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[proposal] Van - Buff


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#1 Franksedin

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 06:06 AM

So to preface the whole exercise here I'll start by saying this would probably never work due to NTC and cap considerations, but I am not the biggest Kesler fan so thought I would throw this out there for people to talk about.

To Van: either Grigorenko and Foligno Or Grigorenko and Armia (plus insert picks...) *** think Mike Richards asking price

To Buffalo: Kesler (plus insert whatever...)

Why: Buffalo has lots of young talent (Coho, Ennis, Girgensons, McNabb, Pysyk...) so can afford to lose some youth, and they have lots of skill forwards. What they do not have is a big, strong two-way Centre who can shutdown all the great players in the east (ie Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Ovie..). They need a bigger guy to play against these players...Kesler can do this. Now Kes would need to waive his NTC but he might be willing to cause its an American city and closer to his home state. Buffalo also has an owner who wants to win now, and a team that has a good mix of talent to do that. Van does this b/c they gain some youth who they can build around for the future, but a guy like Grigorenko might be able to step in and contribute now. Van also gets some bigger, stronger guys in Armia or Foligno.

Why not: GMMG does like to ask players to waive NTC. Van wants to win now and might feel this sets them back. Buffalo is close to the cap and might not want to absorb Keslers salary (they would be fine if they can buyout or move a guy like Leino). Buffalo might not also want to part with the strong youth moment they have going.

Anywho...what are people's thoughts. I just did this cause I want Kesler gone and this makde the most sense.
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#2 Pears

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 06:15 AM

Why in the world do you want a Selke winner gone? And a huge no to the proposal, big underpayment.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#3 Lonny_Bohonos_14

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:34 AM

Why not: GMMG does like to ask players to waive NTC. Van wants to win now and might feel this sets them back. Buffalo is close to the cap and might not want to absorb Keslers salary (they would be fine if they can buyout or move a guy like Leino). Buffalo might not also want to part with the strong youth moment they have going.


Bolded is why this would not happen. The Canucks have no replacement ready for Kesler. Schroeder could fill in, but I'm not convinced he is ready yet. Gaunce is looking good, but same deal. He won't be ready for a few years.

IF Kesler was going to be moved it would have to be for a package along the lines of:

A young NHL ready player capable of stepping into 2nd line centre role. (Thinking along the lines Ennis or Hodgson)
A prospect with decent potential (Pysyk or Armia)
Pick or another prospect - depending on everything else.


If Buffalo offered up a package similar to this, Gillis would have to listen, but in the end Kesler's not going anywhere anytime soon.
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#4 Squeak

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:07 AM

You did half a proposal with all the 'insert heres'
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#5 elvis15

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 11:35 AM

You did half a proposal with all the 'insert heres'

Yup, hard to gauge value when that's meant to cover all the extras.

If we did do it, something like this might do the trick though. The Richards deal was B. Schenn, Simmonds and a 2nd for Richards and Rob Bordson (just a throw in, the Kings didn't qualify him and now he's a UFA playing in the AHL). Grigorenko would be the only one I would consider back rather than Girgensons, Ennis or CoHo as he'd have the highest potential and we've already been down the Hodgson road.

Buffalo wouldn't move Foligno after already moving Kassian; they'd lose too much size up front by doing so. Armia's big as well, but not available until next year at least so they might consider him, but then that's more young prospects they're moving.

The pick would have to be similar to the Richards deal, and then we'd have to decide what to do for this season as to who takes Kesler's place. Would we then get Arnott or someone similar for extra insurance, or trust Ebbett and Schroeder to fill in behind Henrik along with Manny and Lappy?

Also, I don't know if Buffalo put Girgorenko on their exception list for junior players they'd like to call up in the event of a season this year, otherwise we'd be waiting to even try him at camp until next year. He wouldn't be a viable option in that case and we would be downgrading significantly at center this year if the season isn't cancelled.
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#6 babych

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 12:08 PM

Kesler for Hodgson - straight up.
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QUOTE
(shiznak@Jun 17 2008, 08:00 PM)
Kesler was lucky to score 20 this year since the injury to Morrison allowed him to do so.

I doubt Kesler would ever break 15 goals in his career again.

#7 Zoolander

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 01:07 PM

Kesler for Ennis, and Armia, and a 2nd rd pick
Then trade Ballard to Detroit for Teemu Pulkkinen

All 3 players we get are NHL ready. Ennis is a playmaker, Armia is a power-forward/sniper, and Pulkinnen is a pure sniper.

Trade Lu for Kadri, Gunnarsson, and a pick, and our prospect pool goes from:

Before:
Jensen-Schroeder-Kassian
Rodin-Gaunce-?

After:
Ennis-Armia-Pulkinnen
Jensen-Kadri-Kassian
Schroeder-Gaunce-Rodin

Our top 9 would then be very versatile:
Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Ennis-Armia
Higgins-Kadri-Kassian
**Hansen/Lapierre/Pulkinnen
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Shinkaruk-Draisaitl-Scherbak
Virtanen-Horvat-Jensen

#8 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 01:42 PM

Or, uh..

Hodgson for Kassian.
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#9 Jägermeister

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 02:02 PM

Not gonna trade Kesler unless we get some good NHL ready talent in return.
While any of those prospects are good players, this would make our team way worse for the present, and would essentially end any hope that we could win a Cup in the next couple seasons.
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#10 oldnews

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 06:58 PM

If Buffalo is still looking for the "right centerman", it'll cost them Myers.

I agree with other posters - Grigorenko is too young to step in.

Don't really like their options at center - can always make another deal to replace second line center role.

Alternatively, if not Myers, a top six RW like Stafford, with a prospect Foligno (or a center like Grigorenko) as a secondary piece for Kesler.

To fill the whole at center, I'd dangle Luongo (or Edler if he won't re-sign) in front of Holmgren, for Couturier +, depending upon the return for Kesler.
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#11 eretz canucks

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 10:52 PM

No to original proposal
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#12 eretz canucks

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 10:58 PM

To Buff
Kesler
Schroeder

To Van
Myers
Grigorenko
2013 2nd


Then

To Philly
Edler
2014 first
Rodin

To VAn
The Schenn Brothers



Then

To Tor
Luongo
Raymond

To Van
Bozak
2013 first


Let the re build begin!!

Edited by eretz canucks, 28 December 2012 - 11:28 PM.

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#13 James van Riemsdyk

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:52 AM

I think if we trade Kesler to Buffalo, Cody Hodgson would cry. He would be pushed back on the depth chart. I also don't think we need grigorenko right now because we have Gauce, Jensen, Kassian, Schroeder, and other prospects. grigorenko would help us but i don't think we need him.
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#14 oldnews

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:18 PM

To Buff
Kesler
Schroeder

To Van
Myers
Grigorenko
2013 2nd


Then

To Philly
Edler
2014 first
Rodin

To VAn
The Schenn Brothers



Then

To Tor
Luongo
Raymond

To Van
Bozak
2013 first


Let the re build begin!!


I like your first proposal - the next two look like massive overpayments to me.
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#15 oldnews

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:20 PM

I think if we trade Kesler to Buffalo, Cody Hodgson would cry. He would be pushed back on the depth chart. I also don't think we need grigorenko right now because we have Gauce, Jensen, Kassian, Schroeder, and other prospects. grigorenko would help us but i don't think we need him.


I agree - and that would be ironic wouldn't it. Hodgson is already going to be hard-pressed to preven himself from dropping down the depth charts the next few years.
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#16 elvis15

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:28 PM

Grigorenko is more of a top 6 offensive center than any of our current prospects. Schroeder and Gaunce have ability to put up points, but aren't as likely to put up the potential numbers of Grigorenko. Grigorenko has the advantage over Schroeder in size, and offensively over Gaunce, but it remains to be seen if he surpasses them in the NHL. His potential is higher though.
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Tanev is going to EDM. I can put my life savings down on it

 


#17 bossram

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:44 PM

As another poster said, the Richards deal was B. Schenn, SImmonds and a 1st. A top prospect, solid roster player and a 1st round pick. I think Kesler has very similar value.

To VAN
Grigorenko
Ennis
Foligno or Armia

To BUF
Kesler
Schroeder
Weise

We get a slightly better package than the Richards deal, so I sent some other pieces Buffalo's way. Same premise: Top prospect (Grigorenko), solid roster player (Ennis), and a 1st (Foligno/Armia) but I'm just going to assume those two have equal value to a 1 1st round pick.

Of course Vancouver won't trade Kesler and it would set them back in their pursuit of a Cup. This is just for fun.
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What is the deal with Mike Gillis, it always seems like he's sweating...

#18 elvis15

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:38 PM

It was a 2nd, not a 1st.
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#19 Pears

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 03:34 PM

Grigorenko is more of a top 6 offensive center than any of our current prospects. Schroeder and Gaunce have ability to put up points, but aren't as likely to put up the potential numbers of Grigorenko. Grigorenko has the advantage over Schroeder in size, and offensively over Gaunce, but it remains to be seen if he surpasses them in the NHL. His potential is higher though.

I still have no idea why Calgary traded the pick that would've gotten them Grigorenko. Then they choose Mark Jankowski when they could've taken Gaunce, Subban, Matta etc. Terrible trade IMO.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#20 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 04:16 PM

To Buff
Kesler
Schroeder

To Van
Myers
Grigorenko
2013 2nd


Then

To Philly
Edler
2014 first
Rodin

To VAn
The Schenn Brothers



Then

To Tor
Luongo
Raymond

To Van
Bozak
2013 first


Let the re build begin!!


Buffalo declines the 1st one.

And I wouldn't do the other 2.
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#21 King of the ES

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 04:46 PM

I like your first proposal - the next two look like massive overpayments to me.


Myers is more valuable than Kesler.

Grigorenko is more valuable than Schroeder.

And they're also giving us a 2nd, out of the goodness of their hearts.

I wouldn't be rushing out to buy any Tyler Myers Vancouver Canucks jerseys, if I'm you.
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#22 canucklehead44

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:41 PM

This trade does not make sense. The Canucks are built to win now. Why would they trade away current talent for future talent?

If Vancouver missed the playoffs last year and was sitting bottom 5 in the league come trade deadline this might make sense but not when we are coming off of back to back president's trophies.

I don't see us selling until the 16/17 or 17/18 seasons as most of our core will be around 35 or older. They will likely be at the trail end of big contracts, getting paid around double their market rate. The team will not be able to compete at this point and will move these contracts to acquire younger, cap friendly players.

When the WCE was declining we had the Twins who were improving every season and got lucky with a few other players (Burrows, Kesler, Edler). The Bertuzzi for Luongo deal was also huge. I am not sure how the Canucks GM will transition, it will be interesting to see. I've seen one awful transition and one great transition in my lifetime. By great transition I mean going from a good team with a set group of core players to another good team with a different group of core players without sucking in between.

Edited by canucklehead44, 29 December 2012 - 11:43 PM.

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Sig too big.

#23 TheEhrhoffEffect

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 02:53 AM

To Buff
Kesler
Schroeder

To Van
Myers
Grigorenko
2013 2nd

Lmao
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