Multiple Warning Signs Surrounding Zack Kassian

[Canuck Surfer]

Booth will be fine; but what they need is a right winger who can play on their line.

The actual perfect compliment might be still defensively capable Burrows, who is also a pretty good passer after years with the twins. But Kassian or someone would have to chow they could play first line!

Actually, the Booth trade was largely cap driven for the Panthers I'm afraid. They may have taken back similar cap for last year but their goal was to shed a longer term contract at those big dollars. That is pretty obvious I think.

Booth could be a good player for the Canucks if they get him away from Kesler.

[The Kassassin Train]

Where did I say "disaster"? Does "warning signs" mean "disaster"?

I don't care what's leading him to this performance, I care that it's actually taking place. Fewer goals, fewer points, fewer SOG, and higher PIMs. Most people around here were expecting him to be dominant in the AHL this year (I was not one of them). He's not performing as well as he was last year. That's why I'm starting this discussion.

Soooo. You're basing your argument on stats and not his actual play? That's what Smashin' was asking what in his play.

Your rebuttle has all to do with stats and not his actual play. Higher PIM is a complaint? So what do you want from him you want him to be a Lucic type player yet barely little to no PIMs? This is now laughable.

[TheFan66]

I am simply amazed at how fast people are willing to declare that the sky is falling around here. Kassian will be just fine. Very few young players are ready immediately. Developement takes time.

Shultz's numbers are impressive, however I would be curious to know the actual numbers. IE: of his goals how many are empty netters, how many on PP etc same with assists how many are 2nd assists. Also it cannot be denied that he has NHL talent playing with him Eberle/Hall/Nugent-Hopkins, add in that opposing coaches when faced with this lineup certainly focus their defensive efforts towards the forwards rather than him. This will now change, so how will he fair with more attention paid to him. We will see.

[BenDrinkin]

The bottom line is that we need to make Kassian work, because the league has geared toward toughness to win. This may be just because the teams they wanted to win played that way, but that's a conspiracy theory and I hope its not true. But if they do change the rules again once we get tough, I will be going back to NFL as I did this year ( and it was awesome! )

Hopefully they keep consistent, changing the rules to fit their agenda is abhorrent, but not out of the realm of possibility.

Here's to Kassian's development.

[The Kassassin Train]

I understand what you're saying and agree, but this is just hockey, and those numbers are pretty important - just ask Jason Garrison, who earned himself a 6-year contract after having a breakout season in 2011-12.

When it's a highly-touted prospect, at an age like Zack's, with an opportunity that Zack's got, and his numbers are declining, call me crazy, but I do think that that is a valid concern that is worth discussing.

So you think Garrisson was paid that amount for his stats and nothing to do with his actual play? That's laughable. Even if he doesn't put up the points he is a great shut down addition to this team.

Again, stop being a stat watcher and tell me what about his game is flawed. Go on. I will wait.

[oldnews]

I am simply amazed at how fast people are willing to declare that the sky is falling around here. Kassian will be just fine. Very few young players are ready immediately. Developement takes time.

Shultz's numbers are impressive, however I would be curious to know the actual numbers. IE: of his goals how many are empty netters, how many on PP etc same with assists how many are 2nd assists. Also it cannot be denied that he has NHL talent playing with him Eberle/Hall/Nugent-Hopkins, add in that opposing coaches when faced with this lineup certainly focus their defensive efforts towards the forwards rather than him. This will now change, so how will he fair with more attention paid to him. We will see.

People like King read too many Tony Gallagher doomsday prophecies.

[oldnews]

The Canucks are obviously a very deep team - no credible observer could deny that.

Their greatest needs are well known - 2nd line RW, third line C.

Their pending move is to trade their veteran goaltender.

Their best prospects are a RW, a C and a goaltender - Kassian, Schroeder and Lack.

Their next wave of prospects include another outstanding RW who is likely closer to the NHL than people realize - Jensen - and another big prototypical 2 or 3 C in Gaunce.

They have a young defensive blueliner in Tanev, a puck moving pp quarterback in Connauton, a solid stay at home guy in Sauve and a young rising star in Corrado. Their top 4 is outstanding, their third pairing is as good as any, and they have a depth guy like Alberts who would certainly crack most top 6s.

Even without assets to trade, they'd be in very good shape.

The reality is that they have a Luongo return and an abundance of left wingers - the return if they move Luongo and a player like Raymond will be more than enough to add depth at the positions they want.

Regardless at center they already have Hank, Kesler, Lapierre, Malhotra, Schroeder, Ebbet, Gaunce....

At RW they already have Burrows, Hansen, Kassian, and a handful of fourth line depth players in addition to Lapierre who is likely to play on the 'fourth'/shutdown line again.

Most teams would love to have these 'problems'.

[Nino]

So you think Garrisson was paid that amount for his stats and nothing to do with his actual play? That's laughable. Even if he doesn't put up the points he is a great shut down addition to this team.

Again, stop being a stat watcher and tell me what about his game is flawed. Go on. I will wait.

He shows no drive or errencey and often looks like he is unaware or floating on plays. Will not use his size on the boards to dig up pucks

As far as the sky is falling, I think the fact is that there is no sky at this point, he needs to start working hard and start on the third or 4th. He may be good if he learns how to battle. It's more that homers are trying to create a sky for him when in fact he's a rookie that is still unproven and has some glaring faults that he needs to work on before he should make the team. I hope he works out don't get me wrong but stop the dam overhyping.

[The Kassassin Train]

No one is saying it isn't impressive, I'm very impressed but no one is looking at that and thinking he will be able to step in and do it in the NHL like you are.

Very Very Impressive in the AHL but it's the AHL, when he faces stronger competition on a lesser team I doubt he will be able to continue it.

A great example of this would be MAG.

[The Kassassin Train]

He shows no drive or errencey and often looks like he is unaware or floating on plays. Will not use his size on the boards to dig up pucks

As far as the sky is falling, I think the fact is that there is no sky at this point, he needs to start working hard and start on the third or 4th. He may be good if he learns how to battle. It's more that homers are trying to create a sky for him when in fact he's a rookie that is still unproven and has some glaring faults that he needs to work on before he should make the team. I hope he works out don't get me wrong but stop the dam overhyping.

Really now? Because from what I have heard and reports from a lot of subscribers to the games are completely opposite to what you say about Kassian. Perhaps a few games that there were, but for the most part from what I have read and heard from much more reliable sources and it's the complete opposite.

'No Drive' and 'Will not use his size on the boards to dig up pucks' is absolutely incorrect. Don't believe me? Ask @theshaves on Twitter. He's more than wiling to open up convo with Canuck fans. He's the play-by-play for the Wolves. I can agree with the floating comment on a couple of games I have seen.

But I laugh at your 'No drive' and 'Will not use his size on the boards to dig up pucks'. That's so far off base that it's ridiculous. The expectations for a 2nd year raw rookie is absolutely hilarious on these boards.

For all those saying he doesn't shoot enough I beg to differ. I'm only using stats to back up an argument not as an argument like many are doing here...

"Kassian leads all Wolves forwards in total shots and is averaging 2.7 shots per game."

Source: http://vansunsportsb...is-groove-back/

In the middle of the article is where you will find your quote. So again is it Kassian's game or is it the system that Arniel is implementing?

Furthermore, I'm not comparing Kassian to Kesler's playing abilities as they are completely different, but Kesler had 57 points during the lockout in 2005. Did we panic then? No. Kassian is not a blue-chip offensive sniper that many think he is. He's doing what I expected of him on a team that isn't stacked with offensive talent. That's open up space for his teammates while getting physical without being out of position. A 50 - 55 pt season with 175 - 200 hits and 80 - 100 PIMS for the right reason is what I expect out of Kass this year in the A if he's there the whole season.

[Smashian Kassian]

A great example of this would be MAG.

Yeah he could really help the Wolves right now though, I don't know why we let him go then signed Mullen. I guess to try to pickup Schultz but I would rather have MAG than Mullen.

[oldnews]

Thornton was traded because he is not the player that you want to lead your team if you want to win a cup, look how it worked out for Boston and SJ. A bag of pucks you say? Some times a team takes a loss because they realize that the player is not going to help them win. Lou could be added to this list, great player but not going to help you win a cup. Cody was not at that point and it was a bad trade no matter how you chop it up. His value would have been much better in the summer and we wouldn't be bickering about weather zack is dead weight or not.

I agree regarding Thornton. I'm not a fan. I'd have done the same thing Boston did, which is move him and his fat wallet out. I'd move him again if I were San Jose, and in a hurry. The bag of pucks part were not my words - they were a quote of King otES. Sturm and Stuart were nowhere near as bad as King is implying, but he likes to pretend he 'knows' everything in hindsight.

I am in the keep Schneider camp.

As far as the Hodgson trade, I think the Canucks did the right thing at the right time and I won't be hindsighting the deal - I think it was a wise move for all kinds of reasons.

[WolfxHaley]

I feel like this is KotES and his followers vs. Oldnews and everyone with at least some hockey knowledge.

[King of the ES]

So you think Garrisson was paid that amount for his stats and nothing to do with his actual play? That's laughable. Even if he doesn't put up the points he is a great shut down addition to this team.

You are simply out to lunch if you don't think that Garrison's performance last year - almost exclusively - earned him a 6-year deal.

Had he repeated his 2010-11 production, 5 goals and 18 points, he may have earned himself an Aaron Rome-esque deal. Not a 6-year, $4.6M per year deal. Those are the types of contracts that you give to franchise, cornerstone-esque guys. I guess that's what you'd call Jason Garrison? Because Mike Gillis certainly has, with this signing. And I think he'll be wrong.

[King of the ES]

A great example of this would be MAG.

Yeah, except that he's 25 years old, is in his 5th season in the AHL, and has 73 games in the NHL to his resume.

Schultz is a 22 year-old rookie professional that had just Eric Lindros'd the team that drafted him to go and sign in a heavily scrutinized market.

I hope you can appreciate the difference.

[surtur]

You are simply out to lunch if you don't think that Garrison's performance last year - almost exclusively - earned him a 6-year deal.

Had he repeated his 2010-11 production, 5 goals and 18 points, he may have earned himself an Aaron Rome-esque deal. Not a 6-year, $4.6M per year deal. Those are the types of contracts that you give to franchise, cornerstone-esque guys. I guess that's what you'd call Jason Garrison? Because Mike Gillis certainly has, with this signing. And I think he'll be wrong.

He got the deal because he is a known reliable shut down D'man with decent size and after last season has show he can contribute at the other end of the ice.. plus he was one of only how many top dmen avail...

but hey i guess players are only judged on there latest season stats. heck the twins might as well retire after that horrid decline in there stats last season.

[oldnews]

You are simply out to lunch if you don't think that Garrison's performance last year - almost exclusively - earned him a 6-year deal.

Had he repeated his 2010-11 production, 5 goals and 18 points, he may have earned himself an Aaron Rome-esque deal. Not a 6-year, $4.6M per year deal. Those are the types of contracts that you give to franchise, cornerstone-esque guys. I guess that's what you'd call Jason Garrison? Because Mike Gillis certainly has, with this signing. And I think he'll be wrong.

LOLZZZZZZZZ

[King of the ES]

He got the deal because he is a known reliable shut down D'man with decent size and after last season has show he can contribute at the other end of the ice.. plus he was one of only how many top dmen avail...

Really?

2010-11 was his first full NHL season - as an undrafted 26 year-old. And Florida was a pitiful hockey team that just wanted to save money.

What's "known" about a guy like that?

[King of the ES]

Ridiculous King. 4.6 million is not cornerstone, franchisesque money. You embellish.

When it's something that you've committed to for 6 years, my friend, it is.

6-year contracts are now going to be the league maximum. You only give maximum contracts to guys that are basically risk-free, which Jason Garrison absolutely is not. A total gamble, that I think will fail.

Gillis got sucked into a weak UFA market for defenceman, and the Garrison contract is one that I am highly confident he'll regret.

[oldnews]

When it's something that you've committed to for 6 years, my friend, it is.

6-year contracts are now going to be the league maximum. You only give maximum contracts to guys that are basically risk-free, which Jason Garrison absolutely is not. A total gamble, that I think will fail.

Gillis got sucked into a weak UFA market for defenceman, and the Garrison contract is one that I am highly confident he'll regret.

Ridiculous. 6 years in a UFA frenzy that saw 13 year deals....

Comparables (other than the rest of the Canucks blueline):

Tyutin

Pitkanen

Komisarek

Hainsey

Kaberle

Martin

Jovanoski

Streit

Regehr

Gilbert

If Garrison only scored 5 goals and 18 points as in his first year as a shutdown defenseman, he'd still have far better numbers than the likes of shut down comparables like Regehr (1 goal, 4 assists) or Komisarek (exact same 1 and 4).

Try (too hard) again King.