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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 4.0


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#91 King of the ES

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 06:53 AM

Interesting what they were talking about with Florida, I wouldn't mind getting Weiss as a rental (Cause I doubt we would re-sign him if unless we have the cap space after Edler is signed which is priority #1)


Florida would still need to find something to do with Theodore or Clemmensen (probably Clemmensen), as they're both signed.

It would also then put them in a bad bargaining position for a Markstrom trade, which basically would need to happen, eventually, to accommodate Luongo's lifetime contract.
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#92 WHL rocks

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 07:05 AM

Wow, this is going to be exciting. NHL season starting and a big trade coming up.
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#93 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 07:25 AM

Well now we will see if that Toronto deal that the media said was in place really is or not. If it is, I can finally prove Smashian wrong on his views of Kadri!

Game on!

oh....

AND!

GO CANUCKS GO!!!!!!! BRING IT HOME THIS YEAR BOYS! (YA EVEN YOU KESLER AND BIEKSA!)
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#94 WHL rocks

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:00 AM

I think if its Luongo to TOR it will be for Kadri, Franson, Bozak package.
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#95 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:19 AM

I think if its Luongo to TOR it will be for Kadri, Franson, Bozak package.


Keep Franson, Bozak, and let the leafs keep Kadri and give us Biggs.

Edited by BuretoMogilny, 06 January 2013 - 08:19 AM.

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#96 WHL rocks

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:25 AM

Keep Franson, Bozak, and let the leafs keep Kadri and give us Biggs.


Kadri is much closer to playing in NHL, he's more offensive and he's a C. VAN needs an offensive C prospect pretty desperately I think Kadri replaces Hodgson if we get him.

Biggs still 19 and a ways away from the NHL. Love his size though.

Edited by WHL rocks, 06 January 2013 - 08:28 AM.

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#97 Boudrias

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:33 AM

The problem with Luongo is the problem that we will have with Schneider. Our D isn't built to be pinned in their zone. They are offensive minded, and have given up on defensive play. We are a breakout, D pinching team. Our D aren't the fastest or most mobile. And they aren't tough. When we get pinned in our zone, other teams started to hammer shots down low on Luongo. Something that every team does on good goalies. And our D is not suited to do this. They lose the rebound battles. Chicago and Boston ate Luongo alive with the same strategy more or less. And it's likely the same thing will apply to Schneider.

Teams take advantage of our more offensive minded D, and the lack of size and grit to put them off of crowding in front. Unless THAT changes, it's going to be amusing people going DERPDERP WHAT HAPPENED TO SCHNEIDER DERPDERP.

Our defense is not goalie friendly. The best goalies in the league right now? Bostom collapses on Thomas and clears the front. Nashville collapses on Rinne. LA collapses on Quick. Boston has Chara and Seidenberg. Nashville has Weber and had Suter. Chicago had Seabrook and Keith to protect their goalies.

Remember when people LOVED Mason and Leclaire when they were on CBJ and Hitchcock was there? Well.. Hitchcock left, and both of them suck now. He went up to St. Louis. Surprise. Elliot and Halak are godly duo. But wait.. Halak was good in Montreal too on that playoff run.. but remember what Montreal did? They collapsed like frack and tried to block every shot ever that run.

Remember the first year Luongo was here? Canucks collapsed and played like the trap, but we couldn't score for crap.. but what happened? Luongo was nominated for the vezina and the HART TROPHY. Something which a lot of people thought he should've won.

(I still remember the first time Luongo went down with that injury for like a quarter of a season and people thought Sanford and Schneider would be fine.. then we went like .250 hockey the whole time. Lol.)

This is all highlighted and magnified by the simple fact that Canucks have a crapty playoff offense and we end up having to play all the teams that grind it out and battle in front.. battles that we generally lose.

I don't think it matters personally if we keep Schneider or Luongo, they haven't been the problem. I'm not holding my breathe for this season on top of that, because we don't have Kesler and he won't be healthy, and Edler is coming off back surgery and Garrison is a question mark who has to gel with the system. We are prepped for a pretty awful start offensively and defensively.

Good post! I think Lu was disliked by some media in Van because he challeneged their understanding of the game. He refused to accept all responsibility for letting goals in when his d-core broke down. It was no dif when Cloutier was left out to hand many nights. 'Run & Gun' works well during the season but CUP contending d-cores usually find a way of shutting that type of offence down.
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#98 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:42 AM

Good post! I think Lu was disliked by some media in Van because he challeneged their understanding of the game. He refused to accept all responsibility for letting goals in when his d-core broke down. It was no dif when Cloutier was left out to hand many nights. 'Run & Gun' works well during the season but CUP contending d-cores usually find a way of shutting that type of offence down.


This is certainly part of it. But the fundamental issue remains. Schnieder is the superior goalie, on the way up, cheaper and better technically. Lou is aging, not better fundamentally, and has peaked, and in the plateau and eventual downswing of his career, and more expensive.

They both play behind the same defense and Schnieder has put up better numbers.

However, I partly agree, there are two things this team needs on Defense.

1. A tough stay at home player who plays a simple game and can make a quick outlet pass
2. A real top ten Dman - can Eddy be that, I think so, and hopefully this year proves it.

Not every team is going to have a Chara, Neidermayer, Pronger, Weber. There is a reason they are paid so much, bc everyone wants them and there are few around.

I think one of the issues on defense is actually our coaching. Our dmen have to be coached better on dzone coverage when their partner is in trouble, and how to provide an outlet, as do our forwards. Defensive zone coverage is a team issue not just dmen and yes when teams pressure our d they get running around and I get the willies.

You see it happening, you know whats coming and you pray our goalie will hold the fort. Unfortnately, Lou just doesn't seem to be able to do that as well a Schnieds now.
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#99 Southpop45

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:55 AM

tsn did a couple segments on luongo today and they named three realistic suitors that were interested.

1) Toronto - the team everyone knows wants lu. i dont buy that a deal is already made but i do believe that burke has pitched his best offer pending that nobody else ups the price. right now the offer is proably some combination of bozak, fransons rights, kadri, a B-level prospect, and a 1st or 2nd round pick

2) Florida - lu's prefered destination. we all know whats going on here, florida wants to aquire lu but the asking price is too high for them. after all this time gillis is still being firm with tallon that A-level prospect Nick Bjugstad must be part of the deal. right now the package that florida would have to send to get a deal done would have to include either stephen weiss or shawn matthais and of course nick bjjugstad. tallon has no problem trading matthais or weiss, bjugstad is the peice he refuses to let go of. gillis would have to send schorder, a roster player, and a pick along wih lu back to florida to make a trade a realisitc possibility

3) Edmonton - came into the picture right before the CBA expired. the only way this trade happens is if edmonton severly overpays and i dont see that happening. a fair trade would likley send paarvi, 1st, and jones. howerver a fair trade is not going to get it done, seeing as edmonton is a divisional opponent.

Edited by Southpop45, 06 January 2013 - 08:58 AM.

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#100 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:09 AM

tsn did a couple segments on luongo today and they named three realistic suitors that were interested.

1) Toronto - the team everyone knows wants lu. i dont buy that a deal is already made but i do believe that burke has pitched his best offer pending that nobody else ups the price. right now the offer is proably some combination of bozak, fransons rights, kadri, a B-level prospect, and a 1st or 2nd round pick

2) Florida - lu's prefered destination. we all know whats going on here, florida wants to aquire lu but the asking price is too high for them. after all this time gillis is still being firm with tallon that A-level prospect Nick Bjugstad must be part of the deal. right now the package that florida would have to send to get a deal done would have to include either stephen weiss or shawn matthais and of course nick bjjugstad. tallon has no problem trading matthais or weiss, bjugstad is the peice he refuses to let go of. gillis would have to send schorder, a roster player, and a pick along wih lu back to florida to make a trade a realisitc possibility

3) Edmonton - came into the picture right before the CBA expired. the only way this trade happens is if edmonton severly overpays and i dont see that happening. a fair trade would likley send paarvi, 1st, and jones. howerver a fair trade is not going to get it done, seeing as edmonton is a divisional opponent.


Interesting on FLA.

Schroeder is a hard one to throw in there..and the pick...that looks like a rape from FLA if you ask me...Lou, a roster, Schroed and a pick lol!
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#101 King of the ES

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:10 AM

tsn did a couple segments on luongo today and they named three realistic suitors that were interested.

1) Toronto - the team everyone knows wants lu. i dont buy that a deal is already made but i do believe that burke has pitched his best offer pending that nobody else ups the price. right now the offer is proably some combination of bozak, fransons rights, kadri, a B-level prospect, and a 1st or 2nd round pick


Not what was said. Bob McKenzie said that Bozak was the obvious part of the package with maybe a prospect as well. Didn't say anything about Franson, Kadri, or any picks (unless he was too into my coffee this morning and not paying full attention).
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#102 King of the ES

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:11 AM

Interesting on FLA.

Schroeder is a hard one to throw in there..and the pick...that looks like a rape from FLA if you ask me...Lou, a roster, Schroed and a pick lol!


Stephen Weiss, yuck. That would make no sense. Career Floridian who made the playoffs for the first time this past season, at the age of 29. Pass.
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#103 King of the ES

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:13 AM

3) Edmonton - came into the picture right before the CBA expired. the only way this trade happens is if edmonton severly overpays and i dont see that happening. a fair trade would likley send paarvi, 1st, and jones. howerver a fair trade is not going to get it done, seeing as edmonton is a divisional opponent.


But they did also talk about how well Dubnyk had played in the Spengler Cup, so it would make sense for Edmonton to want to at least give him another shot. They're still high on him.
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#104 70seven

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:13 AM

Lou will be a Leaf. By the sounds of things, theyre the only ones willing to give anywhere close to what Gillis wants.

Deal still not likley to be announced untill after CBA ratification.


3-5 more days of speculation... :picard:
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#105 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:21 AM

Lou will be a Leaf. By the sounds of things, theyre the only ones willing to give anywhere close to what Gillis wants.

Deal still not likley to be announced untill after CBA ratification.


3-5 more days of speculation... :picard:


I love how people make predictions/speculate with a tone that they know!

lol

Add "I think" in front and you won't sound like you think you're MG
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#106 Pears

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:21 AM

Stephen Weiss, yuck. That would make no sense. Career Floridian who made the playoffs for the first time this past season, at the age of 29. Pass.

Stephen Weiss - Perfect second line playmaker for Kesler and Booth, put up 57, 49, 60, and 61 points over the last 4 seasons and 5 points (2-3-5) in 7 games in his FIRST playoff appearance. Only you King would prefer Komisarek, Bozak and a 2nd over Weiss.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#107 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:30 AM

Stephen Weiss - Perfect second line playmaker for Kesler and Booth, put up 57, 49, 60, and 61 points over the last 4 seasons and 5 points (2-3-5) in 7 games in his FIRST playoff appearance. Only you King would prefer Komisarek, Bozak and a 2nd over Weiss.


I think I'd take Weiss, Mattias, and a 1st, leave out Bjugstaad if FLA is so sticky on it.

Solves our current issues on the second line (move Weiss to the wing). Matthias is big and tough and as much as MG wants a premier prospect, I do agree and am logical enough to realize the only way that happens is with a bidding war.

Can one be created, never know, never say never, but right now from all the chatter doesn't appear as such.
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#108 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:48 AM

Great comments on the Value to the Leafs (and takes a bow very much what I have said in the past).

Which is the reason the Leafs will give up a REAL talent to get him.

http://video.tsn.ca/...837895/clip/397


Also interesting, this may help, media pumping up his tires now vs. kicking him down...

May have an impact, since there was so much negativity around him...

Also, some interesting comments of their (leafs) lack of talent at center - ha! Kadri? lol...My point again. Lack of talent at center yet Kadri can't make it!!!

Question to panel - Do leafs make the playoffs without Lou? Resounding No from ALL

Edited by BuretoMogilny, 06 January 2013 - 09:54 AM.

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#109 Spyderr

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:54 AM

id take just weiss

with kesler hurt this lu deal wont take long as either weiss or bozak will be playing center here when the season starts
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Come on LU

#110 WHL rocks

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:02 AM

BB's job is on the line. If the Leafs don't make the play offs he won't return next year, especially with the ownership change in TOR. The owners are cable companies, they need playoffs to generate revenue for their TV channels.

Although I'm a big MG supporter I don't think he's a good trader. With the Luongo trade MG has an opportunity to make up for his past shortcomings. He should hold off until BB folds and gives MG what he wants. If MG doesn't win this trade I'll be very disappointing.
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#111 King of the ES

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:12 AM

Stephen Weiss - Perfect second line playmaker for Kesler and Booth, put up 57, 49, 60, and 61 points over the last 4 seasons and 5 points (2-3-5) in 7 games in his FIRST playoff appearance. Only you King would prefer Komisarek, Bozak and a 2nd over Weiss.


So we couldn't give Cody a shot at the 2nd line C, but Stephen Weiss will be able to just waltz right in there and bump Kesler to the wing?
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#112 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:12 AM

BB's job is on the line. If the Leafs don't make the play offs he won't return next year, especially with the ownership change in TOR. The owners are cable companies, they need playoffs to generate revenue for their TV channels.

Although I'm a big MG supporter I don't think he's a good trader. With the Luongo trade MG has an opportunity to make up for his past shortcomings. He should hold off until BB folds and gives MG what he wants. If MG doesn't win this trade I'll be very disappointing.


I am in 100% agreement with you, said the same thing many months back. I live in TO and go to many leafs games (yes shame, but i go to watch the other teams!)...

And in my many years here, never have I heard the vitreol from the leaf faithful I heard last year. The Boos, the fire wilson chants which then moved to fire burke...

Short leash and he MUST make the playoffs and the best way is with a goalie who will make up for your team's holes....

MG must rape him

Edited by BuretoMogilny, 06 January 2013 - 10:13 AM.

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#113 King of the ES

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:15 AM

Although I'm a big MG supporter I don't think he's a good trader. With the Luongo trade MG has an opportunity to make up for his past shortcomings. He should hold off until BB folds and gives MG what he wants. If MG doesn't win this trade I'll be very disappointing.


This trade was lost a long time ago. We're not going to get nearly equal value for a guy like Roberto Luongo, who is still very, very good. We should've held on to Lou and traded Schneider; return would've been far higher and we're not placing this franchise at the behest of a first-time starter.

The real loss was in how this was handled by Gillis.
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#114 WHL rocks

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:18 AM

This trade was lost a long time ago. We're not going to get nearly equal value for a guy like Roberto Luongo, who is still very, very good. We should've held on to Lou and traded Schneider; return would've been far higher and we're not placing this franchise at the behest of a first-time starter.

The real loss was in how this was handled by Gillis.


I have no problems with what you say. I've said many times here that Lu could stay and Schneider could be traded, doesn't seem like it's going go happen now. I think Lu is gone by the trade deadline.

Schneider could have returned a very nice package.
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#115 King of the ES

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:19 AM

Short leash and he MUST make the playoffs and the best way is with a goalie who will make up for your team's holes....


Why "MUST" he make the playoffs?

If they sneak in with Lou as the 7th seed, and get bounced in 5 games, what really has been gained? Especially if they part ways with a guy like Kadri, who goes on to excel in Vancouver.

A lot of you aren't seeing the risk from the other side. There's TONS of risk in whoever acquires Lu, which is why the current offering price is rumored to be so much lower than what MG wants. For example, what if Burke acquires him and he just doesn't play that good? What if he acquires him and they still miss the playoffs? What if they make the playoffs, but Lu melts down? Tons of inherent risk.
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#116 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:20 AM

Why "MUST" he make the playoffs?

If they sneak in with Lou as the 7th seed, and get bounced in 5 games, what really has been gained? Especially if they part ways with a guy like Kadri, who goes on to excel in Vancouver.

A lot of you aren't seeing the risk from the other side. There's TONS of risk in whoever acquires Lu, which is why the current offering price is rumored to be so much lower than what MG wants. For example, what if Burke acquires him and he just doesn't play that good? What if he acquires him and they still miss the playoffs? What if they make the playoffs, but Lu melts down? Tons of inherent risk.


LOL go back to your fairy tales kid. I guess you know more than 3 guys that played in the NHL watch my link.

Edited by BuretoMogilny, 06 January 2013 - 10:21 AM.

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#117 King of the ES

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:39 AM

LOL go back to your fairy tales kid. I guess you know more than 3 guys that played in the NHL watch my link.


Answer the question!

Do you honestly think that a single playoff appearance will absolve Brian Burke from the fans' vitriol?
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#118 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:46 AM

I am completely convinced that if Luo gets traded he will go to a left field team that can give us a reliable goaltender

To San Jose
Luo
Higgins
3rd

To Van
Niemi
Clowe
1st

Of corse all of you homers will say we are overpaying but in reality both teams need to feel they are getting the upper hand.
SJ is more desperate than we are to keep the window open. I don't think Clowe likes SJ he constantly lays that out in interviews. He would help this team and MG would be all over locking him up.
You wanna buy out a goalie? I think neimi would be an easier buy and probably relatively easy to move when lack is ready
Higgins is awesome but Clowe is more awesome both UFA's

We give SJ short term cap relief they give us long term cap relief.

We will not get high end prospects for Luo or capspace
it will involve a money exchange. So MG can help the team now and a contender can fit Luo in.

The buy out is kind of an interesting tool. We could take a big contract from a team that cannot afford a buyout in exchange for prospects. Like a DePetro. I can't imagine what the islanders would give to unload that sucker. Not saying Luongo would be part of that but it would be another way to acquire youth rather than using Luo.


The problem with this for us is signing Clowe next season. Much like the article surrounding Edler not being able to be signed there is the same talk about Clowe. I like Clowe and I like this trade but I don't like the circumstances surrounding it.
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#119 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:46 AM

Answer the question!

Do you honestly think that a single playoff appearance will absolve Brian Burke from the fans' vitriol?


ABSOLUTELY!!! The fans in T.O haven't seen a playoff game in what 8 years? They still pay the highest ticket prices in the NHL and sell out every game.

You could argue for that reason Bell/Rogers don't really care what happens on the ice (given people still go) but given the reaction last year, Burkey's leash is now short (always the case when the coach is fired, means time is running thin right?). Moreover, Leafs tickets are getting easier to come by given the prices and play. Another season of non playoffs and you'll see fans not paying the exorbinant prices at the gate.

He must make the playoffs to save his job, his owners will expect it (he's been here what 4/5 years?), and he knows it. And if the Leaf's faithful make the playoffs, their anger subsides into delusions of cups even if they squeek in and Burke is a hero, that is the mindset of leaf fans.

Edited by BuretoMogilny, 06 January 2013 - 10:47 AM.

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#120 eretz canucks

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:47 AM

To Fla

Luongo
Hansen
2nd

To Van
Weiss
Matthias
1st
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