply disputing the ticket price.

Edited by MillerGenuineDraft, 26 December 2012 - 01:01 PM.

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#11 Denguin

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:02 PM

Learn your lesson and next time don't give consent to search your person or any of your property. Just state you don't consent to searches, and if there is no reasonable means to have searched you in the first place, any evidence is in admissible in court.

Now the fact that you admitted to having alcohol containers probably didn't help, or the fact that you were at a kegger... But next time just break off the confrontation if you can.

Dealing with the cops 101.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Wetcoaster.



Edit: And if you have the alcohol stowed away in the bag, why is that considered open? Something tells me you're not telling us everything.

Edit 2: Just did some research and it says that it is indeed considered "open" even if in a backpack.

Edited by Denguin, 26 December 2012 - 01:08 PM.

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#12 n00bxQb

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:07 PM

If your friend put the bottle of liquor in, he/she isn't much of a friend if he/she doesn't split the ticket with you. Just saying.
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#13 MillerGenuineDraft

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:07 PM

Learn your lesson and next time don't give consent to search your person or any of your property. Just state you don't consent to searches, and if there is no reasonable means to have searched you in the first place, any evidence is in admissible in court.

Now the fact that you admitted to having alcohol containers probably didn't help, or the fact that you were at a kegger... But next time just break off the confrontation if you can.

Dealing with the cops 101.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Wetcoaster.



Edit: And if you have the alcohol stowed away in the bag, why is that considered open? Something tells me you're not telling us everything.


The bottle was already cracked open. That was the reasoning if I'm not mistaken.
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#14 Lockout Casualty

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:10 PM

Learn your lesson and next time don't give consent to search your person or any of your property. Just state you don't consent to searches, and if there is no reasonable means to have searched you in the first place, any evidence is in admissible in court.

Now the fact that you admitted to having alcohol containers probably didn't help, or the fact that you were at a kegger... But next time just break off the confrontation if you can.

Dealing with the cops 101.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Wetcoaster.



Edit: And if you have the alcohol stowed away in the bag, why is that considered open? Something tells me you're not telling us everything.

Edit 2: Just did some research and it says that it is indeed considered "open" even if in a backpack.


Canada has some absurd liquor laws. You're basically not allowed to open a bottle at home, then two days later take it with you outside the house.

I don't know how BC laws can be considered normal.

Edited by Lockout Casualty, 26 December 2012 - 01:14 PM.

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#15 Denguin

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:13 PM

The bottle was already cracked open. That was the reasoning if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah I just looked it up real quick... Pretty much any open container no matter how well concealed is illegal anywhere outside of private property.

Thank god for this thread, I've been doin' it wrong the whole time!
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#16 MillerGenuineDraft

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:14 PM

Edit 2: Just did some research and it says that it is indeed considered "open" even if in a backpack.


That would explain a lot to people in this thread then.

I found this on google, it's similar to my situation.

Third paragraph
http://www.ontariohi.../topic4330.html

Edit: Ignore that above statement. Totally different situation.


What should I say when I go to dispute the price then?

I don't want to commit perjury. It's unethical and all that stuff.

Edited by MillerGenuineDraft, 26 December 2012 - 01:16 PM.

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#17 goalie13

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:15 PM

As much as I appreciate that. You clearly neglected my take on this. It's obvious it's my backpack, therefore my fault.

I am disputing NOT disputing the offence my friend. I am disputing the PRICE of the offence. There is a major different between the two bud.

Edit:
If you read my first post (it's unedited fyi), you'd see that I said I think the price is unfair. I even stated at the end I said what I did was wrong. I never pointed fingers at anyone, nor did I say I'm not responsible. I know life sucks at times. I'm simply disputing the ticket price.


I know you said not to argue that it's the law, but it's the law. I don't know if the judge would have the leeway to reduce the amount based on your opinion that it's an unfair amount.

I have heard of judges being able to reduce a fine due to the defendant's ability to pay or other relevant circumstances, but I've never heard of them reducing it simply based on whether it is a fair amount.

Good luck to you though. I would love to hear how that turns out.
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#18 Denguin

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:18 PM

That would explain a lot to people in this thread then.

I found this on google, it's similar to my situation.

Third paragraph
http://www.ontariohi.../topic4330.html

That has to do with the liquor being within the "driver's reach", not physically the open container itself. I presume the following is effective even if the liquor is concealed in a backpack. As far as I can tell, you have no legal defence. Like I said, next time, just don't consent to the search in the first place, and don't give them a reason to believe you're doing something illegal. I know you didn't know about your friend putting alcohol in, but it's all about risk management... There are always unknown variables and 'what if's in the situation. For example, a traffic stop... don't ever consent to a search. If they find a bit of weed on the seat that fell out of your friend's pocket when you gave him a ride last week, you take the fall for that.

http://www.bclaws.ca...ide/00_96267_01


BC Law states:


Consumption of liquor in public

40 (1) Except for liquor purchased and consumed in accordance with a licence that permits consumption in a public place, a person must not, in a public place, consume liquor or possess liquor in an open container.

(2) Despite subsection (1), but subject to terms and conditions approved by the general manager not inconsistent with this Act and the regulations, a public beach, public park or public campground, or part of it, may be designated by

(a) an order of the government of Canada or of British Columbia, or

( B) a bylaw of a municipality or regional district

having jurisdiction over it as a place where liquor may be consumed.

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to a place designated under subsection (2).

(4) This section does not affect section 41, and subsection (2) does not apply to an offence under section 48 (1) in respect of a contravention of section 41.


Edited by Denguin, 26 December 2012 - 01:22 PM.

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#19 MillerGenuineDraft

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:21 PM

Alright thanks for the info. I'll bump this thread when it happens and let you know what goes down.

Cheers! (Not in public though, I've learned my lesson)
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#20 Denguin

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:24 PM

Alright thanks for the info. I'll bump this thread when it happens and let you know what goes down.

Cheers! (Not in public though, I've learned my lesson)

Good luck! Could've happened to any one of us... I was unaware that concealing it in a backpack was illegal as well up until this morning!

A reduction in the fine I'm sure is a pretty realistic thing to shoot for.
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#21 :D

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:29 PM

Just ignore his idiocy.


Wetcoaster is a bit starchy, but I'd hardly say he posts idiocy...
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#22 Common sense

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 04:34 PM

Learn your lesson and next time don't give consent to search your person or any of your property. Just state you don't consent to searches, and if there is no reasonable means to have searched you in the first place, any evidence is in admissible in court.


Simple as that. Unless the cop has beyond reasonable doubt that you're hiding something or you consent, there's no right to look through your personal belongings.
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#23 nux4lyfe

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 05:41 PM

It's a simple situation, I assume you already disputed the ticket. ...go there and hope the cop doesn't show and you'll be good to go..If She does, explain your situation like on here, you didn't know about it blah blah, and truthfully having a bottle in your bag is not considered open liquor in public..she was just being a ????...tell the judge your a uni student and tell him/her what your studying and how money is tight blah blah and I guarantee the judge will lessen the fine.
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#24 surtur

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 05:45 PM

on campus as in a dorm? or in a public place?
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#25 Wetcoaster

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 05:52 PM

on campus as in a dorm? or in a public place?

In BC under the LIQUOR CONTROL AND LICENSING ACT [RSBC 1996] CHAPTER 267


"public place" includes

(a) a place, building, passenger conveyance, boat or land to which the public resort or are permitted access, and
(b) a motor vehicle located on land to which the public resort or are permitted access;
...


"residence" means

(a) a building or part of it, or a trailer, camper, manufactured home, tent or vessel that is genuinely and actually occupied and used by the owner, lessee or tenant solely as a
(i) private dwelling,
(ii) private guest room in a hotel, motel, auto court, lodging house, boarding house or club, or
(iii) private summer dwelling, or a private dwelling or living place used during vacation periods or a private lodge, or
(b) a building or part of it designated by the general manager in a permit or other document as a private dwelling,
together with the land appurtenant to it that is essential or appropriate for the convenient use, occupation and enjoyment of a private dwelling or private summer dwelling;
http://www.bclaws.ca...267_01#section1

Of course a university/college could have its own rules regarding liquor in a dorm room.


Edited by Wetcoaster, 26 December 2012 - 05:53 PM.

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#26 CanucksSayEh

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 07:03 PM

So it is illegal to transport any bottle of alcohol that has been previously opened? I had some friends get tickets for the same thing walking around the street in whistler. Not drunk, not currently drinking, just had a half empty bottle in their bag or purse and were moving it from one house to another. Are we supposed to finish the bottle dry before stepping outside or leave it behind?

Edited by CanucksSayEh, 26 December 2012 - 07:19 PM.

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#27 Connauton

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 07:14 PM

Was this in the fraternity village?
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#28 WHL rocks

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 07:38 PM

Good luck, I don't know how you can win. You did have an open bottle in your bag and you did give them permission to search.

But $233?? That's weird. I got an open liquor ticket once. I was also a passenger in a car and we had open liquor in the back. We all got tickets and I think it was around $50 bucks. This was over a decade ago, maybe 15 years can't really remember. but $233 doesn't seem right.

btw, tell your friend to slow the frack down. 40 km/h over?? ridiculous.
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