CanucksSayEh Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Garrison is getting Oprah rich. He's gonna be a boss though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 Ridiculous. 6 years in a UFA frenzy that saw 13 year deals.... Comparables (other than the rest of the Canucks blueline): Tyutin Pitkanen Komisarek Hainsey Kaberle Martin Jovanoski Streit Regehr Gilbert If Garrison only scored 5 goals and 18 points as in his first year as a shutdown defenseman, he'd still have far better numbers than the likes of shut down comparables like Regehr (1 goal, 4 assists) or Komisarek (exact same 1 and 4). Try (too hard) again King. Are any of those guys that you've listed contracts that you'd consider good? Does a bunch of bad contracts make it smart to go and sign one of them yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Are any of those guys that you've listed contracts that you'd consider good? Does a bunch of bad contracts make it smart to go and sign one of them yourself? Are any of those considered cornerstone/franchise defensemen? If you want to talk bad cornerstone contracts, we ought to be talking about Phaneuf or Bouwmeester. Hamhius, Bieksa, Garrison - damn good contracts!!! The best on that list of comparables, hands down. Well done MG! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 Are any of those considered cornerstone/franchise defensemen? They're considered mistakes/anchor contracts, a club which Jason Garrison will soon be a card-carrying member of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEAN HARNETT Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Now that Kassian's essentially played the same amount of games in the AHL this season as he did last, I thought I'd have a look at the numbers to see how exactly he's "developing" (generous term). WARNING: this ain't pretty 2011-12: 30 GP, 15 G, 26 P, +4, 94 SOG, 31 PIM 2012-13: 28 GP, 6 G, 18 P, -1, 72 SOG, 59 PIM By my calculations, this amounts to the following data comparatives:60% year-over-year reduction in goals31% year-over-year reduction in points18% year-over-year reduction in SOG/game90% year-over-year increase in PIMs. And, to be honest, the two things that are of the most concern to me are the decline in SOG and the increase in PIM. There's really no explanation for getting less SOG as a 22 year-old AHL sophomore than as a 21 year-old AHL rookie. And this SOG figure is even inflated, as Kass did have 7 SOG last game, bringing up his average significantly. And while it's nice that he does seem willing to throw the body, at times, and drop the gloves, at times, I really hope that we didn't trade Cody Hodgson for a bottom-six goon that will be lucky to get 5 - 10 goals per year in limited minutes. I'm beginning to wonder if Kassian has a bit of "Kyle Beach" in him; capable of so much, too stupid to realize it and in the penalty box way, way too much. Let's not forget that Kassian was hand held by the Sedin's in the off-season to try and get his training habits in shape (not a good sign), and even went on to be a healthy scratch in 1 (or more, I'm not sure) game, also (clearly) not a good sign. Who else is concerned? Kassian would THRIVE playing with Ryan Kesler at center. Kassian is basically the best prospect playing on the Wovles right now. If he didnt have to carry the puck up the ice himself, he would be even better. He needs talented players around him to succeed, just like most other good players in the NHL. Kassian will never be a player who can dominate by himself, but he will be a very good piece to good team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jägermeister Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 They're considered mistakes/anchor contracts, a club which Jason Garrison will soon be a card-carrying member of. Well I'm glad you think that. Even if Garrison goes back to his 10/11 offensive production, but continues to play the same defensive game he has played since entering the league, his contract (while it might not be great) won't be nearly as bad as you think it will be. I think the issue here might be that you don't understand the value of a defensive defenceman because they don't have flashy stats, and stats are everything to your evaluation of who is a good player or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 They're considered mistakes/anchor contracts, a club which Jason Garrison will soon be a card-carrying member of. Which ones are King? Who is in the club again? Phanuef. Bouwmeester. If you add three million to Garrison's cap hit and he turns out to be a dud. Get back to us in three years and let us know if he was a half-dud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Well I'm glad you think that. Even if Garrison goes back to his 10/11 offensive production, but continues to play the same defencive game he has played since entering the league, his contract (while it might not be great) won't be nearly as bad as you think it will be. I think the issue here might be that you don't understand the value of a defensive defenceman because they don't have flashy stats, and stats are everything to your evaluation of who is a good player or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 Which ones are King? Who is in the club again? Phanuef. Bouwmeester. If you add three million to Garrison's cap hit and he turns out to be a dud. Get back to us in three years and let us know if he was a half-dud. Simple math is clearly not a strength of yours. Phaneuf is $1.9M more expensive on a cap-hit basis, Bouwmeester $2.1M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Simple math is clearly not a strength of yours. Phaneuf is $1.9M more expensive on a cap-hit basis, Bouwmeester $2.1M. Which one is a franchise cornerstone haha? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 Well I'm glad you think that. Even if Garrison goes back to his 10/11 offensive production, but continues to play the same defensive game he has played since entering the league, his contract (while it might not be great) won't be nearly as bad as you think it will be. I think the issue here might be that you don't understand the value of a defensive defenceman because they don't have flashy stats, and stats are everything to your evaluation of who is a good player or not. What "defensive game" is that? You're aware that 2011-12 was basically his second year in the league, right? 2009-10: 39 GP, 2 G, 8 P, +52010-11: 73 GP, 5 G, 18 P, -22011-12: 77 GP, 16 G, 33 P, +6 That's the extent of his NHL career, at 28 years of age. So I'm not sure where you're getting this "defensive defenceman" reputation from, as the only thing that anybody on the Florida Panthers were shutting down in either 2009-10 or 2010-11 were their playoff hopes, mathematically, by roughly mid-January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkeeterHansen Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 "Fans". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jägermeister Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 What "defensive game" is that? You're aware that 2011-12 was basically his second year in the league, right?2009-10: 39 GP, 2 G, 8 P, +52010-11: 73 GP, 5 G, 18 P, -22011-12: 77 GP, 16 G, 33 P, +6 That's the extent of his NHL career, at 28 years of age. So I'm not sure where you're getting this "defensive defenceman" reputation from, as the only thing that anybody on the Florida Panthers were shutting down in either 2009-10 or 2010-11 were their playoff hopes, mathematically, by roughly mid-January. And there you go looking at his personal stats and the Panthers playoff hopes... "mathematically". And what difference does it make that he has only played 2 and a half seasons? That doesn't change that fact that he plays a good defensive game. I hope you realize how much that argument contradicts your belief that Schultz is going to be a star before he has even played in the NHL. (I'm not going to get in an argument about Schultz because I do think he will be good) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 What "defensive game" is that? You're aware that 2011-12 was basically his second year in the league, right?2009-10: 39 GP, 2 G, 8 P, +52010-11: 73 GP, 5 G, 18 P, -22011-12: 77 GP, 16 G, 33 P, +6 That's the extent of his NHL career, at 28 years of age. So I'm not sure where you're getting this "defensive defenceman" reputation from, as the only thing that anybody on the Florida Panthers were shutting down in either 2009-10 or 2010-11 were their playoff hopes, mathematically, by roughly mid-January. So what you are suggesting is that Schultz will be a bust, and it was a lucky thing that Gillis wasn't able to land him? regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 What "defensive game" is that? You're aware that 2011-12 was basically his second year in the league, right?2009-10: 39 GP, 2 G, 8 P, +52010-11: 73 GP, 5 G, 18 P, -22011-12: 77 GP, 16 G, 33 P, +6 That's the extent of his NHL career, at 28 years of age. So I'm not sure where you're getting this "defensive defenceman" reputation from, as the only thing that anybody on the Florida Panthers were shutting down in either 2009-10 or 2010-11 were their playoff hopes, mathematically, by roughly mid-January. You are consistent King. The Panthers were last in the EC in 2010/11 and yet 17 teams in the NHL gave up more goals than them. Garrison had the best +/- on the Panthers last year. Clearly you are Mr Who-cares-what-you've-done-for-me-lately. But but Phaneuf used to be good in 2006... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 So what you are suggesting is that Schultz will be a bust, and it was a lucky thing that Gillis wasn't able to land him? regards, G. yeah Garrison only has three NHL seasons under his belt his 4.6 is franchisesque cornerstone overpayment money but Schultz a 22 year old with a month or two in the AHL under his belt, playing with Eberle, Hall, RNH his 3.75 is.... ironing: King starts threads to boohoo that the Canucks didn't sign Schultz boohoo what did Gillis dooooo wrrrrrronnnnngggggg? this kid is gonna be, might be, is gonna maybe prove someday..... LLLOOOOLLLLLZZZZZZZ!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cromeslab Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I bet Shultz doesn't amount to anything significant for the next 2 seasons the Oilers are just too weak on D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kassassin Train Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 What "defensive game" is that? You're aware that 2011-12 was basically his second year in the league, right?2009-10: 39 GP, 2 G, 8 P, +52010-11: 73 GP, 5 G, 18 P, -22011-12: 77 GP, 16 G, 33 P, +6 That's the extent of his NHL career, at 28 years of age. So I'm not sure where you're getting this "defensive defenceman" reputation from, as the only thing that anybody on the Florida Panthers were shutting down in either 2009-10 or 2010-11 were their playoff hopes, mathematically, by roughly mid-January. Since you're so keen on stats, let's use corsi stats which are a far more accurate presentation than the pathetic +/- that you use. http://www.theglobea.../article576301/ If you have any other questions feel free to consult http://behindthenet.ca/howto.php. Now do you still have any questions? You see what I did here? I used stats to BACK UP an argument not USED to make an argument which is what skews your argument dramatically. Let alone the pathetic +/- stat. I'm still waiting for your rebuttal as to this since your OP was pretty much the same argument to the other poster who claimed Kassian had no drive nor was he producing enough. Go on I'll wait. Really now? Because from what I have heard and reports from a lot of subscribers to the games are completely opposite to what you say about Kassian. Perhaps a few games that there were, but for the most part from what I have read and heard from much more reliable sources and it's the complete opposite. 'No Drive' and 'Will not use his size on the boards to dig up pucks' is absolutely incorrect. Don't believe me? Ask @theshaves on Twitter. He's more than wiling to open up convo with Canuck fans. He's the play-by-play for the Wolves. I can agree with the floating comment on a couple of games I have seen. But I laugh at your 'No drive' and 'Will not use his size on the boards to dig up pucks'. That's so far off base that it's ridiculous. The expectations for a 2nd year raw rookie is absolutely hilarious on these boards. For all those saying he doesn't shoot enough I beg to differ. I'm only using stats to back up an argument not as an argument like many are doing here... "Kassian leads all Wolves forwards in total shots and is averaging 2.7 shots per game." Source: http://vansunsportsb...is-groove-back/ In the middle of the article is where you will find your quote. So again is it Kassian's game or is it the system that Arniel is implementing? Furthermore, I'm not comparing Kassian to Kesler's playing abilities as they are completely different, but Kesler had 57 points during the lockout in 2005. Did we panic then? No. Kassian is not a blue-chip offensive sniper that many think he is. He's doing what I expected of him on a team that isn't stacked with offensive talent. That's open up space for his teammates while getting physical without being out of position. A 50 - 55 pt season with 175 - 200 hits and 80 - 100 PIMS for the right reason is what I expect out of Kass this year in the A if he's there the whole season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamJamIam Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bossram Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Now that Kassian's essentially played the same amount of games in the AHL this season as he did last, I thought I'd have a look at the numbers to see how exactly he's "developing" (generous term). WARNING: this ain't pretty 2011-12: 30 GP, 15 G, 26 P, +4, 94 SOG, 31 PIM 2012-13: 28 GP, 6 G, 18 P, -1, 72 SOG, 59 PIM By my calculations, this amounts to the following data comparatives:60% year-over-year reduction in goals31% year-over-year reduction in points18% year-over-year reduction in SOG/game90% year-over-year increase in PIMs. And, to be honest, the two things that are of the most concern to me are the decline in SOG and the increase in PIM. There's really no explanation for getting less SOG as a 22 year-old AHL sophomore than as a 21 year-old AHL rookie. And this SOG figure is even inflated, as Kass did have 7 SOG last game, bringing up his average significantly. And while it's nice that he does seem willing to throw the body, at times, and drop the gloves, at times, I really hope that we didn't trade Cody Hodgson for a bottom-six goon that will be lucky to get 5 - 10 goals per year in limited minutes. I'm beginning to wonder if Kassian has a bit of "Kyle Beach" in him; capable of so much, too stupid to realize it and in the penalty box way, way too much. Let's not forget that Kassian was hand held by the Sedin's in the off-season to try and get his training habits in shape (not a good sign), and even went on to be a healthy scratch in 1 (or more, I'm not sure) game, also (clearly) not a good sign. Who else is concerned? The Wolves are a terrible offensive team, so the while the decline in Kassian's stats are offputting, they're not terribly disconcerting. What I am more concerned about is Kassian's consistency. Whenever I watch him play in the AHL I always get the sense he is just a lazy player. Sometimes he is a dominant force, but at other times (too often) I see weak backchecking, a defensive liability and all around lack of effort. With the tools he has: the hands, size and decent enough skating, Kassian should be able to impose himself on the opposition. More often than not I'll see him just try to shrug players off with his body, one-hand the puck and then end up losing the puck or making a terrible one-arm pass. The number will come eventually. And he still has a lot of potential. But I want to see him put in a more consistent effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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