US gun owners show off their Christmas 'toys'

[Ghostsof1915]

That was the preliminary report but it has now been reported he was using the Bushmaster .223 semi auto rifle with large capacity magazines.

Two handguns and a rifle were recovered at the scene of the massacre, but reports have indicated that Lanza used the .223 semi-automatic rifle to shoot most, if not all, of his victims, including his mother, Nancy Lanza, to whom the gun was apparently registered. On Saturday, Connecticut’s chief medical examiner, H. Wayne Carver II, said that each of the victims had received multiple gunshot wounds.

http://tpmmuckraker...._adam_lanza.php

When 20-year-old Adam Lanza walked into the Sandy Hook Elementary School on Dec. 14, he carried two handguns, several hundred rounds of ammunition and a rifle that has become a flashpoint in the ongoing debate over gun rights in America.

Police say that the 20 children and six adults killed at the school were murdered with a .223 caliber Bushmaster AR-15 rifle.

http://newsfeed.time.../#ixzz2GkxChul2

[Electro Rock]

The reports cited are old, it has since become unclear whether the AR-15 was actually used or not.

[inane]

This is the kind of stupid debate we should not be dragged down to. Who cares what type of gun was used? Could it fire rapidly ie without reloading? Yes? Then it is totally unnecessary to own that weapon.

[canadiancon]

I too shoot that the range with my handguns, and my shotgun. They are always under lock n' key in order to comply with the firearms regulations. You have to remember that folks who do not own firearms might have a different view than you might.

Considering the excellent choices in rifles and shotguns, there's a difference between hunting with an SKS or SVT-40 which is semi-auto, and going hunting with an AK-47 which can go full auto.

If you go to a court in Canada and you used a firearm you pretty much know you're not going to get much sympathy from the judge or even the jury. The bright side is our courts are so weak they will probably still give you a slap on the wrist.

The Newtown murders were done by a Glock and Sig pistols with what sounded like extended magazines. Considering in the US you can get magazines with 17 or even more capacity, all you need is 6 magazines and you can shoot 102 rounds.

I don't question people hunting with semi's. I do question people who seem to need tons of firepower to get the job done. Or the folks that lob claymore's into ponds in the US and detonate them to kill a whole flock of ducks. Where's the sport in that?

By the way the SKS is supposed to be pinned to 5 rounds as does a Ruger Mini-14. And all the ones I've seen in stores in BC are that way. Why do you have a 30 round magazine? Are you one of the lucky ones who has a prohibited license? Or are you giving an example that a determined individual could probably pick up a AK47 magazine from the US?

[Wetcoaster]

Guns will never be restricted or banned. People will always find a way to kill other people of they want to.

[etsen3]

Don't have a problem with people owning guns, but I have a problem with the wrong people owning guns. I agree that in the States it can be way too easy for guns to fall into the wrong hands. However as long as these people are mentally stable, properly trained, and not criminals then I have no problem with it.

[Wesker]

Sandy Hook was a staged event. It was meant to sway public opinion to support gun control... it wont work.

[Electro Rock]

This is the kind of stupid debate we should not be dragged down to. Who cares what type of gun was used? Could it fire rapidly ie without reloading? Yes? Then it is totally unnecessary to own that weapon.

[inane]

It's an issue because the control freak propaganda machine made it one.

[Tearloch7]

Sandy Hook was a staged event. It was meant to sway public opinion to support gun control... it wont work.

[Perfect From Now On]

This is the result of a militarized society, as are the mass shootings that occur so much more often in the US.

on a lighter note.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RablPaIREkk

[Wetcoaster]

The Castle Doctrine at work in Minnesota:

A Minnesota man told police he feared two teenagers breaking into his home had a weapon when he shot and killed them on Thanksgiving Day.

Byron Smith, 64, of Little Falls, is now facing murder charges.

Smith admitted to investigators he fired “more shots than (he) needed to.”

And seemed to brag about making “a good, clean finishing shot” when he killed 18-year-old Haile Kifer, after he had already killed 17-year-old Nicholas Brady.

Minnesotans already have the right to defend themselves in their homes, but the case in Little Falls would probably not apply.

It’s already legal to shoot and kill an intruder in your home, or in your yard, or your garage, if you are threatened.

But self-defense becomes murder at a very specific point.

Most states already have self-defense laws based on the Castle Doctrine — “a man’s home is his castle.”

In fact, in Minnesota, you can shoot an intruder — even kill — if you feel threatened with great bodily harm, or if you are trying to prevent a felony.

But you must stop shooting if the threat’s eliminated, even if the intruder is still alive.

That’s called the “duty to retreat.”

http://minnesota.cbs...f-defense-laws/

In this case it seems this fellow had his home all wired for sound and the tapes that led to the shooting deaths of the two teens who broke into his home was introduced during his bail hearing.

Bail lowered for man accused of killing 2 Little Falls teens

Article by: JOY POWELL , Star Tribune Updated: December 18, 2012 - 6:48 AM

In an audio tape, he taunts and curses at the 18-year-old victim, and tells her, "You're dying."

Byron David Smith taunted the teen as she lay dying, shooting her again and again, according to a prosecutor who said an audio recording shows Smith went beyond self-defense in the Thanksgiving Day shootings of two cousins trying to burglarize his home.

"The state will show that this was an ambush, and a murder," prosecutor Todd Kosovich said in a court hearing Monday, recounting the chilling details the recorder captured.

Kosovich also argued for an increase in Smith's $1 million bail, but Judge Douglas Anderson ordered that Smith could be released from jail if he posted $50,000 in cash or a $500,000 bond and met conditions, including surrendering his passport.

Smith, 64, whose friends and relatives say had endured several previous break-ins, turned over the passport to authorities Monday night, but remained in Morrison County Jail as relatives worked to raise the bail money.

He is charged with two counts of second-degree murder in the deaths of Haile Kifer, 18, and her cousin, Nicholas Brady, 17. The teens were apparently trying to break into Smith's red-brick rambler along the Mississippi River when he shot them and then dragged their bodies into a workshop where they remained for more than 24 hours.

Kosovich said that on the day of the killings, Smith had guns within reach as he sat in a chair, between tall bookshelves, facing the basement stairs.

He had unscrewed light bulbs from sockets, save for one above the stairs.

There was a loaded rifle next to him and a loaded .22-caliber revolver strapped to his side.

Search warrants have revealed that Smith, a former security engineer for U.S. embassies, also had a surveillance system that picked up images of Kifer and Brady outside his home. Inside the house police found hours of audiotapes on a digital recorder.

Kosovich said a recording includes the sound of breaking glass, presumably when Brady broke a rear window, crawled in and then went downstairs.

Smith shot Brady three times, telling him, "You're dead," according to the recording. Within 18 seconds, Kosovich said, came the sound of Brady's body being dragged on a tarp to a workshop.

"That's how fast, that's how well equipped he was to deal with the death of Nick Brady," Kosovich said.

Ten minutes after the last shot, as Smith sat in his chair, Kifer's voice can be heard on the tape, calling out "Nick?"

Twelve seconds pass and Kifer begins down the stairs.

"Then we hear the first shot," and the sound of her body falling down the stairs, the prosecutor said.

Smith's rifle jams. The click is audible and Smith is heard saying, "Oh, sorry about that,"

As Kifer moans, Smith switches to the revolver.

After the second shot, Kifer says, "Oh, my God," and on the third shot, "Oh, God."

After the fourth shot, she utters "aw" and Smith says to her: "You're dying."

Now, Kosovich said, she's on the basement floor, "helpless," and Smith calls her "bitch." The sound of Smith dragging her to his workshop is audible and she is heard gasping.

One minute and 15 seconds later, again calling her "bitch," Smith fired a shot beneath her chin and into her cranium, the prosecution contends.

"He shot Haile Kifer three times in the head," Kosovich told the judge. "There's no way that's self-defense."

The prosecutor noted that from the sound of the window breaking to when Brady came downstairs, seven minutes passed during which Smith could have called police.

At that, Smith's older brother, Bruce Smith of California, laughed in the courtroom. The prosecutor also quoted Smith's description of Kifer's death to police: "She gave out the death twitch; it works the same as in a beaver or deer," the prosecutor quoted Smith as saying.

"Oh, my God," one of the teens' family members whispered in the courtroom.

In asking for lower bail, Anderson's attorney, Steve Meshbesher, said Smith is a Little Falls native who retired after 16 years with the Department of Homeland Security in a computer job.

Meshbesher also said Smith had written a memo to the sheriff's office about his Oct. 27 burglary and others in the area. His basement door, on a walkout level, had been kicked in, and a lock broken, and guns, cash and other items stolen.

"He told the police his story because he wanted their assistance and guidance," Meshbesher said, calling Smith a concerned, good citizen.

Kosovich argued that Smith is a danger to the community, noting that "he admitted he sat with the bodies for 24 hours."

A neighbor, William Anderson, contacted the sheriff's office 24 hours after the slayings because Smith called him, asking if he knew a good attorney.

After the hearing, Brady's grandparents, Steve and Bonnie Schaeffel, said the bail should not have been lowered.

"That is not who you want to see walking down the street," Bonnie Schaeffel said.

She doesn't believe the cousins were involved in the earlier burglary at Smith's home, and said they would have deserved legal punishment for breaking in on Thanksgiving.

Instead, she said, they ran into an enraged homeowner who carried out "a vigilante-style murder of children."

http://www.startribu...61.html?refer=y

In Canada even after the recent amendments to the Criminal Code on self defence (The Citizen’s Arrest and Self-Defence Act) it is illegal to employ deadly force in defence of property as noted at the website of PM Harper:

Use of Deadly Force

The use of deadly force is only permitted in very exceptional circumstances — for example, where it is necessary to protect a person from death or grievous bodily harm.

The courts have clearly stated that deadly force is never considered reasonable in defence of property alone. The legislative reforms currently being proposed do not make any change to the law relating to deadly force.

Courts will therefore continue to make any necessary changes on a case-by-case basis, developing the common law if and where appropriate.

http://www.pm.gc.ca/...dia.asp?id=3966

[Primus099]

Americans have guns? How fascinating please tell me more, why is this even news

[canadiancon]

The Castle Doctrine at work in Minnesota:

A Minnesota man told police he feared two teenagers breaking into his home had a weapon when he shot and killed them on Thanksgiving Day.

Byron Smith, 64, of Little Falls, is now facing murder charges.

Smith admitted to investigators he fired “more shots than (he) needed to.”

And seemed to brag about making “a good, clean finishing shot” when he killed 18-year-old Haile Kifer, after he had already killed 17-year-old Nicholas Brady.

Minnesotans already have the right to defend themselves in their homes, but the case in Little Falls would probably not apply.

It’s already legal to shoot and kill an intruder in your home, or in your yard, or your garage, if you are threatened.

But self-defense becomes murder at a very specific point.

Most states already have self-defense laws based on the Castle Doctrine — “a man’s home is his castle.”

In fact, in Minnesota, you can shoot an intruder — even kill — if you feel threatened with great bodily harm, or if you are trying to prevent a felony.

But you must stop shooting if the threat’s eliminated, even if the intruder is still alive.

That’s called the “duty to retreat.”

http://minnesota.cbs...f-defense-laws/

In this case it seems this fellow had his home all wired for sound and the tapes that led to the shooting deaths of the two teens who broke into his home was introduced during his bail hearing.

Bail lowered for man accused of killing 2 Little Falls teens

Article by: JOY POWELL , Star Tribune Updated: December 18, 2012 - 6:48 AM

In an audio tape, he taunts and curses at the 18-year-old victim, and tells her, "You're dying."

Byron David Smith taunted the teen as she lay dying, shooting her again and again, according to a prosecutor who said an audio recording shows Smith went beyond self-defense in the Thanksgiving Day shootings of two cousins trying to burglarize his home.

"The state will show that this was an ambush, and a murder," prosecutor Todd Kosovich said in a court hearing Monday, recounting the chilling details the recorder captured.

Kosovich also argued for an increase in Smith's $1 million bail, but Judge Douglas Anderson ordered that Smith could be released from jail if he posted $50,000 in cash or a $500,000 bond and met conditions, including surrendering his passport.

Smith, 64, whose friends and relatives say had endured several previous break-ins, turned over the passport to authorities Monday night, but remained in Morrison County Jail as relatives worked to raise the bail money.

He is charged with two counts of second-degree murder in the deaths of Haile Kifer, 18, and her cousin, Nicholas Brady, 17. The teens were apparently trying to break into Smith's red-brick rambler along the Mississippi River when he shot them and then dragged their bodies into a workshop where they remained for more than 24 hours.

Kosovich said that on the day of the killings, Smith had guns within reach as he sat in a chair, between tall bookshelves, facing the basement stairs.

He had unscrewed light bulbs from sockets, save for one above the stairs.

There was a loaded rifle next to him and a loaded .22-caliber revolver strapped to his side.

Search warrants have revealed that Smith, a former security engineer for U.S. embassies, also had a surveillance system that picked up images of Kifer and Brady outside his home. Inside the house police found hours of audiotapes on a digital recorder.

Kosovich said a recording includes the sound of breaking glass, presumably when Brady broke a rear window, crawled in and then went downstairs.

Smith shot Brady three times, telling him, "You're dead," according to the recording. Within 18 seconds, Kosovich said, came the sound of Brady's body being dragged on a tarp to a workshop.

"That's how fast, that's how well equipped he was to deal with the death of Nick Brady," Kosovich said.

Ten minutes after the last shot, as Smith sat in his chair, Kifer's voice can be heard on the tape, calling out "Nick?"

Twelve seconds pass and Kifer begins down the stairs.

"Then we hear the first shot," and the sound of her body falling down the stairs, the prosecutor said.

Smith's rifle jams. The click is audible and Smith is heard saying, "Oh, sorry about that,"

As Kifer moans, Smith switches to the revolver.

After the second shot, Kifer says, "Oh, my God," and on the third shot, "Oh, God."

After the fourth shot, she utters "aw" and Smith says to her: "You're dying."

Now, Kosovich said, she's on the basement floor, "helpless," and Smith calls her "bitch." The sound of Smith dragging her to his workshop is audible and she is heard gasping.

One minute and 15 seconds later, again calling her "bitch," Smith fired a shot beneath her chin and into her cranium, the prosecution contends.

"He shot Haile Kifer three times in the head," Kosovich told the judge. "There's no way that's self-defense."

The prosecutor noted that from the sound of the window breaking to when Brady came downstairs, seven minutes passed during which Smith could have called police.

At that, Smith's older brother, Bruce Smith of California, laughed in the courtroom. The prosecutor also quoted Smith's description of Kifer's death to police: "She gave out the death twitch; it works the same as in a beaver or deer," the prosecutor quoted Smith as saying.

"Oh, my God," one of the teens' family members whispered in the courtroom.

In asking for lower bail, Anderson's attorney, Steve Meshbesher, said Smith is a Little Falls native who retired after 16 years with the Department of Homeland Security in a computer job.

Meshbesher also said Smith had written a memo to the sheriff's office about his Oct. 27 burglary and others in the area. His basement door, on a walkout level, had been kicked in, and a lock broken, and guns, cash and other items stolen.

"He told the police his story because he wanted their assistance and guidance," Meshbesher said, calling Smith a concerned, good citizen.

Kosovich argued that Smith is a danger to the community, noting that "he admitted he sat with the bodies for 24 hours."

A neighbor, William Anderson, contacted the sheriff's office 24 hours after the slayings because Smith called him, asking if he knew a good attorney.

After the hearing, Brady's grandparents, Steve and Bonnie Schaeffel, said the bail should not have been lowered.

"That is not who you want to see walking down the street," Bonnie Schaeffel said.

She doesn't believe the cousins were involved in the earlier burglary at Smith's home, and said they would have deserved legal punishment for breaking in on Thanksgiving.

Instead, she said, they ran into an enraged homeowner who carried out "a vigilante-style murder of children."

http://www.startribu...61.html?refer=y

In Canada even after the recent amendments to the Criminal Code on self defence (The Citizen’s Arrest and Self-Defence Act) it is illegal to employ deadly force in defence of property as noted at the website of PM Harper:

Use of Deadly Force

The use of deadly force is only permitted in very exceptional circumstances — for example, where it is necessary to protect a person from death or grievous bodily harm.

The courts have clearly stated that deadly force is never considered reasonable in defence of property alone. The legislative reforms currently being proposed do not make any change to the law relating to deadly force.

Courts will therefore continue to make any necessary changes on a case-by-case basis, developing the common law if and where appropriate.

http://www.pm.gc.ca/...dia.asp?id=3966

[Wetcoaster]

Americans have guns? How fascinating please tell me more, why is this even news

[Common sense]

Americans have guns? How fascinating please tell me more, why is this even news

[Wetcoaster]

This is a good case of " they shouldn't have been there" sure this guy went over board, but if they didn't break into his house in the first place, they wouldn't have been shot.

Anyone who comes into my house uninvited better be able to run faster then 1100 feet per second.

[RUPERTKBD]

Happy new year!

http://sacramento.cb...old-sacramento/

[canadiancon]

Since when is property more important than a life (or two), even the life of a teen burglar?

And you will be facing murder charges if you did so.

[RUPERTKBD]

Because this is getting as sensationalized as it can get, especially with the 24/7 media machine. When some bomb goes off in Iraq or Syria or wherever there's a war, look for everyone to shut up about guns and talk about US-bad, other countries-good.