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Multiple Warning Signs Surrounding Zack Kassian


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#421 Blackberries

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:55 AM

Can't wait for Zack to prove you wrong King.
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Movember Kassian

#422 Down by the River

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:13 AM

It will be nice to see Kas play with talented players on a team with some actual sense of a system. Despite the AHL being good for a lot of players' development, I think Arniel didn't do him any favours.
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OMG we could've had McKeown!

I think Virtanen was a terrible pick given that he's out for 6 months which will hinder his development. You don't pick someone at #6 under that circumstance, along with the fact that he was given a 3/5 IQ (aka he's dumb). 

God dammit Benning. WHY VIRTANEN? Terrible move.

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#423 miles.p

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:15 AM

it's so hard to reason with canucks fan, they have all sorts of homer glasses on. It has blinded them from the truth completely.
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#424 Gollumpus

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:27 AM

That's total crap. You're suggesting that Buffalo expected a rookie to waltz in and "push them to the playoffs"?


So, by the same token, you are equally critical of people who say that the deal was a failure for the Canucks in that Kassian did not put the team on his back and carry it through to the finals, right?

regards,
G.
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#425 Gollumpus

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:29 AM

it's so hard to reason with canucks fan, they have all sorts of homer glasses on. It has blinded them from the truth completely.


Yeah, that's so true. I just wouldn't even try if I were you.

Maybe you would have a much a nicer time on the Leafs boards. I hear they're much more level headed over there. :)


regards,
G.
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#426 King of the ES

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:34 AM

So, by the same token, you are equally critical of people who say that the deal was a failure for the Canucks in that Kassian did not put the team on his back and carry it through to the finals, right?


Of course. But I'm pretty sure - 100% sure, actually - that Cody Hodgson would not have been benched repeatedly, including in the playoffs, so I can understand fan frustration in that respect.
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#427 King of the ES

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:38 AM

Can't wait for Zack to prove you wrong King.


This is the exact stuff that bothers me. Have I ever said that he was going to be a bust, or that the trade made no sense? NO. The timing didn't make sense, that's my only criticism. I've always said that it was a reasonable gamble for Mike Gillis to have taken (if done at a better time - like the off-season).

Because I'm bringing up the undeniable reality that his numbers have regressed year-over-year in the AHL, I'm suddenly anti-Kassian.
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#428 Gollumpus

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:54 AM

Of course.


Hmm, and yet haven't you been critical of the Kassian trade and that he wasn't prominent in last season's playoffs? If nothing else, I do not recall you ever stating that critics of the trade were being unreasonable in their opinions.


But I'm pretty sure - 100% sure, actually - that Cody Hodgson would not have been benched repeatedly, including in the playoffs, so I can understand fan frustration in that respect.


But I'm pretty sure - 100% sure, actually - that Cody Hodgson would not have made any kind of significant impact to team success over the final part of the season and into the playoffs. He might have generated some points, which would look good for his personal stat sheet, but would that personal success have translated into two more wins for the Canucks vs the Kings? I do not believe that would have been the case.

regards,
G.
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#429 Gollumpus

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:06 AM

Because I'm bringing up the undeniable reality that his numbers have regressed year-over-year in the AHL, I'm suddenly anti-Kassian.


Yup, and any explanation of why those numbers are what they are merely excuses and not worthy of discussion, right?

regards,
G.
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#430 surtur

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:29 AM

Because I'm bringing up the undeniable reality that his numbers have regressed year-over-year in the AHL, I'm suddenly anti-Kassian.

pretty sure you have made it very evident you are not a fan of Kassian, way before you ever started this thread.
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#431 King of the ES

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:25 PM

But I'm pretty sure - 100% sure, actually - that Cody Hodgson would not have made any kind of significant impact to team success over the final part of the season and into the playoffs.


One of the most foolish statements that I've seen you make, and I've seen you propose a Purcell/Aulie/1st return for Luongo.

Cody always stepped up in big games. Detroit & Boston immediately come to mind. Led WJC in scoring. Clutch player. To say that he wouldn't have had an impact is foolish - he already had the 3rd most goals on the team!!
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#432 Tangerines

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 02:18 PM

Hey King lets hope the Canucks give the kid a chance to prove himself this year with a fresh, new season. I'm sure he is more familiar with his surroundings now, and the enviroment within our organization. I am a huge fan of Kassian, and I think he'll be great for us, but instead of being so concerned already, how about we be a little patient and let time tell us if we should worry or not. After all 20 points in 28 games isn't that bad in a better AHL (do to lock out). If this kid happens to be producing these kind of numbers in the NHL I think we will all be estatic! And like others on here have mentioned it isn't always about how many points a player gets to prove his worth, it about bringing a variety of elements to the table, and Kass has a number of attributes that can help the Canucks in the near future..
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#433 oldnews

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 02:34 PM

Hey King lets hope the Canucks give the kid a chance to prove himself this year with a fresh, new season. I'm sure he is more familiar with his surroundings now, and the enviroment within our organization. I am a huge fan of Kassian, and I think he'll be great for us, but instead of being so concerned already, how about we be a little patient and let time tell us if we should worry or not. After all 20 points in 28 games isn't that bad in a better AHL (do to lock out). If this kid happens to be producing these kind of numbers in the NHL I think we will all be estatic! And like others on here have mentioned it isn't always about how many points a player gets to prove his worth, it about bringing a variety of elements to the table, and Kass has a number of attributes that can help the Canucks in the near future..


Yes - that translates into .71 points per game.
Better than Hodgson's 30 points in 52 games for the Moose at the same age - .57 ppg - and he was -12.

Yet we never hear the end of King pumping Hodgson's tires.
Looking forward to seeing Kassian play with some quality NHLers.
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#434 surtur

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 02:43 PM

Yes - that translates into .71 points per game.
Better than Hodgson's 30 points in 52 games for the Moose at the same age - .57 ppg - and he was -12.

Yet we never hear the end of King pumping Hodgson's tires.
Looking forward to seeing Kassian play with some quality NHLers.

and if he does make the team having a hectic short season might be just what he needs to work on becoming a consistent player.
knowing every game is a big game maybe we see him make an impact if not he can spend some more time in the AHL.
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#435 BananaMash

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 02:46 PM

People who forget that Hodgson wasn't having stud-like seasons in the AHL prior to his breakout in Vancouver are silly.
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#436 playboi19

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 02:48 PM

It's going to hilarious watching Hodgson attempt to be a 1st line center with the Sabres in 2 weeks. :bigblush:
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#437 Gollumpus

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:52 PM

One of the most foolish statements that I've seen you make, and I've seen you propose a Purcell/Aulie/1st return for Luongo.


That comment cut me deep, King. I'm so very hurt that I might never be able to write another word.

That being said, I'm amazed that you still believe that Luongo will be traded for a bucket of used tape and spare parts.

And what's wrong with a Purcell/Aulie/1st for Luongo deal? TB has some depth on the right side and he would be the centerpiece of the deal. Aulie has potential, but he is by no means a prospect of the same calibre of a Rielly, or maybe even a Petrovic. And if memory serves, the pick was a 1st in either 2013 or 2014 (TB's choice). This is not as rich a deal as you make it out to be.



Cody always stepped up in big games. Detroit & Boston immediately come to mind. Led WJC in scoring. Clutch player. To say that he wouldn't have had an impact is foolish - he already had the 3rd most goals on the team!!


Yes, it was good that he stepped up in the big games, wasn't it? It was also a real drag that he wasn't stepping up during the other 90% of the games.

Was "Cody" stepping up during the latter part of the season (prior to the trade deadline)? And how was his footwork during Buffalo's drive to get to the playoffs? They had lots of big games where Hodgson was a no-show.

Yes, I'm sure that there are lots of reasons why Hodgson under-performed during this period, but we know that just like Kassian's drop off in production this year, these reasons would just be "excuses", right?


And who knows, this could be the last chance to try and get a straight answer from you: if Luongo's contract is so bad (due to Luongo's age, the remaining term on the deal, the cap hit, the salary still owed, and what-ever else there is), why would any team consider trying to acquire him?

You claim that even a good player with a terrible contract is worth-while picking up if the price is right, but that is really kind of contradictory when we look at it.

If the cap hit on Luongo's contract is as bad as you suggest, it will throw off the entire cap structure for the new team. What players (RFA's or UFA's) would go unsigned? How would the future of the team be negatively affected?

From a financial perspective, do you really mean to say that Burke will consider it a success if he dumped two years of Komisarek's cap hit in exchange for 10 years of Luongo's cap hit (and he he is going to play for the entire remaing term of his deal, right)?

This situation is not modified because you get a big contract player for a contract dump or even a short term cap dump in return for the incoming contract.

If the salary is so high, do the Leafs suddenly pay less if the Canucks agree to take Komisarek? Yes, it might help for the remaining 1.5 years left on Komisarek's deal, but what about the 8 years following?


If the deal is so bad, why would any other team pick it up?


regards,
G.
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#438 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:55 PM

...if he turns out to be like Milan Lucic, yes, that's true.

...if he turns out to be like any of the other "power forwards" sold to us by the Buffalo Sabres - Steve Bernier & Taylor Pyatt - then it will be a disaster. I think most will agree that Cody Hodgson is certainly a top-six player for the next decade, with All-Star potential. Him being slow today is not unlike what that Henrik Sedin guy was in his younger years.

Kassian is far more uncertain, far more boom/bust.


Top 6 potential yes, all-star potential... Maybe. He's not going to put up 80+ points or 40+ Goals but I could see 20-30 Goals and 50-70 Points consistently. As a realistic assesment. Upper level 2nd line center/border line 1st line center, I just don't think he has the overall game to be a surefire 1st liner.

And Henrik had less average icetime in his rookie year, and put up with alot more stuff and they still stayed, and part of Cody's skating issue's is that he has small legs, inturn a small stride. Henrik doesn't have that issue the twins worked at it, took all the criticism stayed in Vancouver and got better. IMO they easily have the most Character on the team, and Cody doesn't even compare to either Sedin in any aspect IMO.

Kassian will take more time to realize what he can really be, and once we get there it will be great. It will be more WCE Bertuzzi esque though than Lucic. Maybe not the same point totals in his prime but his skillset lines up alot more with Bertuzzi than Lucic.

Of course. But I'm pretty sure - 100% sure, actually - that Cody Hodgson would not have been benched repeatedly, including in the playoffs, so I can understand fan frustration in that respect.


You think Cody wouldn't have been benched?

AV would have limited him minutes in favor of Pahlsson, its AV. Think about that for a moment, Cody would have gotten reduced minutes, I can't see him not getting reduced minutes knowing AV likes defensively/checking 3rd lines. And well Cody isn't exactly either of those.

Cody would have started the playoffs by then after the embaressments that were games 1 & 2 (Which he would not have altered at all BTW) I could easily have seen us benching him in game 3 or 4 with the pressure on.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 06 January 2013 - 04:03 PM.

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#439 SamJamIam

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 04:09 PM

It's going to hilarious watching Hodgson attempt to be a 1st line center with the Sabres in 2 weeks. :bigblush:


Oh my god that will be wonderful. I'm gonna be sure to bump this thread once Hodgson starts getting owned.
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#440 Ugli Fruit

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 05:51 PM

Also:
Cody Hodgsons 08/09 season and his 09/10 season with Brampton in the OHL.
1.74 P/G --> 1.54 P/G
.81 G/G --> .62 G/G
.622PIM/G --> .692 PIM/G
So by your logic having a decline in that year would have automatically meant that Hodgson was going to be a bust too. Good on MG trading him away for anything at all!


Wasn't he injured that off-season?
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There we have it folks, we have literally blamed everyone for everything at this point


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#441 SamJamIam

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 06:00 PM

Wasn't he injured that off-season?


When wasn't he injured?
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#442 TheEhrhoffEffect

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 06:05 PM

Except, as I've already pointed out a few times, it was Buffalo shopping Kassian for a young center at the dealine. They were looking for an NHL ready center to push for the playoffs. Their need was immediate and they weren't going to wait until summer. Sometimes you have to make a trade when what you are looking for becomes available.

Source? Buffalo were 14th in the East at the deadline and were selling players like Gaustad for picks. They weren't pushing for the playoffs. The trade could have been done in the offseason.

Edited by TheEhrhoffEffect, 06 January 2013 - 06:25 PM.

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#443 Baggins

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 06:44 PM

That's total crap. You're suggesting that Buffalo expected a rookie to waltz in and "push them to the playoffs"?

Of course they would've made the trade in the summer. Gillis simply bought in to the false urgency.


From The Buffalo News....

Upper management apparently was thrilled when Regier completed the deal for Hodgson, the one-time poster boy for Canadian junior hockey. He was selected two picks ahead of Tyler Myers in 2008. The following year, he played on a line with John Tavares and led Canada in scoring on their march to a gold medal in the World Junior Championships.

The Sabres were desperate for help down the middle, and Hodgson could be the playmaker they needed. He had 16 goals and 33 points in 63 games, putting him on pace for 20 goals and 42 points for the season. Not bad considering he played on the third line behind Henrik Sedin and Ryan Kesler.

Hodgson is a right-handed shot, so you can envision him opening more ice and feeding left winger Thomas Vanek at some point in the future. He was on the Canucks’ second power-play unit, too. Perhaps he can find chemistry with Nathan Gerbe and Ville Leino in the coming years and Brad Boyes this season. Who knows? He could be a young Daniel Briere.
It could be an ideal fit."

http://buffalosabresnation.com/2012/02/28/codgsonkassian-swap-stupefies-vancouverbuffalo-press/


From an NHL.com writer....

Desperately needing to shore up the center position, Regier sent highly-regarded right wing Zach Kassian and young defenseman Marc-Andre Gragnani to the Vancouver Canucks in exchange for talented rookie Cody Hodgson and defenseman
Alexander Sulzer.

"The goal was when we evaluated our team, we knew that we had to get better and get better in the event if it meant taking a minor step back, then we were prepared to do it," Regier said. "It still allows us a run at the playoffs -- we are all aware of the odds against us -- but I think with Cody coming in, he will give us a good boost in the offensive side. We certainly lose Gaus' competitiveness, his size and thickness and his ability to play against the other team's top line, but we really felt going forward, with his pending unrestricted free agency, we needed to address the center position, the offense and the opportunity to get a young man like Cody."

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=619491
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#444 Baggins

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 06:52 PM

Source? Buffalo were 14th in the East at the deadline and were selling players like Gaustad for picks. They weren't pushing for the playoffs. The trade could have been done in the offseason.


They were six points out of 8th place and finished 3 points out.
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#445 oldnews

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 06:55 PM

"The goal was when we evaluated our team, we knew that we had to get better and get better in the event if it meant taking a minor step back, then we were prepared to do it," Regier said. "It still allows us a run at the playoffs -- we are all aware of the odds against us -- but I think with Cody coming in, he will give us a good boost in the offensive side. We certainly lose Gaus' competitiveness, his size and thickness and his ability to play against the other team's top line, but we really felt going forward, with his pending unrestricted free agency, we needed to address the center position, the offense and the opportunity to get a young man like Cody."

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=619491


teeheehee
sounded like Feaster did when he suggested Cammalleri was going to send his team on a playoff run...
Similar result.
What's funny is that Regehr changed his tune and was still looking very hard after realizing that perhaps Hodgson was not prepared to improve his club quite so dramatically.
"It's tough to know what will be available, but if we can find the right centerman it would help."
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#446 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 07:25 PM

it's so hard to reason with canucks fan, they have all sorts of homer glasses on. It has blinded them from the truth completely.


What is the truth? Enlighten us.
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#447 canucksnihilist

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 07:33 PM

not this topic again...

Kassian has shown he has the potential - shown during the first few games on the canucks where he hit, made room for line-mates, was a nasty sob and scored. Not everyone can play like he did those first 2-3 games. Small sample, but true.

And he has shown he doesn't know how to use that potential. Just like so many young kids.

Time will tell. Certainly Hodgson was more mature. I think Kassian has a larger upside if he gets his head on right. But that is an if.
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#448 nuck nit

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 07:42 PM

It's going to hilarious watching Hodgson attempt to be a 1st line center with the Sabres in 2 weeks. :bigblush:


Are you like 12 years old?
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#449 nuck nit

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 07:43 PM

Oh my god that will be wonderful. I'm gonna be sure to bump this thread once Hodgson starts getting owned.


And here is his younger brother.
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#450 nuck nit

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 07:44 PM

teeheehee


Sister?
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