Multiple Warning Signs Surrounding Zack Kassian

[oldnews]

You're either a lot younger than I thought, or you've got a very short-term memory.

Nobody expected the Sedin's to be what they've turned out to be. "Solid second-liners" was a description that followed them around everywhere. "Not 1st-line guys"..."not going to carry a team on their back"..."very good support players"..."the type to shy away in the playoffs"...etc. Even when they were drafted, they were not thought to be slam-dunk future superstars in the way that Cody Hodgson had been, especially in the year that followed us drafting him. Funny how Brian Burke is speaking in pure hyperbole when he references Luke Schenn, but pure truth with the Sedin's. Hmm. Derp.

I stand by my point that both the Sedin's and Kesler have far, far exceeded their expectations.

And you have a more creative 'memory'/imagination than I thought.

Here's some homework - go get us some actual quotes of people saying the Sedins were not projected to be 1st line types, that they were support staff, or whatever other nonsense you are putting in mythological people's mouths.

LOL regarding the slam-dunk superstar status of Hodgson. You are delusional.

[Gollumpus]

As for the rest of your post, you're just trying to ignore the fact (to feel better about your team's prospects - denial) that any time a prospect shows regressive numbers, it is not a good thing.

So when Hodgson's numbers declined in the latter half of last season, this was an indication in your eyes that he was a bust and it was a good thing that Gillis unloaded him when he did. I understand now.

I will again point out the fact that if Kassian, or Rodin, or anybody else, was leading the AHL in points, this place would be brimming with hype. Stats are conveniently meaningless when, and only when, they go in the opposite direction of the hometown bias.

And they are conveniently meaningful when, and only when, they go in the direction of your personal bias on this subject.

regards,

G.

[Jägermeister]

I stand by my point that both the Sedin's and Kesler have far, far exceeded their expectations.

And for what you seem to think Hodgson was supposed to be, I guess he hasn't been meeting them.

[King of the ES]

Here's some homework - go get us some actual quotes of people saying the Sedins were not projected to be 1st line types, that they were support staff, or whatever other nonsense you are putting in mythological people's mouths.

Here's a good account of what happened.

The Sedins are the most glaring example of why teams need to bepatient with their young players.

After being drafted in 1999, the Sedins decided against jumping directly to the NHL and played one final season in the Swedish Elite League for MODO. The twins led MODO in scoring with Daniel scoring 45 points in 50 games and Henrik besting him with 47 points in 50 games.

Forgoing the NHL as teenagers also allowed the pair to play in the World Junior Hockey Championship, which they surely wouldn't have been released for by the Canucks if they were in the NHL. Both ended up in the top-5 in tournament scoring for a Swedish team that finished fourth.

The twins also played in the IIHF World Hockey Championships that season and combined for 10 points in 7 games. Not many teenaged players get an opportunity to play in this type of tournament, especially those who have yet to play in the NHL.

The Sedins became NHL regulars the following season, 2000-01, at 20-years-old and had unspectacular rookie seasons. Henrik scored 9 goals and finished with 29 points, while Daniel had a better season with 20 goals, but only 34 points.

The next season it was Henrik who had the better year, increasing his goal total to 16 and accumulating 36 points, a modest increase of seven from his rookie season. Daniel experienced a sophomore slump, dropping to 9 goals and only 32 points, almost a mirror image of Henrik's rookie year.

The next season was not much different. Henrik's goal totals dropped to single digits—a whopping 8—but his point totals once again increased slightly, this time to 39. Daniel regained his goal-scoring touch, hitting 14, but settled for 31 points, again another decrease.

Three seasons in the league, approaching their 23rd birthdays, and the twins had yet to hit 40 points. Not exactly the type of production expected from top-5 draft picks.

Slow development, and not exactly linear. Not what fans in Vancouver were hoping for when Brian Burke pulled a rabbit out of his hat to get the twins on draft day four years earlier.

In 2003, people were openly wondering whether the Sedins were busts for the Canucks, despite the fact that the entire 1999 draft class was pretty terrible and the Sedins were actually few of those drafted to contribute anything at the NHL level.

Here's a quote at the time from a thread called "Sedins's 2nd line players, maybe even 3rd" on hockeyforum.com:

"And to think that the Canucks give up McCabe to draft them. Doesn't look like such a great move now."

Remember that quote when you read and comment in any thread about a young player. Do you want to be that idiot claiming the 23-year-old Sedins weren't worth Bryan McCabe?

In the thread there is some reasoned talk about patience, a lot more about trading the twins for nothing, and then some non-sequitursabout an aqua-fit class and some bad Swedish jokes. Sounds like the stupidity of a hockey forum.

The Sedins took a leap forward in 2003-04, most visibly Daniel, who broke the 50 point barrier and ended the season with 54, 20 points higher than his rookie season. Henrik didn't have the same type of leap, but once again featured the methodical steady increase in production that saw his career year of 39 points demolished by a 42 point campaign.

After this season people were a little more bullish on the Sedins—at least Daniel—but there was at least still a debate as to whether they were busts, and most people, even the more optimistic, saw them as good second-liners, but not much more.

Here's another doozy of a quote, this time on whether the Sedins are the best second-liners in the league and whether there is someone else from the 1999 draft that you would select over them. Of course, it's from hfboards.com:

"Have you ever heard of Mike Comrie? I'd easily take him over either. Maybe I'd take Daniel over him, maybe. And they're definitely not the best second liners in the NHL. Slava Kozlov and Mike Johnson are my votes for best second liners in the NHL..."

Wow. Pretty good stuff going on right there. Mike Comrie, Slava Kozlov, and Mike Johnson are all preferred over the Sedins.

Then came the lockout, the Sedins signed with MODO of the Swedish Elite League and had statistically worse seasons than they did when they were teenagers.

There was nothing to suggest the Sedins were going to become superstars, but they did.

After the lockout the Sedins took their big leap forward into superstardom, both cracking 70 points, turning Anson Carter into a 30-goal player, and making anyone who bemoaned the loss of Bryan McCabe feel like a complete idiot.

The Sedins completed six seasons of professional hockey, four in the NHL, and were 25-years-old when they had their huge breakout in their fifth NHL season. That's a long time. People want to write off young players after two seasons, sometimes even one, if they don't perform.

It took a long time for the Sedins to become the Sedins we know today, but the patience was well worth it. Since the lockout theSedins have combined for 1149 points in 1087 games. That's averages out to about 86 points a season for each player.

The Sedins have won two Art Ross trophies, Henrik won a Hart Trophy, Daniel won a Ted Lindsay Award (most outstanding player as judged by the players), and the two have combined for multiple First and Second All-Star Team awards.

I'd say that's about elite as they come.

Over time the Sedins went from lottery pick busts, to potential trade bait, then graduating to solid second-line players at max, before finally becoming the MVP-calibre players everyone always knew they would be.

Everyone gets excited for young players, but the moment they don't progress in a simple, upwardly linear fashion, people are more than eager to jump off the bandwagon.

The Sedins are obviously an extreme example of development gone right, but the example is poignant nonetheless.

Be patient. Keep the faith.

http://www.fiveminutesforfighting.com/2012/02/sedins-victory-for-patience.html

[Jägermeister]

Here's a good account of what happened.

Everyone gets excited for young players, but the moment they don't progress in a simple, upwardly linear fashion, people are more than eager to jump off the bandwagon.

The Sedins are obviously an extreme example of development gone right, but the example is poignant nonetheless.

Be patient. Keep the faith.

Please read what I have kept in your article and think about it in regards to your views on Kassian. Thanks.

[oldnews]

hockeyforum.com:

http://www.fiveminut...r-patience.html

LOL. KIng is quoting fans in threads in irrelevant discussions on random peripheral sites.

Pathetic.

I looked at your link - first thing that pops up is a Botox ad - the site is sponsored by Motorcycle.com... that's an odd demographic you fished that one out of there King.

[King of the ES]

LOL. KIng is quoting fans in threads in irrelevant discussions on random peripheral sites.

Pathetic.

You asked for quotes from people. Unfortunately, Twitter, "Deadline Day", etc., didn't exist back than.

Apparently, nor did your desire for hockey, as you're totally out to lunch if you think that the expectations for the Sedin's upon being drafted were to be anything close to Hart & Art Ross winners.

Here's more:an article discussing Stefan & Brendl, with the Sedin's briefly mentioned in the middle, essentially as secondary to the two to-be stars of the piece.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hockey/nhl/1999/draft/news/1999/06/25/nhlentrydraft_main/

[oldnews]

You asked for quotes from people. Unfortunately, Twitter, "Deadline Day", etc., didn't exist back than.

Apparently, nor did your desire for hockey, as you're totally out to lunch if you think that the expectations for the Sedin's upon being drafted were to be anything close to Hart & Art Ross winners.

Here's more:an article discussing Stefan & Brendl, with the Sedin's briefly mentioned in the middle, essentially as secondary to the two to-be stars of the piece.

http://sportsillustr...ntrydraft_main/

I asked for quotes - I assumed you were talking about your regular "authorities" - I didn't realize you were talking about any random person with a keyboard and a profile on a second rate hockey discussion forum...

Well done.

I'm convinced lol.

[oldnews]

Here's what Hockeysfuture had to say:

Canucks 1999 Draft Review

June 27th, 1999

"June 26th, 1999 could go down in the annals of Nuck history as the greatest moment in franchise history with the selection of the Sedin twins. "

That was obviously because the Canucks had just drafted a couple of support players for the second line LOL.

[Smashian Kassian]

How old were you in 1999? Total hogwash.

Think about it, our team was terrible around that time, then these 2 swedish twins come along who play together, who are unbelievably hyped, and they are rated #1 and #2, and you make some huge moves to get these guys, who do you expect? Them to be 2nd liners?

But since you won't believe that anyways watch this:

"Massive Exceptations"

"Hype"

"Carrying the future of this Franchise on there shoulders"

But no they weren't expected to be 1st line players and to be our franchise players, they were only expected to be 2nd liners, like most players rated #1 and #2.

Edit: Oh and that Article you dug up just proves why you should be patient with Zack and our other prospects, cause the Twins are making everyone who doubted them look like complete idiots now.

And BTW since Coho is expected to be Stamkos 2.0, hasn't he utterly failed to live up to expectations aswell by your logic??

By your logic it is a good thing we traded that bust.

[Smashian Kassian]

Please read what I have kept in your article and think about it in regards to your views on Kassian. Thanks.

Omg thank you. +1

He contradicts himself so much it's unbelievable.

[SamJamIam]

Time to rename the thread:

Multiple warning signs for Mods that King is a troll

[Baggins]

You're either a lot younger than I thought, or you've got a very short-term memory.

Nobody expected the Sedin's to be what they've turned out to be. "Solid second-liners" was a description that followed them around everywhere. "Not 1st-line guys"..."not going to carry a team on their back"..."very good support players"..."the type to shy away in the playoffs"...etc. Even when they were drafted, they were not thought to be slam-dunk future superstars in the way that Cody Hodgson had been, especially in the year that followed us drafting him. Funny how Brian Burke is speaking in pure hyperbole when he references Luke Schenn, but pure truth with the Sedin's. Hmm. Derp.

Let's see....

"Massive expectations"

"Mario Lemieux got that kind of hype, Eric Lindros got that kind of hype. There's a mountain of expectations already"

"Well these two young men are carrying the future of the franchise on their shoulders"

Yup, sounds like low expectations to me.

[oldnews]

+1 Baggins and Smashian.

But what were people on the Botox forums saying?

[Baggins]

Think about it, our team was terrible around that time, then these 2 swedish twins come along who play together, who are unbelievably hyped, and they are rated #1 and #2, and you make some huge moves to get these guys, who do you expect? Them to be 2nd liners?

But since you won't believe that anyways watch this:

"Massive Exceptations"

"Hype"

"Carrying the future of this Franchise on there shoulders"

But no they weren't expected to be 1st line players and to be our franchise players, they were only expected to be 2nd liners, like most players rated #1 and #2.

Edit: Oh and that Article you dug up just proves why you should be patient with Zack and our other prospects, cause the Twins are making everyone who doubted them look like complete idiots now.

And BTW since Coho is expected to be Stamkos 2.0, hasn't he utterly failed to live up to expectations aswell by your logic??

By your logic it is a good thing we traded that bust.

Ha! Beat me to it.

I remember very well the hype surrounding the Sedins. And how quick many on this board were to write them off as second liners at best. We should trade while they still have some value. Blah, blah, blah.

[nowhereman]

Cody's far fetched expectations initially from most fans was probably to possibly be a 1st liner, not a top tier 1st liner but a decent 1st liner.

Once everyone came to there sense they realized he is likely to be a solid 2nd line center.

Before the back injury stunted his development, Hodgson was the NHL's top ranked prospect and was seen, by many, as a potential PPG first line center. The Hodgson hype was huge, even outside Vancouver.

I don't think he was quite up to the Sedins' level of hype but most scouts had him ranked ahead of guys like Eberle, Karlsson, Pietrangelo, etc.

[Smashian Kassian]

Ha! Beat me to it.

I remember very well the hype surrounding the Sedins. And how quick many on this board were to write them off as second liners at best. We should trade while they still have some value. Blah, blah, blah.

Can't wait to hear what kind of crap excuse he can think of the respond to these.

It clearly proves he is aboslutely wrong.

Before the back injury stunted his development, Hodgson was the NHL's top ranked prospect and was seen, by many, as a potential PPG first line center. The Hodgson hype was huge, even outside Vancouver.

I don't think he was quite up to the Sedins' level of hype but most scouts had him ranked ahead of guys like Eberle, Karlsson, Pietrangelo, etc.

Yeah I agree.

[King of the ES]

Let's see....

"Massive expectations"

"Mario Lemieux got that kind of hype, Eric Lindros got that kind of hype. There's a mountain of expectations already"

"Well these two young men are carrying the future of the franchise on their shoulders"

Yup, sounds like low expectations to me.

This message brought to you by the man who would not trade Luke Schenn for 10 1st round picks.

And Burke comparing the hype surrounding the Sedin's to Mario Lemieux and Eric Lindros is utterly hysterical. Not even close, especially in the case of Lindros, who was heralded as the next Gretzky. I don't recall Henrik Sedin ever being expected to score 2,000 points over his NHL career.

The reality of that time was that the team was a disaster, tickets were easy to come by and cheap (exactly why Burke was trying to hype them up so much - to help sell tickets), and there were not a lot of Canuck fans sold on the idea that a couple of Swedish twins were going to save the franchise.

Sedin's have way, way exceeded their expectations.

[oldnews]

This message brought to you by the man who would not trade Luke Schenn for 10 1st round picks.

And Burke comparing the hype surrounding the Sedin's to Mario Lemieux and Eric Lindros is utterly hysterical. Not even close, especially in the case of Lindros, who was heralded as the next Gretzky. I don't recall Henrik Sedin ever being expected to score 2,000 points over his NHL career.

The reality of that time was that the team was a disaster, tickets were easy to come by and cheap (exactly why Burke was trying to hype them up so much - to help sell tickets), and there were not a lot of Canuck fans sold on the idea that a couple of Swedish twins were going to save the franchise.

Sedin's have way, way exceeded their expectations.

Now King says LIndros was heralded as "the next Gretzky" muahahaha!

And I suppose Yakupov is hailed as the next Patrick Roy!

Still waiting for some credible quotes King - posts on the Botox boards written four years after the draft don't qualify.

[nuck nit]

How old were you in 1999? Total hogwash.

Yeah,Kassian,how old were you in 1999?

Old news?

How many of you were as old as the Canucks as a franchise?