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[Proposal] TOR - VAN


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#1 AriGold

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:05 PM

So we have been lead to believe that Luongo deal to Toronto will happen once the lockout ends. With the ability to buy out 1 possibly 2 contracts i bet It's Burkes thinking that we buy out Komisarek in the deal. I forsee something like this happening.

To Posted Image: Roberto Luongo

To Posted Image: Tyler Bozak, James Reimer, Mike Komisarek, TML 2nd 2014

I think the value is properly demonstrated and for doing the buyout the canucks get a 2nd round pick in return with Komisarek.

Bozak would help our 2nd line center positional needs till Kesler is ready to return and also make Kesler Possibly Expendable.

Thoughts ?
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#2 Pears

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:07 PM

Luongo can get more. An overpayed plug, a 3rd line center, a goalie we don't need and a pick that doesn't help us in any way isn't enough.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#3 AriGold

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:09 PM

Luongo can get more. An overpayed plug, a 3rd line center, a goalie we don't need and a pick that doesn't help us in any way isn't enough.


The Plug is included in the deal as a buyout so he holds no value. Bozak had 2 points less then Kesler last season an about 34 less penalty minutes, the goalie is a backup that we can trade once Lack is ready to backup Schneider. And a TML 2nd round pick should be 35th-45th which is a damn good pick imo.

I now realize you have very little hockey knowledge.

Edited by AriGold, 03 January 2013 - 09:09 PM.

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#4 Baercheese

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:10 PM

Luongo can get more. An overpayed plug, a 3rd line center, a goalie we don't need and a pick that doesn't help us in any way isn't enough.

Thing is realistically Luongo would only go to 3 teams, Florida, Toronto and Tampa, and they know it. Teams will use that to their advantage since the ball isn't really in Gillis' court, and will not get the max value for Luongo.
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3499h5x.jpg
Johnny Gaudreau>any Casucks

Edler, Markstrom, Hansen, 2nd round pick 2014 to Islanders for Ryan Strome, 5th overall pick 2014

This is fairly even as well.

 


#5 Pears

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:13 PM

The Plug is included in the deal as a buyout so he holds no value. Bozak had 2 points less then Kesler last season an about 34 less penalty minutes, the goalie is a backup that we can trade once Lack is ready to backup Schneider. And a TML 2nd round pick should be 35th-45th which is a damn good pick imo.

I now realize you have very little hockey knowledge.

When you play on Toronto's first line with Kessel and Lupul most of the season you are going to get 50+ points easily. Bozak is nothing more than a decent third line center. And with Luongo that pick will not be 35th-45th, more like 52nd-56th.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#6 Pears

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:15 PM

Thing is realistically Luongo would only go to 3 teams, Florida, Toronto and Tampa, and they know it. Teams will use that to their advantage since the ball isn't really in Gillis' court, and will not get the max value for Luongo.

Tampa dropped out of the running for Luongo when they got Lindback. If Lindback falters I could see them being interested in Lu again but I don't see it happening.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#7 AriGold

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:16 PM

When you play on Toronto's first line with Kessel and Lupul most of the season you are going to get 50+ points easily. Bozak is nothing more than a decent third line center. And with Luongo that pick will not be 35th-45th, more like 52nd-56th.

I fail to see how a 33 year old goalie with the confidence of a fat red headed school girl could fetch more. Luongo has proven nothing in the nhl except collapsing in the playoffs numerous times. I would love to hear what you think we can get for Luongo your majesty.
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#8 Baercheese

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:18 PM

Tampa dropped out of the running for Luongo when they got Lindback. If Lindback falters I could see them being interested in Lu again but I don't see it happening.

Totally missed my point....but okay
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3499h5x.jpg
Johnny Gaudreau>any Casucks

Edler, Markstrom, Hansen, 2nd round pick 2014 to Islanders for Ryan Strome, 5th overall pick 2014

This is fairly even as well.

 


#9 zombieksa

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:20 PM

With such a condensed season, I see no reason to trade Luongo this season. With only 48 games played, we need a solid 23+ wins to make the playoffs and being a team with 2 starters is a huge advantage.
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#10 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:20 PM

Bozak is a pending UFA, and there are no guarentees he will resign or we will be able to re-sign him with the Cap going down.

We don't need another young goalie like Riemer, he is still developing and has the chops to be a #1 and getting stuck behind Schneider isn't good for him, or doesn't make alot of sense for us, since he carries a majority of the value in this trade.

I understand using the buyout on Komi, and I agree but I would only be willing to do it if the deal was better for us.

Above all else I do like the 2nd, but I just don't think this deal helps us all that much, we could lose everything but reimer and the 2nd within a year, and even Riemer wouldn't stick around forever being Schneiders back-up.


Edit:

I fail to see how a 33 year old goalie with the confidence of a fat red headed school girl could fetch more. Luongo has proven nothing in the nhl except collapsing in the playoffs numerous times. I would love to hear what you think we can get for Luongo your majesty.


I know this wasn't directed at me, but I think something like:

- Kadri, Bozak, 2nd
Or
- Kadri, Prospect, 2nd.

Maybe a bit less, maybe a bit more but something along those lines would be reasonable for both sides IMO.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 03 January 2013 - 09:23 PM.

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#11 AriGold

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:21 PM

With such a condensed season, I see no reason to trade Luongo this season. With only 48 games played, we need a solid 23+ wins to make the playoffs and being a team with 2 starters is a huge advantage.

Completly missed the point of a proposal, haha. The point of a proposal is to say if this were to happen what do you think of it ?

If you want to discuss Luongo i think there is a 1000 page thread in Canucks Talk.

Also for the record I don't think Luongo will return to Vancouver. "I'm Done" - Roberto Luongo
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#12 Pears

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:24 PM

I fail to see how a 33 year old goalie with the confidence of a fat red headed school girl could fetch more. Luongo has proven nothing in the nhl except collapsing in the playoffs numerous times. I would love to hear what you think we can get for Luongo your majesty.

So you accuse me of having very little hockey knowledge, yet you come back and say 'Luongo has proven nothing in the NHL.' :lol: Nice way to contradict yourself. Please tell me how an elite goalie that has multiple Vezina nominations, put his team on his back most times in 2011, winning the starting job from one of the best goalies in the world and winning an Olympic Gold Medal in the process is 'unproven'
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#13 Baercheese

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:27 PM

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I think something like:

- Kadri, Bozak, 2nd
Or
- Kadri, Prospect, 2nd.

Maybe a bit less, maybe a bit more but something along those lines would be reasonable for both sides IMO.


You're not going to get Kadri, who the Leafs have been VERY patient with to get the best development, for 5 years of Luongo
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3499h5x.jpg
Johnny Gaudreau>any Casucks

Edler, Markstrom, Hansen, 2nd round pick 2014 to Islanders for Ryan Strome, 5th overall pick 2014

This is fairly even as well.

 


#14 Pears

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:31 PM

You're not going to get Kadri, who the Leafs have been VERY patient with to get the best development, for 5 years of Luongo

Kadri might not be a possibility but what about Luongo and Raymond for Biggs and Franson and/or a 2nd.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#15 Pineapples

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:31 PM

So you're saying we should trade Lu for a 3rd line centre, a 2nd round pick, a guy we'd buy out, and a downgrade in net? Yea no thanks.
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#16 Pineapples

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:35 PM

I fail to see how a 33 year old goalie with the confidence of a fat red headed school girl could fetch more. Luongo has proven nothing in the nhl except collapsing in the playoffs numerous times. I would love to hear what you think we can get for Luongo your majesty.


Oh really? Why would anyone take a trade proposal seriously from someone who hasn't watched the hockey in a decade? Because if you have watched hockey, you would know how wrong that statement is.
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#17 AriGold

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:48 PM

So you're saying we should trade Lu for a 3rd line centre, a 2nd round pick, a guy we'd buy out, and a downgrade in net? Yea no thanks.

Please let me see your proposal from the 2 or 3 likely teams he would go to ?
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#18 Caboose

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:54 PM

I like the deal from both sides, but from Toronto's standpoint I wouldn't hesitate to give up a decent prospect to push this through.
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#19 Caboose

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:55 PM

Kadri might not be a possibility but what about Luongo and Raymond for Biggs and Franson and/or a 2nd.


You really have no idea how much Franson sucks do you?
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#20 Pineapples

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:56 PM

Please let me see your proposal from the 2 or 3 likely teams he would go to ?


I don't make proposals. But anyone could see that TO would win this trade.

We won't trade him if we won't get equal value for him. Especially if there's a 48 game season.
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#21 AriGold

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 10:02 PM

I don't make proposals. But anyone could see that TO would win this trade.

We won't trade him if we won't get equal value for him. Especially if there's a 48 game season.

If we get more then that I will be surprised and pleased. I don't think Luongo holds as much value as other people think he does but that's all up for debate. We might find out as early as Jan 12th if he has been traded which is exciting in its own perspective.
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#22 elvis15

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 10:08 PM

The Plug is included in the deal as a buyout so he holds no value. Bozak had 2 points less then Kesler last season an about 34 less penalty minutes, the goalie is a backup that we can trade once Lack is ready to backup Schneider. And a TML 2nd round pick should be 35th-45th which is a damn good pick imo.

I now realize you have very little hockey knowledge.

You do realize that plug included as a buyout currently is contracted to the richest team in the NHL, don't you? They don't have any problems paying for the buyout themselves financially, or worrying about taking back cap for next season. Currently, they have 13 players contracted for next year at less than $40M. They have $20M left to spend on replacements, and they have 3 of their top 4 D, 4 of their top 6 forwards and both of their goalies signed for next year. Buying out Komisarek would give them an extra $4.5M beyond that, not that they need it.

And the rest of the return isn't ideal as he said, so I'd question your hockey knowledge for this deal.
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#23 AriGold

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 10:14 PM

So what's a reasonable trade for Luongo ? Nobody else has said anything ? If my deal doesn't work then what does ?

Didn't realise he was the 2nd coming of Patrick Roy and was gonna stop choking in the playoffs. So what should we ask for ? Kadri, Gardiner and a 1st ?
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#24 Pears

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 10:19 PM

So what's a reasonable trade for Luongo ? Nobody else has said anything ? If my deal doesn't work then what does ?

Didn't realise he was the 2nd coming of Patrick Roy and was gonna stop choking in the playoffs. So what should we ask for ? Kadri, Gardiner and a 1st ?

Toronto: One or two solid prospects (Biggs and/or Kadri) and a pick (1st or 2nd)
Florida: Upshall (salary coming back), Petrovic, 1st/2nd
Chicago: Nothing short of a top six forward and/or a top 4 D man (not named Toews or Keith)
Tampa: Purcell, a decent prospect and a pick wouldn't be that bad of a return

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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#25 Pineapples

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 10:24 PM

If we get more then that I will be surprised and pleased. I don't think Luongo holds as much value as other people think he does but that's all up for debate. We might find out as early as Jan 12th if he has been traded which is exciting in its own perspective.


His value doesn't go down that much just because there's only a couple of teams interested. Like I said, we're in no rush to trade him, and even if MG has a trade in place with TO, I'm sure it would benefit us more than your proposal does. Either a good prospect or some more impact players are needed to get MG to pull the trigger imo.
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#26 elvis15

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 10:44 PM

What's a reasonable deal? No one else has said anything? Try checking the myriad of proposal threads for Luongo, or the ongoing Luongo Discussion thread(s). People have been discussing it ad nauseum for the last half of 2012.
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#27 Gollumpus

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:20 PM

Working from the Gillis mantra of what he wants for Luongo:

1.) Impact player: I don't see the Leafs wanting to hand away any of their core players. It makes no sense for them to plug a big whole in goal only to leave themselves open in another area.

The Leafs have no impact player in goal, otherwise why would they trade for Luongo. Also, why would the Canucks want two years of Reimer when they have other options to serve as backup? In instances where I've suggested a goalie could be coming to the Canucks in this deal, the guy was also going to be a UFA at the end of the current season (eg. Theodore).

I don't see the Leafs being able to trade any of what will be their core defence, and anyone who might be available wouldn't be acceptable to Gillis due to cap hit, age, lack of talent, left vs right side, or any number of other factors (eg. Komisarek).

Franson could be used as a pot sweetner. He no longer wishes to be in Toronto if his situation stays the same, and it doesn't look like it will change. Some people have questions about his play, on the other hand some quite like him. He plays on the right side which is a point in his favor. If nothing else, even if he decides to jump ship once he gets to Vancouver, he could probably bring a 2nd round pick when another team signs him as a RFA.

Similar to the defence, the Leafs can't part with guys like Lupul, Kessel, Grabovski, van Reimsdyk etc or a significant part of their offence disappears.

Bozak might be nice, but I see his value being diminished as he will be a UFA at the end of the season and might well just leaf town... Also, concerning Bozak, Gillis might have a player, like Arnott, ready to sign as a UFA. If that is the case, why does Gillis need/want Bozak?

Kadri (assuming he's a roster player rather than a prospect) is apparently playing well enough that Burke could re-think him being in any deal

I'm thinking that Burke would like to keep his core and make the deal one for the future, and if he sweetens the pot enough, Gillis just might bite.


2.) Top prospect: from the forwards, my first pick would be Tyler Biggs. My second choice would be Carter Ashton. I think Biggs is going to be the better player, but Ashton has the extra two years and is closer to being NHL ready. Joe Colborne has some question marks about his play, but he could be a very good 2/3C.

I'm not that sold on the Leafs d-man prospects. There's some guys who might be pretty good (eg. Blacker), but on the whole, if I'm getting a prospect from the Leafs then it would be a forward.


3.) 1st round pick: I don't see Burke wanting to part with his 2013 1st as it is supposed to be a very deep draft.

A 2013 2nd could acceptable as this is supposed to be a deep draft, and if it was a high enough 2nd. Chances are the Leafs would do that much better with Luongo, so this 2nd would likely be somewhere in the lower middle (although the same thing was though about the picks that Boston got for Kessel...).

I think Burke might be willing to part with his 2014 1st. It would likely be a lower middle 1st rounder, but it would still bring a fairly decent prospect to the Canucks to help stock the cupboard.


To Toronto: Luongo, maybe a prospect (contract dump, necessary if option #2 is used)

To Vancouver: Biggs, Ashton, Colborne, 2014 1st OR Biggs, Ashton, Bozak, 2014 1st, Franson


regards,
G.
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#28 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 02:45 AM

You're not going to get Kadri, who the Leafs have been VERY patient with to get the best development, for 5 years of Luongo


I don't think so.

I think he is one of there most expendable assets for a big deal like this.

I look at his development the other way, I think he has been treated poorly rather than them being "patient" with him, he should have been in the NHL long ago, yet they have continued to treat him poorly IMO and have been criticized for it.

I think they would be realived to get around the media propaganda that has surrounded him there, and for his sake I also think he would be better served with a change and coming here where we are patient, and have shown we like to give top prospects as much opportunity as possible, it would be good for him. He could go on the stroll Hodgson went on with us last year, fill that spot (or the 2nd line spot) and people would finally move on from the Kassian deal.


If they actually don't want to move him desperately then I would take change the 2nd to a 1st and change Kadri to Bozak (If the season gets going)
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#29 Baercheese

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 03:24 AM

I don't think so.

I think he is one of there most expendable assets for a big deal like this.

I look at his development the other way, I think he has been treated poorly rather than them being "patient" with him, he should have been in the NHL long ago, yet they have continued to treat him poorly IMO and have been criticized for it.

I think they would be realived to get around the media propaganda that has surrounded him there, and for his sake I also think he would be better served with a change and coming here where we are patient, and have shown we like to give top prospects as much opportunity as possible, it would be good for him. He could go on the stroll Hodgson went on with us last year, fill that spot (or the 2nd line spot) and people would finally move on from the Kassian deal.


If they actually don't want to move him desperately then I would take change the 2nd to a 1st and change Kadri to Bozak (If the season gets going)

you lost me right there

but on topic, Kadri got 29 and 25 games in the NHL the last 2 years, so it's not like he wasn't getting games. And it those games he didn't produce like he should have, so sending him back to the minors to round out his game isn't "treated poorly". He's been putting up PPG while being asked to take on more defensive roles as well. Don't think that's hurting his development rather than rushed to the NHL
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3499h5x.jpg
Johnny Gaudreau>any Casucks

Edler, Markstrom, Hansen, 2nd round pick 2014 to Islanders for Ryan Strome, 5th overall pick 2014

This is fairly even as well.

 


#30 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 03:37 AM

you lost me right there

but on topic, Kadri got 29 and 25 games in the NHL the last 2 years, so it's not like he wasn't getting games. And it those games he didn't produce like he should have, so sending him back to the minors to round out his game isn't "treated poorly". He's been putting up PPG while being asked to take on more defensive roles as well. Don't think that's hurting his development rather than rushed to the NHL


I see how you can be confused by that, cause we are a great team with little room for Rookies but what I ment by that is we have shown in the past with Hodgson and Kassian (Top prospects) that we have been willing to give them shots in the big leagues.

For example with Coho, in 10/11 Gillis kept calling him up when he wasn't needed just to give him some experiance, he played on the 4th line for the most part so that just proves he wasn't needed, then the same thing happened in the playoffs, he wasn't really needed but MG wanted to keep him in and give him that experiance. Then Kassian could have easily been sent down, obviously not quite the same example but still. That's what I ment by that.

And Kadri has only gotten time when the injuries are so bad there is no one else left to call up, they have had players go 20 games without a goal and have been huge minus's yet they have still kept them playing over Kadri, for example last year they called up Kadri due to injuries after they had already called up 3 players. He came up and was one of the better players on the team, was producing well and better than some regulars, he was a + player too and they sent him down. He has been in the AHL putting up PPG #'s for 3 years, he is a career + player, IMO his defensive game is fine, they have treated him poorly.

It seems to me he is always the last player to get called up, then when he plays well they always have to find something to pick apart with him, like saying he isn't good enough defensively even though he is a +.


And if he came here and was given a shot on the 2nd line (Since he can play wing, is a playmaking player, has a great offensive skillset, can play fine defensively) I think it could be a fit, and if not then he is playing on the Wolves with Kassian and we wait for him to help us in the future.

And honestly, Luongo will help them more than Kadri can, and I think he (Lu) will be more important for the Leafs now then Kadri will be in the future, I don't see him living up to his full potential there, thats just my opinion.
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