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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 4.0


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#1441 smurf47

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:49 PM

A mediocre start for Lou would put a huge damper on his trade value. That risk is way to dangerous to chance .
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#1442 brewdog

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:50 PM

Luongo seems very zen like lately. I like the new Luongo.

I'm thinking that if the Flyers did in fact inquire about Luongo, they may have said: if he's available after the season we would be interested.

Cause really it doesn't make that much sense for the Flers to acquire Luongo when they still have Bryzgalov. But come summertime, when they can use one of their buyouts on Bryzgalov, then it makes more sense.

I'm starting to think Luongo stays a Canucks for this shortened season though.


I like reading your thoughts, but I don't understand how Bryz gets bought out. How much would that be? $25M? Didn't the team earn $10-15M last year?
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#1443 Nuxfanabroad

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:50 PM

Philly

Luongo
Kulemin
Franson

Van

Couturier
Bozak

Tor

Bryzgalov
Raymond
Connaughton
Van 2nd
Philly 2nd


Philly gets an elite goalie, and more depth to their Offense and Defense with solid additions that will play their physical style. They lose Couturier, an unwanted Bryz and a 2nd to acquire

Van gets immense center depth for years to come ensuring with Jensen, Kassian, Couturier, Bozak, Gaunce, and Hansen make a physical top 9 to ensure our competitiveness.

Toronto lose Franson, Bozak, and Kulemin 2 of which were RFA and in exchange load up on picks and prospects, they get their goalie, have a replacement for Kulemin immediately and essentially can have Reilly replacing Franson this year.

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Booth Kesler Higgins
Couturier Bozak Kassian
Malhotra Lapierre Hansen
Weise Ebbet Jensen/Gaunce

Hamhuis Bieksa
Edler Garrison
Ballard Tanev
Alberts Barker

Schneider

This is the kind of depth you need to win a cup.



This is a fairly strong, feasible proposal. Philly has a pending Cap-cliff; thus I'd add Simmonds to us, & our 1st rounder to them. Our forward lines would be sweet! Good one, Merci


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#1444 brewdog

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:53 PM

I think MG will strike while the iron is hot and the interest in Lou is at a peak !


I keep speculating that this time will be 10 games into this season when one of the suitors is 2-8-0-0 with some .889 SV%, 3.50 GAA goaltending.
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#1445 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:54 PM

Are u being sarcastic? :picard:

Gardiner currently has ten times the NHL points as Tanev???

At this point Tanev is better than Gardiner. All Gardiner has is potential. He's done nothing in the NHL.


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#1446 Garrison

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:57 PM

Are u being sarcastic? :picard:

Gardiner currently has ten times the NHL points as Tanev???


To be fair Tanev is much, much better than Gardiner in his own end. Did you watch the World Juniours. How bad was Reilly and Murphy? Awful that's because they can only play offense. Tanev is a much more complete player.
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#1447 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:58 PM

Kaberle being a rental increased his value; no commitment beyond this season, which lowers the risk of the transaction (unlike Luongo).

Carter & Richards were dealt as 26 year-olds. Again, vastly different than the stage of the career that Luongo is at.


Actually you would think if Kaberle was as good as they thought they were when the Bruins acquired him, having an extra year or two would increase the value, I think we will get something better though. When you break it down the return wasn't as amazing is it looked when Toronto pulled off the trade.

I agree with the Carter/Richards comments, that was also my stance all along.

Mike Smith on Phoenix last year is a nice example. Garbage on Tampa, excellent on Phoenix. A goalie-friendly system can make an average goalie excellent.


A great goalie can make an average team excellent, we will see if Smith can continue it or not, but he made Phoenix better more so than Phoenix making him better.

At this point Tanev is better than Gardiner. All Gardiner has is potential. He's done nothing in the NHL.


Gardiner > Tanev

I am a huge Tanev fan, more so than Gardiner but Gardiner is the better player right now, and he probably has higher upside too.

Kadri can't play defense, he's just like Hodgson. AV won't trust him, he's still recovering from having to put Hodgson on the ice.
Once Kesler gets back Bozak would be useless. Lapierre is a better option for the 3rd line, he showed it in the playoffs. He centered our 3rd line to game 7 of the finals.

So I don't want an If and a throw-away for Luongo. Better deals can be had.


No guarentee AV will be around, I would like to get Kadri, he is still young and developing so he doesn't have to step in right away, and after Kesler and Henrik he probably has more talent than any other option. Would add much needed quality to our prospect pool which lacks it.

I think its about time AV lets some of his young players make a mistake and still get out the next shift. That's the only way players are going to get better. Young players make mistakes, they always have always will. Even the great young stars.

I think Kadri, Bozak and 2nd is what's coming back for Lu. This whole Philly thing is just a bunch of hog wash.

Give Kadri lots of ice, let him make mistakes and learn from them. This way he'll be ready and better for it come playoff time. Same goes with Kassian, Tanev et all.

President's trophy in not whats important. There is only one trophy that counts and we need some younger guys and the energy they bring on the team to get there.


I agree completely. I would like Franson to be added to that deal though, Cause he is an RFA and doesn't want to play in Toronto, so he is essentially useless from there perspective, he will just hold out and they will have to move him, he would be a throw in in this trade and could be a nice one, imagine having him and Barker as depth defenders, that would really stack our depth on D if barker can play up to his capabilities. Bozak isn't terrible but isn't great either, would rather have Frattin but I do understand we won't get a ton, if it looks possible then I would certainty push for it though.

Kadri, Bozak, Franson, 2nd.
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#1448 clutesi

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:59 PM

Bozek and Kadri will compound the Canucks size problems at the forward position. We already have enough small sized forwards who can handle the puck, or at least play soft. The Flyers have some big young forwards. A big forward could slide down to the third line when Kes comes back. It just gives us way more options than taking another small, skilled forward (or two).
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#1449 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:02 PM

Bigg's was in parenthesis because I thought we needed more for Lou than Bozak and Kadri. But..., so I just summed it as Bozak, Kadri and Gardiner.

As for value; Edler and Lou are both all stars, and likely to be again. Nobody of that ilk coming back, just thoughtful spending on players who can fill useful roles here. Toronto easily improves their on ice performance with that trade!

And T.O. positions themselves to keep Edler, Lupul and Kessel which currently they are under the gun to do.

Kadri, Bozak, Gardiner, Biggs, and MacArthur for Luongo and expering contract elder? Lol!


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#1450 Everybody Hates Raymond

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:06 PM

Bunch of clueless hacks just can't understand DON'T DISCUSS STUFF in the [NEWS ONLY] thread. It boggles my mind at their poor level of reading comprehension.
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#1451 thad

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:11 PM

Luongo seems very zen like lately. I like the new Luongo.

I'm thinking that if the Flyers did in fact inquire about Luongo, they may have said: if he's available after the season we would be interested.

Cause really it doesn't make that much sense for the Flers to acquire Luongo when they still have Bryzgalov. But come summertime, when they can use one of their buyouts on Bryzgalov, then it makes more sense.

I'm starting to think Luongo stays a Canucks for this shortened season though.


you make alot of sense about the flyers. Thing about that is, if they really wanted him that badly (by badly i mean willing to give up a good young prospect) they would be trying to get him now. So i dont see a better offer coming at the end of the season if gillis waits.

i really dont see philly being a serious player in this.
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#1452 Skead

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:12 PM

Bunch of clueless hacks just can't understand DON'T DISCUSS STUFF in the [NEWS ONLY] thread. It boggles my mind at their poor level of reading comprehension.


Your face when this is the discussion thread.
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#1453 TheEhrhoffEffect

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:18 PM

Yeah the guy I argue with non-stop.

I'm just able to see the reality that there are some major negatives and turn offs in the negotiation (10 years left, 33 years old, penalty for the contract, struggles with consistentcy, wants out, we have to move him before next season, there is a small market)

I do think he will get us a solid return, & toronto will benefit big time from getting him. with Nonis I could see: Kadri, Frattin/Biggs, 1st. And under the circumstances that's pretty good IMO, better than what is being speculated about by all the media and alot of fans.

Nonis never sells the farm. Last time he got Lu for Bert, Auld and Allen, not any young prospects. If Nonis is smart, he'll make a trade for a younger goalie or sign someone like Backstrom or Thomas in the offseason. The Leafs are still rebuilding.

The only deal that makes sense with T.O is if Canucks get a package like Bozak, Franson and a 2nd for Lu, which would also help fill some holes on Vancouver.

Edited by TheEhrhoffEffect, 11 January 2013 - 05:21 PM.

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#1454 Millerdraft

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:22 PM

They picked a pretty similar player to Gaunce earlier in the same draft.

That's the point. Having two of the same player = far greater chance that vacated hole will be filled at the NHL level by one of them and if both make it? Well rinse and repeat exactly what they've been doing the past few years, including this hypothetical transaction.

I mean, why draft Giroux when you have Carter and Richards? Why draft Couturier when you have Giroux and B. Schenn?
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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#1455 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:24 PM

Nonis never sells the farm. Last time he got Lu for Bert, Auld and Allen, not any young prospects. If Nonis is smart, he'll make a trade for a younger goalie or sign someone like Backstrom or Thomas in the offseason. The Leafs are still rebuilding.

The only deal that makes sense with T.O is if Canucks get a package like Bozak, Franson and a 2nd for Lu, which would also help fill some holes on Vancouver.


Your right that's a bit high, but Bozak/Franson/2nd isn't very good.

Bozak isn't really an upgrade on Lappy for the 3rd line spot, Franson struggled last year, he isn't better than Tanev & He doesn't want to play for Toronto & doesn't have a contract so his value is pretty low, then the 2nd will be in it either way IMO but one of the other 2 pieces have to be better.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 11 January 2013 - 05:25 PM.

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#1456 TheEhrhoffEffect

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:28 PM

Your right that's a bit high, but Bozak/Franson/2nd isn't very good.

Bozak isn't really an upgrade on Lappy for the 3rd line spot, Franson struggled last year, he isn't better than Tanev & He doesn't want to play for Toronto & doesn't have a contract so his value is pretty low, then the 2nd will be in it either way IMO but one of the other 2 pieces have to be better.

Bozak had 47 pts in 73 games last year. He's only been in the league for 2.5 years. He's also great at both ends of the ice (can play both PP and PK). Explain how he's not an upgrade over Lappy.

I'm not saying that this is going to be the trade, but that is the value that Luongo is going to bring back with a trade with the Leafs.

Edited by TheEhrhoffEffect, 11 January 2013 - 05:29 PM.

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#1457 Everybody Hates Raymond

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:28 PM

Your face when this is the discussion thread.


Except I took my comments here. Because I wasn't going to post non-reports in that thread.
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#1458 DeNiro

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:36 PM

I like reading your thoughts, but I don't understand how Bryz gets bought out. How much would that be? $25M? Didn't the team earn $10-15M last year?


The Flyers owner probably has the deepest pockets out of any of the owners in the league. I really don't think money is an issue with him. Plus that that 25 million doesn't have to be paid in a lump sum I don't think.

I mean obviously an owner wouldn't be happy about it, but if a player becomes availble to them that gives them a better shot at winning, sometimes you bite the bullet.

But I do think they'll try and trade Bryzagalov before they try and buy him out, if that was the route they plan on going.

Edited by DeNiro, 11 January 2013 - 05:37 PM.

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#1459 Noheart

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:39 PM

Except I took my comments here. Because I wasn't going to post non-reports in that thread.


I told them to get the hell outta there a few times.

I'm actually getting sick of all this Luongo stuff.

it's like eating to many yogart covered almonds you just want someone to take them away so the pain will stop but you have no control you must indulge.

wait till they announce the starting goalie on opening night.

It's just to dam much I am drowning

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#1460 Millerdraft

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:42 PM

A mediocre start for Lou would put a huge damper on his trade value. That risk is way to dangerous to chance .


And if the trade value is already almost as damp as it can get? (Think Bozak & a 2nd)

Why even bother? Having Luongo as injury insurance is better than table scraps.
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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#1461 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:46 PM

The Flyers owner probably has the deepest pockets out of any of the owners in the league. I really don't think money is an issue with him. Plus that that 25 million doesn't have to be paid in a lump sum I don't think.

I mean obviously an owner wouldn't be happy about it, but if a player becomes availble to them that gives them a better shot at winning, sometimes you bite the bullet.

But I do think they'll try and trade Bryzagalov before they try and buy him out, if that was the route they plan on going.


As I understand the buy-out...it's two-thirds of the remaining value of the contract payable in instalments over twice the remaining term of said contract. It also does not count against the cap so for Snider, it is no big deal to buy-out Bryz if he decides to go after Lu. The only challenge is that he can't excute the buy-out until after the season is over.
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#1462 WiDeN

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:48 PM

Philly

Luongo
Kulemin
Franson

Van

Couturier
Bozak

Tor

Bryzgalov
Raymond
Connaughton
Van 2nd
Philly 2nd


Philly gets an elite goalie, and more depth to their Offense and Defense with solid additions that will play their physical style. They lose Couturier, an unwanted Bryz and a 2nd to acquire

Van gets immense center depth for years to come ensuring with Jensen, Kassian, Couturier, Bozak, Gaunce, and Hansen make a physical top 9 to ensure our competitiveness.

Toronto lose Franson, Bozak, and Kulemin 2 of which were RFA and in exchange load up on picks and prospects, they get their goalie, have a replacement for Kulemin immediately and essentially can have Reilly replacing Franson this year.

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Booth Kesler Higgins
Couturier Bozak Kassian
Malhotra Lapierre Hansen
Weise Ebbet Jensen/Gaunce

Hamhuis Bieksa
Edler Garrison
Ballard Tanev
Alberts Barker

Schneider

This is the kind of depth you need to win a cup.

Canucks 101, you see this? This is a proposal.

I quite like this trade, and it's not too far fetched.
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#1463 WiDeN

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:49 PM

And if the trade value is already almost as damp as it can get? (Think Bozak & a 2nd)

Why even bother? Having Luongo as injury insurance is better than table scraps.

With a shortened condensed season full of back to backs I think keep Lu would be the best option, unless we get a blowout offer.
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#1464 Millerdraft

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:51 PM

As I understand the buy-out...it's two-thirds of the remaining value of the contract payable in instalments over twice the remaining term of said contract. It also does not count against the cap so for Snider, it is no big deal to buy-out Bryz if he decides to go after Lu. The only challenge is that he can't excute the buy-out until after the season is over.


They're at $64.7m ($67.4m if you include bonuses but can't you still exceed the cap with the bonus cushion?) and adding Luongo pushes them up to $69.1m (after subtracting Leighton's $900k ap hit) at which point they can maximize Pronger's $4.9m by placing him on the LTI all year. Problem solved?

Edited by Millerdraft, 11 January 2013 - 06:07 PM.

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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#1465 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:57 PM

Bozak had 47 pts in 73 games last year. He's only been in the league for 2.5 years. He's also great at both ends of the ice (can play both PP and PK). Explain how he's not an upgrade over Lappy.

I'm not saying that this is going to be the trade, but that is the value that Luongo is going to bring back with a trade with the Leafs.


Lappierre IMO is a better fit for our 3rd line. Bozak was playing on the top line for most of the year and you know the kid of roll Kessel & Lupul were on. Prior than that he had 32 and 27 Points

He has issue's with consistentcy, Lappierre is bigger, skates just as well if not bigger, more reliable, better defensively and has chemistry on the 3rd line, if it was the 2nd line spot I would probably opt for the more offensive minded Bozak, but if Lappierre is the same player we saw last year and I don't see why he wouldn't be then I think he is the better fit for us, I wouldn't mind Bozak though he would add nice depth.

I think Bozak, Kadri, Franson, 2nd would be nice & pretty fair. Bozak, Kadri, 2nd is being tossed around from the Toronto side but I think we should try to get Franson too, as I said he struggled there & he wants out and doesn't have a contract right now so if we get him in it aswell since his value probably isn't all that high due to circumstances so we should push for it, adds alot of depth.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 11 January 2013 - 06:02 PM.

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#1466 ice orca

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:19 PM

I told them to get the hell outta there a few times.

I'm actually getting sick of all this Luongo stuff.

it's like eating to many yogart covered almonds you just want someone to take them away so the pain will stop but you have no control you must indulge.

wait till they announce the starting goalie on opening night.

It's just to dam much I am drowning

Dont worry yogurt covered nuts are a good cure for constipation.
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#1467 Noheart

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:28 PM

Dont worry yogurt covered nuts are a good cure for constipation.


That explains a lot
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#1468 Tangelos

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:30 PM

Luongo is going to Florida. Tallon has balls, Nonis doesn't.
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#1469 thad

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:05 PM

Lappierre IMO is a better fit for our 3rd line. Bozak was playing on the top line for most of the year and you know the kid of roll Kessel & Lupul were on. Prior than that he had 32 and 27 Points

He has issue's with consistentcy, Lappierre is bigger, skates just as well if not bigger, more reliable, better defensively and has chemistry on the 3rd line, if it was the 2nd line spot I would probably opt for the more offensive minded Bozak, but if Lappierre is the same player we saw last year and I don't see why he wouldn't be then I think he is the better fit for us, I wouldn't mind Bozak though he would add nice depth.

I think Bozak, Kadri, Franson, 2nd would be nice & pretty fair. Bozak, Kadri, 2nd is being tossed around from the Toronto side but I think we should try to get Franson too, as I said he struggled there & he wants out and doesn't have a contract right now so if we get him in it aswell since his value probably isn't all that high due to circumstances so we should push for it, adds alot of depth.


I don't think franson would be a good fit here. In Toronto it was reported he had issues with them not playing him. It's going to be even harder to crack our line up. Especially with tanev being so sound defensively. I really doubt he wants to be 7th defenseman here.
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#1470 WiDeN

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:10 PM

Luongo is going to Florida. Tallon has balls, Nonis doesn't.

You're a very sexual person, aren't you? First I see your hj/bj comment, now you're talking about gonads.

Try this:

Take a shower, put on a nice shirt, two spritz of cologne, then go to a bar or club, try talking to some girls, see what happens.

I sense a lot of pent up tension.
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