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Past Canuck Talent Tearin' it up?


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#1 whytelight

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 04:37 PM

I've many posts regarding MG, AV, and the Wolves. I've read many threads that point to the issue of our talent:

1) being traded away
2) under developed
3) not allowed to flourish
4) etc..

There are thousands of players out there playing for many different coaches. I believe that the coach does know what is best and the players job is to listen, learn, and develop their skills under their current coach. AV does the best he can with what he has.

Anyway, are there any examples of past Canuck players tearing it up in the NHL or other leagues? I'm looking for examples like "...darn, I wish we didn't trade him....look at his 80pts now!!!..." or "...too bad he was picked up when we sent him on waivers..cause he has 12pts in 15 games with the..." or "....boy, after he signed as a UFA with the *******, his post season production really helped them in the playoffs..."

Can you think of any players? Only one I can think of is Cam Neely...... and, maybe Trevor Linden.

Thoughts?
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#2 Bilbro Baggins

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 04:39 PM

I hear Patrick White is destroying some beer league in Germany
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#3 VIC_CITY

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 04:46 PM

Josh Holden is playing for Canada at the Spengler Cup. He's a point per game player in the Swiss League:

http://www.hockeydb....y.php?pid=19307
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#4 G-52

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 04:48 PM

Swiss league is easier than the AHL.
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#5 Tony Romo

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 05:14 PM

Michael grabner
Willie Mitchell

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#6 ajhockey

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 05:14 PM

Cody Hodgson?? :bigblush:
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#7 nuck nit

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 05:22 PM

1) being traded away
2) under developed
3) not allowed to flourish
4) etc..

Start with Shirokov.'Not allowed to flourish' best suits him.
Then go with Cody.All four fit his profile.
Grabner fits into all four categories.

Wellwood,Raffi and Sulzer all did well last season.

Tearing it up?Bure and Neely HHOF inductees say good bye.
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#8 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 05:52 PM

In hindsight letting Shirokov go for nothing is one of the few things I'm not happy about, other than that I think we have been making the right moves with who we let go and who we sign. So I really don't have much of an issue with the rest, letting Mitchell go and picking up Hamhuis was a great move for us (Even though Willie was great in LA) and the jury is still out on the Ballard trade IMO (Since Grabner struggled and Ballard improved) So I don't really have any problems with those moves.
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#9 playboi19

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 06:05 PM

1) being traded away
2) under developed
3) not allowed to flourish
4) etc..

Start with Shirokov.'Not allowed to flourish' best suits him.
Then go with Cody.All four fit his profile.
Grabner fits into all four categories.

Wellwood,Raffi and Sulzer all did well last season.

Tearing it up?Bure and Neely HHOF inductees say good bye.

Grabner, Shirokov, Cody. Soft, Soft, Soft.
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#10 whytelight

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 06:16 PM

With the Grabner issue, what was it about OUR team at that point that did not allow him to flourish? I agree on Mitchell...would great to have him in addition to our current D core....but, it's hockey.

Torres would still be good to have as well, IMO
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#11 Jägermeister

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 06:18 PM

Jan Bulis is a force to be reckoned with in the KHL.
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#12 iLLmAtlc

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 06:31 PM

I really don't think Willie belongs in these conversations. At the time, there were pretty significant questions about him coming off the concussion, and most people seem to think a 1 year deal for about 1.5-2million would be reasonable, and I agreed. Willie made it very clear that his first priority was to goto a Stanley Cup contender, but he turned down both Washington and Detroit to goto LA, most likely because LA blew him away with a 2 year 7 million dollar deal that no other club was willing to offer. So in that way Vancouver didn't let him go so much as he chose LA.
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#13 SamJamIam

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 06:34 PM

With the Grabner issue, what was it about OUR team at that point that did not allow him to flourish? I agree on Mitchell...would great to have him in addition to our current D core....but, it's hockey.

Torres would still be good to have as well, IMO


Mitchell would be nice but we only get one of Hammer or Mitchell. I'd choose Hammer every time.

Torres was a good force to have on the ice but any guy that gets put on our 3rd line when no one else wanted him, then expects a raise right away isn't gonna stick around long. He also had locker room issues and only really seemed to connect with other guys who were on their way out (Glass, Samuelsson). So, much as I liked him on the ice, those relationships are also important if they fester.

Only other guy I miss is Ehrhoff, not because he's tearing it up now but because he was a perfect piece for us. Just a case of right guy on the right team. He was unpredictable and really had a visible effect on the Sedins by always doing things differently. Not an irreplaceable skill but not having that wild card element has had an effect on our offense. It's too bad that he mistook his being a great match for our team to mean that he was individually amazing and should take a payday over continuing his high level of play but we can't know his reasons fully.
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#14 bossram

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 06:52 PM

I disagree with Hodgson not being able to flourish. Last season he was given every opportunity to put up points and as a result had a successful campaign. Now Shirokov is someone who was simply not given an opportunity, even when he performed well.

Letting go of Grabner was a mistake as well. Everyone could see the talent. He had the speed and a Naslundian wrist shot. I called that he would be a 30 goal scorer and he did just that. However I assume it would have been Vancouver's choice of Raymond or Grabner in the Ballard trade (which was the REAL mistake here) and with Raymond coming off a 25 goal season at the time Grabner was the obviouse choice.

I would have liked to retain Torres. If we had matched Phoenix's offer - which I think was not really steep at all - he would have stayed in Vancouver. I liked his grit and ability to change a game with a big hit or goal. And he was a major contributor in the Cup run and is one of those guys that can go on a crazy streak at the right time. Of course he always under controversy and that came under consideration.

Even if Gillis didn't want to do a massively front-loaded contract, he should have done it for Ehrhoff. Plain and simple. He fit our team like a glove, was a major catalyst for a lethal powerplay and would have helped us much more right NOW, which is our window for the Cup. The 4 million cap hit is very reasonable until he's around 35, 36 and by then our window will be closed and Gillis will likely be gone anyway and not have to deal with it. Just ditch Ballard any way possible for cap space.
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What is the deal with Mike Gillis, it always seems like he's sweating...

#15 bossram

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 06:53 PM

I disagree with Hodgson not being able to flourish. Last season he was given every opportunity to put up points and as a result had a successful campaign. Now Shirokov is someone who was simply not given an opportunity, even when he performed well.

Letting go of Grabner was a mistake as well. Everyone could see the talent. He had the speed and a Naslundian wrist shot. I called that he would be a 30 goal scorer and he did just that. However I assume it would have been Vancouver's choice of Raymond or Grabner in the Ballard trade (which was the REAL mistake here) and with Raymond coming off a 25 goal season at the time Grabner was the obviouse choice.

I would have liked to retain Torres. If we had matched Phoenix's offer - which I think was not really steep at all - he would have stayed in Vancouver. I liked his grit and ability to change a game with a big hit or goal. And he was a major contributor in the Cup run and is one of those guys that can go on a crazy streak at the right time. Of course he is always under controversy and that came under consideration.

Even if Gillis didn't want to do a massively front-loaded contract, he should have done it for Ehrhoff. Plain and simple. He fit our team like a glove, was a major catalyst for a lethal powerplay and would have helped us much more right NOW, which is our window for the Cup. The 4 million cap hit is very reasonable until he's around 35, 36 and by then our window will be closed and Gillis will likely be gone anyway and not have to deal with it. Just ditch Ballard any way possible for cap space.


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What is the deal with Mike Gillis, it always seems like he's sweating...

#16 shawn antoski

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 08:55 PM

Mitchell would be nice but we only get one of Hammer or Mitchell. I'd choose Hammer every time.

Torres was a good force to have on the ice but any guy that gets put on our 3rd line when no one else wanted him, then expects a raise right away isn't gonna stick around long. He also had locker room issues and only really seemed to connect with other guys who were on their way out (Glass, Samuelsson). So, much as I liked him on the ice, those relationships are also important if they fester.

Only other guy I miss is Ehrhoff, not because he's tearing it up now but because he was a perfect piece for us. Just a case of right guy on the right team. He was unpredictable and really had a visible effect on the Sedins by always doing things differently. Not an irreplaceable skill but not having that wild card element has had an effect on our offense. It's too bad that he mistook his being a great match for our team to mean that he was individually amazing and should take a payday over continuing his high level of play but we can't know his reasons fully.


hamuis????? nah it was more like the ballard deal made willi expendable
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#17 canuktravella

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:31 AM

shirokov should have been given a chance only game he played on canucks he was hungry and out worked dmen for that goal one of the reasons why i think a/v is a crapty coach never gives rookies a fair shake the day a/v is fired i will be so happy
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#18 jigsaw99

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 06:13 AM

Josh Holden is playing for Canada at the Spengler Cup. He's a point per game player in the Swiss League:

http://www.hockeydb....y.php?pid=19307


Biron "AV's PP quarterback" Richie is also tearing it up in that league and repping canada in Spengler.



On other note Alex Bolduc is leading his AHL team in scoring.
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#19 jigsaw99

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 06:15 AM

shirokov should have been given a chance only game he played on canucks he was hungry and out worked dmen for that goal one of the reasons why i think a/v is a crapty coach never gives rookies a fair shake the day a/v is fired i will be so happy

AV benched in after the first period the next game after he got first star. He didn't even play bad he just gets benched for not reason and he never played him again.

Game for Grabner when he gets a hattrick and gets rewarded with like 6 min a game next game.
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#20 Boudrias

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:45 AM

Adrian Accoin should have been part of the Van defence through his career.
Bobby Smaultz.
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#21 smokes

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:40 AM

Not necessarily tearing it up but Brian McCabe got better after he left the Canucks.

Grabner had a race for the Calder in NYI but I honestly think it was more about being forced to play more minutes and assume a big role. He's a star on a bottom feeding team and could not crack the line up of the President's trophy team.

One thing I have noticed though...

Many players who leave the Canucks end up declining in production with thier new teams:

Linden, Bure, Bertuzzi, Morrison, Naslund, Erhoff,
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#22 D-Money

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 10:46 AM

Hodgson hasn't been tearin' much up since he left, other than the Buffalo Sabres' playoff hopes and his right hand.
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#23 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 11:45 AM

-Peter Schaeffer had 2-3 decent seasons for Ottawa. But we got Salo in return.
-Andrew Cassels went on to do stuff for Columbus. Lost as UFA. Might've helped us to keep him for another year.
-Trent Klatt lost as UFA. Played one alright season in LA then retired after the lockout. He wanted a multi-year deal.
-Same with Murray Baron. Played one season in StL then retired after the lockout.
-Chubarov was lost to the Russians. Again, wanted a bit too much for the tight Canucks. He had a few good seasons over there.

These are all from awhile ago.
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#24 D.Doughty

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 11:47 AM

Anson Carter
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#25 SeaBass

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 12:20 PM

One that always bugs me is Cliff Ronning. He was a great second line center for years after we let him walk in free agency. Hometown guy too. Geoff Courtnall had many productive seasons after he left.
Don't forget Rick Vaive. Had a couple of 50 goal seasons.
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#26 VicNuckleHead09

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 12:44 PM

Wow, this turned into a "Cody" Thread fast... :picard:

Mike Peca - Although for Mogilny this was a way to give up on a great player that they would need in later years

Geoff Sanderson- Speed kills defences, Good player for years to come

Edited by VicNuckleHead09, 27 December 2012 - 12:44 PM.

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#27 D-Money

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 12:48 PM

One that always bugs me is Cliff Ronning.  He was a great second line center for years after we let him walk in free agency.  Hometown guy too.


Seconded. Him and Mogilny were magic together.

That was one of the big problems with the Canucks in the late-90's. They had the snipers (Bure, Mogilny, Messier...to a lesser extent), but had shed all the playmakers - the "glue guys" who kept it all together.

Funny...we're kind of in the opposite position now. Lots of playmakers, and success - but adding a true sniper or two could really make the current Canucks even more dominant.

Edited by D-Money, 27 December 2012 - 12:50 PM.

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#28 dorrcoq

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 01:56 PM

Pretty hard to link "Past Canuck TALENT" and "Grabner" together. Past Canuck PROPERTY, yes.
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#29 Silfverberg Snipes

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:06 PM

Pretty hard to link "Past Canuck TALENT" and "Grabner" together. Past Canuck PROPERTY, yes.


Are you insinuating that Grabner did not have talent? :picard:
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Sig too big. 

 


#30 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:00 PM

Players that Canucks fans might have missed:

-Matt Cooke scored a career-high 19 goals last season. Matt Pettinger? Ugh.
-Wellwood has done alright since leaving, but if he wasn't an ex-Leaf and ex-Canuck, nobody would cover him.
-Grabner has done well for the Islanders, earning a multi-year deal.
-Willie Mitchell won the cup last season. With his noggin' fixed up, he proved to be very valuable for them for when LA was granted their cup run.
-Christian Ehrhoff had an 'alright' season for Buffalo, but is hardly worth the money he earned.
-Torres and Glass were also 'alright' for their new clubs. Glass is now is Pittsburgh while Torres is suspended forever?
-Hodgson has 1g, 12a in 13gp for the Amerks. Skilled, but fairly injury-prone.

Since everything else has panned out so far, the big question is of course will we miss Cody Hodgson? And there is much debate about that. He could do fairly well post-lockout on a team like Buffalo's, which typically used a 4-line attack and an inflated powerplay for their big post-2005 lockout seasons. But is he star material, let lone a legit #1 center? Not sure.


Players we don't:

-Naslund, Morrison, Ritchie, Isbister, and Ryan Shannon all didn't do much after the Canucks lost them.
-Jeff Cowan hasn't done much since his 6-game Brabarian stint with the Sedins.
-Ohlund played one season with Tampa and has been injured since.
-Mathieu Schneider hasn't done much since being dumped.
-Steve Bernier went to the finals last season in NJ as a 4th liner. He took a 5-minute penalty to end that series for them, but was re-signed.
-Darcy Hordichuk and Shane O'Brien, career nothings, went on to become nothings with their new clubs.
-Shirokov currently has 3g, 3a in 18gp for CSKA Moscow.
-Samuelsson and Sturm were injured most of last season. Sammy is now back in Detroit where he can float around while Sturm is likely done.
-Byron Bitz. Not sure what he's doing now.
-Pahlsson has played just one game for Modo this season.
-Gragnani has 14pts, -3 in 20gp for the Checkers. Speedy, but insanely useless, defensively.
-Duco? Where is he?
-Oreskovich? Where is he?
-Rome is getting ready to be a Dallas Star.
-Eric Walsky. Remember him? Swiss league. Injured.
-And Sami Salo joins Ohlund in TB. The lockout hurts him. He may not have much gas left in the tank.
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