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(Value Of) Alex Edler to Philadelphia


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#1 Pears

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 02:07 AM

I figured this topic would create a decent discussion. We all know the Flyers' need of defensemen, so what would they be willing to give up for Alex Edler? I think any Edler deal to Philly would a number of these players/picks coming back to Vancouver in a package

- Sean Couturier
- Jakub Voracek
- Wayne Simmonds
- Max Talbot
- 2013 1st

I think this package would be the most the most appetizing for both teams:

To Vancouver: Sean Couturier, 2013 1st

To Philly: Alex Edler, Yann Sauve

Thoughts?
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#2 shawn antoski

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:10 AM

.

Edited by shawn antoski, 31 December 2012 - 03:12 AM.

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#3 Pears

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:15 AM

.

Excellent input.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#4 JensenFan2011

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 05:21 AM

I figured this topic would create a decent discussion. We all know the Flyers' need of defensemen, so what would they be willing to give up for Alex Edler? I think any Edler deal to Philly would a number of these players/picks coming back to Vancouver in a package

- Sean Couturier
- Jakub Voracek
- Wayne Simmonds
- Max Talbot
- 2013 1st

I think this package would be the most the most appetizing for both teams:

To Vancouver: Sean Couturier, 2013 1st

To Philly: Alex Edler, Yann Sauve

Thoughts?


Couturier and a 1st is a little high of an asking price for a D man who will be a UFA soon anyways
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#5 Pears

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 05:33 AM

Couturier and a 1st is a little high of an asking price for a D man who will be a UFA soon anyways

I'm sure if we signed Edler to the contract he wanted he could get a return like that. But again his rights could probably get a decent return.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#6 JensenFan2011

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 05:37 AM

I'm sure if we signed Edler to the contract he wanted he could get a return like that. But again his rights could probably get a decent return.


true but if we are able to sign edler we should keep him i mean our defensive core isn't good enough for us to lose our best D
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#7 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 07:13 AM

I figured this topic would create a decent discussion. We all know the Flyers' need of defensemen, so what would they be willing to give up for Alex Edler? I think any Edler deal to Philly would a number of these players/picks coming back to Vancouver in a package

- Sean Couturier
- Jakub Voracek
- Wayne Simmonds
- Max Talbot
- 2013 1st

I think this package would be the most the most appetizing for both teams:

To Vancouver: Sean Couturier, 2013 1st

To Philly: Alex Edler, Yann Sauve

Thoughts?


Philly has been the one club that has invested in blockbuster deals like this; confident they can sign their man and willing to put their wallet on the table in discussions. And also put up good players to get an asset they want (see Pronger and Forsburg acquisitions). Very aggressive, so I could see it happening in that context.

I'm starting to believe MG would make deals like this. Last year he made the Booth AND Hodgson deals that were all about asset's. I do not believe we have as good a chance to win this year with Couturiere instead of Edler. I don't think we should do it. It leaves too big a hole on D, and more deals to be made to be competitive!

But it also offers great value???





Couturier and a 1st is a little high of an asking price for a D man who will be a UFA soon anyways


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 31 December 2012 - 09:48 AM.

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#8 sampy

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 09:04 AM

Simmonds please. The guy scores and punches with the best of them.
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#9 Pears

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 09:09 AM

Simmonds please. The guy scores and punches with the best of them.

I'd love to get Simmonds but I don't think Philly will give him up unless someone overpays.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#10 D-Money

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 10:02 AM

Simmonds please. The guy scores and punches with the best of them.


With the cap going down, and a new Edler AND Giroux deal coming, Philly will need to send cap dollars the other way. Even if they buy out Briere, they will still need some room.

Because of this, I imagine the main component of a return package would be either Simmonds, Voracek, or Coburn. If an extension for Edler was already agreed upon, any one of those guys and a 1st or 2nd round pick would be a decent return.
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#11 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 10:23 AM

Buyout Briere??? :wacko: :sick: :sadno:

With the cap going down, and a new Edler AND Giroux deal coming, Philly will need to send cap dollars the other way. Even if they buy out Briere, they will still need some room.

Because of this, I imagine the main component of a return package would be either Simmonds, Voracek, or Coburn. If an extension for Edler was already agreed upon, any one of those guys and a 1st or 2nd round pick would be a decent return.


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#12 eretz canucks

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 10:40 AM

I don't want to move Edler but if we had to.

To Philly
Edler
Raymond
Sauve


To Van
The Schenns
Or
Couturier
Coburn
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#13 Blame Obama

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 11:15 AM

talbot please
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#14 wizeman

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 11:42 AM

I think Edler is going to be a UFA in July .

Even if the lockout is lifted and can be traded, how long will it be before there is a trade deadline? 6 weeks?

I think if we for second rounder for Edlers rights, there wold be some takers. Otherwise, we are going to have to either re sign him for big bucks or let him walk for nothing.
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#15 D-Money

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 11:54 AM

Buyout Briere???   :wacko: :sick: :sadno:


Definitely.

Briere's been money for Philly, but:

1) He'll be 36 years old at the start of the 2013-14 season.
2) He'll have a 6.5 million dollar cap hit for two more seasons.
3) He'll only have 5 million salary dollars left to pay out.

Make no mistake, if Flyers get an amnesty buyout, they'll use it on Briere.

Edited by D-Money, 31 December 2012 - 12:02 PM.

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#16 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:08 PM

What I aways wonder about is why it has to be looked at as a loss if he walks?

Lets assume he commands $6.5 mill on the open market, but it would not matter for the exercise if we assumed less or more. If we do not sign him we have an expired contract. You have to believe management has planned around the likelihood we will have to offer him $6.5.

We can then plan to spend the $6.5 elsewhere or better. That could be a trade for an established value, say Couturiere and a first (and any money left over) as proposed. Or it could be a different free agent. But even if we let him walk, the same potential is there. In the NBA one of the most sought after deals is an expiring contract; so you can go after Lebron, or Dwight Howard, or whomever...

Now if we trade him before the deadline we are going to get waaaaay more than the 2knd round pick proposed below. But if we keep him through the play off's for a run at the cup; we may recover only a 2knd round pick for his rights but hopefully we also have a cup and his expiring contract (to spend next year).

We make roughly $20 mill on a cup run; so my logic says unless MG thinks we do not have a shot (like last year when MG knew Kesler was injured) there is more to be had keeping Edler than trading him for prospects!

Its why the Hodgson deal looked so fishy; we could not possibly have been trying to win last year.

I think Edler is going to be a UFA in July .

Even if the lockout is lifted and can be traded, how long will it be before there is a trade deadline? 6 weeks?

I think if we for second rounder for Edlers rights, there wold be some takers. Otherwise, we are going to have to either re sign him for big bucks or let him walk for nothing.


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 31 December 2012 - 12:14 PM.

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#17 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:12 PM

Do they still not have to buyout the whole value of the contract? I'm not aware of a lower buyout because he's a certain age...

And if it were true, wouldn't they try and save some real dollars (someone actually coughs when they write cheques, its not all cap space contrary to popular belief) and buyout Chris Pronger???

Definitely.

Briere's been money for Philly, but:

1) He'll be 36 years old at the start of the 2013-14 season.
2) He'll have a 6.5 million dollar cap hit for two more seasons.
3) He'll only have 5 million salary dollars left to pay out.

Make no mistake, if Flyers get an amnesty buyout, they'll use it on Briere.


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#18 c00kies

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:22 PM

Philly has been the one club that has invested in blockbuster deals like this; confident they can sign their man and willing to put their wallet on the table in discussions. And also put up good players to get an asset they want (see Pronger and Forsburg acquisitions). Very aggressive, so I could see it happening in that context.

I'm starting to believe MG would make deals like this.  Last year he made the Booth AND Hodgson deals that were all about asset's. I do not believe we have as good a chance to win this year with Couturiere instead of Edler.  I don't think we should do it. It leaves too big a hole on D, and more deals to be made to be competitive!  

But it also offers great value???


But could they be more hesitant after the Hamhuis debacle.
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#19 D-Money

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:43 PM

Do they still not have to buyout the whole value of the contract?  I'm not aware of a lower buyout because he's a certain age...

And if it were true, wouldn't they try and save some real dollars (someone actually coughs when they write cheques, its not all cap space contrary to popular belief) and buyout Chris Pronger???


Briere's actual salary is 3 million for 2013-14, and 2 million for 2014-15. That's all the actual cash they need to spend. But it frees up 6.5 million of cap each year.

His age doesn't affect the buyout. I only pointed it out, because at that age, you shouldn't expect him to perform to the level as he has in the past.

Pronger won't be bought out, because you can't buyout someone on injury. Even if you could though, his salary is covered by insurance, and while on IR the Flyers get cap relief for him. So why would they bother?
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#20 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 01:14 PM

Seems like the gravy years for the owner; seeing as Briere is still top 6 on virtually all teams... I still do not see the buyout?

But I stand corrected on the details; thanx!

Briere's actual salary is 3 million for 2013-14, and 2 million for 2014-15. That's all the actual cash they need to spend. But it frees up 6.5 million of cap each year.

His age doesn't affect the buyout. I only pointed it out, because at that age, you shouldn't expect him to perform to the level as he has in the past.

Pronger won't be bought out, because you can't buyout someone on injury. Even if you could though, his salary is covered by insurance, and while on IR the Flyers get cap relief for him. So why would they bother?


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#21 D-Money

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 02:46 PM

Seems like the gravy years for the owner; seeing as Briere is still top 6 on virtually all teams... I still do not see the buyout?

But I stand corrected on the details; thanx!


If the Flyers were a team with an internal budget, then yeah, Briere for 3 and 2 mil would be gravy. But they are a cap team, and will need to create cap room to extend Giroux and land that elusive top-pairing D-man (especially with Pronger hurt, Timonen getting old, and Carle leaving).

If Briere didn't have a no-trade clause, the Flyers would gladly trade him to a budget team needing to get to the floor. But he does have a full NMC.
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#22 Pears

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:25 PM

Definitely.

Briere's been money for Philly, but:

1) He'll be 36 years old at the start of the 2013-14 season.
2) He'll have a 6.5 million dollar cap hit for two more seasons.
3) He'll only have 5 million salary dollars left to pay out.

Make no mistake, if Flyers get an amnesty buyout, they'll use it on Briere.

The Flyers will not buy out Briere. If anything they'll trade him for picks and/or prospects.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#23 thad

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 04:20 PM

Schroeder edler for couturier simmonds

I think they would do it if they knew they could sign him
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#24 mrsasaki

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 09:52 AM

I'm not a fan of trading Edler, but here's what I've come up with:

-Wayne Simmonds
-Max Talbot
-Braden Coburn

For

-Alex Edler
-Yann Sauve
-2nd round pick

Maybe a little biased towards us, but whatever

Vancouver:
Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - Simmonds
Higgins - Talbot - Hansen
Volpatti - Lapierre - Weise

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Coburn - Garrison
Ballard - Tanev

Luongo - Schneider

Philadelphia:
Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek
Schenn - Couturier - Briere
Read - Betts - Fedetenko
Rinaldo - Shelley - Sestito

Edler - Timonen
Schenn - Mezsaros
Grossman - Gervais

Bryzgalov
Leighton

I'm sure Philly would sign a 3C

Edited by mrsasaki, 01 January 2013 - 10:00 AM.

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#25 oldnews

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 03:43 PM

Couturier and a 1st is a little high of an asking price for a D man who will be a UFA soon anyways


I don't agree.
Remember the Kaberle deal?
A veteran all star defenseman like Edler, UFA approaching or not, is certainly worth a prospect and pick imo.
I think Couturier and a first is more than reasonable.
I don't think it's necessary to throw Sauve into that deal.
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#26 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 04:00 PM

To Vancouver: Sean Couturier, 2013 1st

To Philly: Alex Edler, Yann Sauve

Thoughts?

Not even close.

Visnovsky who is a UFA at the end of the season was traded to the Islanders for a 2nd, that's it.

Couturier is worth at least the value of a top 10 pick and you have another 1st? Keep dreaming.
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#27 Pears

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 04:11 PM

Not even close.

Visnovsky who is a UFA at the end of the season was traded to the Islanders for a 2nd, that's it.

Couturier is worth at least the value of a top 10 pick and you have another 1st? Keep dreaming.

Comparing Visnovsky and Edler is like comparing apples and oranges, absolutely no similarites.

Visnovsky
- 36 year old
- Declining and on the verge of retirement
- Only has 3 productive seasons
- Former all-star

Edler
- 26 year old coming off a 49 point season
- All-star, top 2/4 D man
- Just entering his prime

You can keep dreaming if you don't think teams like Philly needing defensemen wouldn't pay a premium price if one like Edler became available, both you and King undervalue the Canucks.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#28 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 05:40 PM

Comparing Visnovsky and Edler is like comparing apples and oranges, absolutely no similarites.

Visnovsky
- 36 year old
- Declining and on the verge of retirement
- Only has 3 productive seasons
- Former all-star

Edler
- 26 year old coming off a 49 point season
- All-star, top 2/4 D man
- Just entering his prime

You can keep dreaming if you don't think teams like Philly needing defensemen wouldn't pay a premium price if one like Edler became available, both you and King undervalue the Canucks.

Age and prime doesn't matter. It's how well the player is expected to perform for the length of time a team has their rights. In this case, it's both just one season.

Edler had 49 points in 82 games on a good team. Visnovsky had 27 points in 68 games on a bad team.

I am giving Edler the benefit of the doubt that he will have a similarly productive season next year and Visnovsky will have a slightly better one. AT MOST, Edler will fetch a 1st rounder. There can be a conditional 2nd rounder put in place if Edler re-signs.

If I had a team I could trade a 2nd for Visnovsky and a 1st for Edler, I'd trade the 2nd for Visnovsky.
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#29 Pears

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 05:46 PM

Age and prime doesn't matter. It's how well the player is expected to perform for the length of time a team has their rights. In this case, it's both just one season.

Age and prime doesn't matter?? What is wrong with you? Of course age and prime matter. Would you rather have a 36 year old on the verge of retirement or a 26 year old top 2, physical, offensive D man just entering his prime and can play for 10-15 more years? If they had to choose 99% of hockey fans would take Edler over Visnovsky any day of the week.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#30 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 06:10 PM

Age and prime doesn't matter?? What is wrong with you? Of course age and prime matter. Would you rather have a 36 year old on the verge of retirement or a 26 year old top 2, physical, offensive D man just entering his prime and can play for 10-15 more years? If they had to choose 99% of hockey fans would take Edler over Visnovsky any day of the week.

It doesn't matter if Edler is the next Bobby Orr if he doesn't sign with the Flyers.

His value is determined for what he brings to a team for the length of his contract which is one year. You can add in whatever value you think is negotiating rights would garner which is between the time the season is done and when he becomes UFA. The latest CBA proposal has an interview and offering period for UFAs which means whatever slight value a players negotiating rights had is lessened.

You're value for Edler is extremely overrated.
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