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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 4.0


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#571 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 07:59 PM

I really like Matt Frattin. Hes got real good wheels, a good shot, and had 81 hits in 56 games with the buds last year. Hes like Raymond with b@lls and a nose for the net. Just cause hes 25 doesnt mean hes washed up... He didnt break out untill his 4th year of colledge with 36 goals, 60 points in only 44 games, and last season was his very 1st pro season, in which he had 14 goals in 23 games with the Marlies before getting called up to the big league. The majority of players dont have good numbers in their first taste of the NHL... THeres a learning curve, and it can take time for alot of players to adapt, just like the majority of our core.... How old was Burrows before cracking the Nux lineup??


Leafs fans are not happy with this rumor.


I'm not so worried about age, more about value coming back. We're taking a 4th round pick from 07', a free agent signing and soon to be UFA in Bozak, as well as a throw in 2nd round pick. These scraps combined do not equal Luongo.

Most people on here we struggling with the idea of Bozak, Kadri, and a 2nd, when that return is clearly superior to this new rumour. At least in this deal we get a top prospect.
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#572 70seven

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:02 PM

I dont like that deal because theres no center piece to it. If the 2nd is turned into 1st, It would be a good deal.

Frattin reminds me of Hansen, a very hard worker, fast and doest take a shift off. He is instantly a lock on the 4th line if we get him.

Bozak eliminates Malhotra from our lineup.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Raymond - Kesler - Booth
Higgins - Bozak - Hansen
Frattin - Lappiere - Kassian



Hansen is actually a good comparison, but Frattin has more offensive upside...
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#573 oldnews

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:05 PM

I really like Matt Frattin. Hes got real good wheels, a good shot, and had 81 hits in 56 games with the buds last year. Hes like Raymond with b@lls and a nose for the net. Just cause hes 25 doesnt mean hes washed up... He didnt break out untill his 4th year of colledge with 36 goals, 60 points in only 44 games, and last season was his very 1st pro season, in which he had 14 goals in 23 games with the Marlies before getting called up to the big league. The majority of players dont have good numbers in their first taste of the NHL... THeres a learning curve, and it can take time for alot of players to adapt, just like the majority of our core.... How old was Burrows before cracking the Nux lineup??


Leafs fans are not happy with this rumor.


I like Frattin as well, certainly not as a centerpiece, but one of the pieces. Would rather pick him up than the vast majority of Leafs roster players.
Frattin is a speedy, gritty RW who can put the puck in the net - I think he would be a good player to compete with Kassian for 2nd line minutes - he is less than a million cap hit for this year and next, still on his ELC.
I think he is one of the Leafs that makes the most sense as part of a deal.
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#574 oldnews

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:09 PM

I'm not so worried about age, more about value coming back. We're taking a 4th round pick from 07', a free agent signing and soon to be UFA in Bozak, as well as a throw in 2nd round pick. These scraps combined do not equal Luongo.

Most people on here we struggling with the idea of Bozak, Kadri, and a 2nd, when that return is clearly superior to this new rumour. At least in this deal we get a top prospect.


Where he was drafted is entirely irrelevant - as is the fact Bozak was undrafted. The Canucks have a few undrafted and low round picks on the roster, and they certainly aren't filler.
In the case of Bozak, it is possible to negotiate terms with a player as part of the process of a deal - and would rather take him than Kadri, who imo is a poor fit - not a very good option for the third line, and certainly not the kind of 2nd line RW I have in mind.
To me, that would be an opening type offer from Toronto.
My response would be make it a 1st, add Franson's rights, don't bother countering, and I'll get back to you after I've surveyed the competing bids. Alternatively substitute Biggs for the pick.
Another aspect of that deal that I like is the cap hit. It gives the Canucks nearly another 3 million to work with - and if Bozak agrees to reasonable terms, I wouldn't complain about this deal. Aside from those two, the only other option I like up front is Grabovski, and I don't think the value for cap hit isn't comparable - I'd rather have the pair.

Edited by oldnews, 08 January 2013 - 08:26 PM.

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#575 70seven

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:11 PM

I'm not so worried about age, more about value coming back. We're taking a 4th round pick from 07', a free agent signing and soon to be UFA in Bozak, as well as a throw in 2nd round pick. These scraps combined do not equal Luongo.

Most people on here we struggling with the idea of Bozak, Kadri, and a 2nd, when that return is clearly superior to this new rumour. At least in this deal we get a top prospect.


Well of course people here dont like it... They dont like anything unless its highway robbery...

Considering the liklihood of having few options, I think these additions give this team some very solid depth, especially when Kesler becomes healthy. I also think Bozak is underrated. He reminds me of Chris Higgins, and is very good on faceoffs.

a possible 3rd line of Higgins/Raymond - Bozak - Hansen is solid imo. All these players are capable of 40+ points and playing hard working and defensivley responsable shifts. When the cap crunch comes in next year, Frattin would be a nice peice at a 925,000 cap hit, who IMO has top 6 potential.
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#576 elvis15

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:13 PM

Or, All Star for All Star for All Star


http://hfboards.hock...d.php?t=1108441

I think we're agreeing versus disagreeing. I'm just saying three way deals aren't going to be these 4 guys for these 2 plus a 1st, then swapped with these 3 and a 2nd over here. They won't be like that in a lower end deal and they won't be like that in a higher end deal, like an all star, for an all star for an all star. Perhaps teams manage an extra prospect or pick in there, but it's not going to be a whole bunch of top players/top prospects/top picks.
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#577 Gollumpus

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:17 PM

Frattin, Bozak and a 2nd, hey? Close .... change the pick to a 1st and I'd be satisfied.


Change the pick to a 1st, and Frattin to Kadri, and I would be happy.


Agree with the first, although Burke might balk at giving up his 2013 pick. It might be a 2014 1st.

I'd be okay with Kadri and somewhat less so with Frattin (although I think he's going to be a pretty good player). I'd really want Biggs as the prospect part of Gillis' wish list.

If Bozak is in the deal, I'd want a conditional 2014 pick if he doesn't sign here (maybe as high as a 3rd, or even a 2nd if Gillis could swing it).

regards,
G.
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#578 oldnews

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:19 PM

Well of course people here dont like it... They dont like anything unless its highway robbery...

Considering the liklihood of having few options, I think these additions give this team some very solid depth, especially when Kesler becomes healthy. I also think Bozak is underrated. He reminds me of Chris Higgins, and is very good on faceoffs.

a possible 3rd line of Higgins/Raymond - Bozak - Hansen is solid imo. All these players are capable of 40+ points and playing hard working and defensivley responsable shifts. When the cap crunch comes in next year, Frattin would be a nice peice at a 925,000 cap hit, who IMO has top 6 potential.


A pair of players at the right positions, who could both step into the top 9, for less than a 2.5 million cap hit, could potentially put up 20 goals each, have their share of grit.... I could care less if they are 'only' 200lbs - the Canucks could do worse, and that 1st will be a top 5 pick hahaha.
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#579 Armada

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:22 PM

Luongo for Phaneuf

Or no deal

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#580 DeNiro

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:23 PM

I dont like that deal because theres no center piece to it. If the 2nd is turned into 1st, It would be a good deal.

Frattin reminds me of Hansen, a very hard worker, fast and doest take a shift off. He is instantly a lock on the 4th line if we get him.

Bozak eliminates Malhotra from our lineup.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Raymond - Kesler - Booth
Higgins - Bozak - Hansen
Frattin - Lappiere - Kassian


That makes us better this season, but beyond that it does little to help us.

If there was a 1st round pick involved it's a good deal. But when the so called "centerpiece" of the trade is a UFA after this season, it adds little value.
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#581 Gollumpus

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:23 PM

Where he was drafted is entirely irrelevant.
In the case of Bozak, it is possible to negotiate terms with a player as part of the process of a deal - and would rather take him than Kadri, who imo is a poor fit - not a very good option for the third line, and certainly not the kind of 2nd line RW I have in mind.
To me, that would be an opening type offer from Toronto.
My response would be make it a 1st, add Franson's rights, don't bother countering, and I'll get back to you after I've surveyed the competing bids.
Another aspect of that deal that I like is the cap hit. It gives the Canucks nearly another 3 million to work with - and if Bozak agrees to reasonable terms (a very moderate increase in his salary), I wouldn't complain.


Just curious: What would be your fall back asset if Bozak did something crazy like say he didn't want to play here? Maybe Colborne might serve I suppose, although there are some weaknesses in his game.


regards,
G.
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#582 Canucks fan in chicago

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:34 PM

Luongo has never been a team player anyway. He's always put his needs before his team. The Canucks need more 'Heart and Soul' guys on this team. I hate how Luongo feels he's automatically deserved a number one spot in Vancouver.....NO, you've gotta earn your spot Lu, instead of complaining and asking to be traded PROVE that you deserve the spot over Schneider. I'll be GLAD when Luongo is gone, that self centered...
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#583 DeNiro

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:40 PM

Just curious: What would be your fall back asset if Bozak did something crazy like say he didn't want to play here? Maybe Colborne might serve I suppose, although there are some weaknesses in his game.


regards,
G.


Exactly my concern.

After this season, Bozak decides to go for a big raise that we can't afford. Frattin is a decent NHLer but has a ceiling of a third or fourth liner. And the 2nd round pick ends up being an average prospect like Sauve or Rodin.

Then what would we have to show for trading Luongo? A third liner? All while the Leafs have a number 1 goalie for the next 5 years, and make the playoffs every year.

Oh, and we get stuck with part of Luongo's cap hit when he retires...Yea, great deal for us.
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#584 theminister

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:48 PM

Exactly my concern.

After this season, Bozak decides to go for a big raise that we can't afford. Frattin is a decent NHLer but has a ceiling of a third or fourth liner. And the 2nd round pick ends up being an average prospect like Sauve or Rodin.

Then what would we have to show for trading Luongo? A third liner? All while the Leafs have a number 1 goalie for the next 5 years, and make the playoffs every year.

Oh, and we get stuck with part of Luongo's cap hit when he retires...Yea, great deal for us.


OTOH, Boston got better after trading Thornton for players that were hardly impact for them.

So it is all within a framework of whether it would only be a short or long term problem.

Lou could retire today, if there was no cap penalty for it, and the Canucks franchise would be worse of but not imploding.

Just sayin'. More is better, obviously.
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#585 Tangelos

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:48 PM

Exactly my concern.

After this season, Bozak decides to go for a big raise that we can't afford. Frattin is a decent NHLer but has a ceiling of a third or fourth liner. And the 2nd round pick ends up being an average prospect like Sauve or Rodin.

Then what would we have to show for trading Luongo? A third liner? All while the Leafs have a number 1 goalie for the next 5 years, and make the playoffs every year.

Oh, and we get stuck with part of Luongo's cap hit when he retires...Yea, great deal for us.


If Bozak helps us get a cup then Who cares if he walks
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#586 Pears

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:53 PM

Luongo has never been a team player anyway. He's always put his needs before his team. The Canucks need more 'Heart and Soul' guys on this team. I hate how Luongo feels he's automatically deserved a number one spot in Vancouver.....NO, you've gotta earn your spot Lu, instead of complaining and asking to be traded PROVE that you deserve the spot over Schneider. I'll be GLAD when Luongo is gone, that self centered...

What are you talking about?? If you don't think Luongo is a proven elite goalie you have some serious problems. Also how is Lu not a team player when he has said he would be willing to waive his no-trade and gave Gillis the green light to do whats right for the team.
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#587 pigs_eye10

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:02 PM

there is a 32.333 all across percentage chance that luongo will get traded to the leafs
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#588 Canucks fan in chicago

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:10 PM

What are you talking about?? If you don't think Luongo is a proven elite goalie you have some serious problems. Also how is Lu not a team player when he has said he would be willing to waive his no-trade and gave Gillis the green light to do whats right for the team.


The only reason Luongo wants a trade is because he's finally had competition for the starting job. What I'm saying is, a player who is a team player won't care where they play, they just want the team to win. Luongo is showing no loyalty to the Canucks especially after signing the long term contract extension, he figured he would retire as a Canuck. But as soon as Schneider developed and replaced Luongo, he immediately wanted out. Which means one of 2 things- He's only interested in money or he's only interested in playing on a team where he's not contested for the starting job, which is never a good thing and shows that Luongo thinks he's better than Schneider when last season proved that was not the case and proves my point that Luongo is not a team player.
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#589 oldnews

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:17 PM

Just curious: What would be your fall back asset if Bozak did something crazy like say he didn't want to play here? Maybe Colborne might serve I suppose, although there are some weaknesses in his game.


regards,
G.


I touched on this in previous posts.
I don't cut that deal unless as part of it, MG gets to negotiate with Bozak before the terms are set. It may not be the norm, but it does happen.
Otherwise I look at Bozak as, say, one fourth of the value in a deal - a reasonable rental, but I want another (4th) piece included (ie Franson's rights) - the pick has to be a 1st regardless. Or alternatively, I consider adding a lesser asset and insist upon adding a prospect like Biggs to the deal. Burke shutters. I keep his Luongo clause in mind.

I hear what DeNiro is saying and agree to a large extent - an absolutely unacceptable result is giving Luongo to the Leafs for less than value. Virtually any other result is preferable. If the Canucks are going to concede value - send him to Florida - part class act, and part of it payback for the gift named Higgins.

ps. I also don't see Frattin as a third / fourth tweener at best. I like his game and think he has more potential than that.

Edited by oldnews, 08 January 2013 - 09:21 PM.

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#590 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:32 PM

So you're saying that having a backup goaltender is more important than having a center like Tyler Bozak?

As it stands now, our 2nd line C is Max Lapierre. Promising?


Ya I would say having 2 star goalies is much better than having Bozak.

And Schroeder (Or Higgins) is likely to be our 2nd line center the way it stands now, and it is kind of promising, I think he is better now than Cody was in camp last year so it will be exciting to see how he does, and if it doesn't work out Higgins is a better player than Bozak so he would be fine too.

You forgot Kyle Beach also coming our way, as well as getting rid of Keith Ballard.


That makes no sense from our perspective, trade away our depth on defense for a bust in a year we are going all out for a cup.

Where's the logic?

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 08 January 2013 - 09:50 PM.

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#591 Russ

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:43 PM

I'm not so worried about age, more about value coming back. We're taking a 4th round pick from 07', a free agent signing and soon to be UFA in Bozak, as well as a throw in 2nd round pick. These scraps combined do not equal Luongo.

Most people on here we struggling with the idea of Bozak, Kadri, and a 2nd, when that return is clearly superior to this new rumour. At least in this deal we get a top prospect.

I want that deal much more but a sign n trade with Bozak (so he's not UFA anymore). I do sort of like Fratton simply because he is a RW while Kadri is a left. I think Kadri has potential to be better but I am sure I would get used to Fratton very quickly.

The only reason Luongo wants a trade is because he's finally had competition for the starting job. What I'm saying is, a player who is a team player won't care where they play, they just want the team to win. Luongo is showing no loyalty to the Canucks especially after signing the long term contract extension, he figured he would retire as a Canuck. But as soon as Schneider developed and replaced Luongo, he immediately wanted out. Which means one of 2 things- He's only interested in money or he's only interested in playing on a team where he's not contested for the starting job, which is never a good thing and shows that Luongo thinks he's better than Schneider when last season proved that was not the case and proves my point that Luongo is not a team player.

Or Luongo knows he is still a top flight goalie who is a starter on majority of teams and the Canucks want to go with a younger and new face...

He gets his money regardless no matter if he plays here as a backup or as a starter somewhere else. Its not that he's not contested for a starting job, he knows the Canucks plan is to go with Schneider from now on and if he wants to be a starting goalie and a chance at a cup then Vancouver isn't the place for him.

Edited by Russ, 08 January 2013 - 09:53 PM.

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#592 Quint

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:45 PM

<p>

<br />
The only reason Luongo wants a trade is because he&#39;s finally had competition for the starting job. What I&#39;m saying is, a player who is a team player won&#39;t care where they play, they just want the team to win. Luongo is showing no loyalty to the Canucks especially after signing the long term contract extension, he figured he would retire as a Canuck. But as soon as Schneider developed and replaced Luongo, he immediately wanted out. Which means one of 2 things- He&#39;s only interested in money or he&#39;s only interested in playing on a team where he&#39;s not contested for the starting job, which is never a good thing and shows that Luongo thinks he&#39;s better than Schneider when last season proved that was not the case and proves my point that Luongo is not a team player.<br />

<br />
<br />
</p>

I don't know. Lou has said all the right things lately, including saying he is willing to play out the season here if that's how things shake down. I gotta tell ya I am not as confident as many here that Schneider is going to be better than Luongo. I think there is a very real possibility that if we trade Luongo we will regret it.
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#593 Strawberries

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:46 PM

.

Where's the logic?


Your on Cdc.. there is no logic

Edited by ReaperCrew, 08 January 2013 - 09:46 PM.

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#594 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:50 PM

Projected Florida line up:

Fleischmann - Weiss - Versteeg
Bergenheim - Huberdeau - Kopecky
Goc - Matthias - Upshall
Mueller - Santorelli - Parros
Skille, Kovalev (PTO)

That lineup isn't exactly deep at centre. I believe Huberdeau might even be used on the wing. I can't see Florida trading their top centre in Weiss, for Luongo. Even if they did, do we want an offensive minded, undersized forward centering our 3rd line?


Where did you get the line-up? Cause I would assume that Goc would be 3C with Mattias on the LW since he can play LW proficently and Goc is a more reliable defensive 3rd Line center.

Also it would be my guess that Mueller and Upshall would be in top 6 roles with Kopecky and Bergenheim dropping to the 3rd. also Flesichmann can play center.

Capable center's aside from Weiss: Mueller, Flesichmann, Mattias, Goc, Santorelli, Huberdeau. I think they would be okay myself.

And would we want him? Hell ya, would rather take him over Bozak gladly and I would put him in the top 6 either on the Wing or perhaps move Kesler over (Although I'm not a fan of that, would rather see Weiss slide over)

I'd prefer Bozak. Energy player, works very hard, versatile, can score, etc.

Though I must admit that I think it's more likely that Luongo ends up as a Panther.


:lol: You would take Bozak over Weiss??

Weiss >>>>>>>>>>>>> Bozak, Bozak isn't even much of an improvement on Lappierre for a 3rd line role, whereas Weiss would slot into our top 6 and be brilliant.

How soon people forget that James Reimer was pretty freaking good in 2011, as a rookie:

37 GP, 20-10-5, 3 SO, .921, 2.60

Let's not discount that those numbers are while on the Maple Leafs. If he's healthy, not unreasonable at all for the Leafs to try and give him another shot.


Andrew Raycroft was quite good in his rookie year, as was Steve Mason.

They gave him a huge chance this year and what did he prove? He isn't ready to be a number 1.

Even more interesting:

Curious if the price was too high, or if they felt he wasn't enough of a sure thing, or what.


Maybe they didn't want to take on another unproven, young up and coming goalie since they have Riemer and Scrivens that fit that bill well (Even though niether have the upside Bernier has, or are quite as good as Bernier but still, wouldn't be much of an improvement like Lu would)

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 08 January 2013 - 11:11 PM.

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#595 oldnews

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:51 PM

Here's a twist I'd like to see.
MG agrees to pay none of Luo's salary and retain none of his cap hit.

The Leafs must agree to terms on a re-up with Bozak prior to cutting a deal, and they must pay half his salary, and retain half of his cap hit haha.
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#596 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:55 PM

Exactly my concern.

After this season, Bozak decides to go for a big raise that we can't afford. Frattin is a decent NHLer but has a ceiling of a third or fourth liner. And the 2nd round pick ends up being an average prospect like Sauve or Rodin.

Then what would we have to show for trading Luongo? A third liner? All while the Leafs have a number 1 goalie for the next 5 years, and make the playoffs every year.

Oh, and we get stuck with part of Luongo's cap hit when he retires...Yea, great deal for us.


Exactly, that's why Kadri needs to be in the deal from our side, and something else. (Finn would be nice) Id we do that deal and Bozak walks (Which is a huge possibility with Edler being our #1 priority) we have little to show for the trade.

And personally if we are going for a rental I would rather McArthur than Bozak, he can play a bigger role, is a better player and fills a bigger need (2RW) and really we have Lappy already (And Possibly Schroeder & Manny) who is perfectly capable of filling the 3C spot, but no one has shown (Aside from Higgins who is better on the 3rd IMO) that they can fill that role.
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#597 Vigneault's Timeout

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:57 PM

If I were Luongo, I would have had a post-lockout bunker prepared before the season started.
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#598 goblix

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:58 PM

Personally I'd take Bozak and Kadri for luongo straight up,
huge offensive boost, centre stability and cap relief for this year,

next year I think we can find some cap room for Edler and Bozak, just need to trade / buyout Ballard or booth for picks,
The prospects we have in our pool will hopefully keep us in a good cap situation for the next couple of years,

kassian / kadri / jensen / schroeder (?) / gaunce (?) / rodin (?)

connaughton / tanev / corrado

we have good prospects in the system and hopefully they turn to studs when our existing studs decide to retire.
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#599 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:59 PM

TOR
Luongo
Ballard
Raymond
Hansen
1st

VAN
Phaneuf
Kessel


:lol: Dream on.
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#600 WiDeN

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 10:02 PM

If Bozak helps us get a cup then Who cares if he walks

That's a big if.
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