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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 4.0


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#2461 oldnews

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 07:39 PM

I think offensively Kadri is more dynamic, and he is faster & more mobile which adds another dynamic, Hodgson is a bit more defensive minded although he hasn't shown it much at this level yet, they are probably equally dynamic, Kadri is ready to step in and play too, we could really use him on the 2nd line,


I'd take Kadri over Hodgson myself. Neither is really my kind of player, but imo Kadri has more grit, is a better skater, and has as much offensive upside.
I can't imagine Kadri being less defensively minded lol.
Don't tell anyone I said this, but I think Kadri will make a decent NHLer - my reasons behind not being interested in a deal that includes him is that I simply see him as a poor fit in Vancouver - not a two way 3rd line C type, not really the kind of physical presence I'd want out of a top 6 winger...and if he's not top 6, he's not worth the asking price. I think Schroeder would make a better 3rd line C, and most people are still looking to upgrade...

But just as an aside for those so worried about the Canucks centers - you might want to have a look at a team like Chicago. Beyond Toews, it looks like this:

Bolland
Kruger
Pirri

I wouldn't want to roll with that - even when healthy. Beyond them, they move Shaw to C? Another mini C?
Toews aside, they are all lightweights. Bolland is the biggest of them at 184 lbs.
Their top prospect C is 165lbs...
They are going to get manhandled down low. Some people consider that team a goaltender short of being a contender - I think they're extremely top heavy - once you get outside their top 5 or 6 players, they are average at best.

Edited by oldnews, 17 January 2013 - 07:44 PM.

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#2462 HUFFY

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 07:43 PM

theres a new draft lottery system now, I dont think Florida will get in the playoff even with Luongo in net. They played well over their heads last season and Garrison being a top shutdown Dman for them also helped.

That 1st could be a top 5 pick or a 1st overall if were lucky.

Matthias is everything we need in a 3rd line centre, good checker, big, young and fights.

Malhotra is a UFA by the end of the season thats why i threw in Rodin or Schroeder in there as a bait.

Garrison played well in the first half of last season but was a dog in the last half = sucked bigtime!!!!
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#2463 HUFFY

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 07:52 PM

I love these Toronto media guys who act like Kadri and Bozak is too high a price for Luongo, everyone is saying Gillis is asking too much (which is the most likely scenerio) but perhaps the other teams are just low balling, Toronto in particular.

I know Kadri and Bozak together won't happen since they have no depth, but the I just can't believe people think the value their in that package is too much to trade for Lu.


It isn't so much the value of Kadri and Bozak as it is that albatross of a contract that Lu is carrying around his neck every time a team shows interest in him. With 10 years left on it MG should be beggin' the Leafs to take it off his hands and forget tryin' to get players he has no hope of getting. Remember, MG is not the most popular GM in the league so if he thinks he can con anyone into Lu's contract then he needs to be a player agent again!!.....
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#2464 HUFFY

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 07:59 PM

Lu's contract is just way way to huge to take on for any team to give up any quality players for him!! MG buried any chance of getting anything for him in return. Lest we forget it's at least 5.5 million per year for the next ten years and that's if he plays them out. It gets even worse if he retires, lets say, when he's 40. Way to go MG. I wonder how long it will be that Lu can stand bein' a backup to PA (panic attack) Boy!!!.......
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#2465 ice orca

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:04 PM

It isn't so much the value of Kadri and Bozak as it is that albatross of a contract that Lu is carrying around his neck every time a team shows interest in him. With 10 years left on it MG should be beggin' the Leafs to take it off his hands and forget tryin' to get players he has no hope of getting. Remember, MG is not the most popular GM in the league so if he thinks he can con anyone into Lu's contract then he needs to be a player agent again!!.....

Gillis was voted by his peers as GM of the year 2 years ago..go back to huffing gas.
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#2466 oldnews

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:15 PM

Lu's contract is just way way to huge to take on for any team to give up any quality players for him!! MG buried any chance of getting anything for him in return. Lest we forget it's at least 5.5 million per year for the next ten years and that's if he plays them out. It gets even worse if he retires, lets say, when he's 40. Way to go MG. I wonder how long it will be that Lu can stand bein' a backup to PA (panic attack) Boy!!!.......


classy. new guy's classy.


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Edited by oldnews, 17 January 2013 - 10:40 PM.

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#2467 Gollumpus

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:25 PM

Lu's contract is just way way to huge to take on for any team to give up any quality players for him!!


I'm not too concerned about Luongo's contract. If it was way, Way, WAY to huge then I might be concerned, but as it isn't I'm NOT, Not, not.


regards,
G.
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#2468 Bure fan

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:20 PM

i agree. I dont buy the argument that schneider is going to cry himself to sleep every night Lu is still here.

my only concern is if Lu sucks this year.. if that happens then i guess we can expect one of king's ridiculous devaluations to become reality.. untill that happens we are in good shape


Yeah that is well said. If Luongo is not playing atleast decent when he gets his starts, then the value is going to drop like BBM's stock value a year ago...

I do not see Luongo starting off slow this because as others have said he will want to prove his worth and show that he is still Elite. Then again, you never know if Luongo truly has lost his edge and just isn't the same goalie he once was.

So many questions over one goalie haha.
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#10 Pavel Bure #96


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#2469 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:44 PM

It isn't so much the value of Kadri and Bozak as it is that albatross of a contract that Lu is carrying around his neck every time a team shows interest in him. With 10 years left on it MG should be beggin' the Leafs to take it off his hands and forget tryin' to get players he has no hope of getting. Remember, MG is not the most popular GM in the league so if he thinks he can con anyone into Lu's contract then he needs to be a player agent again!!.....


No he shouldn't...

He should get the best deal possible and if the deal doesn't help us then wait and make the move later on.
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#2470 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:37 PM

Well as objective as you can be on most issues; your single minded bias against Hodgson is as obvious as King's bias against pretty much anything u have to say?

More grit by virtue of more size perhaps, and yes a better skater; but neither could be classified in the same cast of grit as Burrows. Or Bolland??? Oh well...

I recall Bolland taking on the Twins as a 3C and doing a damn fine job? The balance of your assessment on Chicago is why they run with their horses, plus those horses are young. Hossa's concussion aside, they seem pretty capable of logging big minutes. I think they have a bit of youth they could lose on D, pick up Lou, add a balancing move and come out quite a threat. Sharp, Toews, Kane and Hossa, Kieth and Seabrook are good enough they deserve an honest move or 2 to give them a crack at winning.

My only problem is if we pick up Nick Leddy, we also need further moves to make room for him.

A third party team who needs a left D and has a promising centre or RW would help a lot!

I'd take Kadri over Hodgson myself. Neither is really my kind of player, but imo Kadri has more grit, is a better skater, and has as much offensive upside.
I can't imagine Kadri being less defensively minded lol.
Don't tell anyone I said this, but I think Kadri will make a decent NHLer - my reasons behind not being interested in a deal that includes him is that I simply see him as a poor fit in Vancouver - not a two way 3rd line C type, not really the kind of physical presence I'd want out of a top 6 winger...and if he's not top 6, he's not worth the asking price. I think Schroeder would make a better 3rd line C, and most people are still looking to upgrade...

But just as an aside for those so worried about the Canucks centers - you might want to have a look at a team like Chicago. Beyond Toews, it looks like this:

Bolland
Kruger
Pirri

I wouldn't want to roll with that - even when healthy. Beyond them, they move Shaw to C? Another mini C?
Toews aside, they are all lightweights. Bolland is the biggest of them at 184 lbs.
Their top prospect C is 165lbs...
They are going to get manhandled down low. Some people consider that team a goaltender short of being a contender - I think they're extremely top heavy - once you get outside their top 5 or 6 players, they are average at best.


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 17 January 2013 - 10:58 PM.

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#2471 oldnews

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:22 PM

Great entertainment value - watching the Hockeycentral season preview.
How often do you get so many great hockey minds assembled in one cast? Shannon, Maclean....and Cox! Crrrream of the crop.

Bad news though - Cox says the latest - Kadri, Bozak and a 2nd - is too much - Nonis not going to do that.

Now what are the Canucks going to do?

But then again, Cox says that if it was up to Carlyle, he'd be saying 'go out and get me a real goalie!'

Man, that Cox guy's got one tight polka face!


Keenan - you don't trade Luongo unlessl you get an offer you can't refuse. Two aces in the pocket.

Other voices of reason - why the hell would Luongo want to go to Toronto?

Everyone but Cox is laughing at the Leafs prospects of making the playoffs.

How is Carlyle going to make two way players out of Phaneuf and Kadri?


Luo - Hey Mike, I really want to do what's best for the team, but please, don't ask me to play in front of that blueline and a bunch of people wearing paper bags.

Mike - Luo, I hear you. Believe me, I hear you. I understand completely. And Luo to be honest, they have nothing worth sending you there for.

Luo - Thanks. And Mike... Their media is really getting on my nerves.

Mike - Word Luo. Let's mess with them. Use them, dangle you, toy with them - between you and I - watch them work it - and... it's never gonna happen hahaha!

Luo - Yeah - hey, "I've been dealt!" haha

Mike - Yeah, you'll get the Laffs alright Lou - the last laughs ahahaha!

Edited by oldnews, 17 January 2013 - 11:29 PM.

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#2472 Garrison

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:32 PM

I'm thinking there isn't going to be a Luongo trade.
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#2473 Noheart

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:44 PM

I got up to take a leak and now there is 83 pages, holy crap.
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BEASTLY!!!

#2474 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 12:00 AM

Great entertainment value - watching the Hockeycentral season preview.
How often do you get so many great hockey minds assembled in one cast? Shannon, Maclean....and Cox! Crrrream of the crop.

Bad news though - Cox says the latest - Kadri, Bozak and a 2nd - is too much - Nonis not going to do that.

Now what are the Canucks going to do?

But then again, Cox says that if it was up to Carlyle, he'd be saying 'go out and get me a real goalie!'

Man, that Cox guy's got one tight polka face!


Keenan - you don't trade Luongo unlessl you get an offer you can't refuse. Two aces in the pocket.

Other voices of reason - why the hell would Luongo want to go to Toronto?

Everyone but Cox is laughing at the Leafs prospects of making the playoffs.

How is Carlyle going to make two way players out of Phaneuf and Kadri?


Luo - Hey Mike, I really want to do what's best for the team, but please, don't ask me to play in front of that blueline and a bunch of people wearing paper bags.

Mike - Luo, I hear you. Believe me, I hear you. I understand completely. And Luo to be honest, they have nothing worth sending you there for.

Luo - Thanks. And Mike... Their media is really getting on my nerves.

Mike - Word Luo. Let's mess with them. Use them, dangle you, toy with them - between you and I - watch them work it - and... it's never gonna happen hahaha!

Luo - Yeah - hey, "I've been dealt!" haha

Mike - Yeah, you'll get the Laffs alright Lou - the last laughs ahahaha!


Well if they stay the course; they're gunna take a couple of kicks in the Nard's! :ph34r:

But really; nobody is wrong here. If TO had traded Kadri and Bozak they would have been up the wahoo at centre ice. It would have been a dumb trade IMO. And they're terrible at defence, despite some good players. They need to compliment those guys without giving up anyone; unless they can pull off a very good D for D trade. But it rules out a D for Lou. And if they're up a creek at the NHL level, how could they afford to give up their best prospects at those positions?

All that makes sense is some combination of wing and prayer, I mean prospect (on wing).

Are we interested in MacArthur, Brigg's, Ashton? If it were your team would you put someone else up on offer?



I'm thinking there isn't going to be a Luongo trade.


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#2475 Blame Obama

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 12:20 AM

what to do with luongo jersey?
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#2476 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 12:21 AM

Everyone but Cox is laughing at the Leafs prospects of making the playoffs.


I know such a homer.
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#2477 oldnews

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 12:52 AM

Well if they stay the course; they're gunna take a couple of kicks in the Nard's! :ph34r:

But really; nobody is wrong here. If TO had traded Kadri and Bozak they would have been up the wahoo at centre ice. It would have been a dumb trade IMO. And they're terrible at defence, despite some good players. They need to compliment those guys without giving up anyone; unless they can pull off a very good D for D trade. But it rules out a D for Lou. And if they're up a creek at the NHL level, how could they afford to give up their best prospects at those positions?

All that makes sense is some combination of wing and prayer, I mean prospect (on wing).

Are we interested in MacArthur, Brigg's, Ashton? If it were your team would you put someone else up on offer?


Are you asking me if it were my team would I offer someone else?

Nonis has his work cut out for him with a bunch of UFAs, young goaltenders, and a porous blueline.

At this point, an impatient fan base and owners that want playoff revenues are not going to want a real rebuild.

So imo the wing would be (moving) Kessel and the prayer would be trying to get an overpayment for Phaneuf. It it were my team, I wouldn't have built it around Phaneuf and Kessel - I'd start right there and convert their value into a different kind of Leafs core. Imo they can't afford not to give those guys up - but the right deals could make them better immediately. They need to pull a Holmgren and swing veteran for volume youth deals like the Richards, Carter (and Nash) deals.

When it comes to a Luongo deal, the Leafs best (two way and dollar for dollar) assets are their LWs and their top line center imo. The Leafs have no real depth in the areas the Canucks need. If they want to build from the goaltender out, use the parts where they mispent - Kessel - and their most over-rated asset - Phaneuf - to retool on the go. Use part of the return from those deals to get their goaltender.
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#2478 King of the ES

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 04:46 AM

I'd take Kadri over Hodgson myself. Neither is really my kind of player, but imo Kadri has more grit, is a better skater, and has as much offensive upside.


But you'd also take Anton Rodin over either, right?
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#2479 King of the ES

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 05:01 AM

When it comes to a Luongo deal, the Leafs best (two way and dollar for dollar) assets are their LWs and their top line center imo. The Leafs have no real depth in the areas the Canucks need. If they want to build from the goaltender out, use the parts where they mispent - Kessel - and their most over-rated asset - Phaneuf - to retool on the go. Use part of the return from those deals to get their goaltender.


So the guy who thinks it's too risky for Toronto to build through the draft - "that method doesn't work, King" - wants them to trade their two best players? For what?
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#2480 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 05:58 AM

:shock: So u reckon Kessel of Phaneuf is potentially coming back for Lou?

Or at least for someone...?

I must admit, as unpopular as it would be for TO its probably smart. Rebuilding has a potential to have a quick turnaround.

If I'm TO I'm investigating what I can get for Kessel. Unless (and I don't watch TO enough) Phaneuf is too slow, I'm inclined to think he still needs to be part of the equation. That team will completely tank if they lose Phaneuf. Gardiner, Liles and Komisarek individually are too small or too slow. TO may be willing to rebuild, but to blow it up?

Are you asking me if it were my team would I offer someone else?

Nonis has his work cut out for him with a bunch of UFAs, young goaltenders, and a porous blueline.

At this point, an impatient fan base and owners that want playoff revenues are not going to want a real rebuild.

So imo the wing would be (moving) Kessel and the prayer would be trying to get an overpayment for Phaneuf. It it were my team, I wouldn't have built it around Phaneuf and Kessel - I'd start right there and convert their value into a different kind of Leafs core. Imo they can't afford not to give those guys up - but the right deals could make them better immediately. They need to pull a Holmgren and swing veteran for volume youth deals like the Richards, Carter (and Nash) deals.

When it comes to a Luongo deal, the Leafs best (two way and dollar for dollar) assets are their LWs and their top line center imo. The Leafs have no real depth in the areas the Canucks need. If they want to build from the goaltender out, use the parts where they mispent - Kessel - and their most over-rated asset - Phaneuf - to retool on the go. Use part of the return from those deals to get their goaltender.


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 18 January 2013 - 06:06 AM.

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#2481 eretz canucks

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 06:22 AM

screw it trade schneider to columbus for Johansen and a first. Done.
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#2482 WiDeN

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 07:44 AM

screw it trade schneider to columbus for Johansen and a first. Done.

Bad plan.
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#2483 Mr. White

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 08:42 AM

screw it trade schneider to columbus for Johansen and a first. Done.


Good thing you're not GM
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#2484 D-Money

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:31 AM

Are you asking me if it were my team would I offer someone else?

Nonis has his work cut out for him with a bunch of UFAs, young goaltenders, and a porous blueline.

At this point, an impatient fan base and owners that want playoff revenues are not going to want a real rebuild.

So imo the wing would be (moving) Kessel and the prayer would be trying to get an overpayment for Phaneuf.   It it were my team, I wouldn't have built it around Phaneuf and Kessel -  I'd start right there and convert their value into a different kind of Leafs core.  Imo they can't afford not to give those guys up - but the right deals could make them better immediately.   They need to pull a Holmgren and swing veteran for volume youth deals like the Richards, Carter (and Nash) deals.

When it comes to a Luongo deal, the Leafs best (two way and dollar for dollar) assets are their LWs and their top line center imo.  The Leafs have no real depth in the areas the Canucks need. If they want to build from the goaltender out, use the parts where they mispent - Kessel - and their most over-rated asset - Phaneuf - to retool on the go.  Use part of the return from those deals to get their goaltender.


I half-agree with you. Phaneuf is not a good fit on that team. And making him captain? Crazy...but can they really take it away from him now?

I still think the answer to Lu in TO could be Phaneuf. I actually think Dion would fit in just fine here. He wouldn't be in a leadership position. We'd get back our RH point-shot that we lost with Salo, and toughen up our 2nd pairing considerably. But will TO do it? Doubt it.

As for Kessel, the thing is, he's still so young. He's been scoring so many goals for so long, that people forget he's still only 25. So although TO could expect quite a package for him, he's probably more worth holding on to - depending on 2 things:

1) He wants to re-sign in Toronto when his contract is up.
2) The Leafs will be targetting players that will help them now, rather than tanking a year or two for high picks.

If either of those are not the case, then yeah, they should deal Kessel too. he'll only help them win enough to not get top picks.
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#2485 Monty

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:38 AM

Well, I'll state the obvious. It appears as though Luo will start the season as a Canuck, splitting duties with Schneider. Not a bad move. Shortened season, and training camp, increasing the risk of injury. If both are fresh, it increases the chance of the Canucks stealing games this year, which is absolutely necessary with both Booth and Kesler out of the lineup.

As for the Leafs, if Nonis has backing from ownership, he will take the time to rebuild the team. And if he is really smart, he'll wait to trade for Luongo at the deadline or July 1st. The reason? Ryan Getzlaf or Corey Perry. With Luongo, the Leafs have no chance at winning the Stanley Cup, just giving up future assets to make a little extra revenue in the postseason, not win the Cup, and get more middle of the road draft picks. However, if the Leafs can somehow acquire Getzlaf or Perry at the trade deadline and sign to an extension, I see the Leafs then pulling the trigger on Luongo. Having an All-Star goaltender with one Getzlaf or Perry would significanlty bolster the Leafs roster and chances of at Least making the conference finals.


Otherwise, it really isn't in the teams best interest.
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#2486 Yeria

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:39 AM

To be blown out by the LA Kings in 5 games of the first round on home ice is far more disgraceful then not makin' the playoffs especially after earning the PC trophy again = LAME!!!!!!

Yeah... that's why I would rather want my team to not even make the playoffs instead... you know, for the grace of it.
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#2487 D-Money

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:43 AM

But just as an aside for those so worried about the Canucks centers - you might want to have a look at a team like Chicago.  Beyond Toews, it looks like this:

Bolland
Kruger
Pirri

I wouldn't want to roll with that - even when healthy.  Beyond them, they move Shaw to C?  Another mini C?
Toews aside, they are all lightweights.  Bolland is the biggest of them at 184 lbs.
Their top prospect C is 165lbs...
They are going to get manhandled down low.  Some people consider that team a goaltender short of being a contender - I think they're extremely top heavy - once you get outside their top 5 or 6 players, they are average at best.


Patrick Sharp ends up playing center for them a lot, so their top-6 is pretty solid.

But yeah, their depth players are definitely their biggest weakness. I'd hate to send out checking lines with those guys at center and Crawford in net. A lot of their success will depend on Bolland...which means that they'll be fine for games against the Canucks, but in tough the rest of the time.
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#2488 sampy

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 10:00 AM

I know such a homer.


I tweeted Cox last night after his brutal Sportsnet outing:

"@damospin you are going to look really dumb when Vancouver lands a couple good pieces from TO #TOpuppet"
He replied with:
"And when they don't you will disappear."

Nice guy.
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#2489 oldnews

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 10:37 AM

So the guy who thinks it's too risky for Toronto to build through the draft - "that method doesn't work, King" - wants them to trade their two best players? For what?


You fundamentally misunderstood. I didn't say building a team through the draft doesn't work. What I said is it that is that the NHL has changed the draft to reduce the reward for tanking - what I said i that doesn't work that way anymore King - any team that misses the playoffs can now walk off with the first overall pick. Tanking for the first pick isn't much of a strategy anymore.
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#2490 oldnews

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 10:39 AM

But you'd also take Anton Rodin over either, right?


You always have some way of knowing what I'm thinking King. Yes, that's a great idea. Rodin to Toronto for Kadri and a pick. Done.
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