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Domestic Extremists - Freemen on the Land


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#31 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 05:41 PM

That article is horrible. Certainly there are better anti-lawyer ones available, if that's what people want to make this thread about now.

I don't picture Freemen of the Land as anything but criminals that want to go off-grid.
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#32 Wetcoaster

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 05:43 PM

That article is horrible. Certainly there are better anti-lawyer ones available, if that's what people want to make this thread about now.

I don't picture Freemen of the Land as anything but criminals that want to go off-grid.

Or just people who believe in bizarre conspiracy theories and are easily misled. The unknowing and uninformed leading the gullible seems the most accurate assessment.
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#33 Tearloch7

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 06:06 PM

Or just people who believe in bizarre conspiracy theories and are easily misled. The unknowing and uninformed leading the gullible seems the most accurate assessment.


Careful, Wet .. I do believe you are identifying a key segment of the CDC user base .. :lol:
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#34 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 06:18 PM



While this incident may be isolated, it went to show how this movement, as baseless and ridiculous as it is, has been effectively used to render 'the law' completely powerless.

(But if they weren't being filmed at the time, that guy would be TOAST.)

I think it's hilarious how easy it is to circumvent government and the law. Just disregard it? Really? We're entering a troubling age here, if that's the case. Eventually (at least you'd think) the government will have to step up and do something about it. And it's not going to look pretty.
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#35 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 06:22 PM

Wondering... Aren't the leaders of these kind of movements generally 'offed' right away? How inept is Homeland Security down there that they let these guys slip through the cracks? Homeland Security's ineffectiveness here is worth noting. Um, WHERE is all that money going, if not actual 'Homeland Security???'

Certainly adds fuel to conspiracy talk, if anything.
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#36 Tearloch7

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 06:37 PM

Wondering... Aren't the leaders of these kind of movements generally 'offed' right away? How inept is Homeland Security down there that they let these guys slip through the cracks? Homeland Security's ineffectiveness here is worth noting. Um, WHERE is all that money going, if not actual 'Homeland Security???'

Certainly adds fuel to conspiracy talk, if anything.


It only makes sense they would use these folks as "bait" to catch Glenn Beck and the Koch Brothers ..
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#37 lowest common denominator

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 06:51 PM

Wondering... Aren't the leaders of these kind of movements generally 'offed' right away? How inept is Homeland Security down there that they let these guys slip through the cracks? Homeland Security's ineffectiveness here is worth noting. Um, WHERE is all that money going, if not actual 'Homeland Security???'

Certainly adds fuel to conspiracy talk, if anything.


Who knows? Maybe they are actually supported by the state in a few different ways, They could be used as an example to any would be dissenters. They could be excercise operatives, letting Homeland Security stretch their legs in front of the media. Anything is possible in this day and age.
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#38 Salmonberries

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 06:54 PM

Dang lawyers.


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#39 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 12:05 AM

Disprove an opinion? :lol:


This is not an opinion , this is a fact

that Lawyers are not ethical human beings and that they do not enforce the law or protect the rights of our society. That lawyers merely use the law and re-interpret the law for the advantage of those paying them to do so. Therefore they are being unethical to the law the purport to serve, as they manipulate the law to mean whatever it is that they wish it to mean for the highest paying clientele. Now some would argue that they are ethical and helping their clients from being abused by law. Yet if so they are not enforcing the law, but modifying either its intent, definition or letter of the law using case law and arguments which are vaguely relevant to any particular reality of the law.

There is always exceptions to any rule .
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#40 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 12:17 AM

As I said I have no idea what goes on in Australia but I do know what happens in BC and it is quite different from what you describe.


I am describing a self regulating profession , that will resort to any means to avoid bringing disrepute upon their profession , which in itself is a conflict of interest .

For all your protestations that things are different in canada , lawyers in canada , their ethics are self regulated , and you have provided no evidence to back up your claim that things are substantialy different
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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#41 Wetcoaster

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 01:52 AM

This is not an opinion , this is a fact

that Lawyers are not ethical human beings and that they do not enforce the law or protect the rights of our society. That lawyers merely use the law and re-interpret the law for the advantage of those paying them to do so. Therefore they are being unethical to the law the purport to serve, as they manipulate the law to mean whatever it is that they wish it to mean for the highest paying clientele. Now some would argue that they are ethical and helping their clients from being abused by law. Yet if so they are not enforcing the law, but modifying either its intent, definition or letter of the law using case law and arguments which are vaguely relevant to any particular reality of the law.

There is always exceptions to any rule .

It most assuredly is not a fact.

I charitably described it as an opinion, which is all that it is.

IMHO it an uninformed opinion.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

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Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#42 Wetcoaster

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 01:54 AM

I am describing a self regulating profession , that will resort to any means to avoid bringing disrepute upon their profession , which in itself is a conflict of interest .

For all your protestations that things are different in canada , lawyers in canada , their ethics are self regulated , and you have provided no evidence to back up your claim that things are substantialy different

You are describing how lawyers self-regulate in Australia.

What you describe is not the situation in BC. I gave you evidence but you ignore it.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#43 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 02:08 AM

It most assuredly is not a fact.

I charitably described it as an opinion, which is all that it is.

IMHO it an uninformed opinion.


It is most assuredly a fact , PROVE OTHERWISE
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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#44 Wetcoaster

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 02:16 AM

It is most assuredly a fact , PROVE OTHERWISE

Bizarre.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

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Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#45 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 02:43 AM

You are describing how lawyers self-regulate in Australia.

What you describe is not the situation in BC. I gave you evidence but you ignore it.


The evidence you offered is 'suspect' and does nothing but make the broad generalisation that because we are different countries, we must have substantially different legal systems. I don't believe this is true.In the Rules of Professional Conduct (source: lsuc.on.ca (The Canadian legal society site)), Rule 6: Relationship to the Society and Other Lawyers, at 6.01 it states that "[you] shall conduct [yourself] in such a way as to maintain the integruty of the profession." In the Commentary to 6.01, it states that "... a lawyers conduct should reflect credit on the legal profession, inspire the confidence, respect and trust of clients and the community, and AVOID EVEN THE APPEARANCE OF IMPROPRIETY."
Need I say more? What you say here on this is suspect to me because you have a conflicting interest.
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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#46 Wetcoaster

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 02:54 AM

The evidence you offered is 'suspect' and does nothing but make the broad generalisation that because we are different countries, we must have substantially different legal systems. I don't believe this is true.In the Rules of Professional Conduct (source: lsuc.on.ca (The Canadian legal society site)), Rule 6: Relationship to the Society and Other Lawyers, at 6.01 it states that "[you] shall conduct [yourself] in such a way as to maintain the integruty of the profession." In the Commentary to 6.01, it states that "... a lawyers conduct should reflect credit on the legal profession, inspire the confidence, respect and trust of clients and the community, and AVOID EVEN THE APPEARANCE OF IMPROPRIETY."
Need I say more? What you say here on this is suspect to me because you have a conflicting interest.

No, what I have is actual personal experience in BC and that does not accord with your version of what occurs in Australia.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#47 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:00 AM

No, what I have is actual personal experience in BC and that does not accord with your version of what occurs in Australia.



I think what you say is suspect , and i have provided evidence as to why this is the case , you are bound by the rules of your profession .

I know by direct experience , that is also the case in australia .
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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#48 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:08 AM

Bizarre.



this does not refute any of my claims

Edited by The Ratiocinator, 16 January 2013 - 03:08 AM.

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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#49 Wetcoaster

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:08 AM

I think what you say is suspect , and i have provided evidence as to why this is the case , you are bound by the rules of your profession .

I know by direct experience , that is also the case in australia .

You think incorrectly.

What evidence have you provided that you believe would be binding upon me?
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#50 Wetcoaster

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:11 AM

this does not refute any of my claims

Your "claims" are opinions based upon your experiences in another jurisdiction and in the context of a lawyer practising in BC, they are uninformed.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#51 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:20 AM

You think incorrectly.

What evidence have you provided that you believe would be binding upon me?


I sited your rules of conduct .

Are you saying that there are no rules of professional conduct binding you ?
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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#52 Navyblue

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:21 AM

I had a guy working at a gas station tell me all about these free men.You'd think they would need to use the system at some point so disregarding it would kinda put them at odds with living their life?

Edited by Navyblue, 16 January 2013 - 03:23 AM.

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#53 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:22 AM

Your "claims" are opinions based upon your experiences in another jurisdiction and in the context of a lawyer practising in BC, they are uninformed.


My claim is that lawyers merely use the law and re-interpret the law for the advantage of those paying them to do so. Therefore they are being unethical to the law the purport to serve, as they manipulate the law to mean whatever it is that they wish it to mean for the highest paying clientele.

And you claim this is not the case , again i ask you to prove this is not the case
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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#54 Wetcoaster

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:24 AM

I sited your rules of conduct .

Are you saying that there are no rules of professional conduct binding you ?

The word is "cited" and no those are not binding upon lawyers who practise anywhere other than in Ontario.

If you are ignorant of that very basic fact about how the legal profession is regulated in Canada then carrying on any sort of debate is simply impossible.

You do not have clue what are are posting about in respect of the legal profession in this country and in particular in BC.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#55 Wetcoaster

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:29 AM

My claim is that lawyers merely use the law and re-interpret the law for the advantage of those paying them to do so. Therefore they are being unethical to the law the purport to serve, as they manipulate the law to mean whatever it is that they wish it to mean for the highest paying clientele.

And you claim this is not the case , again i ask you to prove this is not the case

That is your opinion.

I disagree with it and consider it to be totally uninformed in respect of lawyers in BC. You have no grasp of the facts of how lawyers are regulated in BC and yet you want to debate with someone who actually has the knowledge, training, experience and expertise in such matters in this jurisdiction.

You are quite simply totally out of your depth.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#56 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:35 AM

The word is "cited" and no those are not binding upon lawyers who practise anywhere other than in Ontario.

If you are ignorant of that very basic fact about how the legal profession is regulated in Canada then carrying on any sort of debate is simply impossible.

You do not have clue what are are posting about in respect of the legal profession in this country and in particular in BC.


I am not a legal professional in australia , the words i m using are common , and can be found in any dictionary, and i am not claiming any special knowledge in the canadian legal systems .
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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#57 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:41 AM

That is your opinion.

I disagree with it and consider it to be totally uninformed in respect of lawyers in BC. You have no grasp of the facts of how lawyers are regulated in BC and yet you want to debate with someone who actually has the knowledge, training, experience and expertise in such matters in this jurisdiction.

You are quite simply totally out of your depth.


That what the lawyer my partner and I took to his own regulating body said , before we took him down , and made him accountable for his actions , and had him { his insurance company } offer monetary restitution .
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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#58 Wetcoaster

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:42 AM

I am not a legal professional in australia , the words i m using are common , and can be found in any dictionary, and i am not claiming any special knowledge in the canadian legal systems .

That is the precise claim that you have been making and you have no basis for it so now you try to shift your ground.

Nice try to disavow what you have been posting but that simply does not pas the most basic scrutiny.

Unlike you I am a legal professional and know whereof I speak in respect of the practise and regulation of law in BC. You OTOH do not have the faintest clue as you have proved conclusively in this thread.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#59 Wetcoaster

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:43 AM

That what the lawyer my partner and I took to his own regulating body said , before we took him down , and made him accountable for his actions , and had him { his insurance company } offer monetary restitution .

That has nothing to do with the practise and regulation of law in BC.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#60 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:48 AM

That has nothing to do with the practise and regulation of law in BC.


It has everything to do with what you said to me.
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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.





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