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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 4.0


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#1561 King of the ES

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:14 PM

The bolded part is where your little story falls to pieces. You clearly haven't glimmered a clue about the reality of scarcity at the position of NHL starting goaltending despite hundreds and hundreds of pages of Luongo threads.


"Hundreds and hundreds of pages of Luongo threads"...on Canucks.com. Go to the Leafs' site and take a gander at what they're suggesting. I'll give you a hint: it's a lot less than something along the likes of Sean Couturier, Braydon Coburn, and Wayne Simmonds, which was your brilliant and unbiased proposal.

Of course Canucks.com is going to largely think that there's going to be a bidding war for Luongo. Teams are going to be begging Gillis to accept their bounty of elite prospects, young impact players, and high draft picks. Right?

Here's a question: Toronto offered Luke Schenn in the summer. There are now proposals all over this site suggesting "Kadri, Gardiner, and a 2nd, or bust", which is clearly a better haul than Luke Schenn by himself. What exactly has caused Luongo's value to grow so much since the off-season, that would give any sort of credibility to an offer like that? Is it because he's funny on Twitter? Honestly - what is it?

The scarcity that you refer to is false. Where is the scarcity? As has been demonstrated in the past, there are 5 - 7 teams in the NHL who might have a realistic interest in a guy like Luongo - teams who aren't already heavily invested in other goalies. That list includes a couple of destinations that Luongo almost surely wouldn't agree to be traded to. That's scarcity?
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#1562 King of the ES

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:16 PM

I (and you) are not talking about regular season. Talking about the playoffs series where the Canucks were decimated setting a record for fewest goals scored and the Flyers were setting scoring records for a series.
So No not even close.
Next...


Never a shortage of excuses in Vancouver, is there?
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#1563 King of the ES

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:20 PM

Is that right King. What do you see when you look at Weiss' cap hit for next season (the one where the cap drops to 64 million)? Do you see the 60 point center signing for 3.1?
You'll need your healthy imagination.


Who cares about next season?

Millions of things could be done to accommodate Weiss' signing. Malhotra's as good as gone. Raymond's gone if he doesn't perform. Edler might be gone. Ballard or Booth could be bought out. Tons of different possibilities. If Weiss came here and performed, and if it was a good fit, it would probably not be very difficult at all to extend him.
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#1564 Rusty_Element

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:21 PM

Can't wait for this Contract to get signed so we can all stop holding our breath and finally see what all the GM's have been working on. Anyone think this is gonna be as fun as Trade Deadline day?
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#1565 Rusty_Element

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:22 PM

More bickering on here than my Wife and I.. Haha.. Seems CDC should hire our own mediator!
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#1566 TmanVan

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:32 PM

Very wealthy people are often the cheapest people on the planet - part of why they're very wealthy to begin with.

Think about it - what compelling reason would Ed Snider have to buy out Bryzgalov? When you compound the direct financial loss of the buyout with the fact that other assets would need to be parted with to land Luongo in the form of players, it's a terrible deal for Philadelphia. Is there a guarantee that Luongo would have any more success? Of course not. Look at their numbers - nearly identical, and Luongo's both older and more expensive (total contract value).


Shea Weber offer sheet says you don't know what your talking about. I swear your logic is purposely "off" just to get people going.
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#1567 oldnews

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:45 PM

"Hundreds and hundreds of pages of Luongo threads"...on Canucks.com. Go to the Leafs' site and take a gander at what they're suggesting. I'll give you a hint: it's a lot less than something along the likes of Sean Couturier, Braydon Coburn, and Wayne Simmonds, which was your brilliant and unbiased proposal.

Here's a question: Toronto offered Luke Schenn in the summer. There are now proposals all over this site suggesting "Kadri, Gardiner, and a 2nd, or bust", which is clearly a better haul than Luke Schenn by himself. What exactly has caused Luongo's value to grow so much since the off-season, that would give any sort of credibility to an offer like that? Is it because he's funny on Twitter? Honestly - what is it?

The scarcity that you refer to is false. Where is the scarcity? As has been demonstrated in the past, there are 5 - 7 teams in the NHL who might have a realistic interest in a guy like Luongo - teams who aren't already heavily invested in other goalies. That list includes a couple of destinations that Luongo almost surely wouldn't agree to be traded to. That's scarcity?




Good question KIng. His value hasn't actually grown. The ridiculous devaluations are shrinking away - that's all.


Why exclude only one piece of my proposal when you can exclude two pieces?
Which player, Couturier, Simmonds or Coburn has greater value than Luongo? None of them. Luongo is worth more than any of them.
I saw the deals Holmgren cut last year. If he wants a proven top 20 goaltender, I sure as hell don't let the guy off easy.
The invisible pieces - Schroeder and Ballard -are better than the whiners on this site would suggest.
Philly upgrades dramatically in goal in exchange for their 4th RW (Giroux, Briere, Vorachek, Simmonds, Read) - the additional price they pay is the difference between Schroeder/Couturier and Ballard/Coburn.
That deal is actually far less lopsided than the ones Holmgren cut with Columbus and LA.
What you or your peeps on Laffs.com think doesn't concern me much.
They can have Bryz for Bozak or Kadri (or Franson and a 2nd) or whatever lowball they offer for Luongo.
Philly recovers a center to add to the Giroux, Schenn, Talbot, Rinaldo, Schroeder, Holmstrom mix.
King flames on.

Interesting thing though - King's consistency revolves around this - Luongo to Philly, no way, Luongo to Florida no way, Ljuongo anywhere not called Toronto, no way...
I'm sensing there's a paper bag behind the screen dying to finally come out from under the recycled pulp.

Edited by oldnews, 12 January 2013 - 01:55 PM.

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#1568 WHL rocks

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:45 PM

IF the Canucks don't have a deal done for Luongo over the next couple of days...

MG should hold a news conference and announce to the media that....

1. NO CANUCKS PLAYERS including Lu would talk about a possible trade or the goalie situation
2. If a media member asks a question re Luongo trade the player asked the question will not answer it
3. Only updates provided will be by Mgmt.

Luongo should also tell reprorters that he will no longer talk about possible trade scenarios etc...

This will stop much of the "controversy" and "DISTRACTIONS". This way the players can concentrated on a short season which affords little time for distractions.
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#1569 thad

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:52 PM

Shea Weber offer sheet says you don't know what your talking about. I swear your logic is purposely "off" just to get people going.


I have to agree with king on bryz. Trying to get arguably the best defenseman in the league is a little different than cutting a guy 30 million because you think you made a colossal mistake 1 year into his 9yr contract... I'm sure they would rather have luongo but at the price of 30 million and the assets to trade for him, no way.

Not a chance they buy him out.
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#1570 King of the ES

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:57 PM

Shea Weber offer sheet says you don't know what your talking about. I swear your logic is purposely "off" just to get people going.


That's making an investment, not writing off one.

See the difference?
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#1571 oldnews

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 02:02 PM

I have to agree with king on bryz. Trying to get arguably the best defenseman in the league is a little different than cutting a guy 30 million because you think you made a colossal mistake 1 year into his 9yr contract... I'm sure they would rather have luongo but at the price of 30 million and the assets to trade for him, no way.

Not a chance they buy him out.


I think Elvis could be on to something. Bryz gets shipped to long Island for Dipietro and a quality young player.
Philly cuts their buyout payment significantly, and gets a player to compensate - one of the Isles centers - they have Tavares, Bailey, Neilsen, Strome, Nelson... perhaps a strong, talented two way guy like Nelson to lessen the pain of moving Couturier. Philly then still looks pretty damn good and deep up the middle.
Long Island gets an upgrade over Dipietro, a serviceable NHL goaltender who isn't going to require that they add yet another starter on top of Dipietro's salary. Not ideal, but better than what they are rolling with.

Edited by oldnews, 12 January 2013 - 02:06 PM.

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#1572 King of the ES

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 02:04 PM

Why exclude only one piece of my proposal when you can exclude two pieces?
Which player, Couturier, Simmonds or Coburn has greater value than Luongo? None of them. Luongo is worth more than any of them.


You are blind. In terms of 1-for-1, at current states of careers and with active currently contracts, I bet Luongo's chosen after all 3 of those guys by most GMs.

I saw the deals Holmgren cut last year. If he wants a proven top 20 goaltender, I sure as hell don't let the guy off easy.


He has one already! Bryz not top 20?

Philly upgrades dramatically in goal in exchange for their 4th RW (Giroux, Briere, Vorachek, Simmonds, Read) - the additional price they pay is the difference between Schroeder/Couturier and Ballard/Coburn.


Dramatic upgrade based on what? The fact that he's a Canuck? They have equal Vezina's, equal Stanley Cups. Career numbers are almost perfectly identical.

Where's the dramatic upgrade?

Interesting thing though - King's consistency revolves around this - Luongo to Philly, no way, Luongo to Florida no way, Ljuongo anywhere not called Toronto, no way...
I'm sensing there's a paper bag behind the screen dying to finally come out from under the recycled pulp.


Wrong again. For the past couple of days I've been saying that Florida is the most likely destination, IMO.
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#1573 King of the ES

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 02:07 PM

I think Elvis could be on to something. Bryz gets shipped to long Island for Dipietro and a quality young player.
Philly cuts their buyout payment significantly, and gets a player to compensate - one of the Isles centers - they have Tavares, Bailey, Neilsen, Strome, Nelson... perhaps a strong, talented two way guy like Nelson to lessen the pain of moving Couturier. Philly then still looks pretty damn good and deep up the middle.
Long Island gets an upgrade over Dipietro, a serviceable NHL goaltender who isn't going to require that they add yet another starter on top of Dipietro's salary. Not ideal, but better than what they are rolling with.


If something like this happens, sure, start the Lu to Philly rumors. Until then, though, there's probably absolutely nothing to it.
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#1574 oldnews

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 02:08 PM

Wrong again. For the past couple of days I've been saying that Florida is the most likely destination, IMO.


What's the return from Florida King?
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#1575 oldnews

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 02:09 PM

If something like this happens, sure, start the Lu to Philly rumors. Until then, though, there's probably absolutely nothing to it.


the rumours are already well under way King, without your go-ahead.

p.s. "probably absolutely" is pretty faulty logic King.

Edited by oldnews, 12 January 2013 - 02:12 PM.

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#1576 Kulikov

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 02:15 PM

Sign memo thing faster..


Edited by Kulikov, 12 January 2013 - 02:17 PM.

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#1577 sampy

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 02:33 PM

Here's a question: Toronto offered Luke Schenn in the summer. There are now proposals all over this site suggesting "Kadri, Gardiner, and a 2nd, or bust", which is clearly a better haul than Luke Schenn by himself. What exactly has caused Luongo's value to grow so much since the off-season, that would give any sort of credibility to an offer like that? Is it because he's funny on Twitter? Honestly - what is it?


Schenn was what Burke offered. It was not reported at the time who exactly Gillis wanted.
Now, Gillis is asking for Kadri and Gardiner and we don't know what Nonis is offering.
Gillis has always valued Lu as an elite player and is expecting a good return for him.
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#1578 Pears

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 02:34 PM

Gonna take a gamble and say Luongo gets traded on Monday. Idk why but Monday just feels like the day he'll be traded.
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#1579 Tanev

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 02:46 PM

I'm gonna say

Luongo, Schroeder

for

Biggs, Kadri, Franson
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#1580 King of the ES

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 02:47 PM

What's the return from Florida King?


Already discussed this - Stephen Weiss should be the target.
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#1581 TmanVan

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 02:47 PM

That's making an investment, not writing off one.

See the difference?


That's not the point, you said he was cheap, which he's not. That's all I was saying
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#1582 King of the ES

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 02:50 PM

That's not the point, you said he was cheap, which he's not. That's all I was saying


Actually, you were comparing two things which diametrically oppose eachother, but OK.
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#1583 oldnews

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 02:54 PM

You are blind. In terms of 1-for-1, at current states of careers and with active currently contracts, I bet Luongo's chosen after all 3 of those guys by most GMs.


Already discussed this - Stephen Weiss should be the target.


And Steven Weiss isn't worth as much as any of Simmonds, Couturier or Coburn lol.
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#1584 ccc44

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 02:54 PM

Schenn was what Burke offered. It was not reported at the time who exactly Gillis wanted.
Now, Gillis is asking for Kadri and Gardiner and we don't know what Nonis is offering.
Gillis has always valued Lu as an elite player and is expecting a good return for him.

Everybody knows Luongo is a elite player but his contract especially under new CBA rules changes his value .

If Luongo had a 3 yr deal worth 5-6 mil a yr then his value is high and other teams would be more then willing to give these great young players that everyone seems to think he could fetch in return

Having another team take on his contract and the flexability is going to be part of what we are getting in return for Luongo

Edited by ccc44, 12 January 2013 - 03:00 PM.

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#1585 Merci

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 02:55 PM

I'm gonna say

Luongo, Schroeder

for

Biggs, Kadri, Franson


MG would be fired immediately.
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#1586 Merci

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 03:00 PM

Couturier

Gardiner

Huberdeau

Mattias


One of those players is coming to Van or Luongo is not going to that team, it's that simple.

Kadri, Frattin, Franson, Biggs?

You want to trade a top 10 goaltender other teams are salivating for for bottom 6 players/people who have not even proven themselves in the NHL?

People are delusional and or retarded.

Luongo for Couturier straight up is arguably the fairest deal.

Philly won't lose from goaltending ever again, and Briere, Talbot, Giroux, and Matt Read make Couturier's absence unnoticeable.


People suggesting Kadri + Bozak for Luongo have no idea what they're talking about.
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#1587 King of the ES

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 03:05 PM

And Steven Weiss isn't worth as much as any of Simmonds, Couturier or Coburn lol.


Correct - since you don't know how to spell his name, I'll assume that you don't know much about him. The reality is that he's a UFA to-be, and due for a pretty big raise. He's also 2 years older than Coburn, 6 years older than Simmonds, and 9 years older than Couturier. Did you know that he had less goals than Wayne Simmonds last year, who's also a nasty piece of business to play against?
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#1588 Tangelos

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 03:15 PM

Lol Couturier, Simmonds and Coburn for Luongo? You sir mr. Oldnews have been watching way to much batman lately because that is bat$#*+ crazy. If we could get just Couturier for Luongo, I would take it and run.
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#1589 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 03:20 PM

Yeah Smashian, he is.

Bozak can score and he doesn't hurt the team taking stupid penalties. Far better than Lapierre in a 3rd line role.


Really? 30 and 20 Point season before being forced onto the top line (and only getting 40 points despite Kessel and Lupul being on a roll)

Lappeirre is bigger, probably a better skater if not the same, more physical, better defensive player, more reliabile defensively, stnads up for teammates (fights) and has chemistry with the Hansen and Higgins, his most likely linemates. And judging by Lappy's most recent vow to cut back, or cut off his talking, I wouldn't be too worried about undisciple penalties.

Would Bozak be a bad fit? of course not, I think he gets unfairly dumped on here, maybe he would be great on the third line, but is he a big upgrade on Lappierre? No, if we have to use Lappierre in that role we will be perfectly fine.

I would far rather have Bozak than Goc. Goc is a floater. Wouldn't go over well in Vancouver. Weiss should be the guy that we're going after in a deal with Florida - immediate second-line help. Not a huge fan of his game, but no doubt that he would help.


Goc isn't a floater, basicly a younger verison of Pahlsson with better upside, I would probably take him over Bozak myself. I do agree Weiss is the guy we should go for, I think it might work to.

A lot of Canuck fans prefer to deny reality and try to convince themselves that Cody doesn't have an extremely bright future in the NHL, to feel better about how last year's trade has turned out to date.

He is going to be awesome. I'm expecting a minimum of 30 points from him this year.


Your setting the bar pretty low, I think you along with some Canuck fans are still married to this thoery that he will just be this great superstar and catch up to Eberle, Pietrangelo and Tavares cause of his junior acomplishments, junior acomplishments really don't mean anything, notice in TSN top 50 Canadian WJ's of all time, alot or most of them never did anything significant in the NHL?

Hodgson IMO could easily get 50 Points next year, I will say 52, I don't think he will become a franchise 1st liner, I think he could be maybe a borderline 1st liner, which isn't all that bad, he has major detractors in his game that prevent him from getting to that top level. He was a great allround player at the OHL/Junior level, but that stuff doesn't always translate to the NHL level. I think you are forgetting that.

I'm gonna say

Luongo, Schroeder

for

Biggs, Kadri, Franson


That's not very good honestly

Couturier

Gardiner

Huberdeau

Mattias


One of those players is coming to Van or Luongo is not going to that team, it's that simple.

Kadri, Frattin, Franson, Biggs?

You want to trade a top 10 goaltender other teams are salivating for for bottom 6 players/people who have not even proven themselves in the NHL?

People are delusional and or retarded.

Luongo for Couturier straight up is arguably the fairest deal.


How do you put Mattias in the group with all those players who arguably have 1st line upside?

The only one of those 4 avaliable to us is Mattias and he is overrated.

I think you will be dissapointed and I consider myself a big Lu fan but there are circumstances that handcuff his value quite a bit.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 12 January 2013 - 03:24 PM.

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#1590 Tangelos

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 03:22 PM

At least King is the only one here who agrees that Weiss is the missing piece to our team. While Couturier, Gardiner, Schenn, Huberdeau would all be nice for the future, it's really just a pipe dream to believe that an aging on the decline goalie on a terrible contract can get us a future franchise player.
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