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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 4.0


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#1531 Millerdraft

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 10:52 AM

Holmgren: Hey bud I realized I messed up with the Bryzgalov signing so I'm here to buy him out with your money.

Owner: Get the $&@& out of my office.


It's common knowledge that Ed Snider was the one yelling at Holmgren to sign Bryzgalov at any cost and Holmgren actually wanted nothing to do with the sieve but finally acquiesced to his boss' wishes.

If anything it's gotta be Ed Snider telling Holmgren that his demand of Bryzgalov was his own fault and he'd fix it by buying him out. What's $23m spread over 14 years, $1.65m per? That's peanuts to a guy like Snider especially if he knows it was his mistake after his entire management team advised him against the move prior.
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#1532 sampy

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 10:56 AM

Question: is the "Luongo clause" officially in the new CBA? I've heard talk that if Luongo is traded and retires early then both Vancouver and the other team split the cap hit.

If this is true there are going to be a lot of surprised/angry people on CDC when they see how little Vancouver gets for Luongo.

Edit: by "I've heard talk" I meant from various radio shows (Bob McCown, etc).


And new to the party.....

IMO Florida isn't going to give up value. Philly would be an ideal choice for a centre. If it's with TO, Gardiner or Rielly needs to be the target. Don't need Bozak, Kadri or any other secondary Leaf plugs. Canucks have an abundance of secondary forwards. Bozak wouldn't bring much more to the centre position than Higgins. If TO doesn't want to give value send Lu home to Florida.
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#1533 sampy

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 11:01 AM

It's common knowledge that Ed Snider was the one yelling at Holmgren to sign Bryzgalov at any cost and Holmgren actually wanted nothing to do with the sieve but finally acquiesced to his boss' wishes.

If anything it's gotta be Ed Snider telling Holmgren that his demand of Bryzgalov was his own fault and he'd fix it by buying him out. What's $23m spread over 14 years, $1.65m per? That's peanuts to a guy like Snider especially if he knows it was his mistake after his entire management team advised him against the move prior.


I agree. A Bryz buyout is expensive but it isn't that bad for a team that was runnin an $80mil cap 10 years ago. Add in a playoff round or 2 would cover the costs. Bryz is brutal and the fact he is a headcase and has one of those contracts that gets penalized makes it more and more obvious that a buyout is highly possible.

Philly with Couturier and Bryz is significantly weaker than Philly with Lu and no Couturier
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#1534 apollo

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 11:21 AM

I agree. A Bryz buyout is expensive but it isn't that bad for a team that was runnin an $80mil cap 10 years ago. Add in a playoff round or 2 would cover the costs. Bryz is brutal and the fact he is a headcase and has one of those contracts that gets penalized makes it more and more obvious that a buyout is highly possible.

Philly with Couturier and Bryz is significantly weaker than Philly with Lu and no Couturier


Philly should do everything in their power to get Lu... just look what happened in the Pittsburgh series. Lu makes Crosby look awful anytime they have faced. Philly with Lu can definitely win a cup.

Hope they give us something good. I'm sure if we give Lu ten games his value will raise and Philly will so anything to get him.
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#1535 WiDeN

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 11:31 AM

Yeah, I don't see why we need a center.

Ebbett, Schroeder, Lapierre, Higgins, Malholtra should be able to hold down the job until Kesler comes back.

Sedin Sedin Kassian <---It has been rumored that they will try this (Hopefully for more than 2 games)
Booth Higgins Raymond <---Without a great faceoff guy this line would have more offensive zone starts
Hansen Schroeder Burrows <---Hansen and Burrows are perfect 2 way guys to shelter and teach Schroeder
Lapierre Malholtra Weise <---I have high hopes that Malholtra could return to awesomeness after a long break
Ebbett, Volpatti
Obviously the lines can be shuffled in all sorts of configurations, but I would like to see Hansen and Burrows flanking Schroeder, because they are of the same mold that we are hoping to cast Schroeder from.
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#1536 suolucidir

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 11:55 AM

Yeah, I don't see why we need a center.

Ebbett, Schroeder, Lapierre, Higgins, Malholtra should be able to hold down the job until Kesler comes back.

Sedin Sedin Kassian <---It has been rumored that they will try this (Hopefully for more than 2 games)
Booth Higgins Raymond <---Without a great faceoff guy this line would have more offensive zone starts
Hansen Schroeder Burrows <---Hansen and Burrows are perfect 2 way guys to shelter and teach Schroeder
Lapierre Malholtra Weise <---I have high hopes that Malholtra could return to awesomeness after a long break
Ebbett, Volpatti
Obviously the lines can be shuffled in all sorts of configurations, but I would like to see Hansen and Burrows flanking Schroeder, because they are of the same mold that we are hoping to cast Schroeder from.

Keep in mind that we haven't seen the Kesler which dominated the Preds since... well since he dominated the Preds. Considering he's coming off of another serious injury I have some strong doubts that he'll be able to elevate our second line to the level we need to contend for a cup. If the stars align and both Kes and Manny can recover their peak form, then sure... we have all we need already. Some added insurance would be good to have, though.
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It bugs me when people pull out the gold medal for an example... Luongo only had to outplay Brodeur.


#1537 WHL rocks

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:04 PM

Wouldn't happen - he plays in the WHL.


haha lol
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#1538 oldnews

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:06 PM

Right, so because Philly has a lot of young players, they thus shouldn't care about trading Sean Couturier?

Is Nick Jensen expendable to us, since we have Anton Rodin?


You're on a roll King. Your parapharasing skills are impeccable.


I would far rather have Bozak than Goc. Goc is a floater. Wouldn't go over well in Vancouver. Weiss should be the guy that we're going after in a deal with Florida - immediate second-line help. Not a huge fan of his game, but no doubt that he would help.


King, you almost started making sense when you referred to Bozak as a better option than Kadri - but then you had to go and run down Lapierre, and here you are referring to Goc as a "floater"? You should reserve such comments until you have any clue whatsoever about the player you're talking about. A floater who is used as a defensive zone start center and still has a strong positive relative corsi lol. An actual floater would be the player whose tires you've been pumping because of OHL accollades, when the NHL evidence was patently obvious to all who paid attention.
On top of that, you're the guy who preaches about considering the other team's needs, and you're proposing Weiss - their veteran top line center. The Canucks in your opinion could never land a prospect like Bjugstad, and yet here you are wanting their #1 center, (who, by the way, will be sporting a cap hit of over 5 million.)
I don't think you should be calling anyone else's posts ridiculous King - and btw, you missed a piece in my 'ridiculous' proposal.

I like your Philly deal more than the Florida option. I suspect that MG is talking to more than just TO, Philly and Florida.

I simply don't see what the Laffers have to offer that Van can use. The Kadri coolaid gang is so laughable that even the HC boys are sayin wait a minute. Consensus seems to be that Kadri will struggle to ever be a NHL regular. SO SN and TSN really want Lu in To because it means possible playoffs for them. The really sad fact is that TO franchises suck in every league NHL, NBA and MLB. The Laffers should have been blown up 4 years ago when Burkie came in but the Board said no to that.

I still think there are some dark horses out there talking to Gillis.


There's a lot of Laffs coolaid getting drunk around here. Kadri as the centerpiece in proposals lol - young Leafs blueliners that are defensive liabilities that we could never get for mere Luongo - even suggestions that guys like Connolly or Komisarek could be of use on the Canucks roster - I could just imagine CDC after a month of those results - the only positive would be the absolute focus on complaining about them, while Ballard and Raymond finally get to fly under the whiner radar.

I'd guess that the Isles could be a dark horse.
Especially if the Canucks were willing to take Dipietro off their hands - it would be extremely difficult for Snow not to jump at that opportunity, particularly with Nabokov's UFA status - he could trim in half from two 'starters' to one.
The Isles are also desperate for a veteran blueliner they can't really afford as things are - and to create a splash in their market.
They'd have to pay a big price, but I think it could make sense for Vancouver as well - The Isles have a whole lot of young talent at center, a good deal of young talent on their blueline in their system, and a great big speed bump in the way of the next level. The Canucks could really open the window for a long time with a few more young pieces.
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#1539 Raoul Duke

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:12 PM

Luongo missing from practice just minutes ago?? Hmmmmm.....
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#1540 oldnews

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:23 PM

Should just lock the news thread. It was a great idea, but people around here either can't read big glaring road signs or think their opinions are news lol.
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#1541 DeNiro

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:25 PM

OMG Luongo's not on the ice?

That must mean he's traded....
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#1542 Jambo

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:25 PM

Given how relaxed he seemed yesterday it really wouldn't surprise me if he was fully aware some kind of deal was already in place. I don't think we'll be seeing him around here for long.
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#1543 oldnews

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:28 PM

Franson has decided to re-sign with the Laffs after having committed to playing the full season in the SEL. They must have moved a/the defenseman haha.

Edited by oldnews, 12 January 2013 - 12:31 PM.

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#1544 sampy

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:29 PM

Perhaps bringing Lu to Van was just negotiation tactic. Gardiner or Rielly please.
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#1545 Bingo Chili

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:33 PM

Couturier :frantic:
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#1546 King of the ES

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:34 PM

If anything it's gotta be Ed Snider telling Holmgren that his demand of Bryzgalov was his own fault and he'd fix it by buying him out. What's $23m spread over 14 years, $1.65m per? That's peanuts to a guy like Snider especially if he knows it was his mistake after his entire management team advised him against the move prior.


Very wealthy people are often the cheapest people on the planet - part of why they're very wealthy to begin with.

Think about it - what compelling reason would Ed Snider have to buy out Bryzgalov? When you compound the direct financial loss of the buyout with the fact that other assets would need to be parted with to land Luongo in the form of players, it's a terrible deal for Philadelphia. Is there a guarantee that Luongo would have any more success? Of course not. Look at their numbers - nearly identical, and Luongo's both older and more expensive (total contract value).
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#1547 King of the ES

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:35 PM

Philly should do everything in their power to get Lu... just look what happened in the Pittsburgh series.


And don't look what happened in Boston or Chicago.
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#1548 sampy

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:41 PM

And don't look what happened in Boston or Chicago.


Do you think Canucks team offense vs Boston is comparable to Philly's last year?
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#1549 King of the ES

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:45 PM

King, you almost started making sense when you referred to Bozak as a better option than Kadri - but then you had to go and run down Lapierre, and here you are referring to Goc as a "floater"? You should reserve such comments until you have any clue whatsoever about the player you're talking about. A floater who is used as a defensive zone start center and still has a strong positive relative corsi lol. An actual floater would be the player whose tires you've been pumping because of OHL accollades, when the NHL evidence was patently obvious to all who paid attention.
On top of that, you're the guy who preaches about considering the other team's needs, and you're proposing Weiss - their veteran top line center. The Canucks in your opinion could never land a prospect like Bjugstad, and yet here you are wanting their #1 center, (who, by the way, will be sporting a cap hit of over 5 million.)
I don't think you should be calling anyone else's posts ridiculous King - and btw, you missed a piece in my 'ridiculous' proposal.


Oh no, I "ran down" Lapierre. Were your feelings hurt? He is a Canuck, after all. Fact is that he takes a lot of stupid penalties, which means that his ice-time needs to be limited.

And you're now calling Hodgson a floater? :lol: OK. Did his "Hardest Working Player" award, as voted by the OHL coaches, tell you that one? With Goc, fact is that he was a 20th overall pick that really hasn't ever amounted to anything. He's basically just a body - kinda like what Sami Pahlsson was, who you inexplicably think had such an effective run as a Canuck, so I guess it's not surprising that you're interested. Bring up all the obscure, meaningless stats that you can to try and validate your claim, fact is that Marcel Goc would not have a material impact on this team. Can I make a guess and assume that you were also in favor of the Marco Sturm signing, when it happened? How was his CORSI score?

As for Weiss, sure, he's their top C, but it's also widely known that negotiations aren't going well between the two. To make sure that another Bouwmeester doesn't happen, I wouldn't be surprised to see him moved. The chance of Weiss being a Panther for the 2013-14 season, anyway, and beyond, is probably low, so it becomes logical for them to trade him. And besides, they've got the great Nick Bjugstad in their system, so who the heck needs Stephen Weiss?

:bigblush:
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#1550 oldnews

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:45 PM

Me too. It's almost like he's getting a second wind in his career. His Twitter account is incredible, and the gimmick of him not admitting that it's him works. Completely different person than what he was when he first got here.

Wouldn't that be something if he were to get traded, get a Vezina, and/or a Cup. Wow. Would be pretty awesome.


One minute you are referring to the "great" move Nonis would be making in acquring Luongo to start his tenure with the Leafs...and the possibility he could still win a Vezina and Cup....


Very wealthy people are often the cheapest people on the planet - part of why they're very wealthy to begin with.

Think about it - what compelling reason would Ed Snider have to buy out Bryzgalov? When you compound the direct financial loss of the buyout with the fact that other assets would need to be parted with to land Luongo in the form of players, it's a terrible deal for Philadelphia. Is there a guarantee that Luongo would have any more success? Of course not. Look at their numbers - nearly identical, and Luongo's both older and more expensive (total contract value).


The next you are speaking for Snider - and referring to Luongo as an old, expensive goalie and a terrible deal for Philly - assuming Bryzgalov is unmoveable and not worth buying out.

Just stop King. Your flip flopping is renowned. One consistency - you know better than all other posters, whichever side of the debate you decide to land on at any given moment.
Try taking a position.
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#1551 King of the ES

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:48 PM

Do you think Canucks team offense vs Boston is comparable to Philly's last year?


Vancouver had the #1 offense in the league in 2010-11, Philly's was #2 in 2011-12.

So, yes, comparable.
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#1552 oldnews

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:53 PM

Oh no, I "ran down" Lapierre. Were your feelings hurt? He is a Canuck, after all. Fact is that he takes a lot of stupid penalties, which means that his ice-time needs to be limited.

And you're now calling Hodgson a floater? :lol: OK. Did his "Hardest Working Player" award, as voted by the OHL coaches, tell you that one? With Goc, fact is that he was a 20th overall pick that really hasn't ever amounted to anything. He's basically just a body - kinda like what Sami Pahlsson was, who you inexplicably think had such an effective run as a Canuck, so I guess it's not surprising that you're interested. Bring up all the obscure, meaningless stats that you can to try and validate your claim, fact is that Marcel Goc would not have a material impact on this team. Can I make a guess and assume that you were also in favor of the Marco Sturm signing, when it happened? How was his CORSI score?

As for Weiss, sure, he's their top C, but it's also widely known that negotiations aren't going well between the two. To make sure that another Bouwmeester doesn't happen, I wouldn't be surprised to see him moved. The chance of Weiss being a Panther for the 2013-14 season, anyway, and beyond, is probably low, so it becomes logical for them to trade him. And besides, they've got the great Nick Bjugstad in their system, so who the heck needs Stephen Weiss?

:bigblush:


King don't flatter yourself - nothing you say could hurt my feelings.
Lapierre is a steal at one milion, he does a lot of things well, and his penalty minutes aren't the result of stupid, undisciplined play - he drops the gloves and plays a very aggressive game - penalty minutes happen for guys like that. He's actually an ideal fourth line guy who gives us a second center on that line to take draws when his center is waived out. Lapierre is an excellent fit here - your assessment is simpletonian.
Again - your opinion that Goc is a floater is uninformed - borderline ridiculous. You know nothing about the player.

Keep pumping Hodgson's defensive prowess - it's adding oodles of legitiimacy to your authoritative posting.

Lastly - have you heard about something called the CBA? Adding another 5 million dollar center is a great idea King. You should land a job as Gilman's apprentice capologist.
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#1553 King of the ES

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:56 PM

One minute you are referring to the "great" move Nonis would be making in acquring Luongo to start his tenure with the Leafs...and the possibility he could still win a Vezina and Cup....

The next you are speaking for Snider - and referring to Luongo as an old, expensive goalie and a terrible deal for Philly - assuming Bryzgalov is unmoveable and not worth buying out.

Just stop King. Your flip flopping is renowned. One consistency - you know better than all other posters, whichever side of the debate you decide to land on at any given moment.
Try taking a position.


I've had a very firm position this whole time - you pretty clearly just have difficulties comprehending it.

It's actually quite simple; the Canucks should've traded Schneider while his value was sky-high, ideally after the 2010-11 Cup run. We could've gotten back something of great value from a whole lot of teams - Schneider has no NTC.

Since Gillis made the wrong move by doing nothing, we've been backed into a position where we're being forced to move Roberto Luongo. Two negatives there:
  • Being "forced" to sell something immediately reduces your bargaining position
  • Lots of constraints around Luongo: NTC, old, expensive, signed until 2022.
All of these things reduce our bargaining position. Have I ever said that Luongo's not any good? NO! My entire issue with this thing is that Gillis got too greedy with his two goaltenders, and we're now selling a good asset in Luongo with very little leverage in a weak market. Schneider would've gotten us a lot more in return and it's debatable as to who the better goaltender is, at this point.

Understand yet? Or do you need pictures/diagrams?
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#1554 Tangerines

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:59 PM

One minute you are referring to the "great" move Nonis would be making in acquring Luongo to start his tenure with the Leafs...and the possibility he could still win a Vezina and Cup....




The next you are speaking for Snider - and referring to Luongo as an old, expensive goalie and a terrible deal for Philly - assuming Bryzgalov is unmoveable and not worth buying out.

Just stop King. Your flip flopping is renowned. One consistency - you know better than all other posters, whichever side of the debate you decide to land on at any given moment.
Try taking a position.


Hey oldnews I'm with u and you can mark my words on this one. As long as the flyers have Bryzgalov as their starting goalie they will never win a cup. Lu definitely gives them a better chance in that department.
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#1555 oldnews

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:00 PM

I've had a very firm position this whole time - you pretty clearly just have difficulties comprehending it.

It's actually quite simple; the Canucks should've traded Schneider while his value was sky-high, ideally after the 2010-11 Cup run. We could've gotten back something of great value from a whole lot of teams - Schneider has no NTC.

Since Gillis made the wrong move by doing nothing, we've been backed into a position where we're being forced to move Roberto Luongo. Two negatives there:

  • Being "forced" to sell something immediately reduces your bargaining position
  • Lots of constraints around Luongo: NTC, old, expensive, signed until 2022.
All of these things reduce our bargaining position. Have I ever said that Luongo's not any good? NO! My entire issue with this thing is that Gillis got too greedy with his two goaltenders, and we're now selling a good asset in Luongo with very little leverage in a weak market. Schneider would've gotten us a lot more in return and it's debatable as to who the better goaltender is, at this point.

Understand yet? Or do you need pictures/diagrams?


The bolded part is where your little story falls to pieces. You clearly haven't glimmered a clue about the reality of scarcity at the position of NHL starting goaltending despite hundreds and hundreds of pages of Luongo threads.
Please draw me that picture King. I'll pass you the crayons.

Edited by oldnews, 12 January 2013 - 01:00 PM.

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#1556 sampy

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:04 PM

Vancouver had the #1 offense in the league in 2010-11, Philly's was #2 in 2011-12.

So, yes, comparable.


I (and you) are not talking about regular season. Talking about the playoffs series where the Canucks were decimated setting a record for fewest goals scored and the Flyers were setting scoring records for a series.
So No not even close.
Next...
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#1557 King of the ES

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:06 PM

Lapierre is a steal at one milion, he does a lot of things well, and his penalty minutes aren't the result of stupid, undisciplined play - he drops the gloves and plays a very aggressive game - penalty minutes happen for guys like that. He's actually an ideal fourth line guy who gives us a second center on that line to take draws when his center is waived out. Lapierre is an excellent fit here - your assessment is simpletonian.


Keep spinning. I actually like Lapierre. I agree that he's very good as a 4th line player. Never did I say that he wasn't, never did I say that he's not a fit here.

Again, spin away.

Lastly - have you heard about something called the CBA? Adding another 5 million dollar center is a great idea King. You should land a job as Gilman's apprentice capologist.


That's interesting - when I look at Weiss' cap hit, I see $3.1M, not $5.0M. Imagine that.
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#1558 oldnews

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:07 PM

Hey oldnews I'm with u and you can mark my words on this one. As long as the flyers have Bryzgalov as their starting goalie they will never win a cup. Lu definitely gives them a better chance in that department.


I think there is literally zero chance that Holmgren doesn't spend every waking hour looking for the best way to rid himself of Bryzgalov and upgrade their chances of winning playoff hockey games. The only way they do that consistently with Bryzgalov is to light up opposition goaltenders for 7 or 8 goals every game. Not going to happen in playoff hockey - and it would be a shame to have a lineup like Philly has and continue to dream that it's a possibility. I think he unloads Bryzgalov at his first opportunity and doesn't waste a minute in the process.
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#1559 smurf47

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:09 PM

I've had a very firm position this whole time - you pretty clearly just have difficulties comprehending it.

It's actually quite simple; the Canucks should've traded Schneider while his value was sky-high, ideally after the 2010-11 Cup run. We could've gotten back something of great value from a whole lot of teams - Schneider has no NTC.

Since Gillis made the wrong move by doing nothing, we've been backed into a position where we're being forced to move Roberto Luongo. Two negatives there:

  • Being "forced" to sell something immediately reduces your bargaining position
  • Lots of constraints around Luongo: NTC, old, expensive, signed until 2022.
All of these things reduce our bargaining position. Have I ever said that Luongo's not any good? NO! My entire issue with this thing is that Gillis got too greedy with his two goaltenders, and we're now selling a good asset in Luongo with very little leverage in a weak market. Schneider would've gotten us a lot more in return and it's debatable as to who the better goaltender is, at this point.

Understand yet? Or do you need pictures/diagrams?


and you still hang on to your position that Schneider should have been traded even though better hockey minds than yours have decided otherwise. Its not even an opinion you offer but a flatout should have. Luongo has had his chances, underperformed in the playoffs and the Canucks will give Cory the reins in hopes of improving their goaltending when it matters most, in the playoffs. Again, you even tell us that Gillis has erred when the final card has yet to be dealt in order to finish the hand. Wait and see, let the process complete before you spout off. You seem to think you know it all, in every topic.!
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#1560 oldnews

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:12 PM

Keep spinning. I actually like Lapierre. I agree that he's very good as a 4th line player. Never did I say that he wasn't, never did I say that he's not a fit here.

Again, spin away.



That's interesting - when I look at Weiss' cap hit, I see $3.1M, not $5.0M. Imagine that.


Is that right King. What do you see when you look at Weiss' cap hit for next season (the one where the cap drops to 64 million)? Do you see the 60 point center signing for 3.1?
You'll need your healthy imagination.
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