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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 4.0


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#2341 DeNiro

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:26 AM

From Trip over in the other thread:

Hockey Buzz Eklund@Eklund
Getting the impression Luongo is moved sooner than later. The situation is getting more defined by the day.

Hockey Buzz Eklund@Eklund
put another way...this time yesterday i was thinking the Canucks may just stay with Schneider and Luongo for this season. Not anymore.


Not surprising that things are heating up.

My guess would be that Gillis wants to get every teams offer in before the start of the season, so that he can decide to either make a deal now, or hold onto Luongo until the deadline/summer.

Edited by DeNiro, 17 January 2013 - 12:29 AM.

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#2342 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:34 AM

I don't know Smashian. I wasn't literally talking about moving every last player on the Leafs roster - so keep Gardiner if you will (I'd probably keep players like Grabovski and MacArthur) - but imo some of the best trades generally involve moving an over-rated player for an under-rated player - and therefore Phaneuf and Kessel would be the very first players I'd start with.


No I understand that.

Like you I would hold onto the Grabovski's and the McArthur's those are important players and those 2 in particular have been good 2nd line players for them.

But unlike you I wouldn't move Kessel, the guy is an elite sniper, I would look at moving Phanuef though, maybe for that playmaking #1 center Kessel needs to maximize his full ability and potential. Kessel would hit 40-50 goals easily and you would think the center would be pretty adept defensively too, then maybe move JVR for a solid Dman to replace Phaneuf.
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#2343 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:35 AM

From Trip over in the other thread:



Not surprising that things are heating up.

My guess would be that Gillis wants to get every teams offer in before the start of the season, so that he can decide to either make a deal now, or hold onto Luongo until the deadline/summer.


I kinda hope so, I just want to see the situation resolved honestly, we can keep our guns high but once it comes time to make a deal and Nonis moves a bit I think we have to move to a more realistic deal.
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#2344 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:40 AM

Was busy earlier so I am just watching that's hockey now, and I was kinda surprised (not entirely but sorta) when Gillis said he has been in constant contact with with 4-5 teams off and on throughtout the past week, he could just be saying that but I do believe their is atleast 3 if not more personally.
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#2345 DeNiro

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:42 AM

I kinda hope so, I just want to see the situation resolved honestly, we can keep our guns high but once it comes time to make a deal and Nonis moves a bit I think we have to move to a more realistic deal.


A realistic deal is one that makes Canucks fans at least say "that's a fair deal". Not one that makes people say we got ripped off.

If Gillis can't at least get a fair deal now, there's no point in making one till the summer.
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#2346 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:48 AM

A realistic deal is one that makes Canucks fans at least say "that's a fair deal". Not one that makes people say we got ripped off.

If Gillis can't at least get a fair deal now, there's no point in making one till the summer.


I agree, that's what I ment, obviously I don't know the situation and if Nonis isn't offering enough or we are asking for too much but if I had to bet I would say it's the 2nd one.

aslong as the deal is fair, we might need to step up and make it sooner rather than later.
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#2347 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:49 AM

I like Gardiner's talent as much as the next person, but having concussion issues so early in his career is scary.

agreed my concern too, end up with damaged goods for lou
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#2348 DeNiro

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:57 AM

I agree, that's what I ment, obviously I don't know the situation and if Nonis isn't offering enough or we are asking for too much but if I had to bet I would say it's the 2nd one.

aslong as the deal is fair, we might need to step up and make it sooner rather than later.


Yea, and everyone will have a different view of what's fair. But my view is that if we don't at least get a roster player, a top prospect, and a pick, we're getting ripped off.

Whether it's a top roster player and a mid-range prospect, or a high end prospect and an average roster player. We need to get some value now and for the future.

I'm not sure that if Kadri is the best prospect we can get now if I wanna make that trade. I just don't see how putting a player so similar to Hodgson in the third line role won't lead to the exact same situation in a couple years (no room for him to move up). And is he really a giant upgrade over Schroeder at this point? It's hard to say.
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#2349 Rypien37

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:33 AM

I don't get people thinking Gillis should wait till the summer if the right offer isn't there.

Our window is win is pretty much coming to an end, I'd say this season or next.
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#2350 Pears

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:36 AM

I don't get people thinking Gillis should wait till the summer if the right offer isn't there.

Our window is win is pretty much coming to an end, I'd say this season or next.

I have a good feeling about this year. If we get something good for Luongo, Kesler and Booth come back 100%, Raymond has a bounce back year and Kassian and Schroeder do well, watch for us to go deep into the playoffs, like the WCF or SCF deep.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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#2351 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:40 AM

Yea, and everyone will have a different view of what's fair. But my view is that if we don't at least get a roster player, a top prospect, and a pick, we're getting ripped off.

Whether it's a top roster player and a mid-range prospect, or a high end prospect and an average roster player. We need to get some value now and for the future.

I'm not sure that if Kadri is the best prospect we can get now if I wanna make that trade. I just don't see how putting a player so similar to Hodgson in the third line role won't lead to the exact same situation in a couple years (no room for him to move up). And is he really a giant upgrade over Schroeder at this point? It's hard to say.


I pretty much agree with you, I think Kadri is a bit different than Coho though, his role would be. Right now he could really help, he can play W or C so he could fill either hole on the 2nd line, is he alot better than Schroeder? tough to say, offensively? Yes. Defensively? His Defensive game has improved but no, Kadri is better offensively & he is further along, I would give JS the edge defensively and athletically. And I don't see any better prospect to go after, Colbourne is on the path to being a 3rd liner, just doesn't have the offensive upside and doesn't use his size well enough to be a top 6 winger IMO, and we have enough players prospecting to be 3rd liners. Ashton could be top 6, could be 3rd, I'll say 2nd/3rd, I don't think we need another one as I think we have a few prospects like that, who else? Biggs? Finn? Yeah I wouldn't mind either, would rather have Kadri though.

I agree though, a package with a roster player, Prospect and pick is what we need. Right now it seems to be Bozak, Kadri, 2nd. I wouldn't be overly thrilled with that but I would be fine with it, maybe we could get a conditional 3rd round pick aswell or make that 2nd turn into a 1st if Bozak doesn't re-sign. Who knows. That seems to be what it will be right now though.
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#2352 DeNiro

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:40 AM

The more I think about it, the more I think Florida is the best trading partner.

They're a team with a lot of young prospects that are building right now, but they've got salary issues. In order to re-sign Kulikov, they're going to have to dole out another 3 million or more most likely.

That would mean they're going to have to shed some more salary, especially if they're interested in Luongo.

I could see them offering us the best package, on the condition that we take back a large amount of salary. But since we have Kesler on LTIR, we can afford to do that, and simply buy out whatever salary they send us. (if ownership is willing to)
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#2353 Trebreh

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 02:07 AM

If there is a trade imminent, i predict friday could be the day.

So look for player movements or missing players from practice in the rumoured destinations for Luongo.
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#2354 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 04:38 AM

Hey; who is over rated on the Canucks, honestly? For better or worse all guys get called out with playing time by AV. We have the ultimate bullshort detector...

Only Lou; who was the highest paid player in the league in our cup year, maybe Burrows or Edler? And they're still good players!

Toronto???

I don't know Smashian. I wasn't literally talking about moving every last player on the Leafs roster - so keep Gardiner if you will (I'd probably keep players like Grabovski and MacArthur) - but imo some of the best trades generally involve moving an over-rated player for an under-rated player - and therefore Phaneuf and Kessel would be the very first players I'd start with.


Kadri is bigger and a talent, but not as dynamic as Hodgson. I suppose we could make that work?

I suggest go with work rate; Biggs is a lock 3rd line RW and possibly has the talent to be top 6? Get MacArthur, same reason, but helps RIGHT now (and gives TO more cap relief). As we get no bonafide blue chippers > a conditional first in this years draft if TO makes the play off's, next if they don't.The first is the real return for Lou! Lou could have walked 2 years ago, if we get a first and two lockdown hard nosed guys???

I pretty much agree with you, I think Kadri is a bit different than Coho though, his role would be. Right now he could really help, he can play W or C so he could fill either hole on the 2nd line, is he alot better than Schroeder? tough to say, offensively? Yes. Defensively? His Defensive game has improved but no, Kadri is better offensively & he is further along, I would give JS the edge defensively and athletically. And I don't see any better prospect to go after, Colbourne is on the path to being a 3rd liner, just doesn't have the offensive upside and doesn't use his size well enough to be a top 6 winger IMO, and we have enough players prospecting to be 3rd liners. Ashton could be top 6, could be 3rd, I'll say 2nd/3rd, I don't think we need another one as I think we have a few prospects like that, who else? Biggs? Finn? Yeah I wouldn't mind either, would rather have Kadri though.

I agree though, a package with a roster player, Prospect and pick is what we need. Right now it seems to be Bozak, Kadri, 2nd. I wouldn't be overly thrilled with that but I would be fine with it, maybe we could get a conditional 3rd round pick aswell or make that 2nd turn into a 1st if Bozak doesn't re-sign. Who knows. That seems to be what it will be right now though.


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 17 January 2013 - 04:50 AM.

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#2355 King of the ES

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 05:04 AM

Of course it was 7 years ago. So what? Luongo had another very good year last year. You keep saying he's gonna tank (too old), but he's been doing the job consistently well for a decade. I don't see him dropping the ball in the next 5-7 years, and I doubt Nonis does either. He's certainly a proven upgrade on their arena-sized question marks in Reimer and whoever the next "phenom" is supposed to be.


So what? :lol:

Makes a pretty big difference, don't you think? A 27 year-old versus a 34 year-old?
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#2356 King of the ES

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 05:06 AM

Nonis coming out and saying "Well we're gonna try and build the team again for another 5 years. And at that point we may or may not be in a better position then we are now" That wouldn't really fly with fans I don't think.


Sure it would. They're not stupid. If you were a Leaf fan, would you rather acquire Luongo and fight for the 8th seed, only to get trounced in the 1st round by Boston, or would you rather roll the dice and hope to accumulate some franchise players through the draft like Edmonton has?

Do you really think that most Leaf fans feel that they're a Roberto Luongo away from contending for a Stanley Cup?

Edited by King of the ES, 17 January 2013 - 05:07 AM.

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#2357 DeNiro

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 05:19 AM

Sure it would. They're not stupid. If you were a Leaf fan, would you rather acquire Luongo and fight for the 8th seed, only to get trounced in the 1st round by Boston, or would you rather roll the dice and hope to accumulate some franchise players through the draft like Edmonton has?

Do you really think that most Leaf fans feel that they're a Roberto Luongo away from contending for a Stanley Cup?


Right, and know that you essentially gave up Seguin and Hamilton for Kessel, who will end up wasting his best years as a Leaf on a rebuild?

No, no I would not be happy with that. And any Leaf fan that is, is an idiot.

I say add a few pieces, try and squeek into the playoffs like the kings did, and hope Luongo catches fire. There's less of a gamble there, then counting on some future prospects that may or may not ever pan out. Who's to say Nonis is any better at building a team than Burke was?

Edited by DeNiro, 17 January 2013 - 05:20 AM.

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#2358 Gooseberries

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 05:28 AM

Right, and know that you essentially gave up Seguin and Hamilton for Kessel, who will end up wasting his best years as a Leaf on a rebuild?

No, no I would not be happy with that. And any Leaf fan that is, is an idiot.

I say add a few pieces, try and squeek into the playoffs like the kings did, and hope Luongo catches fire. There's less of a gamble there, then counting on some future prospects that may or may not ever pan out. Who's to say Nonis is any better at building a team than Burke was?

this. if nonis likes his job with the laffs he's gunna want to make the playoffs soon. new owners want to see their team win. a complete rebuild now won't but them into the playoffs until his 3rd or 4th years as a gm. burke was fired 4 years in...so why wouldn't they fire nonis if he cant make a playoff team in the next four years.
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#2359 WiDeN

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 07:03 AM

Sure it would. They're not stupid. If you were a Leaf fan, would you rather acquire Luongo and fight for the 8th seed, only to get trounced in the 1st round by Boston, or would you rather roll the dice and hope to accumulate some franchise players through the draft like Edmonton has?

Do you really think that most Leaf fans feel that they're a Roberto Luongo away from contending for a Stanley Cup?

The majority of fans don't know enough about hockey business to be happy with losing now to win later. People want their team to make the playoffs, and that's why teams make so much money in the playoffs, cause all the fringe fans come out.
No fan base wants to endure a rebuild, whether it's the right move or not.
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#2360 Gooseberries

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 07:22 AM

The majority of fans don't know enough about hockey business to be happy with losing now to win later. People want their team to make the playoffs, and that's why teams make so much money in the playoffs, cause all the fringe fans come out.
No fan base wants to endure a rebuild, whether it's the right move or not.

intelligent fans don't mind rebuilds. its a part of the game (unless your Detroit) and they understand. sooner or later we will need a rebuild believe it or not. anyways if.I were a Toronto fan (intelligent or not) I want to win some games and.make the playoffs now. they are supposed to be rebuilt already. they haven't made the playoffs in 10 years now how can you justify a rebuild? Ottawa made it to the scf in 2007. they are already tooled up and made the playoffs last year and look to have a bright future with stellar goaltending.
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#2361 Nuxfanabroad

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 07:27 AM

Once bitten, twice shy(on selling the future)...Respectfully I must disagree gentlemen. TO's lineup is going nowhere fast. Deep down they all know they need to tank a yr & a half(next 2 drafts, get some decent prospects); & load up in summer 2014(UFA's) with their cap-space. That's when they'll need a competent manager-'til then they'll tell Nonis what to do.

The 3-way trade is good for Philly, TO & our boys. Let the Maple Fleas take on Bryz..
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#2362 King of the ES

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:39 AM

Right, and know that you essentially gave up Seguin and Hamilton for Kessel, who will end up wasting his best years as a Leaf on a rebuild?

No, no I would not be happy with that. And any Leaf fan that is, is an idiot.

I say add a few pieces, try and squeek into the playoffs like the kings did, and hope Luongo catches fire. There's less of a gamble there, then counting on some future prospects that may or may not ever pan out. Who's to say Nonis is any better at building a team than Burke was?


There are a lot of options with Kessel. They could trade him, for one. Another option would be to hang onto him and hope that they'd be able to sign a guy like Getzlaf as a UFA in the off-season (lots of cap space), which would totally change their team.

Regarding the fans, come on. They really didn't do a rebuild under Burke. They didn't tank. They signed a bunch of UFAs and hoped to squeak into the playoffs every year. It was never even close to being a blatant rebuild a la Edmonton. Fans would be very happy to tank, I would think, if it meant acquiring a guy like MacKinnon or a guy like McDavid (potentially both).

And can we all just stop with the "the Kings simply got hot!" nonsense? Look at their roster. Mike Richards. Jeff Carter. Anze Kopitar. Dustin Brown. Drew Doughty. Jonathan Quick. Great character depth like Stoll, Greene, Mitchell, Williams. Underachieving is different than "squeaking into the playoffs and getting hot". Their roster is loaded, and that's why they won the Cup. You can't fluke your way to the finals on a "hot streak". To think that Toronto could somehow mimic a performance like theirs because they simply acquired Roberto Luongo is downright laughable.
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#2363 CB007

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:19 AM

The more I think about it, the more I think Florida is the best trading partner.


I agree. I'm not so secretly wishing that Kes would stay on LTIR for the season so we have enough cap for Weiss and Theodore, AND some more at trade deadline.
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#2364 CB007

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:22 AM

Mike Richards. Jeff Carter. Anze Kopitar. Dustin Brown. Drew Doughty. Jonathan Quick.


Every one of them had question marks before the playoffs... those question marks simply went away after the first 3 games against us.
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#2365 Boudrias

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:30 AM

The more I think about it, the more I think Florida is the best trading partner.

They're a team with a lot of young prospects that are building right now, but they've got salary issues. In order to re-sign Kulikov, they're going to have to dole out another 3 million or more most likely.

That would mean they're going to have to shed some more salary, especially if they're interested in Luongo.

I could see them offering us the best package, on the condition that we take back a large amount of salary. But since we have Kesler on LTIR, we can afford to do that, and simply buy out whatever salary they send us. (if ownership is willing to)

Agreed that Florida has more to offer. The Laffers don't appear to be offering anything that is bonafide top 6. Bozak is OK as a part only. Kadri hasn't proven anything. The only interesting part might be a 2nd pic in a strong draft year as TO will tank again. Gillis has to hold strong and get his top 6 help. Van's timeline clock is ticking.
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#2366 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:41 AM

Connolly waived implications:

Bozak and Kadri are going nowhere. Sorry Smashian, maybe you can start rooting for the leafs.

Here's my guess

Toronto still in and Nucks are asking/getting

Gardiner/Biggs and a 2nd
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#2367 sampy

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:48 AM

Connolly waived implications:

Bozak and Kadri are going nowhere. Sorry Smashian, maybe you can start rooting for the leafs.

Here's my guess

Toronto still in and Nucks are asking/getting

Gardiner/Biggs and a 2nd


I'd still take Gardiner and a 2nd. Other than Rielly, no one else on the Leafs is worth it.

Gardiner/Rielly, Reimer and a 2nd
For
Lu, Sauve, 3rd, Alberts (depth)

If MG can work some magic add Biggs. IMO Rollie could help Reimer out a lot and turn him into a potential starter to give the Canucks more trade bait next year.

Edited by sampy, 17 January 2013 - 09:54 AM.

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#2368 D-Money

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:23 AM

Great?   :sadno:

Yeah well Kessel scored some pretty good goals this year, but tanked down the stretch.  And how many puck battles did he win?

And ask me if TO fans thought he was worth the farm his first year in town?


Kessel is one of the best pure goalscorers in the league. He has scored 99 goals for them in three years, without a legitimate 1st-line center. He's the only REAL threat on that team, so he has done it despite being the focus of top defenders each game. He turned Joffrey Lupul into an all-star. The guy has been all-world offensively for them, and hasn't missed a game in the last two seasons.

The trade was only TERRIBLE for the Leafs because Boston got Seguin. Had they just been a bit better, or had another team win the lottery and bump that pick to 3rd, it wouldn't be so one-sided. Gubrandson/Johansen, Hamilton, and Caron is still a steep price, but not COMPLETELY one-sided.

Besides, since when to TO fans know anything?

Edited by D-Money, 17 January 2013 - 10:30 AM.

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#2369 D-Money

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:33 AM

Sure it would. They're not stupid. If you were a Leaf fan, would you rather acquire Luongo and fight for the 8th seed, only to get trounced in the 1st round by Boston, or would you rather roll the dice and hope to accumulate some franchise players through the draft like Edmonton has?

Do you really think that most Leaf fans feel that they're a Roberto Luongo away from contending for a Stanley Cup?


The only thing that is certain, is that the Leafs have the longest playoff drought in the league.

If they seriously want to progress beyond laughing-stock, and attract quality free agents (Getzlaf? Perry? Both?) they will need to rectify that.
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#2370 oldnews

oldnews

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:48 AM

Connolly waived implications:

Bozak and Kadri are going nowhere. Sorry Smashian, maybe you can start rooting for the leafs.

Here's my guess

Toronto still in and Nucks are asking/getting

Gardiner/Biggs and a 2nd


That deal never made sense to either team anyhow.

Moving Connolly is a natural progression. Lombardi and Connolly had to go if the Leafs want to improve. It was time to bite the bullet and dump them for whatever they could get.
They now have those guys' salary to pay Bozak to stay.
They are better off with Grabovski, Bozak, Kadri, Colborne and Steckel.
Nothing is stopping them from making a move for better depth players.
I still wouldn't be surprised if Bozak were dealt as well.

If I were Nonis, I'd be asking Rogers if they're serious about their billion dollar acquisition. If so, give him the go ahead to buy a quick rebuild.
Next I'd be wrapping up Phaneuf and calling Garth Snow.
What will you give us for that veteran blueliner you need, and to take back Dipietro in the deal?
The answer should be enough to make the Leafs a considerably better team immediately and going forward.
One of their handful of quality young centers, a good young blueliner like Hamonic, and futures...

Buyout Dipietro immediately (someone is going to have to) - and then turn around and give Gillis that phone call with another handful of assets in hand - a few of which he may be considerably more interested in.

Hope they don't do it though - I like them just as they are... :bigblush:

I'd rather see Gillis and the Aquillini's cut the Leafs out of the middle and go straight to Long Island themselves.
Right now would be the best time to buy a couple extra assets and futures. Blow that window open and keep it that way - perhaps worth the investment - is a 7% injection of capital worth it for the $350ish miilion franchise.
I'm not an economist, I'm a fan, but...
Luo Ballard
Dipietro, a young center (take your pick, they have a bushel), a young blueliner (Hamonic), a young RW (Okposo) and enough picks/prospects to pay for the rest of that massive buyout.

Edited by oldnews, 17 January 2013 - 11:02 AM.

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