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(Value Of) Alex Edler to Philadelphia


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#31 DownUndaCanuck

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 07:22 PM

If we lose Edler we better get a defenceman back in return. We're thin enough on the blueline as it is, and Philly have quite a few physical guys that we could use.

Edler and maybe a late pick for Grossman or Coburn and a 1st round pick or someone like Matt Read.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Higgins - Kesler - Booth
Read - Lapierre - Hansen
Raymond - Malhotra - Kassian

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Coburn - Garrison
Ballard - Tanev
Alberts

Suddenly we've transformed our defence from a very mobile, fragile, small one in 2011 that was battered and bruised to one of the most physical D's in the league, akin to that of Boston and LA that cruised through the playoffs. With the Sedins up front they'll all be capable of scoring anyway, but with that size back there they'll be much better suited for the playoffs. Also our forwards are far deeper when you throw a 40-point player into the mix.
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#32 oldnews

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 08:27 PM

Kaberle was a declining rental, comparable offensive upside, nowhere near as good of a two-way player, nor as physical as Edler.
He cost Boston a first round pick, a first round prospect and another second round pick.
Edler's worth more.
Philly threw huge money at Weber, and if the issue with Edler re-signing is money and term... they pony up like anyone.
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#33 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 08:42 PM

If we lose Edler we better get a defenceman back in return. We're thin enough on the blueline as it is, and Philly have quite a few physical guys that we could use.

Edler and maybe a late pick for Grossman or Coburn and a 1st round pick or someone like Matt Read.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Higgins - Kesler - Booth
Read - Lapierre - Hansen
Raymond - Malhotra - Kassian

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Coburn - Garrison
Ballard - Tanev
Alberts

Suddenly we've transformed our defence from a very mobile, fragile, small one in 2011 that was battered and bruised to one of the most physical D's in the league, akin to that of Boston and LA that cruised through the playoffs. With the Sedins up front they'll all be capable of scoring anyway, but with that size back there they'll be much better suited for the playoffs. Also our forwards are far deeper when you throw a 40-point player into the mix.

Coburn > value than Edler.

Kaberle was a declining rental, comparable offensive upside, nowhere near as good of a two-way player, nor as physical as Edler.
He cost Boston a first round pick, a first round prospect and another second round pick.
Edler's worth more.
Philly threw huge money at Weber, and if the issue with Edler re-signing is money and term... they pony up like anyone.

Are the Canucks going to trade Edler at the deadline?
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#34 Pears

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 08:44 PM

Coburn > value than Edler.


Are the Canucks going to trade Edler at the deadline?

If they were offered Couturier and a 1st and they knew they couldn't re-sign him then I don't know why they wouldn't take it.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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#35 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 07:02 AM

If they were offered Couturier and a 1st and they knew they couldn't re-sign him then I don't know why they wouldn't take it.

Philadelphia isn't going to be trading Couturier.

The Flyers are set down the middle for next 10 years.

-Giroux-
-Schenn-
-Couturier-
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#36 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 07:42 AM

Not even close.

Visnovsky who is a UFA at the end of the season was traded to the Islanders for a 2nd, that's it.

Couturier is worth at least the value of a top 10 pick and you have another 1st? Keep dreaming.

Age and prime doesn't matter. It's how well the player is expected to perform for the length of time a team has their rights. In this case, it's both just one season.

Edler had 49 points in 82 games on a good team. Visnovsky had 27 points in 68 games on a bad team.

I am giving Edler the benefit of the doubt that he will have a similarly productive season next year and Visnovsky will have a slightly better one. AT MOST, Edler will fetch a 1st rounder. There can be a conditional 2nd rounder put in place if Edler re-signs.

If I had a team I could trade a 2nd for Visnovsky and a 1st for Edler, I'd trade the 2nd for Visnovsky.




Visnovsky is an old declining player, who had a terrible year and was a shadow of his former self, he also is overpaid and is a UFA at the end of the year.

So he was traded for a high 2nd (4th Overall) Which is essentially close value to a late first Which Philly's pick woulld be.

Then you say Edler isn't worth more than a 1st from Philly which is a late first, which isn't alot higher than the pick Anaheim got for Visnosvky who is well past his prime, declining, overpaid and a pending UFA. Edler is only one of those things a pending UFA.

So essentially you are saying Edler isn't worth a ton more than Visnovsky when you really break it down, which is completely false.

If Visnovsky can get the 34th Pick, Edler will get more than just a late 1st. (25th-30th)
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#37 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 07:45 AM

If we lose Edler we better get a defenceman back in return. We're thin enough on the blueline as it is, and Philly have quite a few physical guys that we could use.

Edler and maybe a late pick for Grossman or Coburn and a 1st round pick or someone like Matt Read.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Higgins - Kesler - Booth
Read - Lapierre - Hansen
Raymond - Malhotra - Kassian

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Coburn - Garrison
Ballard - Tanev
Alberts

Suddenly we've transformed our defence from a very mobile, fragile, small one in 2011 that was battered and bruised to one of the most physical D's in the league, akin to that of Boston and LA that cruised through the playoffs. With the Sedins up front they'll all be capable of scoring anyway, but with that size back there they'll be much better suited for the playoffs. Also our forwards are far deeper when you throw a 40-point player into the mix.


I would much rather keep Edler who can do everything Coburn can do with added demsions and the upside to become much better.

Getting a late 1st or 40 Point player like Read doesn't appeal to make up for that since we have Kassian, Schroeder, Jensen in our system who can fill that role and potentially bring similar production, aswell you consider we could get a player like Kadri or Bozak for Luongo who could also bring that production, then to go a step futher we have Manny, Raymond and Lappy all of which could bring what Read brings or close to it.
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#38 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 07:47 AM

Coburn > value than Edler.

Are the Canucks going to trade Edler at the deadline?


No Edler > Coburn.

And I doubt we would, I doubt we would trade him at the deadline even if we didn't have him signed. Trading him is a last resort IMO cause resigning him brings much more value to our team than anything we could get in return.
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#39 oldnews

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 12:13 PM

Coburn > value than Edler.


Are the Canucks going to trade Edler at the deadline?


As usual you let your anti-Canuck blinders cloud your judgement, claiming that Coburn > value than Edler.
Edler was 6th in scoring, 15th in Norris voting.
Coburn didn't finish in the top 50 and wasn't on the Norris map.
Edler's UFA status does not drop his value as dramatically as you wish.
The evidence of that is and will remain very clear.
If Edler will re-sign I doubt he will be moved.
Regardless, he is easily worth what people in this thread are proposing.

Your authority to say what Holmgren would or would not do is nothing.
Evidently you missed the move he made to acquire Weber. It's no mystery that Holmgren wants and needs to create some balance on that club. Like the Oil, they are very top heavy with a suspect blueline and average goaltending.
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#40 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:03 AM

As usual you let your anti-Canuck blinders cloud your judgement, claiming that Coburn > value than Edler.
Edler was 6th in scoring, 15th in Norris voting.
Coburn didn't finish in the top 50 and wasn't on the Norris map.
Edler's UFA status does not drop his value as dramatically as you wish.
The evidence of that is and will remain very clear.
If Edler will re-sign I doubt he will be moved.
Regardless, he is easily worth what people in this thread are proposing.

Your authority to say what Holmgren would or would not do is nothing.
Evidently you missed the move he made to acquire Weber. It's no mystery that Holmgren wants and needs to create some balance on that club. Like the Oil, they are very top heavy with a suspect blueline and average goaltending.

Are you trying to compare Weber to Edler? If I said that because Erhoff was let go and Pahlsson was also let go it means that obviously want to spend money on puck moving defenceman or Swedes, would that make sense?

Obviously if Gillis re-signs Edler he won't be traded. People suggesting he would be signed then traded are ridiculous unless they mentioning that as part of the new CBA where teams can retain cap or salary.
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#41 Tangerines

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:34 AM

I would trade Edler for Couturier and a 1st in a nano second. Looks like Philly could also use a goalie. Blockbuster maybe?

Edler
Luongo
Raymond
2013 2nd

for

Couturier
2013 1st
Coburn
Read


Is that fair?

Edited by JohnLennon, 03 January 2013 - 12:36 AM.

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#42 thad

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 01:00 AM

Are you trying to compare Weber to Edler? If I said that because Erhoff was let go and Pahlsson was also let go it means that obviously want to spend money on puck moving defenceman or Swedes, would that make sense?

Obviously if Gillis re-signs Edler he won't be traded. People suggesting he would be signed then traded are ridiculous unless they mentioning that as part of the new CBA where teams can retain cap or salary.


It's clearly going over your head. He's not comparing the 2, he was supporting his statement about philly being in dire need of a defense upgrade by pointing that Holmgren is notorious for putting his money where his mouth is.

How is that not blatantly obvious?
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#43 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 01:45 AM

It's clearly going over your head. He's not comparing the 2, he was supporting his statement about philly being in dire need of a defense upgrade by pointing that Holmgren is notorious for putting his money where his mouth is.

How is that not blatantly obvious?

You are the one missing the point friend.

Holgrem wants an elite elite defenceman to replace Pronger. Edler is not that. They aren't going to mortgage their future for a UFA #3 defenceman.
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#44 playboi19

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 02:42 AM

Edler for Brayden Schenn.

I wish.
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#45 eretz canucks

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:05 AM

Edler
Schroeder

for

Couturier
Coburn
2nd 2014
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#46 eretz canucks

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:16 AM

this above trade
is pretty even for both teams, my preference would be to resign elder
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#47 thad

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 01:21 PM

You are the one missing the point friend.

Holgrem wants an elite elite defenceman to replace Pronger. Edler is not that. They aren't going to mortgage their future for a UFA #3 defenceman.


No you were missing his point and asking a completely irrelevant question regarding him comparing weber to edler, which he was not.

Of course he wants a double elite super defenseman, every team does, but pronger 2000's aren't mass produced in a Chinese factory.

Holmgren isn't going to sit around and wait for the next big dman to become availible. If he can get an all star dman about to enter his prime then he's going to try. Whether he is willing to part with big pieces to get him is left to be seen. Looking at his history though, you can tell he is willing to make bold moves to get the man he wants. Looking at gillis history, we know he is going to ask for the moon. Now with those 2 creeping to common ground on a block buster deal, its not that out of the question to say maybe Holmgren would submit to the temptation of adding an allstar 26yr old, 40 point dman and pull the trigger on the trade sending us one of his 3 young centers.

Not saying your completely wrong but look at the history. If he feels he can sign Alex edler, I have no doubt in my mind he would consider moving couturier plus for him. I'd say the team is better in 2 years with a beefed up defense and a veteran 3rd line center signing than 3 young centers and a weak defense. These guys are poised to win a Blackhawks penguins young Stanley cup if they improve the back end.
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#48 D-Money

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 03:04 PM

/\
This is true. Flyers need a top-pairing D-man desperately.

That said, I doubt we'd be able to pry Couturier out of them. They'll need to send back more salary too. Also, expecting a Ballard buy-out, so we'll definitely need another defenseman.

Coburn + 1st would seem more likely. And that's only at the beginning of the season. If it's just negotiating rights, don't expect much more than what Hamhuis and Ehrhoff were fetching when they were being passed around pre-July 1st.
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#49 thad

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 03:22 PM

/\
This is true. Flyers need a top-pairing D-man desperately.

That said, I doubt we'd be able to pry Couturier out of them. They'll need to send back more salary too. Also, expecting a Ballard buy-out, so we'll definitely need another defenseman.

Coburn + 1st would seem more likely. And that's only at the beginning of the season. If it's just negotiating rights, don't expect much more than what Hamhuis and Ehrhoff were fetching when they were being passed around pre-July 1st.


I'm not so sure they wouldn't give him up. They got giroux schenn and couturier. Obviously they're going to posture and say no way, those 3 are off the table. But we're not going to trade a 26 yr old all star dman for anything less than a blue chip prospect coming back. So they look to find common ground with other pieces.

What if we counter with someone like gaunce included. That is a better fit long term for a 3rd line center. We get possibly a future number one center and they replace him with a guy that will fall into place. Now we're getting ripped there so they need to add more but it's a way to negotiate to a fair deal for both. Neither guy is willing to get fleeced but there is a deal there that can help both teams.

Edler gaunce

For

Couturier simmonds

Edler is better than simmonds for immediate help
Couturier is better that gaunce for future help
Add in an evening out pick or 2

It balances out but the kicker is the uncertainty of edler resigning. I understand that but holmgrens got huge balls and wouldn't be surprised to see something like that.

Edit.. As for us needing a dman, that's where the luongo trade comes in... I hate to see edler go but if we can get a decent replacement for him via luongo, then I think this is the best possible way to maximize return on the situation. Get someone to bite and over pay for edler and get good replacement by maybe over paying with a Lu package. Or even just go with an adequate replacement for Lu straight up

Edited by thad, 03 January 2013 - 03:28 PM.

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#50 eretz canucks

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 03:53 PM

change gaunce to schroeder
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#51 thad

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 04:18 PM

change gaunce to schroeder


That was actually a proposal I made a while ago and would way rather do that. I used gaunce because of the strong opinions on Philly not willing to give up couturier for edler. Gaunce fills the role of what SC would leave much better for them in the future than Schroeder would and is a more enticing and fair option considering Edlers ufa status.

This is more me giving in a little bit more in fake negotiation with the hard liners saying no way Philly does it.

What do you think about this deal connorfuturegm?

If you are Philly and pretty sure you can sign edler would you consider this deal or do you think you can get better option elsewhere without giving up a bluechip for your future on defense?
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#52 D-Money

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 04:19 PM

change gaunce to schroeder


And Edler to Ballard?

You can't expect to get quality players for spare parts.
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#53 eretz canucks

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:14 PM

That was actually a proposal I made a while ago and would way rather do that. I used gaunce because of the strong opinions on Philly not willing to give up couturier for edler. Gaunce fills the role of what SC would leave much better for them in the future than Schroeder would and is a more enticing and fair option considering Edlers ufa status.

This is more me giving in a little bit more in fake negotiation with the hard liners saying no way Philly does it.

What do you think about this deal connorfuturegm?

If you are Philly and pretty sure you can sign edler would you consider this deal or do you think you can get better option elsewhere without giving up a bluechip for your future on defense?


very fair, i respect that, but we want to stay big down the middle, gaunce is an overpayment
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#54 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 10:26 PM

That was actually a proposal I made a while ago and would way rather do that. I used gaunce because of the strong opinions on Philly not willing to give up couturier for edler. Gaunce fills the role of what SC would leave much better for them in the future than Schroeder would and is a more enticing and fair option considering Edlers ufa status.

This is more me giving in a little bit more in fake negotiation with the hard liners saying no way Philly does it.

What do you think about this deal connorfuturegm?

If you are Philly and pretty sure you can sign edler would you consider this deal or do you think you can get better option elsewhere without giving up a bluechip for your future on defense?

The Flyers refused to trade one of Schenn or Couturier for Weber. He isn't going to trade Couturier for Edler.
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#55 thad

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:31 PM

The Flyers refused to trade one of Schenn or Couturier for Weber. He isn't going to trade Couturier for Edler.


They were asking for a hell of a lot more than just couturier of course they said no. I presented a fair trade that makes sense for both teams
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#56 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:14 AM

They were asking for a hell of a lot more than just couturier of course they said no. I presented a fair trade that makes sense for both teams

Not only will they not want to trade Couturier because he's a big part of their future, he is also cheap.

Schnieder, Gaunce, 1st FOR Getzlaf

Would you?
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#57 thad

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 02:58 AM

Not only will they not want to trade Couturier because he's a big part of their future, he is also cheap.

Schnieder, Gaunce, 1st FOR Getzlaf

Would you?

Not a chance, that isn't a very good comparison. For one, we do not need a 1st or 2nd line center therefore we do not need to consider moving key assets for a glaring hole we do not have. Now lets say henrik mysteriously vanishes, Daniel can't find him anywhere then maybe you gotta look at something like that. Definitely not getzlaf who's been on a serious downward spiral in the last while.

Ok then knowing holmgrens habits, how do you see him fixing his backend with a long term core addition.
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#58 Pears

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 07:59 AM

Not only will they not want to trade Couturier because he's a big part of their future, he is also cheap.

Schnieder, Gaunce, 1st FOR Getzlaf

Would you?

Jonas Hiller says hi. No reason why either team would do this, also a vast underpayment for Schneider. Unless we can work out some kind of blockbuster with Anaheim to bring Perry over as well I don't see this deal happening.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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#59 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 09:24 AM

Not a chance, that isn't a very good comparison. For one, we do not need a 1st or 2nd line center therefore we do not need to consider moving key assets for a glaring hole we do not have. Now lets say henrik mysteriously vanishes, Daniel can't find him anywhere then maybe you gotta look at something like that. Definitely not getzlaf who's been on a serious downward spiral in the last while.

Ok then knowing holmgrens habits, how do you see him fixing his backend with a long term core addition.

Most teams have untouchables. On the Flyers it's Giroux, Schenn and Couturier.

Their defence isn't bad by any means, it is actually quite similar to the Canucks defence corps. Holgrem wants that #1 defenceman. Maybe he goes after a younger defenceman that can blossom into a #1 guy like Myers or Ekman-Larsson. Maybe he goes after a #2/3 guy like Edler , Bouwmeester or Campbell. He isn't going to trade on of his young centres though.

Philadelphia is going to seriously consider buying out Bryzgalov. I'm not sure if they're going to have the balls to do it. If they buyout Bryzgalov they would have to enter the Luongo sweepstakes..
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#60 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 09:26 AM

Jonas Hiller says hi. No reason why either team would do this, also a vast underpayment for Schneider. Unless we can work out some kind of blockbuster with Anaheim to bring Perry over as well I don't see this deal happening.

It was a comparable deal. Getzalf is more established and higher valued than Edler. It was to show you that a bunch of people are overvaluing Edler.
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