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Luongo Amnesty buyout


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#61 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 03:40 PM

Luongo has folded like a cheap tent in the playoffs since 2009, what would possibly make you think that the Canucks (or any team) could win a Stanley Cup with him in net?
I'll take your million bucks now please.


The fans have turned on Luongo like cheap whores since 2009. What would possibly make you think the Canucks (or any team) could win a Stanley Cup with such fans?
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#62 King of the ES

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 04:19 PM

Un glad to see I'm not the only one with the same line of thinking with regards to Luongo.


I've said from the start that this whole situation was horribly mismanaged by the Canucks, and that Gillis should've just traded Schneider sometime in the 2011-12 season, heck, even the 2010-11 season/off-season. But he didn't, and Luongo now wants out.

And you just need to come to grips with it. IT. IS. TOO. LATE. The damage has been done. Luongo's gone, it's Schneider's team. I don't think it's the smart choice either, but that is what's happening, amigo.
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#63 TimberWolf

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 07:42 PM

The fans have turned on Luongo like cheap whores since 2009. What would possibly make you think the Canucks (or any team) could win a Stanley Cup with such fans?


Tampa Bay won the cup with no fans.
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I was saying Lu-Urns...

“That guys an idiot. It’s his own fault if he can’t tell the difference between an all star center and a plug defenceman”

"It's not the location. We just can't beat the Canucks. Thank god they're in the West."


#64 TimberWolf

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 07:45 PM

I've said from the start that this whole situation was horribly mismanaged by the Canucks, and that Gillis should've just traded Schneider sometime in the 2011-12 season, heck, even the 2010-11 season/off-season. But he didn't, and Luongo now wants out.

And you just need to come to grips with it. IT. IS. TOO. LATE. The damage has been done. Luongo's gone, it's Schneider's team. I don't think it's the smart choice either, but that is what's happening, amigo.


Right, I am sure if Schneider was traded a long time ago and then showed how good he was like he has been, posters that are critical of GMMG no matter what (especially since Hodgson was traded) would not be railing here about what a bonehead move that was getting rid of such a good goaltender for nothing.
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I was saying Lu-Urns...

“That guys an idiot. It’s his own fault if he can’t tell the difference between an all star center and a plug defenceman”

"It's not the location. We just can't beat the Canucks. Thank god they're in the West."


#65 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 07:55 PM

The guy's signed until 2022, I don't think there's anything "rental" about that.


:lol: Good line, gave me a chuckle, your pretty good with these 1 liners.

This was such an excellent post, and then the final paragraph happened.


So Buying out Luongo rather than trading him and get value is return is a better option to you too? :picard:
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#66 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 07:57 PM

David Booth is just not very good. No hockey sense whatsoever.


:lol: Funny how you say that, yet you defend Raymond to no end.

Talk about contradicting.
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#67 nuck nit

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 09:03 PM

The fans have turned on Luongo like cheap whores since 2009.


Have to agree with the sentiment of the statement but it is my understanding that even 'cheap whores' provide a basic service.The problem with this comparison is that Gillis signed to pay Luo to perform way out into the future -just after he re-injured his groin.

A)Short term contract with functioning groin or

B)Long term contract with susceptible groin.

Gillis never figured out he could have made the Canucks franchise by 'moneyballing' Luo at the top of his game.

Too bad he never figured out the groin and contract lengths as some fans have.

Edited by nuck nit, 29 December 2012 - 09:13 PM.

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#68 King of the ES

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:24 PM

So Buying out Luongo rather than trading him and get value is return is a better option to you too? :picard:


I'm not suggesting buying out Luongo. He won't need to be bought out, but the fact that this discussion is taking place hopefully leads you to realize that we're not getting Kadri+Gardiner+Biggs, or Ryan Johansen, or Purcell+Aulie+1st, etc.

We're selling Luongo very, very low, and will suffer as a result.
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#69 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:31 PM

I'm not suggesting buying out Luongo. He won't need to be bought out, but the fact that this discussion is taking place hopefully leads you to realize that we're not getting Kadri+Gardiner+Biggs, or Ryan Johansen, or Purcell+Aulie+1st, etc.

We're selling Luongo very, very low, and will suffer as a result.


You take every chance you can to be-little Lu and now suddenly your a fan of his u want us to go with him rather than Schneider?

And I don't think he will get any of those deals, but what do you think he will get us?
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#70 King of the ES

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:34 PM

You take every chance you can to be-little Lu and now suddenly your a fan of his u want us to go with him rather than Schneider?

And I don't think he will get any of those deals, but what do you think he will get us?


How am I belittling him? Clearly you don't understand how markets work. This is a supply/demand problem. We have an excess supply in net. Part of the excess has asked to be traded. Demand is little. This is all weakness from the trader's perspective. This move has nothing to do with Luongo's ability, and everything to do with the fundamental market dynamics of the situation, that are not in our favour at all.

I don't know what he'll get us, but I think that if Luke Schenn was actually offered to us for him, Mike Gillis should have taken that and ran.
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#71 Pears

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:35 PM

You take every chance you can to be-little Lu and now suddenly your a fan of his u want us to go with him rather than Schneider?

And I don't think he will get any of those deals, but what do you think he will get us?

It's pretty obvious that King is adamant that the Canucks will get table scraps/other teams left overs in return for Luongo. Sorry King but MG just will not allow that to happen.
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#72 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:44 PM

How am I belittling him? Clearly you don't understand how markets work. This is a supply/demand problem. We have an excess supply in net. Part of the excess has asked to be traded. Demand is little. This is all weakness from the trader's perspective. This move has nothing to do with Luongo's ability, and everything to do with the fundamental market dynamics of the situation, that are not in our favour at all.

I don't know what he'll get us, but I think that if Luke Schenn was actually offered to us for him, Mike Gillis should have taken that and ran.


How are you forgetting all the times we argued about Luongo costing us the cup? Or your opinion Luongo being a top 10 goaltender.

I understand how the market works, which is why he won't get full value, but MG is patient man and he will get good value.

Its clear to me that you are just not a good judge of talent at all.


I'm happy he didn't take that, I would rather have a package like Kadri, Biggs and a 2nd myself instead of Schenn.

Now since you have no issue criticizing everybody else's proposals, knowing that Schenn is now long gone, let's hear your Tor-Van Luongo proposal?
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#73 King of the ES

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 07:32 AM

I'm happy he didn't take that, I would rather have a package like Kadri, Biggs and a 2nd myself instead of Schenn.

Now since you have no issue criticizing everybody else's proposals, knowing that Schenn is now long gone, let's hear your Tor-Van Luongo proposal?


There's only one roadblock to your proposal, and his name is Brian Burke. I think we'd be lucky to get either Kadri or Biggs; Schroeder would probably need to be going the other way if we were to get Kadri, and I don't think there's any way that Burke trades Biggs.

Bozak makes the most sense from Toronto - he should be the obvious target.
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#74 vanhalendlrband

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 07:40 AM

this is proof the salary cap is a joke. We will never get rid of it but it ruined our team. We had a stacked team for the first time ever and they bring in a cap and we were screwed. Detroit will forever be the place for draft picks to go, but 20 years ago that wasn't the case at all. They were the dead things they sucked nobody wanted ANYTHING to do with Detroit. What happens is, the fact the Salary Cap came into place before anyone could catch up to Detroit really means that draft picks wlll forever manipulate themselves for the draft. I swear Detroit has some way of making good talent seem like they aren't or something but they have ways of finding guys they already knew about in the lower rounds, like how without the players almost coming to them. I really don't know i'm just theorizing, i'm sure a lot of this is wrong this isn't an accurate post by any means, but if people can kind of follow my drift a bit i'm really tired but I can't sleep.
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#75 Westcoasting

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 09:46 AM

How are you forgetting all the times we argued about Luongo costing us the cup? Or your opinion Luongo being a top 10 goaltender.

I understand how the market works, which is why he won't get full value, but MG is patient man and he will get good value.

Its clear to me that you are just not a good judge of talent at all.


I'm happy he didn't take that, I would rather have a package like Kadri, Biggs and a 2nd myself instead of Schenn.

Now since you have no issue criticizing everybody else's proposals, knowing that Schenn is now long gone, let's hear your Tor-Van Luongo proposal?


If we put emotional opinions of Lui aside, do you think we will get that much in return? All along i have been expecting a lot less in return because of his age and salary obligations. I would be ecstatic if they could pull off a deal like that but as it sits right now i just don't see the Leafs offering very much. I can see a trade for a couple of second rounders or a first rounder that hasn't panned out like a Jordan Schroeder type pick.
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#76 King of the ES

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 11:43 AM

If we put emotional opinions of Lui aside, do you think we will get that much in return? All along i have been expecting a lot less in return because of his age and salary obligations. I would be ecstatic if they could pull off a deal like that but as it sits right now i just don't see the Leafs offering very much. I can see a trade for a couple of second rounders or a first rounder that hasn't panned out like a Jordan Schroeder type pick.


Exactly. There are going to be a lot of disappointed Canuck fans. Perceived return by most on these boards is some sort of package consisting of multiple high-end prospects.
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#77 Fozzy

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 11:53 AM

There are a few teams that need a goaltender, by that i mean a quality goaltender and IF there is a season this year there could be a few more teams after Luongo if that team is in danger of missing the playoffs. People forget that Luongo can backstop a crappy team to get into the playoffs. I am hopeful, no positive that we will get a better return than a ' 2nd rounder or Bozak ' for him.
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#78 Get real canuck fans

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:45 PM

There are a few teams that need a goaltender, by that i mean a quality goaltender and IF there is a season this year there could be a few more teams after Luongo if that team is in danger of missing the playoffs. People forget that Luongo can backstop a crappy team to get into the playoffs. I am hopeful, no positive that we will get a better return than a ' 2nd rounder or Bozak ' for him.


Luongo pre 2007 was better than post 2011 luongo, and he never got the Isles or Panthers to the playoffs. I do not think Lu can now backstop a crappy team anywhere.
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#79 Fozzy

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 01:09 PM

Luongo pre 2007 was better than post 2011 luongo, and he never got the Isles or Panthers to the playoffs. I do not think Lu can now backstop a crappy team anywhere.


And the years in-between ? On THAT crappy Panthers team he faced 2500 shots a season, some nights nearly 50 shots. All that whilst the Panthers had trouble scoring. No goalie would of got that team in the playoffs.

I guess by crappy I mean Toronto crappy. He'd get that team in the playoffs.
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#80 Fozzy

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 01:14 PM

Also everyone raves about Luongos first season here and how we got us single handedly into the playoffs. His save percentage that season? .921

His save percentage last season? .919

Not much difference eh but I guess some of us Canuck fans got a little spoiled and decided to run the best goalie this team had out of town.
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#81 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 01:51 PM

Also everyone raves about Luongos first season here and how we got us single handedly into the playoffs. His save percentage that season? .921

His save percentage last season? .919

Not much difference eh but I guess some of us Canuck fans got a little spoiled and decided to run the best goalie this team had out of town.


Canuck fans are fickle, what can you say?

There might be the question of timing of his saves. His first year he looked invincible. Then when he had that groin (shudder) injury, he's not been quite the same. It does seem he let's certain teams in the playoffs get into his head. Maybe we need defensemen that clear the net better in front of him so he doesn't get rattled. Those road games in Boston the whole team didn't show up. But one wonders if he had made a spectacular save or two early on, how that might have rallied the team more.

I'm sure we can get decent assets for Luongo. It's in a salary cap world you can't have $10 million of your cap invested in two goalies. Especially if the cap will drop $10 million in 2013-14. Provided we have a season of course.
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#82 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 04:40 PM

There's only one roadblock to your proposal, and his name is Brian Burke. I think we'd be lucky to get either Kadri or Biggs; Schroeder would probably need to be going the other way if we were to get Kadri, and I don't think there's any way that Burke trades Biggs.

Bozak makes the most sense from Toronto - he should be the obvious target.


So A 3rd liner who is a pending UFA should be the "obvious target" for Luongo? :lol:

Glad your not GM, Kadri is someone the Leafs who be willing to move, and that offer I proposed is probably alot less than GMMG has asked before, so Burke would probably be refreshed to get an offer like that, that helps them out dramaticlly more than any of those pieces could, and also gets rid of all the propaganda that has come with the Kadri situation.

We have to get value to here, I understand Luongo's full value is limited due to circumstances but it's not limited quite as much as you think.
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#83 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 04:51 PM

If we put emotional opinions of Lui aside, do you think we will get that much in return? All along i have been expecting a lot less in return because of his age and salary obligations. I would be ecstatic if they could pull off a deal like that but as it sits right now i just don't see the Leafs offering very much. I can see a trade for a couple of second rounders or a first rounder that hasn't panned out like a Jordan Schroeder type pick.


From their perspective that would probably be Kadri, and I wouldn't say JS hasn't panned out too early to tell.

As for your concerns on if we could get a deal like that I think so, Luongo's full value will never be realized in the deal but our return won't be that bad, won't be full value or a homerun, but a deal like that is good for Toronto too, they don't give up any current assets (Something Burke really doesn't want to do)

They get rid of Kadri who IMO is one of there more expendable young assets for a goalie like Luongo, aswell he would occupy most of the value from our perspective, then we let them keep the 1st and ask a 2nd of them instead. They do give up a decent prosepct in Biggs but Biggs will never have the impact to there team Luongo will and you have to give up value to get value. He projects as a 2nd/3rd liner anyways so it's not a huge loss.
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#84 Westcoasting

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 09:45 PM

From their perspective that would probably be Kadri, and I wouldn't say JS hasn't panned out too early to tell.

As for your concerns on if we could get a deal like that I think so, Luongo's full value will never be realized in the deal but our return won't be that bad, won't be full value or a homerun, but a deal like that is good for Toronto too, they don't give up any current assets (Something Burke really doesn't want to do)

They get rid of Kadri who IMO is one of there more expendable young assets for a goalie like Luongo, aswell he would occupy most of the value from our perspective, then we let them keep the 1st and ask a 2nd of them instead. They do give up a decent prosepct in Biggs but Biggs will never have the impact to there team Luongo will and you have to give up value to get value. He projects as a 2nd/3rd liner anyways so it's not a huge loss.


I could see them getting Kadri and a third or fourth line guy in a deal. I don't see them getting a top six player who will step in right away. Who knows about Kadri if he will ever pan out to be a good NHL player but i think that is the kind of first round pick we will get, one who hasn't been able to crack the NHL. I have read the hopes of a lot of CDCer's who think we will get a top ten pick and another good player etc. Maybe but i just can't see it. Not enough interest has been shown and very little talk or rumors from the day after the Canucks were eliminated. I think we will get a salary dump coming this way and not much else
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#85 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:01 PM

I could see them getting Kadri and a third or fourth line guy in a deal. I don't see them getting a top six player who will step in right away. Who knows about Kadri if he will ever pan out to be a good NHL player but i think that is the kind of first round pick we will get, one who hasn't been able to crack the NHL. I have read the hopes of a lot of CDCer's who think we will get a top ten pick and another good player etc. Maybe but i just can't see it. Not enough interest has been shown and very little talk or rumors from the day after the Canucks were eliminated. I think we will get a salary dump coming this way and not much else


I dont think we will get a top 6 forward either, Toronto doesn't have much.

But why would we trade him if all we get is a salary dump? At the very least it will be us just dumping salary.
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#86 Provost

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:38 PM

Agree and disagree. Ryan was the best third line center in the league could shut down the leagues best lines and score goals at the same time. It didn't matter if he couldn't or wouldn't pass because he was playing with third line checking players.

He can be good on the second line when he packs the team on his back, but he can't do it for long if he playes by himself. Having him play as the second line center kills the "second line players he plays with". If he needs to be our second line center then our second line wingers should play on the third with a center that can pass.


Kesler isn't on our team to be a 3rd line centre. We (and he) had by far the most success when Malhotra took most of the defensive duties. We need a 2nd line that is on the ice a lot and can score regularly.

I just don't see any other configuration of our existing core guys that allows Kesler not to be playing in that position and being relied on to put up points (or at least his line putting up points). We don't have a great passing 3rd line centre either to spark offense. Sometimes guys mesh and sometimes they don't. Booth and Kesler so far have sucked monkey butt whenever put together.

The only other scenario I see right now is to put Booth up on the top line (he looked reasonable with them in very limited time), and move Burrows with Kesler to leverage their chemistry. Burrows is never going to be a star on his own, but he is a great complementary player who seems to make other guys better.
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#87 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:49 PM

Tampa Bay won the cup with no fans.


No fans is a heck of a lot better than vindictive, short-term thinking, absolute-termed, panicky fans...
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#88 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:51 PM

:lol: Funny how you say that, yet you defend Raymond to no end.

Talk about contradicting.


... And Kadri... And Wellwood...
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#89 Westcoasting

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 11:06 PM

I dont think we will get a top 6 forward either, Toronto doesn't have much.

But why would we trade him if all we get is a salary dump? At the very least it will be us just dumping salary.


It will come down to not having a choice. How long will Lui be a good team guy and be happy being the backup? Can't give him many starts as i'm sure Cory has a handshake agreement on him being the main guy now, don't want to piss him off. And as time goes on if Lui is the backup, his value will be dropping. Can't see them holding on to him being unhappy and costing so much money. A salary dump would come from some other team as a different deal, someone expensive who hasn't been performing... i don't know, very interested to see how this all pans out for all involved... Canucks, Roberto and the team who trades for him.
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#90 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 11:38 PM

It will come down to not having a choice. How long will Lui be a good team guy and be happy being the backup? Can't give him many starts as i'm sure Cory has a handshake agreement on him being the main guy now, don't want to piss him off. And as time goes on if Lui is the backup, his value will be dropping. Can't see them holding on to him being unhappy and costing so much money. A salary dump would come from some other team as a different deal, someone expensive who hasn't been performing... i don't know, very interested to see how this all pans out for all involved... Canucks, Roberto and the team who trades for him.


I highly doubt that, if Roberto is here they will continue with a tandem that makes the most sense to keep Schneids fresh aswell as keep Roberto's value as high as possible and keep the situation as best as it can be.
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