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Multiple Warning Signs Surrounding Zack Kassian


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#31 RAMBUTANS

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 02:51 PM

You've made several statements in this thread that demonstrate trolling.

It needs to stop.


Hi Deb, don't give into a lot of posters on CDC accussing others of trolling. King has demonstrated telling numbers which is hard to argue with. I'm not even sure why others have already dismissed it but it's crystal clear. I think something is not going right with Kassian or his development which the management needs to address.
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#32 canuck_trevor16

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 02:51 PM

You've made several statements in this thread that demonstrate trolling.

It needs to stop.


thank you should keep an eye more closely
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#33 RAMBUTANS

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 02:52 PM

thank you should keep an eye more closely


I think you should be objective and stop being a mini-mod. The mods know what they are doing.
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#34 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 02:55 PM

Now that Kassian's essentially played the same amount of games in the AHL this season as he did last, I thought I'd have a look at the numbers to see how exactly he's "developing" (generous term).

WARNING: this ain't pretty

2011-12: 30 GP, 15 G, 26 P, +4, 94 SOG, 31 PIM

2012-13: 28 GP, 6 G, 18 P, -1, 72 SOG, 59 PIM

By my calculations, this amounts to the following data comparatives:

  • 60% year-over-year reduction in goals
  • 31% year-over-year reduction in points
  • 18% year-over-year reduction in SOG/game
  • 90% year-over-year increase in PIMs.
And, to be honest, the two things that are of the most concern to me are the decline in SOG and the increase in PIM. There's really no explanation for getting less SOG as a 22 year-old AHL sophomore than as a 21 year-old AHL rookie. And this SOG figure is even inflated, as Kass did have 7 SOG last game, bringing up his average significantly.

And while it's nice that he does seem willing to throw the body, at times, and drop the gloves, at times, I really hope that we didn't trade Cody Hodgson for a bottom-six goon that will be lucky to get 5 - 10 goals per year in limited minutes. I'm beginning to wonder if Kassian has a bit of "Kyle Beach" in him; capable of so much, too stupid to realize it and in the penalty box way, way too much.

Let's not forget that Kassian was hand held by the Sedin's in the off-season to try and get his training habits in shape (not a good sign), and even went on to be a healthy scratch in 1 (or more, I'm not sure) game, also (clearly) not a good sign.

Who else is concerned?


Ya and you think Kadri is great lol bc he's a ppg in the AHL - you and Smashian

Anyone else want Kadri over Kassian? Laughable
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#35 Jägermeister

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 02:58 PM

Ya and you think Kadri is great lol bc he's a ppg in the AHL - you and Smashian

Anyone else want Kadri over Kassian? Laughable


Which is funny, because Kadri's P/G dropped in the NHL and the AHL last season, so by ES logic, that means he is getting worse.
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#36 King of the ES

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:00 PM

Thanks for affirming my belief that you haven't seen him play.
And no, the numbers don't mean anywhere near as much as you seem to think they do...

I scored 2 goals in my game the other week, one was an empty netter and the other was a snapshot from the point that bounced off my arm into the net. I was sat for almost an entire period at one point for making two terrible giveaways in our own zone, and I had also missed a wide open net earlier. You would look and say "wow he got 2 goals, he must have played great", but anyone who actually watched the game would realized that I hadn't.


I live in Chicago and have seen him play many times, both in Chicago and even in Peoria.
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#37 Max-a-Million

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:01 PM

I wonder, have you ever gotten over the Linden trade or the Bertuzzi trade? Like, Hodgson is gone - for good! Get over it. I've watched a couple of games that Kassian has played and he's going to be an all star, given the ice time and the opportunity. The AHL is not even a consideration to real games in the NHL. Perhaps your time would be better spent wondering what Mason Raymond has been doing to make sure he is a positive contributor once the NHL resumes instead of lammenting Hodgson, who will never amount to much in my opinion.
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#38 King of the ES

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:01 PM

You've made several statements in this thread that demonstrate trolling.

It needs to stop.


Pardon me? I'm speaking in real numbers and bringing up a valid concern.

What's the issue?
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#39 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:03 PM

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The issue would be that you are a troll.
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#40 King of the ES

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:05 PM

Ya and you think Kadri is great lol bc he's a ppg in the AHL - you and Smashian


You don't think he's any good because he's small. Classic size bias.

And for the record, let's not put words in other peoples' mouths. Never, ever have I said that Kadri is "great". What I've said is that he's probably roughly where he should be, as a 2009 high draft pick. Respectable NHL production through a limited opportunity, and very good minor league production.

Edited by King of the ES, 31 December 2012 - 03:05 PM.

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#41 ajhockey

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:05 PM

All I'm seeing is multiple warning signs of a troll.
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#42 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:07 PM

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Now that Kassian's essentially played the same amount of games in the AHL this season as he did last, I thought I'd have a look at the numbers to see how exactly he's "developing" (generous term).

WARNING: this ain't pretty

2011-12: 30 GP, 15 G, 26 P, +4, 94 SOG, 31 PIM

2012-13: 28 GP, 6 G, 18 P, -1, 72 SOG, 59 PIM

By my calculations, this amounts to the following data comparatives:

  • 60% year-over-year reduction in goals
  • 31% year-over-year reduction in points
  • 18% year-over-year reduction in SOG/game
  • 90% year-over-year increase in PIMs.
And, to be honest, the two things that are of the most concern to me are the decline in SOG and the increase in PIM. There's really no explanation for getting less SOG as a 22 year-old AHL sophomore than as a 21 year-old AHL rookie. And this SOG figure is even inflated, as Kass did have 7 SOG last game, bringing up his average significantly.

And while it's nice that he does seem willing to throw the body, at times, and drop the gloves, at times, I really hope that we didn't trade Cody Hodgson for a bottom-six goon that will be lucky to get 5 - 10 goals per year in limited minutes. I'm beginning to wonder if Kassian has a bit of "Kyle Beach" in him; capable of so much, too stupid to realize it and in the penalty box way, way too much.

Let's not forget that Kassian was hand held by the Sedin's in the off-season to try and get his training habits in shape (not a good sign), and even went on to be a healthy scratch in 1 (or more, I'm not sure) game, also (clearly) not a good sign.

Who else is concerned?


Your points do deserve a response.

Clearly stats matter and a couple of things to note/think about.

1. None of us know what he has been told to focus on by the coaching staff of the nucks and chi other than fitness which he has addressed = positive, not sure how the two best players on the team taking him under their wing is a negative but you have spun it as such - to me its a sign of leadership and how highly this kid is thought of by those leaders and the Canucks.

2. Points are down yes, but as a poster pointed out he is tied for the team lead. The team is not scoring and that afffects everyone, doesn't matter who you are unless your last name is Bure, Gretkzy, Lemiuex etc. He plays a team game and will score not on his own but be part of a group contribution, but hey should he be on a ppg pace, we would all like it, end of the world given team scoring ..no.

3. Perhaps he has been told to focus on his defensive positioning, puck protection, board battles etc. If so often young players have so much going through their heads in a game, they can't play 'their game'. This is part of development. Purge the bad habits, create new good ones, so when he makes the jump the issues AV would have with him are gone and then his offensive side will come. This is clearly how the canucks develop players and very important given how AV awards ice and plays younger guys. If he hasn't developed this then he will get crushed by AV. and then bust.

4. PIMS - means he's getting involved. I like that, that's his role on the nucks when he comes up, and pitch in the odd goal and assist. If he can play 45 games (shortened season) and pitch in 8-10 goals, with 10 or so assists and bring a physical presense, and be defensively responsible, I think he'll be on the right track.

Think a bit deeper kid, not always about goals and assists, usually a method to coaching and the Nucks are developing him in a certain way....he's going to be a terrific NHL'er in about 4-5 years, someone teams hate to play against.
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#43 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:08 PM

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I live in Chicago and have seen him play many times, both in Chicago and even in Peoria.


Oh you;re a hawks fan...makes sense now
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#44 Jägermeister

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:09 PM

I live in Chicago and have seen him play many times, both in Chicago and even in Peoria.


Maybe you should have said that before, instead of this:

"Watch him play" - fine, but the numbers don't lie.

Just to clear up any confusion.

Basing your arguments off of stats is a trademark of somebody who doesn't actually watch the games.
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#45 King of the ES

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:10 PM

The AHL is not even a consideration to real games in the NHL.


Total BS.

If, instead, Kassian was putting up numbers like Justin Schultz is, this site would be in a perennial frenzy, and we all know it.
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#46 SamJamIam

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:15 PM

King of the BS strikes again. Please don't feed the trolls. This kid has made 3 of these threads in the course of a few weeks. This junk needs to get locked.
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#47 Cromeslab

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:18 PM

A little concern,maybe......"multiple warning signs"?cmon stop your nonsense
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#48 King of the ES

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:18 PM

King of the BS strikes again. Please don't feed the trolls. This kid has made 3 of these threads in the course of a few weeks. This junk needs to get locked.


Just like when you said that the Rangers acquired Rick Nash via free agency, this is simply and plainly false.

I've made 5 threads since joining this forum, and this is only the 2nd one that deals specifically with the Canucks.

Sounds like with all of your repeated lies and false statements - unlike what I've shared in this thread (statistics) - you're a far higher-ranking "troll" than I am.
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#49 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:23 PM

Outside of the semantics here, his point is fair to argue,

You don't think he's any good because he's small. Classic size bias.

And for the record, let's not put words in other peoples' mouths. Never, ever have I said that Kadri is "great". What I've said is that he's probably roughly where he should be, as a 2009 high draft pick. Respectable NHL production through a limited opportunity, and very good minor league production.


Actually NO!!!

If you go read my posts about him, I have watched Kadri play alot. Its not about size, in fact I've mentioned alot of players his size or smaller that have done extremely well in the NHL.

SO.

1. Don't put words in my mouth
2. Don't make assumptions about my points without reading them
3. The point of Kadri is a) he's a 'tweener' and will be great in the AHL b. he doesn't excel at any one thing that will allow him to make the jump successfully as other smaller players have (skating, speed, strength, ability to avoid hits in the tough areas, etc)

Thanks for coming out Chicago Troll

Edited by BuretoMogilny, 31 December 2012 - 03:24 PM.

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#50 Gollumpus

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:23 PM

I'm just upset that he doesn't seem to be getting better. Stats matter.


Hasn't Kassian been asked to work more on his defensive game, and as a result his offensive numbers have suffered? At least that's what all the folks who are Grabner fans kept saying whenever there was a drop off in his offensive numbers.

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#51 70seven

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:24 PM

I guess being concerned would depend on your expectations for Kassian.

I dont have any real expectations because the kid is still figuring out what role he will fill. From the games Ive seen he has some above average playmaking ability, and some interesting creativity off of the rush. Whether this will translate well to the NHL game remains to be seen.

I am sure that hell be a full time NHLer... But will he be closer to a Todd Bertuzzi or a Chris Neil? No one knows, not even Zack himself. People should stop worrying and just let the story unfold.
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#52 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:25 PM

This is what I'm seeing in this thread:

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#53 Ghewlash

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:29 PM

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Having watched most of Kassian's games this year, I for one am super excited to see him on the Canucks. Yeah he's not putting up huge points, but the guy gets loads of chances every game. The guy is a scoring chance machine; he's just not burying them. Kassian is such an awesome player and makes so many great down low plays and is always noticeable on the ice. If you watched him play, how can you not be crazy-optimistic about him??
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#54 Primal Optimist

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:31 PM

If he is tied for top scoring on the team, even if it is a reduction on last years stats, I am okay with that..you can't do better than 'best on the team'. There is no better than the best. Hockey is not like golf...your not out to improve your handicap year over year..simply because hockey is dynamic where golf is static...but if you want to know more about golf, talk to the leafs.

I think kassian is working on his inner fortitude..someone pulled him aside and said hey kid, you wanna be the next big power forward? you gotta work on your mean, not your shooting.
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#55 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:37 PM

Now that Kassian's essentially played the same amount of games in the AHL this season as he did last, I thought I'd have a look at the numbers to see how exactly he's "developing" (generous term).

WARNING: this ain't pretty

2011-12: 30 GP, 15 G, 26 P, +4, 94 SOG, 31 PIM

2012-13: 28 GP, 6 G, 18 P, -1, 72 SOG, 59 PIM

By my calculations, this amounts to the following data comparatives:

  • 60% year-over-year reduction in goals
  • 31% year-over-year reduction in points
  • 18% year-over-year reduction in SOG/game
  • 90% year-over-year increase in PIMs.
And, to be honest, the two things that are of the most concern to me are the decline in SOG and the increase in PIM. There's really no explanation for getting less SOG as a 22 year-old AHL sophomore than as a 21 year-old AHL rookie. And this SOG figure is even inflated, as Kass did have 7 SOG last game, bringing up his average significantly.

And while it's nice that he does seem willing to throw the body, at times, and drop the gloves, at times, I really hope that we didn't trade Cody Hodgson for a bottom-six goon that will be lucky to get 5 - 10 goals per year in limited minutes. I'm beginning to wonder if Kassian has a bit of "Kyle Beach" in him; capable of so much, too stupid to realize it and in the penalty box way, way too much.

Let's not forget that Kassian was hand held by the Sedin's in the off-season to try and get his training habits in shape (not a good sign), and even went on to be a healthy scratch in 1 (or more, I'm not sure) game, also (clearly) not a good sign.

Who else is concerned?



Okay King what are you so concerned about?

What in his game is lacking since I assume you have watched all the games and can identify the weak point in it.

So enlighten us, breakdown Kassians game for us.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 31 December 2012 - 03:37 PM.

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#56 DeNiro

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:52 PM

Title should have been:

Kassian, do we really want him?
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#57 Kassian's Tooth

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:52 PM

I've watched about 10 to 12 wolves games this year and he's fine. He has the most assists and tied for most points on a terrible team offence wise. If Zach leads any team in points in any league you know that team has a problem, that's not his forte. When he was in the AHL last time he was on a high powered offensive team and that's the difference!! He skates very well, lays down great passes and he's improving. My only criticism is that I thought he would be more aggressive and belligerent fighting wise and he's not really a policeman type or a sh*t disturber. He doesn't back down from it but he doesn't look for it either, unlike Lucic who he gets compared to he's more passive (so far anyway).

Good hands, good skating, good size just needs a little time, he'll be fine.
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#58 70seven

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:54 PM

Also to reflect.... While playing in Rochester, Kassian did have 26 points in 30 games. However in those 30 games, he only had 31 PIM.

He's seemed to take a bigger role as an enforcer with Chicago, now having 59 PIM in in just 27 games.

Isnt that whats been lacking on the Canucks?? Someone who can intimidate, and stand up for his teammates, while actually being able to produce? He doesnt need to put up primary numbers to be effective. And if his creative playmaking can translate to the NHL, it's quite possible he could fit very nicley beside a healthy Ryan Kesler.

If he can put up 40 points, kick the cr@p out of little dirt bags like Marchand, and wear down defenders with an aggressive forecheck, I'll be just fine with that, thatnkyou very much.


Now Jensen on the other hand.... Thats where Ill care more for the numbers. (12 goals in 32 games playing as a rookie pro on a dud offensive club) Playing with the Sedins... this kid could hit 40.

Edited by 70seven, 31 December 2012 - 03:55 PM.

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#59 n00bxQb

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 04:28 PM

I've watched about 10 to 12 wolves games this year and he's fine. He has the most assists and tied for most points on a terrible team offence wise. If Zach leads any team in points in any league you know that team has a problem, that's not his forte. When he was in the AHL last time he was on a high powered offensive team and that's the difference!! He skates very well, lays down great passes and he's improving. My only criticism is that I thought he would be more aggressive and belligerent fighting wise and he's not really a policeman type or a sh*t disturber. He doesn't back down from it but he doesn't look for it either, unlike Lucic who he gets compared to he's more passive (so far anyway).

Good hands, good skating, good size just needs a little time, he'll be fine.

He shouldn't go looking for fights, if that's what you're suggesting. The last thing we need is a prospect with concussion issues and mangled hands.
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#60 SamJamIam

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 04:39 PM

Can I just say how happy I am to see a mod call KotBS a troll? This made my day.
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