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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 4.0


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#2221 The-Impersonator

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:44 AM

Hey guys, I got this from Calgarypuck, it's very intresting...




I dont know why a Flame fan would make up a rumour that would benifit us, but apparently Luongo to Florida.

Bjugstad + Weiss for Luongo :emot-parrot:


Florida is still very well in the mix as is Philly.
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#2222 Fozzy

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:45 AM

Yes, because 20-game stretches with a .750 winning percentage almost never happen in Vancouver. No way is this team capable of .750...


...Except maybe last season, Jan. 10th through Feb. 26th, when the Canucks went 14-2-4, which works out to .800...

...Oh yeah, and Nov. 6th through Dec. 21st, when they even bettered that, going 16-3-1, which is .825...


But yeah, good luck with that!


That's gold ::D +1 for that
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#2223 elvis15

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 12:01 PM

Florida is still very well in the mix as is Philly.

I agree with Florida, but not so sure about Philly unless it gets to the offseason and they waive Bryz. That's a big stretch.

TO's Sportsnet Cox's view

http://m.thestar.com...ngo-any-day-cox
...

While I'd agree that Nonis may have less pressure with Burke already having been fired, I doubt that Burke was likely to cave to any pressure to being with. Despite that, the Leafs were interested, so I think they'll still be interested now. As always, the question is price.

Certainly, others have already made the point that for Toronto to keep looking to the future when they have the longest current playoff appearance drought is not a good move. At some point they'll have to mortgage a bit of their future for some success now. Bad moves in the past should prevent them from looking for a deal now, but it should prevent them from overpaying.

Man, would I have loved to be on the Bruins end of that Kessel trade. Burke really screwed up on his evaluation for that one, but once burned, twice shy.

Edited by elvis15, 16 January 2013 - 12:07 PM.

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#2224 Yotes

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 12:19 PM

luongo, raymond, sauve

for

kadri, finn, conolly 2nd
or
kadri, kulemin, mid grade prospect/mid round pick 3-4th rounder

i think kadri is a piece thats a must in the deal. id rather take more cap hit back in conolly if we could get finn. or take a bit less if we get kulemin

I dont want bozak, and i think toronto would be smart to try re sign him now before the season they could get him re upped for a reasonable price. say he posts 30+ points in 48 games, they willl pay alot more to re sign him or let him walk.Sign Bozak and you make kessel happy and he may re up come summer time, and might make Lupul sign aswell.
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#2225 Boudrias

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 12:23 PM

:lol:

I agree with Florida, but not so sure about Philly unless it gets to the offseason and they waive Bryz. That's a big stretch.


While I'd agree that Nonis may have less pressure with Burke already having been fired, I doubt that Burke was likely to cave to any pressure to being with. Despite that, the Leafs were interested, so I think they'll still be interested now. As always, the question is price.

Certainly, others have already made the point that for Toronto to keep looking to the future when they have the longest current playoff appearance drought is not a good move. At some point they'll have to mortgage a bit of their future for some success now. Bad moves in the past should prevent them from looking for a deal now, but it should prevent them from overpaying.

Man, would I have loved to be on the Bruins end of that Kessel trade. Burke really screwed up on his evaluation for that one, but once burned, twice shy.

I agree with Cox that the Laffers would be foolish to trade for Lu. They should have blown that team up when Burkie came in. The gambled with a rebuild and now stand no further ahead. I hope Nonis gives Van 5 1st rounders but the NHL would probably step in.
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#2226 sampy

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 12:25 PM

On HF Leaf fans were whining how poor Reimer looked during scrimmages. Just a couple opinions but worth a thought.
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#2227 Boudrias

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 12:27 PM

Geez didn't you hear. Kadri scored a hatty in the scrimmage! MG just has to get this guy no matter the cost. Giv'em Lu, Raymond and Ballard. Rumour is the Flamers are willing to give the Laffers Iggy for Nazzy. :)
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#2228 bd71

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 12:30 PM

Fair enough. I'm in Toronto, so unfortunately I get the Toronto perspective shoved at me even harder than the rest of the country. Nonis obviously looks through "let's make the Leafs better" glasses.

He knows Luongo would instantly make their team better, unless he had to overpay to get him. Toronto media; however, continue to repeat that IF they do us the favour of lifting Luongo off of our hands, that it better be essentially for free.

I think it's permeated the fanbase here to the point that Nonis' hands may be tied; if he gives up ANY real value, the trade will become the equivalent of Burke's Kessel deal.

Fair enough. I'm in Toronto, so unfortunately I get the Toronto perspective shoved at me even harder than the rest of the country. Nonis obviously looks through "let's make the Leafs better" glasses.

He knows Luongo would instantly make their team better, unless he had to overpay to get him. Toronto media; however, continue to repeat that IF they do us the favour of lifting Luongo off of our hands, that it better be essentially for free.

I think it's permeated the fanbase here to the point that Nonis' hands may be tied; if he gives up ANY real value, the trade will become the equivalent of Burke's Kessel deal.


I agree. I'm in Toronto as well and the fan base is tired of trading prospects and draft picks for the quick fix. I think Nonis is out of the Luongo sweepstakes unless Gillis gives him away. Cox is right on here. He's not saying that Luongo isn't worth anything. Just that the Leafs will likely only want him if they have to give up very little.
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#2229 elvis15

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 12:37 PM

Leafs fans are also tired of missing the playoffs. Just saying.
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#2230 D-Money

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 12:39 PM

I agree with Florida, but not so sure about Philly unless it gets to the offseason and they waive Bryz. That's a big stretch.


While I'd agree that Nonis may have less pressure with Burke already having been fired, I doubt that Burke was likely to cave to any pressure to being with. Despite that, the Leafs were interested, so I think they'll still be interested now. As always, the question is price.

Certainly, others have already made the point that for Toronto to keep looking to the future when they have the longest current playoff appearance drought is not a good move. At some point they'll have to mortgage a bit of their future for some success now. Bad moves in the past should prevent them from looking for a deal now, but it should prevent them from overpaying.

Man, would I have loved to be on the Bruins end of that Kessel trade. Burke really screwed up on his evaluation for that one, but once burned, twice shy.


Kessel has been great for them. If the Leafs had just been a bit better, or a team behind them won the draft lottery, it wouldn't have been so horrendous.

But as it turned out, there were two franchise-type players available that draft, and Leafs were terrible enough to let Boston get one of them. I doubt anybody thought they would be THAT bad.
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#2231 sampy

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 12:46 PM

Leafs fans are also tired of missing the playoffs. Just saying.


Add to the fact that Rogers would make rediculous money with the Leafs in the playoffs. No guarantees with prospects and high picks.
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#2232 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 01:53 PM

Add to the fact that Rogers would make rediculous money with the Leafs in the playoffs. No guarantees with prospects and high picks.



This is what Cox and his fellow Toronto-based sportswriters are forgetting.

The Leafs as they sit right now, are even money to miss the playoffs yet again. Ownership cannot have had that in mind, when they shelled out the cash to buy the team.

According to virtually every report during the Luongo to Toronto saga, the driving force behind the Leaf's interest was the desire to finally make the playoffs. Now Cox is of the opinion that there's no hurry....might as well start the rebuild, since it's supposed to be a good draft class. (One has to wonder why that couldn't have been accomplished by Burke,if that were truly the Leaf's goal)

I'd much rather keep Luongo than settle for players off the Toronto scrap heap...and I'm betting that Mike Gillis would too...
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#2233 WHL rocks

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 01:57 PM

Cox is an idiot. I consider his opinion at par with Pierre Mcguire's'.
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#2234 eretz canucks

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 01:58 PM

Florida is still very well in the mix as is Philly.

for the love of God I sure hope so
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#2235 King of the ES

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 02:16 PM

Cox is an idiot. I consider his opinion at par with Pierre Mcguire's'.


Interesting that anyone making unflattering comments about the Canucks is deemed an "idiot" (myself included).

Cox was well known to be very close with Burke - the only media guy liked by BB. So this could be a very real representation of what the Canucks were asking for from Toronto. And if they're not willing to give it, that should be a pretty good signal that I'm on the right track with my predictions.
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#2236 stawns

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 02:25 PM

Interesting that anyone making unflattering comments about the Canucks is deemed an "idiot" (myself included).

Cox was well known to be very close with Burke - the only media guy liked by BB. So this could be a very real representation of what the Canucks were asking for from Toronto. And if they're not willing to give it, that should be a pretty good signal that I'm on the right track with my predictions.


idiot, no
troll, yes

you offer some pretty well thought out, well presented arguments...........they just consist of the same tripe over and over
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#2237 DeNiro

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 02:28 PM

I would laugh if the Leafs all of a sudden try and do a 180 and tank this season, and then they end up making the playoffs.

If Nonis's plan is to get a top 3 pick, good luck. I still think there's much worse teams than the Leafs this season. They would have to tank hard to beat out those teams.
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#2238 The Bookie

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 02:33 PM

Doesn't the new lottery system go in to effect starting this year? Every non-playoff team has a shot at 1st pick?
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#2239 Dragonfruits

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 02:36 PM

pretty sure the new lottery starts this draft
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#2240 TmanVan

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 02:39 PM

Interesting that anyone making unflattering comments about the Canucks is deemed an "idiot" (myself included).

Cox was well known to be very close with Burke - the only media guy liked by BB. So this could be a very real representation of what the Canucks were asking for from Toronto. And if they're not willing to give it, that should be a pretty good signal that I'm on the right track with my predictions.


So let me get this straight, Burke was fired for not getting the leafs in the playoffs, but Cox thinks there's no pressure on Nonis now? So what, Nonis gets his own 5 years of excuses if why the leafs are not a playoff team, all while Leafs fans say its ok...... We don't enjoy the playoffs anyways! In his article he also says the leafs are better off drafting blue chip prospects rather than trading for Luongo... Sure, but its too bad they don't know how to draft. Lupul, Kessel, Phaneuf, Gardiner, MacArthur, vanriemsdyk were all traded for our signed, why stop the streak now?
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#2241 The Bookie

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 02:39 PM

ah, so that means the Leafs will probably just slip in to the playoffs, then get swept in the first round.
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#2242 D-Money

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 02:41 PM

Interesting that anyone making unflattering comments about the Canucks is deemed an "idiot" (myself included).

Cox was well known to be very close with Burke - the only media guy liked by BB. So this could be a very real representation of what the Canucks were asking for from Toronto. And if they're not willing to give it, that should be a pretty good signal that I'm on the right track with my predictions.


Of course BB likes him, which articles like that. "Whatever the team is currently doing is the best thing to do."

People seem to forget that the Leafs had at least some playoff success before the first lockout. The main reason? Goaltending. Joseph and then Belfour kept them relevant. They burned a top goaltender prospect to land Raycroft, and a 1st, 2nd, and 4th round pick on Toskala - all to try to land another goalie who could provide that again. The problem was those guys were unproven.

Now here is a perennial allstar goaltender, who has proven able to handle the pressure of a major Canadian market...and he's not worth anything of value? Really? That's either complete nonsense, or total, utter BS.
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#2243 DeNiro

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 02:45 PM

pretty sure the new lottery starts this draft


Yea which means the odds for getting the 1st overall go down if you're a bottom 3 team.
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#2244 sharnhayre

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:31 PM

All non-playoff teams have a shot at 1st overall in the draft
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#2245 King of the ES

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:47 PM

So let me get this straight, Burke was fired for not getting the leafs in the playoffs, but Cox thinks there's no pressure on Nonis now? So what, Nonis gets his own 5 years of excuses if why the leafs are not a playoff team, all while Leafs fans say its ok...... We don't enjoy the playoffs anyways! In his article he also says the leafs are better off drafting blue chip prospects rather than trading for Luongo... Sure, but its too bad they don't know how to draft. Lupul, Kessel, Phaneuf, Gardiner, MacArthur, vanriemsdyk were all traded for our signed, why stop the streak now?


Burke was fired because the new ownership didn't like him. It was a personal thing.

Cox raises a valid point. Does Luongo on TO make them a Cup contender, today, in your eyes? He might help get them to the playoffs, but then they'll probably just be 1st round fodder for a team like Boston. They're still not that good with Luongo. So perhaps they've made a decision to tank and see if they can somehow land a real franchise-type guy like Jones, MacKinnon, McDavid, etc. Don't discount that option. Nonis was given a new contract, so it's feasible.
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#2246 WHL rocks

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:05 PM

According to Bob McCowan and Neil Smith on Prime Time Sports talks heating up.

Price right now is Kadri and Gardiner.


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#2247 DeNiro

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:07 PM

I like how Gillis is sticking to his guns. Kadri and Gardiner is the asking price Nonis. It's not gonna change.

We don't want picks, we don't want Bozak, Frattin, or Komisarek.

If it comes down to it, and the best we can get is a pending UFA and a top prospect, I would much rather get it from another team.
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#2248 Rhinogator

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:07 PM

According to Bob McCowan and Neil Smith on Prime Time Sports talks heating up.

Price right now is Kadri and Gardiner.


surely we don't have to get pieces from toronto...but thats a good point to start negotiations for mg.
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#2249 aeromotacanucks

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:11 PM

Luongo is a nice Goalie, BUT when Canucks goes for THE MOMENT aparently he (Luongo) starts to fail...

the other Goalie (forgot the name) did a good job last season, maybe itīs time to give him a chance...
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#2250 elvis15

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:13 PM

Of course BB likes him, which articles like that. "Whatever the team is currently doing is the best thing to do."

People seem to forget that the Leafs had at least some playoff success before the first lockout. The main reason? Goaltending. Joseph and then Belfour kept them relevant. They burned a top goaltender prospect to land Raycroft, and a 1st, 2nd, and 4th round pick on Toskala - all to try to land another goalie who could provide that again. The problem was those guys were unproven.

Now here is a perennial allstar goaltender, who has proven able to handle the pressure of a major Canadian market...and he's not worth anything of value? Really? That's either complete nonsense, or total, utter BS.

Yup, they've been trying to trade to get the goalie of the future (or sign them as a UFA like with the Monster) and they've pinned their hopes on those goalies developing into proven starters. They haven't let their goalie prospects develop until now (trading away Rask before as you mentioned) and there's still some question if they're good enough.

I do think they are considering the option of getting Luongo as a proven goalie and developing Reimer and/or Scrivens to take over without the pressure of being the starter. That will likely get them into the playoffs now, and help them in future if they don't give up too much other than pieces they already have.

That's why I don't see Gardiner or Reilly coming across, but could see one of their centers (they have Bozak, Kadri and Colborne as young centers behind Grabovski) and another prospect being expendable - perhaps even a pick in a deep draft. Whether or not they offer what we want is another story, but they do have things they can offer.

Edited by elvis15, 16 January 2013 - 05:52 PM.

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