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#31 OFFSIDEsports

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:13 PM

Was the NHL ever going to be as popular as the NBA in the US, Bettman or no Bettman? Hell no. If you believe that, you need to stop. Even though the typical basketball head for Bettman has become a bit of a trademark i see, it doesn't really mean anything other than Bettman once worked as Stern's assistant. Whoopee.


The Basketball imprint I always put on Bettman's head is my way of saying he knows nothing about the NHL, that he has a head for basketball and not hockey. Obviously I'm not serious when I say that Stern sent Bettman to scuttle the NHL... could it have been more popular than the NBA? Hard to say really... they're both marketed completely differently BUT, a work stoppage RIGHT after what is widely considered, the greatest Stanley Cup final series in the largest media market in North America certainly didn't help.

Going the opposite route could have given it a more serious foothold. The fact that the NHL is now losing ground to the MLS is testament to how abysmal Bettman has been at growing the game. 2 decades of mismanagement, a failed southern expansion ideology and an out and out war with the NHLPA is enough... it's time for new leadership (I'd say SOME leadership), a new vision and some new blood. Here's hoping Daly isn't the next in line... lets bring in a business savvy hockey lover this time.

I for one am hoping it's John Collins ( http://en.wikipedia....orts_executive) the guy who spearheaded the Winter Classic, was the lead negotiator on the new NBC Sports deal etc.). He's done more for the NHL in 4 years than Bettman has done in 2 decades.
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#32 OFFSIDEsports

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:20 PM

Arrghh... here's hoping he stays:

http://sports.yahoo...._medium=twitter
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#33 pimpcurtly

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 10:48 AM

Great pic! Also agree with your side of the argument, OP. It baffles me how anyone, of sound mind, could invest hundreds of millions of dollars into a hockey franchise in a city where no one gives a frack about hockey. Have they never heard of market research? And then they get all upset when they are losing millions each year, well what the hell did you think would happen?!?!
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#34 OFFSIDEsports

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:33 PM

Great pic! Also agree with your side of the argument, OP. It baffles me how anyone, of sound mind, could invest hundreds of millions of dollars into a hockey franchise in a city where no one gives a frack about hockey. Have they never heard of market research? And then they get all upset when they are losing millions each year, well what the hell did you think would happen?!?!


Thanks!
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#35 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 03:05 PM

It's not that. It's that some franchises can move into better markets while others cannot. Phoenix was a mistake, yes. But outside of that, what? Columbus could do better.

But Tampa and Carolina are doing fine. Florida is improving. Nashville has rabid fans now. San Jose is a huge success. Anaheim and Dallas have won cups.

Meanwhile, 'established hockey markets' Buffalo, Ottawa, Edmonton, Calgary, NYI and even Pittsburgh were all on the brink of losing their teams before the last lockout.

I think Bettman's ability to grow the game has been underrated. It's not that which bothers me.

What bothers me now is the owners and players not being able to come to a resolution this time even though with profits high there is not enough reasons to justify a contract dispute. The selfishness and greed on both sides is deplorable. And i think it's time for fans to hold them accountable this time.

Loyal fans have been subsidizing the growth of the game for decades and we've been rewarded with three lockouts. For that, they should pay a toll. Not a penny to the NHL for a long, long time. There are multiple ways to view the product for free.
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#36 OFFSIDEsports

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 03:59 PM

It's not that. It's that some franchises can move into better markets while others cannot. Phoenix was a mistake, yes. But outside of that, what? Columbus could do better.

But Tampa and Carolina are doing fine. Florida is improving. Nashville has rabid fans now. San Jose is a huge success. Anaheim and Dallas have won cups.


Let me see...


Problems run long and deep. Check the record since the NHL’s last lockout in 2004-05. League-wide revenue is up about 50% to over $3 billion. But 83% of the profits go to three teams. Almost half the 30 clubs lost money last season.


http://www.forbes.co...pe-contraction/


Meanwhile, 'established hockey markets' Buffalo, Ottawa, Edmonton, Calgary, NYI and even Pittsburgh were all on the brink of losing their teams before the last lockout.

I think Bettman's ability to grow the game has been underrated. It's not that which bothers me.


Bettman's biggest issue and THE reason he was brought in is his inability to diversify (read get a sustained/viable/financially beneficial US TV contract) the leagues income streams. They were gate driven 20 years ago and they still are. It is a MASSIVE issue especially for emerging/new markets. They have absolutely no cushion (except for their own pockets) to weather any growth within their markets. He has swindled countless owners into this model and (Moyes etc.) left them to hang out and dry once they realize that all he wanted was their expansion money.

Sure... if you count base numbers of clubs, he's grown the game BUT his 'model' and inability to create any sustained momentum/credibility within the US has set it up for a MASSIVE correction, one that could see the undoing on almost every Southern expansion team he brought in.

To quote the above article again:

The 21st century hockey industry basically mirrors the 19th century railroad industry: too much capacity. And just as some modern politicians are intent on investing in high speed rail that no one wants to ride, the modern NHL has pushed out more hockey across the country than people want to see. The most obvious example is the Sunbelt strategy – a concept that pre-dates Bettman – that’s moved teams into Florida, Arizona, North Carolina and California. The plan has failed. So has expansion into other non-traditional markets like Nashville and Columbus. Three teams in the New York area seems like overkill, too, given that only one is enjoying much financial success.
With the exception of the L.A. Kings, who get by on the sheer size of their market, “The Sunbelt teams just have no significant ticket revenue and no significant television revenue,” says Noll.



What bothers me now is the owners and players not being able to come to a resolution this time even though with profits high there is not enough reasons to justify a contract dispute. The selfishness and greed on both sides is deplorable. And i think it's time for fans to hold them accountable this time.


Ummm... the players were locked-out and the first offer was to slash their revenue take from 57% -> 43%. What would you do if you were locked out and the only way they'd let you back in is if you took a 14% paycut? Who's greedy? Again... take the sums out of the equation and just look at it as an employer/employee relationship and then consider that it's the employees that are the reason any of these teams make any money. Bettman and the owners made the decisions to make this happen because they saw the NBA and NFL do it... period. They wanted more, period.

Any financial issues the league has and is trying to cover up with this new CBA are Bettman's making and the players are tired of paying for his cover-ups.


Loyal fans have been subsidizing the growth of the game for decades and we've been rewarded with three lockouts. For that, they should pay a toll. Not a penny to the NHL for a long, long time. There are multiple ways to view the product for free.



Totally agree with this point... as long as Bettman is involved with this league I'll not spend another dime on it.
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#37 nuck nit

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 04:07 PM

Finally,somebody that defines the reality in concise terms.
I am waiting for Baggins to join in here and get his opinionated directives slashed to the level of reality.

"Ummm... the players were locked-out and the first offer was to slash their revenue take from 57% -> 43%. What would you do if you were locked out and the only way they'd let you back in is if you took a 14% paycut? Who's greedy? Again... take the sums out of the equation and just look at it as an employer/employee relationship and then consider that it's the employees that are the reason any of these teams make any money. Bettman and the owners made the decisions to make this happen because they saw the NBA and NFL do it... period. They wanted more, period.

Any financial issues the league has and is trying to cover up with this new CBA are Bettman's making and the players are tired of paying for his cover-ups." OFFSIDEsports

Right on!
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#38 OFFSIDEsports

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 04:26 PM

Here's my JAB that sums up, even more concisely, my thoughts on the matter:

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Edited by OFFSIDEsports, 29 December 2012 - 04:27 PM.

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#39 Kryten

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 04:29 PM

I don't like Bettman because he is a scumbag lawyer who employed ex-Republican spindoctor Frank Luntz. If he were an ex-nhler and not a professional liar who has hired professional liars, I might be more inclined to give veracity to the statements he makes concerning the lockout. Sure the owners suck for hiring him, but that doesn't absolve him of my disdain, he is who he is whether he works for them or not.
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#40 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 04:51 PM

Again the same could be said of any industry. If the employees price themselves to the point the owner is losing money, the employees will eventually lose their jobs. The players don't care half the owners are losing money. Yet they don't want teams, and the jobs that go with them, to fold.

I've said this several times, Bettman isn't the problem, it's the "have bucks" owners that are the problem. The have teams set player market value that the have not teams can't afford. So they shutdown for a year to get a salary cap to create a level playing field which worked for a while. Then the have teams search for ways to circumvent the cap and come up with "till death do us part" deals that end with cap reducers that won't be paid or played. And again the have not teams are faced with salaries they can't afford or simply cannot compete. So here we are losing another season trying to fix it again.

It was those owners themselves that wanted the league expanded. It was those owners that wanted to go into new markets and expand the game to get a national US TV deal. It was actually a smart plan as TV revenue is money for nothing. You're playing the game whether it's televised or not. But that's a very long term plan. Then those same owners turn around and do everything possible to screw those teams over so they can't afford to compete. How do you draw new fans to a team that can't compete year after year? The have owners are the real problem and the cause of there being a lockout yet again.

The owners need a bigger slice of the pie to survive. The have owners need to to do more revenue sharing for the good of the league as a whole. There needs to be limits on term and structure of player contracts. There has to be a level playing field for all the teams. Otherwise they may as well cut the league to 12 teams and give up any notion of growing the sport beyond a small niche game.


I agree the Owner's are the heart of the problem.

But Bettman has to take his fair share of the blame too, the way he has handled these Owner's is just as bad as what the owner's did in the first place.

He can't be blamed for the expansion, but how he continues to keep the teams there when it has clearly not worked doesn't make much sense to me, NBC cares about the teams like Chicago, Detriot, Boston, New York, that's the heart of American hockey, if Pheonix and Columbus move next year lets say to Seattle (Which would be a + for NBC) and then Quebec, that won't make any difference in NBC signing the next deal, if the league can rebound from the immense damage done by this work stoppage then start growing again, NBC will sign no matter where those struggling teams go.

So I think Gary is responsible for continuing to allow this to happen, he keeps playing into the owner's hands, and the TV he signed wasn't even that great, we could have been further along, and we could be further along right now.

The owners take all the financial risk. Without the owners taking that financial risk the players don't have a job. Every employee is at risk of an injury on the job in virtually any occupation.


But Pro Sports is different.

Without the Athlete's there is no revenue, it is the Athlete's skill and personality that draw the revenue and attention, not the Owner's buildings.

And as other's have said, the players do take risks physically to continue to play and keep the owner's business going, so Owner's do take some risk's but the risks the players take are equally as risky, just in a different sense.
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