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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 4.0


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#121 King of the ES

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:56 AM

ABSOLUTELY!!! The fans in T.O haven't seen a playoff game in what 8 years? They still pay the highest ticket prices in the NHL and sell out every game.


Reminds me of when Vancouver was in the running for Brad Richards in 2008, which "only" would've cost Edler, Kesler, and Schneider. That move probably would've gotten us into the playoffs, but we would not have been a realistic Cup contender. Dave Nonis backed off, which infuriated a lot of people, and it cost him his job. But because of him doing this, he left the Canucks in a prime position for his successor, with a full cupboard.
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#122 DeNiro

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:57 AM

To Fla

Luongo
Hansen
2nd

To Van
Weiss
Matthias
1st


It would be hard to see Hansen go, but that would be hard to turn down.

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Booth Weiss Kesler
Higgins Matthias Kassian
Weise Malhotra Lapierre

Or for 3 lines of attack:

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Booth Kesler Raymond
Higgins Weiss Kassian
Lapiere Matthias Weise/Malhotra

Edited by DeNiro, 06 January 2013 - 10:59 AM.

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#123 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:18 AM

Reminds me of when Vancouver was in the running for Brad Richards in 2008, which "only" would've cost Edler, Kesler, and Schneider. That move probably would've gotten us into the playoffs, but we would not have been a realistic Cup contender. Dave Nonis backed off, which infuriated a lot of people, and it cost him his job. But because of him doing this, he left the Canucks in a prime position for his successor, with a full cupboard.


there we go with the hyperbole - ya everyone is saying we're getting Kessel, Gardiner, and a first

LMAO

go back to dream land
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#124 The Bookie

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:30 AM

I gotta go with BuretoMogilny on this one - simply getting into the playoffs is the main objective for BB & the Leafs right now. I was just in TO over Christmas, it's a huge stigma for fans being the only team not to make the playoffs between the two lockouts. And we wouldn't be raiding their cupboards in this deal. Lu can still mentor Reimer the way he did Schneider.
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#125 Dayman

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:31 AM

Everyone wait! We need samjam to confirm any speculation about any trade to TO :P
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#126 eretz canucks

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:31 AM

If Luongo wants to go to florida, he can now.
How?
Buyout his contract for 2/3 of what we still owe him (47mill)

= 31.33 mil
then resign him to 6 years 3 million = 18 mill
Luongo ends up making 49.333 mil (2.3 mill more now)
trade him to FLA because now they can afford him

Tallon will give us more now!

woohhoooo
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#127 WHL rocks

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:39 AM

There is one way Burke could have saved his job if he didn't make the playoffs next year. That was by committing to a full rebuild when he joined the Leafs. With the Kessel rade Burke declared he was not interested in a rebuild. He promised playoffs. It hasn't materialized for him so this is a huge reason for the heat he takes.

If Burke had Seguin on the roster and maybe Hamilton then his job might be safe, he could claim a rebuild. Right now it's playoffs or bust.
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#128 smurf47

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:56 AM

Good post! I think Lu was disliked by some media in Van because he challeneged their understanding of the game. He refused to accept all responsibility for letting goals in when his d-core broke down. It was no dif when Cloutier was left out to hand many nights. 'Run & Gun' works well during the season but CUP contending d-cores usually find a way of shutting that type of offence down.

and if Lou wasn;t a problem and our defense is so bad, why did Schneider post a .1.96 GAA vs Lou at 2.41 and SP of .937 vs Lou at .919? In the playoffs, Schneider was 1.31 vs Lou at 3.50. Same team, same defense, same opponent ! Lou is tuff to play in front of him partly because hes the king of poor rebound control and gives up too many secondary scoring chances. Schneider is far superior in this aspect . Its the technicality of goaltending as 101 would say !
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#129 playboi19

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:59 AM

We hold all of the cards right now. Shortened season, all the pressure on teams who have very little room for error with goaltending.

Tampa, Columbus, Florida, Toronto, Edmonton all hurting big time.
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#130 DeNiro

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:00 PM

We hold all of the cards right now. Shortened season, all the pressure on teams who have very little room for error with goaltending.

Tampa, Columbus, Florida, Toronto, Edmonton all hurting big time.


Only 3 of those teams are realistic destinations for Luongo.

Doubt he's willing to waive his no trade to go to Edmonton or Columbus.
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#131 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:01 PM

and if Lou wasn;t a problem and our defense is so bad, why did Schneider post a .1.96 GAA vs Lou at 2.41 and SP of .937 vs Lou at .919? In the playoffs, Schneider was 1.31 vs Lou at 3.50. Same team, same defense, same opponent ! Lou is tuff to play in front of him partly because hes the king of poor rebound control and gives up too many secondary scoring chances. Schneider is far superior in this aspect . Its the technicality of goaltending as 101 would say !


Yup exactly. Somewhere along the way, Lou began overplaying the puck, not swallowing rebounds. He now kicks too many shots out into bad spots (poor rebound control as you mentioned), and resultantly if often in bad positions to make second saves. Schnieds plays much like Carey Price, efficient in his movements, good rebound control = little need to overcommit/overreact on second shots thus the better numbers.
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#132 sampy

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:08 PM

and if Lou wasn;t a problem and our defense is so bad, why did Schneider post a .1.96 GAA vs Lou at 2.41 and SP of .937 vs Lou at .919? In the playoffs, Schneider was 1.31 vs Lou at 3.50. Same team, same defense, same opponent ! Lou is tuff to play in front of him partly because hes the king of poor rebound control and gives up too many secondary scoring chances. Schneider is far superior in this aspect . Its the technicality of goaltending as 101 would say !


Schneider is the better goalie. He plays more hybrid and reacts to the shot and play. Lu plays goal like a poker player, positionally and plays the odds. He has troubles adjusting. Saying that Lu is still an elite goalie, top 10, Schneid is top 5. Vancouver is blessed with 2 elite goalies and this blinds many fans. Simply watch the TSN video clip. They all think he is a veteran elite goaltender that would help most teams, especially young teams.

As much as Burke's job rides on getting to the playoffs, this will be MG's biggest move as GM of the Canucks. The Canucks prospect cupboard is fairly bare.
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#133 WiDeN

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:23 PM

Stephen Weiss, yuck. That would make no sense. Career Floridian who made the playoffs for the first time this past season, at the age of 29. Pass.

How many times did your precious Luongo make the playoffs in Florida?
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#134 King of the ES

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:31 PM

there we go with the hyperbole - ya everyone is saying we're getting Kessel, Gardiner, and a first

LMAO

go back to dream land


Biggs, Kadri, Colbourne, Ashton, 1st. A combination of 2 or 3 of those are what most are expecting.

In 2008, Edler was a shell of what he is today, Kesler too. And nobody thought we had any use for Schneider, because we had "the greatest goaltender in the world" (remember that being crammed down our throats?).
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#135 Everybody Hates Raymond

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:32 PM

Here we go again with people trying to post rumours without sources and try to discuss things in the Luongo Rumour/Report thread...
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#136 King of the ES

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:33 PM

Yup exactly. Somewhere along the way, Lou began overplaying the puck, not swallowing rebounds. He now kicks too many shots out into bad spots (poor rebound control as you mentioned), and resultantly if often in bad positions to make second saves. Schnieds plays much like Carey Price, efficient in his movements, good rebound control = little need to overcommit/overreact on second shots thus the better numbers.


Yet this is the guy that you think is going to allow Mike Gillis to "rape" (your words, not mine) Brian Burke?
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#137 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:36 PM

Biggs, Kadri, Colbourne, Ashton, 1st. A combination of 2 or 3 of those are what most are expecting.

In 2008, Edler was a shell of what he is today, Kesler too. And nobody thought we had any use for Schneider, because we had "the greatest goaltender in the world" (remember that being crammed down our throats?).


actually not me..i called this exact situation...
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#138 oldnews

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:38 PM

So we couldn't give Cody a shot at the 2nd line C, but Stephen Weiss will be able to just waltz right in there and bump Kesler to the wing?


I actually agree with you here King.
Moving Kesler to the wing is an absolute waste of his talent - he is one of the premier two-way centers in the NHL - a Selke for a reason. If anyone moves to the wing, it would be Weiss, and regardless, I really don't see him included in a deal. It doesn't make sense to either side.
Weiss is Florida's only veteran top 6 center - they move him and they are extremely young up the middle.
He's not a good option for Vancouver - not the third line type, not going to move Kesler to the wing, no need to convert him to a winger when there are much better winger options out there - and he's going to command too much salary when he re-signs.
I really don't see any chance Vancouver moves Hansen either. Makes no sense for the Canucks to move the two way RW stud.

If Luo goes to Florida:

1st, Matthias (for center depth - don't need a top 6), Petrovic, Upshall (Florida moves some salary, Canucks get some excellent two-way depth who can and has played a lot of RW).

To Toronto:

Frattin, Bozak, 1st, and throw in the rights to Franson for depth.

The Canucks need a RW that can play in the top 9, possibly 6, they need another top 9 center to reduce the impetus that Schroeder steps in immediately, they could use a right side depth defensman but not as essential, and a future to compensate for the fact they are taking 'secondary' roster assets. I'd sacrifice the blue-chip for the balance that a deal like these would bring - the strong possibilty that one or two of those guys really excels in Vancouver - and in both cases they shed some cap.

Edited by oldnews, 06 January 2013 - 12:47 PM.

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#139 King of the ES

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:38 PM

There is one way Burke could have saved his job if he didn't make the playoffs next year. That was by committing to a full rebuild when he joined the Leafs. With the Kessel rade Burke declared he was not interested in a rebuild. He promised playoffs. It hasn't materialized for him so this is a huge reason for the heat he takes.

If Burke had Seguin on the roster and maybe Hamilton then his job might be safe, he could claim a rebuild. Right now it's playoffs or bust.


I disagree. For all of Burke's errors on Toronto, he's also made some very good trades. Both the Phaneuf and the Lupul/Gardiner acquisitions were totally lop-sided. Getting Colborne, a 1st, and a 2nd for Kaberle was also robbery. Quietly, he's acquired quite a lot of quality prospects.

Selling the farm to reach the playoffs once or twice would be seriously bad move. I'm not saying that he's not interested, but to think that he's in a position where he "needs to overpay" for a goalie that's obviously on his way out is foolish.
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#140 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:50 PM

Half serious suggestion;

Lou for Sam Gagner and Klefbom? When they cough add in Schroeder and its close but would make them very good... Schroeder would run around with Glee with those wingers!

It would be hard to see Hansen go, but that would be hard to turn down.

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Booth Weiss Kesler
Higgins Matthias Kassian
Weise Malhotra Lapierre

Or for 3 lines of attack:

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Booth Kesler Raymond
Higgins Weiss Kassian
Lapiere Matthias Weise/Malhotra


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#141 WHL rocks

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:50 PM

I disagree. For all of Burke's errors on Toronto, he's also made some very good trades. Both the Phaneuf and the Lupul/Gardiner acquisitions were totally lop-sided. Getting Colborne, a 1st, and a 2nd for Kaberle was also robbery. Quietly, he's acquired quite a lot of quality prospects.

Selling the farm to reach the playoffs once or twice would be seriously bad move. I'm not saying that he's not interested, but to think that he's in a position where he "needs to overpay" for a goalie that's obviously on his way out is foolish.


I'm a firm believer in building thru the draft and not mortgaging the future to make the playoffs. So you don't have to convince me it would be foolish to overpay. But BB is in a position where he may have to. Other wise he'll be out of a job.

It`s upto MG to take advantage of BB`s situation. If he does, good, if not, like you said Luongo is on his way out anyways. This is where GM`s earn their paychecks. BB has done enough over the years to piss off MG, Sedin tampering, leaking Bieksa, Burrows trade rumor etc. If I`m MG I would try to take BB to the cleaners. He`s ripe for the picking.

Edited by WHL rocks, 06 January 2013 - 12:53 PM.

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#142 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:53 PM

Playing with three #1 overall guys, and Schultz who is being reported as the best non NHL prospect in the world right now? I bet he goes laughing!

Only 3 of those teams are realistic destinations for Luongo.

Doubt he's willing to waive his no trade to go to Edmonton or Columbus.


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 06 January 2013 - 12:55 PM.

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#143 King of the ES

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:54 PM

actually not me..i called this exact situation...


Uh-huh. Sure you did.

To say that you called this exact situation back in 2008 would be akin to saying that we shouldn't bother extending the Sedin's in 2014 because Jordan Schroeder will be the better player at that point.
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#144 oldnews

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:00 PM

Half serious suggestion;

Lou for Sam Gagner and Klefbom? When they cough add in Schroeder and its close but would make them very good... Schroeder would run around with Glee with those wingers!



Is it a good idea to make the Oil better?
If they cough, we laugh back.
Throwing in Schroeder makes that a serious overpayment.
And I don't see Gagner as a great fit tbh.
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#145 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:03 PM

The problem with Luongo is the problem that we will have with Schneider. Our D isn't built to be pinned in their zone. They are offensive minded, and have given up on defensive play. We are a breakout, D pinching team. Our D aren't the fastest or most mobile. And they aren't tough. When we get pinned in our zone, other teams started to hammer shots down low on Luongo. Something that every team does on good goalies. And our D is not suited to do this. They lose the rebound battles. Chicago and Boston ate Luongo alive with the same strategy more or less. And it's likely the same thing will apply to Schneider.

Teams take advantage of our more offensive minded D, and the lack of size and grit to put them off of crowding in front. Unless THAT changes, it's going to be amusing people going DERPDERP WHAT HAPPENED TO SCHNEIDER DERPDERP.

Our defense is not goalie friendly. The best goalies in the league right now? Bostom collapses on Thomas and clears the front. Nashville collapses on Rinne. LA collapses on Quick. Boston has Chara and Seidenberg. Nashville has Weber and had Suter. Chicago had Seabrook and Keith to protect their goalies.

Remember when people LOVED Mason and Leclaire when they were on CBJ and Hitchcock was there? Well.. Hitchcock left, and both of them suck now. He went up to St. Louis. Surprise. Elliot and Halak are godly duo. But wait.. Halak was good in Montreal too on that playoff run.. but remember what Montreal did? They collapsed like frack and tried to block every shot ever that run.

Remember the first year Luongo was here? Canucks collapsed and played like the trap, but we couldn't score for crap.. but what happened? Luongo was nominated for the vezina and the HART TROPHY. Something which a lot of people thought he should've won.

(I still remember the first time Luongo went down with that injury for like a quarter of a season and people thought Sanford and Schneider would be fine.. then we went like .250 hockey the whole time. Lol.)

This is all highlighted and magnified by the simple fact that Canucks have a crapty playoff offense and we end up having to play all the teams that grind it out and battle in front.. battles that we generally lose.

I don't think it matters personally if we keep Schneider or Luongo, they haven't been the problem. I'm not holding my breathe for this season on top of that, because we don't have Kesler and he won't be healthy, and Edler is coming off back surgery and Garrison is a question mark who has to gel with the system. We are prepped for a pretty awful start offensively and defensively.


Fully agree with this post. Good job.
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#146 King of the ES

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:06 PM

I'm a firm believer in building thru the draft and not mortgaging the future to make the playoffs. So you don't have to convince me it would be foolish to overpay. But BB is in a position where he may have to. Other wise he'll be out of a job.


I wouldn't be so sure that he'd be out of a job over not landing Roberto Luongo. Who would they replace him with? BB is a tenured GM that has won a Cup and is as well-respected as any other GM in the league.

And again, it's very reasonable for them to at least be willing to give James Reimer another shot. He was excellent for them in 2011.

It`s upto MG to take advantage of BB`s situation. If he does, good, if not, like you said Luongo is on his way out anyways. This is where GM`s earn their paychecks. BB has done enough over the years to piss off MG, Sedin tampering, leaking Bieksa, Burrows trade rumor etc. If I`m MG I would try to take BB to the cleaners. He`s ripe for the picking.


I don't know how Gillis is in any position to take advantage of anyone's situation. Me saying "Luongo is on his way out" includes the possibility of waivers. I just don't think that there are an abundance of buyers.
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#147 The Bookie

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:09 PM

To Toronto:

Frattin, Bozak, 1st, and throw in the rights to Franson for depth.


I endorse this rape-age. But I think it would be either Frattin or the 1st, not both. Still would be happy though.
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#148 oldnews

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:15 PM

Burkie did not get his Luongo clause in the new CBA lol.
Instead, the Canucks got a favourable deal - two cap-free buyouts, a better than speculated salary cap - and a shortened race to the fiinish with little room for suspect goaltending.
The price for Luongo certainly didn't drop.
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#149 oldnews

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:22 PM

I endorse this rape-age. But I think it would be either Frattin or the 1st, not both. Still would be happy though.


The Laffs can keep Franson's rights then.
Bozak is potentially a rental - so I'd be less willing to move on the 1st or Frattin.
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#150 WHL rocks

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:25 PM

I wouldn't be so sure that he'd be out of a job over not landing Roberto Luongo. Who would they replace him with? BB is a tenured GM that has won a Cup and is as well-respected as any other GM in the league.

And again, it's very reasonable for them to at least be willing to give James Reimer another shot. He was excellent for them in 2011.
I don't know how Gillis is in any position to take advantage of anyone's situation. Me saying "Luongo is on his way out" includes the possibility of waivers. I just don't think that there are an abundance of buyers.

No body said BB will lose his job if he didn't get Luongo?

Why on earth would MG put Luongo on waivers? When was the last time a top 5 goalie in the world was put on waivers?

If there is no market, Luongo will remain a Canuck until there is a market. Or if it makes more sense MG could trade Schneider. There is no reason for MG to rush this situation, and he won't.
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