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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 4.0


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#451 playboi19

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 02:40 AM

Crazy hypothetical question: If Van trades Luongo with say Ballard & another contract(Booth?), how much talent could they DEMAND from Philly if they took the headcase, Bryzgalov??? Then buy him out after the season.

Maybe Coutourier, Simmonds, Coburn & a 1st rounder(or 2?)?

The Aqualini's and Gillis arent stupid, I'll leave it at that.
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#452 Noheart

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 02:55 AM

Crazy hypothetical question: If Van trades Luongo with say Ballard & another contract(Booth?), how much talent could they DEMAND from Philly if they took the headcase, Bryzgalov??? Then buy him out after the season.

Maybe Coutourier, Simmonds, Coburn & a 1st rounder(or 2?)?


I have been thinking about this too. It would probably be easier for the flyers to just buy him out themselves. But a cash strapped team like NYI or CLB would posibly give up some picks and prospects to unload toxic contracts with or without Luongo.

To van
DePetro
Nino Niederreiter
1st

To NYI
Sauve
Lack

Never going to happen but you get the point. horrible contract relief
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BEASTLY!!!

#453 The Bookie

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 03:03 AM

Do y'all mind if I inject a bit of reality into this thread, and point out that the owners just imposed a four month lockout costing themselves hundreds of millions of dollars to scrape away small percentages of the players earning potential?

They're not going to be tripping over each other to buy out the most overpaid players in the league.
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#454 Nuxfanabroad

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 03:04 AM

Yeah, we were discussing this in proposals(cap circumvention thread), on using a buyout with Lecavalier to obtain more from TBay.

It's an interesting notion with Dipietro. Prob some team will use their alloted buyouts to also acquire a young prospect, or high pick.
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#455 Nuxfanabroad

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 03:11 AM

@ Bookie: But it could be a way for a flush team (like Toronto) to expedite a rebuild. If you pick up 2 premier prospects(imagine 1 of them turns into an Yzerman or Bourque!)...It would become a 20, or 25 mill investment that pays off in spades.
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#456 King of the ES

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:33 AM

Tebow in no #1 QB in the NFL. Tebow in more of a running back than QB.

The problem with the Jets was they did not have even one #1, not that they had two.


Tebow led a losing football team, who's hopes were all but lost, into the playoffs last year and even won a road game while captivating the entire world. Sanchez had also led the Jets to multiple playoff appearances, winning multiple road playoff games.

Sanchez had the worst year of his career, Tebow didn't even play and somehow ended up looking like a bad teammate near the end of the season. That's what happens when you have a circus. Things just keep going wrong.
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#457 King of the ES

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:35 AM

The sense he is making relates to winning, not trade value King. The idea he is clearly endorsing is to keep a tandem in a short season - two goaltenders gives you a better chance of having a hot one - advantage Vancouver. Is that really so difficult to comprehend? We understand your point. It's just that not everyone agrees with you.


So you're saying that having a backup goaltender is more important than having a center like Tyler Bozak?

As it stands now, our 2nd line C is Max Lapierre. Promising?
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#458 King of the ES

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:37 AM

What I wouldn't listen to is the proposal you finally came up with.

Michael Frolik and Nick Leddy.
:lol:
Gawd awful King. Michael Frolik - the Canucks answer for the top 6! :bigblush:
Clearly you're not a homer either.


You forgot Kyle Beach also coming our way, as well as getting rid of Keith Ballard.
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#459 King of the ES

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:43 AM

Anyway, part of me is simply baiting King :shock: , waiting for the "ARE YOU KIDDING ME? LUONGO for Couturier and more? You're nuts!!!"


I initially was going to reply, decided not to. The above quote captured my emotion accurately when reading your initial proposal.

Couturier is going nowhere.
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#460 King of the ES

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:48 AM

And Toronto is showing their cards.... haven't heard the Komisarek cap dump crap for a while now... they're losing their poker faces and wanting this done fast. I think Gillis should weigh his options haha.


How are they showing their cards?

I recall you repeatedly bashing the Vancouver media, calling them "not credible", etc. Toronto media is somehow of such greater quality?
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#461 King of the ES

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:51 AM

I hate Luongo more than anyone, I have said since Luongo v1.0 that his value is worthless.
The more I am reading into this the more I am starting to change my mind.
Even a cocky bastard like myself can admit when im wrong.
I think because of the short season
The urgency to win becomes greater for TO.
The urgency to generate ticket sales from lost rev becomes greater for FLA.TB,NYI
The rookie hangover in WASH is long gone.
SJ has an aging core that couldn’t get the job done 5 years younger.
CHI and PHI are a goaltender away from a Stanley cup.
Every point is critical and I don’t think these teams can afford to wait till the summer or the trade deadline.
Advantage Gillis.


People aren't going to get "urgent" when it comes to taking on a 9-year commitment like Luongo.

A rash, emotional decision will not be made by the acquirer.
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#462 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 07:11 AM

Eklund says Boston has mild interest? What? Why?

Seguin for luongo and a pick


If they do have interest...

BOS
Edler
Schneider

VAN
Lucic
Seguin

Edited by Canucks_Hockey_101, 08 January 2013 - 07:13 AM.

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#463 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 07:26 AM

So you're saying that having a backup goaltender is more important than having a center like Tyler Bozak?

As it stands now, our 2nd line C is Max Lapierre. Promising?


Again. Luongo is NOT. a backup. Stop.
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#464 Fozzy

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:07 AM

I cannot believe some people on here are suggesting Luongo gets bought out or if that doesn't happen he will get waived. That is just laughable.
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#465 TmanVan

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:51 AM

If they do have interest...

BOS
Edler
Schneider

VAN
Lucic
Seguin


It would suck to lose Schneider as our immediate drafting future would again have to focus on goaltending, but Seguin and Lucic ? In a heart beat....

Too bad it would never happen. Boston would probably offer Krejci, m. Subban, and a 1st.
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#466 Mr. White

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:56 AM

I hate Lucic but him with the Sedins would be absolutely deadly
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#467 smurf47

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 10:24 AM

Again. Luongo is NOT. a backup. Stop.

Your right. hes not a backup, but won't be a Canuck either !
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#468 elvis15

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 10:27 AM

It's cup or bust this year. If we win the cup, will anyone really care if we let Weiss walk? I mean if he's the missing top-6 forward we need, why not go for it.

That's like saying would anyone have cared if we'd offered Columbus all our best prospects (Gaunce, Jensen, Lack and Connauton, then throw in our 1st!) for Rick Nash. We wouldn't need any of them for a cup run this year so why would it matter? Rick Nash is awesome? Who cares if we have to buy him out because of his cap hit in the summer if we win a cup?

There's no guarantee in anything that acquiring a certain player will win us the cup. You can't go all in on a player that you think will really help, or else you end up in a situation like Brian Burke is now, selling his future to get Kessel. That didn't get him into the playoffs (the Leafs goal at the time) so what do you do if Weiss doesn't help win us the cup?
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#469 smurf47

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 10:40 AM

I just read that Lou is again working with Francois Allaire, his old goalie coach. That in itself says something about his tenure with the Canucks. Melanson is the Canuck Goaltender coach, the same coach that helped get LOu's GAA down to a great 2.11 in 2010-11. Last season, Lou reverted back, for the most part, to the Allaire method and saw his average climb almost 1/3 goal per game to 2.41. Lou is obviously more comfortable with that style but, its less effective for him. I think theres a sign here , that he will not be a Canuck, or he would be , should be, working with Melanson. Unless Allaire has some new tricks for Lou, I certainly don;t see him improving over last season. The hybid system works better, is less predictable and proven more effective for him. Why would he not continue to use it? Very strange, unfanthomable actually and defies logic.
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#470 King of the ES

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 10:40 AM

Again. Luongo is NOT. a backup. Stop.


On this team, by definition, he is.

And if you think that guys like Burke & Tallon won't use that reality against Vancouver in negotiations, you are mistaken.
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#471 smurf47

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 10:46 AM

On this team, by definition, he is.

And if you think that guys like Burke & Tallon won't use that reality against Vancouver in negotiations, you are mistaken.

101 is a HUGE Luongo fan, wants Schneider gone because he is such a threat to his hero. There is little logic, but tons of emotion in his position. It makes him feel better to keep offering up Schneider as trade bait, when, all things point to Lou as the one being traded. You can lead a horse to water, but ya can;t make him drink ES. No one will/can change his mind, although I believe he knows whats going to happen, that Lou will be traded.
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#472 elvis15

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:04 AM

101 is a HUGE Luongo fan, wants Schneider gone because he is such a threat to his hero. There is little logic, but tons of emotion in his position. It makes him feel better to keep offering up Schneider as trade bait, when, all things point to Lou as the one being traded. You can lead a horse to water, but ya can;t make him drink ES. No one will/can change his mind, although I believe he knows whats going to happen, that Lou will be traded.

The same thing goes for ES. Consider what he's stating, that by definition, Luongo is the backup (nothing specific to trades in his last post or CH101's).

- Is this because Schneider played the last few playoff games? We know the situation in Boston where Thomas was ousted by Rask only to be the starter again the following year.
- Is this because the team has said Schneider is the starter? I haven't seen any quotes stating that, only that they're prepared to go with both goalies if need be.
- Is there some other proof he has that Luongo will be the backup if he plays here for at least part of the year instead of a tandem system?

Cory having signed a new contract, their stats from last year, and Luongo saying he'd accept a move (making him the most likely to be traded) doesn't equal Luongo automatically being the backup. People stating with 100% certainty that he will be the backup is as wrong as people saying Luongo won't be. The same goes for stating with 100% certainty that one or the other will be traded.

If both sides could just get past that and realize there are any number of possibilities (even if some are more likely than others) then the discussion around possible Luongo trades becomes a lot more pleasant.
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#473 thad

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:15 AM

I just read that Lou is again working with Francois Allaire, his old goalie coach. That in itself says something about his tenure with the Canucks. Melanson is the Canuck Goaltender coach, the same coach that helped get LOu's GAA down to a great 2.11 in 2010-11. Last season, Lou reverted back, for the most part, to the Allaire method and saw his average climb almost 1/3 goal per game to 2.41. Lou is obviously more comfortable with that style but, its less effective for him. I think theres a sign here , that he will not be a Canuck, or he would be , should be, working with Melanson. Unless Allaire has some new tricks for Lou, I certainly don;t see him improving over last season. The hybid system works better, is less predictable and proven more effective for him. Why would he not continue to use it? Very strange, unfanthomable actually and defies logic.


He's been working out with allaire for weeks now. I believe he's not allowed to work with Canuck staff during the lockout
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#474 thad

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:21 AM

On this team, by definition, he is.

And if you think that guys like Burke & Tallon won't use that reality against Vancouver in negotiations, you are mistaken.


And gillis goes "awe you guys caught me!! I can't trick you Burke, you caught on to me trying to pawn this back up off as a perennial vezina contender, well respected all star with a gold medal around his neck.. I didn't think you saw the last TWO games where Schnieder took over and forever relegated luongo to back up for the rest of his career.. Ok the jig is up, gimme komiserek and Lombardi and here's your goalie"
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#475 elvis15

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:23 AM

He's been working out with allaire for weeks now. I believe he's not allowed to work with Canuck staff during the lockout

Then there's common sense coming to the discussion.

And gillis goes "awe you guys caught me!! I can't trick you Burke, you caught on to me trying to pawn this back up off as a perennial vezina contender, well respected all star with a gold medal around his neck.. I didn't think you saw the last TWO games where Schnieder took over and forever relegated luongo to back up for the rest of his career.. Ok the jig is up, gimme komiserek and Lombardi and here's your goalie"

Much funnier than my post! I laughed and laughed...

Edited by elvis15, 08 January 2013 - 11:24 AM.

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#476 thad

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:49 AM

Much funnier than my post! I laughed and laughed...


lol glad i could entertain. His logic is just baffling to me. Like how immature and stupid would it be for Burke and Tallon to say he's a backup. He acts like these teams dont really want luongo because he's now a "back up goalie" but they might be willing to give him a try for penuts. You cant even consider that posturing to get a better deal because its ludacris and would never get a deal moving along. Burke isnt stupid, he knows luongo wants to go to florida and he knows gillis would prefer to respectfully send him there if the deal is right. He also knows florida has way better young assets that he does. This is why i think you might see kadri in the deal. He's heard Tallon say our big 3 blue chippers arent going anywhere, so he says "look your not getting Bjugstad from tallon but i"ll put one of mine in the deal in kadri.

I think Burke knows he cant sit on this too long because if theres 2 mediocre deals on the table, Gillis will send Luongo home where he wants to be. His deal has to be good enough that Gillis says "sorry Bobby but Fla is trying to fleece us and burke has the only real offer on the table".
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#477 sting

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:57 AM

Me thinks Toronto wants Luongo bad. Arguably need him.
Florida on the other hand would like to have Lou. Nice nostalgic storyline. He wants to go there.
All other teams are pretenders IMO. Whether due to conference rival, cap resources, or no interest.

Without a doubt the best case scenario for said player and team (VCR) is to move ASAP. The Canucks have a huge hole to fill at center. No Kesler and Pahlsson will put huge strain on the ability to match up well against any top tier teams. (especially in a 48 game season)
Malhotra ,Lapierre and Schroeder(rookie) absolutely will not give AV and Gillis confidence to contend. If they did they would have never acquired Pahlsson last season.

The starting point for either deal has to be Weiss and Bozak. The remainder will likely be a depth player (most likely defense) and a decent prospect or draft pick.

So who would you prefer? Bozak is 26 6'1 195lbs makes 1.5m is UFA at seasons end. Weiss is 29 5'11 190lbs makes 3.1m and is also UFA.


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#478 Strawberries

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:27 PM

Weiss over Bozak any day, not even close
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#479 TmanVan

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:34 PM

Me thinks Toronto wants Luongo bad. Arguably need him.
Florida on the other hand would like to have Lou. Nice nostalgic storyline. He wants to go there.
All other teams are pretenders IMO. Whether due to conference rival, cap resources, or no interest.

Without a doubt the best case scenario for said player and team (VCR) is to move ASAP. The Canucks have a huge hole to fill at center. No Kesler and Pahlsson will put huge strain on the ability to match up well against any top tier teams. (especially in a 48 game season)
Malhotra ,Lapierre and Schroeder(rookie) absolutely will not give AV and Gillis confidence to contend. If they did they would have never acquired Pahlsson last season.

The starting point for either deal has to be Weiss and Bozak. The remainder will likely be a depth player (most likely defense) and a decent prospect or draft pick.

So who would you prefer? Bozak is 26 6'1 195lbs makes 1.5m is UFA at seasons end. Weiss is 29 5'11 190lbs makes 3.1m and is also UFA.


Weiss no contest.

Stephen Weiss, Drew Shore and a conditional 2nd ( Van gets second if Weiss walks at en of season)

Add a mid round pick or lower end prospect ( Sauve, Rodin,) if that's what it takes to get the deal done.

Or..... Since Weiss will have to be replaced, send them Raymond instead haha.

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#480 Lockhart

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:46 PM

Bozak sucks, I'd be pissed if he was the main part of the deal.
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